The Dark One and The Plan [SoD spoilers.]

[Optimystik]

The latest strip has settled one doubt that remained in the back of my mind since the Goblins captured Azure City, but has raised a couple of others. Namely, we've just confirmed that the Dark One still wants the Plan to continue, despite it now being possible - if difficult, and gradual - to achieve goblin equality without it.

Redcloak has finally achieved what he wanted - a sovereign goblin nation, acknowledged by the other races - and the Dark One had a chance to communicate his appreciation for this to Redcloak. Instead, he chose to relay a vague and rather ominous threat. So the Plan - the original Plan - shall continue, unchanged.

My question is, why? Why stir up trouble with the Snarl when his people now have what he supposedly died fighting for? If Redcloak pulls it off, and he's able to hold the other gods hostage now, what will he demand? Another city? All their cities? Does he really want goblin equality, or goblin supremacy?

What is he really after? Can we trust the Crayon story in SoD? Was Right-Eye... right about him after all? Does he even care that Xykon might snuff out their settlement on a whim?

[Pepz]

It might be that he wants to be recognized as equal even by the gods.

Right now the nation of Gobbotopia is recognized by most of the world, and treated equally by I think all of the nations doing the recognizing. But it doesn't mean the gobbos are completely equal.

Picture a regular DnD setting. Dwarves are mining, elves are frolicking, humans are procreating. Suddenly disaster strikes. the nations are attacked and lose all their cities. The races are forced to retreat. Even when these races are down and out and have nowhere to go....they're still considered PC races. The goblins still aren't. If the gobbos lose Gobbotopia, they go back to being chunks of xp, farming the (bad) dirt.

I think the reason the Dark One wants to continue is because he still wants to hold the gods hostage to force them to consider the gobs a player race too.

[Zxo]

I think The Dark One resents the gods for what they created goblins for, and for how they initially treated him. Also, the main problem is that in OoTSverse, killing a goblin (even a child) is free, with no alignment consequences and probably no punishment in afterlife and this is the inequality that the Dark One wants to have addressed. Having a proper nation doesn't help here.

[Conuly]

Maybe he wants the threat of the Snarl as his back-up. Always good to have more than one plan. If one fails, you still have another.

[RMS Oceanic]

At best, the Dark One wants the Snarl as a form of insurance. Point this superweapon at the Elven Gods, for instance, and they may implore Team Peregrine to back off and leave Gobbotopia alone.

I doubt it's the best case scenario though. If you recall Right-Eye's cynical views on the Dark One, he suspects he's being petty and spiteful, and given his message from Jirix, I'm more inclined to suspect it's that. He possibly wants revenge. Revenge for being suckerpunched at those negotiations, revenge against the gods for all the humiliation and suffering goblinoids have suffered. Remember we have the Classical Greek model of Divinity: They're just as fallible as mortals, but they have tremendous power to ensure their whims are carried out. It could be that even the Dark One is blinded by anger and hatred to the potential of the Path of Right-Eye.

[Deliverance]

The latest strip has settled one doubt that remained in the back of my mind since the Goblins captured Azure City, but has raised a couple of others. Namely, we've just confirmed that the Dark One still wants the Plan to continue, despite it now being possible - if difficult, and gradual - to achieve goblin equality without it.

Strictly speaking, "no we haven't".

We've had Jirix tell a tall tale about his visit to the afterlife and we can either trust he is telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - or be sceptical of it. After all, it wouldn't be the first time a political leader took the word of god in his own mouth and used it to support his own policies and reinforce his leadership position.



What is he really after? Can we trust the Crayon story in SoD? Was Right-Eye... right about him after all? Does he even care that Xykon might snuff out their settlement on a whim?
It amuses me that you seem perfectly willing to disbelieve the Crayon story in SoD - but don't appear to have any doubt about Jirix' story. :)


Of course Jirix' tale could be the exact truth, but there is no evidence either for or against this being the case at this point in time - all we have is his word that what he told is what happened.

[factotum]

The Dark One is evil. Everything we know about him comes from sources which are unlikely to be unbiased...in fact, most of it comes from Redcloak, who was in turn told it by the Dark One via his cloak. Therefore, I'd say it's almost a racing certainty that the Plan is not what we've been told it is!

[RMS Oceanic]

The Dark One is evil. Everything we know about him comes from sources which are unlikely to be unbiased...in fact, most of it comes from Redcloak, who was in turn told it by the Dark One via his cloak. Therefore, I'd say it's almost a racing certainty that the Plan is not what we've been told it is!

No, I'm pretty sure the plan is as sold: Control the Snarl and threaten the other Gods with it, probably kill off a few to show he's not kidding around. It may be for what we may think is a noble goal, Goblinoid Equality, but it's still an evil way of doing it.

Whether Blackwing's peek inside the rift means the plan is no longer, or never was, possible is another story.

[Ancalagon]

The Dark One has all reason not to trust "the others". Be they other nations or other gods.
The first did backstab him and the others wanted to kill him. Even those that protected him back then are, well, evil.

So, the Dark One can choose between two things:
"A strong, yet still developing goblin nation and abandoning the Plan that has run for a long time - and also risk that someone else controls the snarl in a few or a hundred years."
or
"A strong, yet still developing goblin nation and have a god-killer as insurance."

It's no real surprise he goes for the second.

Apart from this, there is an alternate/additional interpretation to "Don't screw this up": The obvious one is "don't screw up the plan by failing", the other would be "don't get more gates destroyed and thus risk the unmaking of everything".

[Morthis]

I find the fact that the Dark One threatened RC pretty interesting. RC has made it his life's pursuit to accomplish this plan, he's now formed a goblin nation, and he's still trying to complete the plan as well. Given the amount of dedication from RC, you'd think the Dark One would be happy just to have such a strong follower. I realize he's still an evil god and all, but in SoD he was shown as being a fair person as well. Any fair person would have to agree that if RC died right now, he does not deserve punishment in the afterlife for it. Otherwise, why waste your entire life attempting to fulfill your deity's wishes.

[RMS Oceanic]

The Dark One has all reason not to trust "the others". Be they other nations or other gods.
The first did backstab him and the others wanted to kill him. Even those that protected him back then are, well, evil.

So, the Dark One can choose between two things:
"A strong, yet still developing goblin nation and abandoning the Plan that has run for a long time - and also risk that someone else controls the snarl in a few or a hundred years."
or
"A strong, yet still developing goblin nation and have a god-killer as insurance."

It's no real surprise he goes for the second.

Apart from this, there is an alternate/additional interpretation to "Don't screw this up": The obvious one is "don't screw up the plan by failing", the other would be "don't get more gates destroyed and thus risk the unmaking of everything".

If you recall SoD, that was the ultimate backup plan: If the current world was destroyed, all surviving Gods would have to be in complete agreement when rebuilding it, and this would include the Dark One: All he has to do is kick up a fuss to either strengthen the current Snarl, or create a new one. Since the Gods need complete agreement for this to work, they'd have to acquiese to his demands in recreating Goblins to be on par with Dwarves and Elves.

[Ancalagon]

I think the "backup plan" was always just that.

It's a quite bad backup plan as well. Everything is unmade, the gods have no guarantee they will survive a new snarl-attack (maybe they just got lucky last time?), all the work done is wasted, they KNOW that making a snarl-proof-prison is a pretty hard thing to do, they (even the Dark One, especially now that he DOES have a goblin nation) have too much to loose in it.

If he has to choose between
1. "The plan works"
2. "The plan does not work, but the world is not unmade and the goblins can build their nation"
3. "Everything is unmade, we have to re-trap the snarl and we have to rebuild everything"
he'll probably pick 1. over 2. over 3.

[Morthis]

In what way does "Don't screw this up" convey the message "Make sure you don't release the snarl"? If anything, saying "don't screw this up" creates the risk that RC would be more reckless than normal attempting to accomplish the plan in order to avoid failing his deity.

[Ancalagon]

Releasing the snarl in stead of succeeding the plan would be a quite big screwup, no?
And three of five gates are already destroyed.

[Kairamek]

What if it wasn't a threat? It's not unheard of for people to say "Don't Screw This Up" as a word of encouragement when they very desperatly want "This" to succeed. Heaven knows I've done it. That was the reaction given to Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart when people heard they were making the first X-Men movie. I mean Patrick Freakin Stewart was told "Don't Screw This Up." The man is made of Win, he can't fail when comes to acting, and yet...

[Morthis]

Releasing the snarl in stead of succeeding the plan would be a quite big screwup, no?
And three of five gates are already destroyed.

Considering RC knows the backup plan and when he discusses it with Right-Eye, he seems to consider it a pretty viable outcome, I think he would see it as a screw up, but not a major one. If you want to convey the message of "Keep at it, but make sure you don't accidentally release the snarl", why not say exactly that?

Edit:


What if it wasn't a threat? It's not unheard of for people to say "Don't Screw This Up" as a word of encouragement when they very desperatly want "This" to succeed. Heaven knows I've done it. That was the reaction given to Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart when people heard they were making the first X-Men movie. I mean Patrick Freakin Stewart was told "Don't Screw This Up." The man is made of Win, he can't fail when comes to acting, and yet...

In general "don't screw this up" isn't the greatest way to encourage someone. It implies a likely possibility that you will screw it up, which isn't exactly a confidence booster.

[Ancalagon]

Considering RC knows the backup plan and when he discusses it with Right-Eye, he seems to consider it a pretty viable outcome, I think he would see it as a screw up, but not a major one. If you want to convey the message of "Keep at it, but make sure you don't accidentally release the snarl", why not say exactly that?

Well, Redcloak is not the MOST reliable person when it's about pondering what is a good idea in regard to the plan and what not. Redcloak might THINK it's a viable option but that does not change the fact it'd be a very, very bad outcome.
That the Dark One might get what he wants in the end does not change the fact it'd be basically one of worse worst-case-scenarios.


In general "don't screw this up" isn't the greatest way to encourage someone. It implies a likely possibility that you will screw it up, which isn't exactly a confidence booster.

Yes. You are correct. But it's an evil god after all. And so far, Redcloak has not shown a lucky hand in dealing with the gates. The Dark One is probably concerned and also a bit impatient. And he's also evil. And there are more than one way to "motivate" people. No matter if it's a good or bad way, it's the one the Dark One chose.

[Morty]

I think that the two most plausible options is that the Dark One is spiteful and that he doesn't belive Gobbotopia will last or be satisfactory without threatening the gods. Most likely, it's both - the Dark One probably belives that PC races and their gods can't be dealt with unless you're backed by superior force. As for "don't screw it up" - perhaps he's simply dissatisifed that the Plan is taking so long to accomplish - Redcloak isn't the first Bearer of the Crimson Mantle.

[hamishspence]

That, and the gate Redcloak is now going after, is the fourth he's tried for so far.

[Ancalagon]

That, and the gate Redcloak is now going after, is the fourth he's tried for so far.

And all the other factors. I bet that the Dark One is very, very aware Xykon is a capable but also very dangerous ally. And I can imagine quite a few ways the Dark One could imagine how Redcloak could screw up his relationship with Xykon (which would be very unhealthy for Redcloak).

[pendell]

Does anyone remember the final panel of 'Don't Split the Party', when V twigged to the fact that maybe, just maybe, they should know more about the task they've been given? Like, for example, why is there a world inside the Snarl?

I believe :

1) That Jirix is telling the truth.
2) That the Dark One's ideal for goblins is NOT goblin equality, but something more, both for himself and for goblins generally. And in a pinch, I suspect 'goblins generally' can go by the wayside.

We have repeated evidence, including Redcloak's testimony, that the Dark One's alignment is some shade of evil. I suspect he intends to use the threat of the superweapon to extract as many concessions from the other gods as possible. Then again, there's another possibility even darker...


It is possible that he intends to annihilate all the other gods using the Snarl, and rule the world unchallenged as the only god.


I also think

3) That we are still missing critical pieces of the puzzle WRT the Dark One, the other gods, and the Snarl based on V and Blackwing's conversation. When these pieces are filled in, our understanding of what's going on may change radically.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Felyndiira]

It should be noted that if goblin equality is what he truly strove for, Red-Eye would probably have been his new crimson mantle bearer instead of, well, dead. The fact that he was willing to let Redcloak continue his plan at the expense of the only goblin-human equality at the time shows that a single goblin settlement that is on good standing with the human nations is probably not adequate for his purposes.

My thoughts are that either he's ultimately selfish and desires personal power, using Goblins more as a political pawn than a race of people he actually cares about (kinda like Lolth and the drow), or that his ultimate goal is truly for some sort of Goblin supremacy. I'd be more willing to place bets on the former, however; none of the Gods - including the good ones like Thor - have yet shown much of a personal concern with their followers beyond the basic protection package.

[Optimystik]

Picture a regular DnD setting. Dwarves are mining, elves are frolicking, humans are procreating. Suddenly disaster strikes. the nations are attacked and lose all their cities. The races are forced to retreat. Even when these races are down and out and have nowhere to go....they're still considered PC races. The goblins still aren't. If the gobbos lose Gobbotopia, they go back to being chunks of xp, farming the (bad) dirt.

I think the reason the Dark One wants to continue is because he still wants to hold the gods hostage to force them to consider the gobs a player race too.

The thing is, there are no "players" in OotS.

What I take you to mean, is that the plan may result in more Goblin adventurers. But with their own city, they'll be getting those anyway - lots of taverns.


It amuses me that you seem perfectly willing to disbelieve the Crayon story in SoD - but don't appear to have any doubt about Jirix' story. :)

The Giant had a perfect chance to give us reason to doubt Jirix's story - when Redcloak asked him "hey, did this really happen?" His affirmation tells me that what he narrated really is how he remembers it. Those memories could have been implanted or something, but I don't think so.

In addition, why would he lie about the Plan? Does Jirix even know that there is a Plan, never mind the details of it?

[hamishspence]

Remember that (at least according to Xykon) Right Eye had no chance of winning.

At what point could The Dark One have stepped in? At the moment Redcloak was about to shoot Right Eye? At the moment Xykon turned up to demand Right Eye and his village all join him or die?

While Right Eye claims that if The Dark One didn't approve, he'd have stopped Redcloak from serving Xykon, this is a similar rationale to the one for the Order of the Stick's deserving to be convicted:

"If the gods didn't approve, wouldn't they have revoked the powers of the arresting officer?"

[Felyndiira]

I'm going off of what I could remember in SoD from reading it in a comic store, so please correct me if my facts are off (my copy is still reserved at Amazon)

Nonetheless, none of the Gods in OotS so far has shown much interest in intervening to protect their followers, apart from granting spells and perhaps smiting a divine enemy or two. While Thor's attitude toward a singluar cleric might be understandable, when Xykon attacked Azure City, the twelve zodiacs didn't even lift a finger to grant divine providence for their followers.

Similar factoids can be applied to the Right Eye case - suppose that the Dark One truly had only the goblin's welfare and equality in mind, it would make sense for him to protect the village in any way that he can given that it's, at the time, the only one in the world that conforms to this ideal. To willfully sacrifice the only village that holds true to his ideals - and possibly not even out of necessity - for something greater shows that the Dark One is out for an all-or-nothing victory of some sort, and that he cares little for minute details like goblins achieving peace.

I don't know the exact powers and stats of OotS gods, but I'd imagine that they'd at least have some degree of power available over epic characters (otherwise, an Epic Wizard would just waltz in and take over the universe). Therefore, it can't be that difficult for the dark one to hide One-Eye somewhere, to repel Xykon, or perhaps even say screw it and use proxies to shift the Crimson Mantle to Right Eye. Despite what Xykon says, Right Eye is not foolish, and if Roy could teach us anything, diplomacy does work in the OotS world.

His apathy suggests that he's somewhat similar to the other gods in OotS - a bit apathetic, and really cares little about his followers aside from granting cleric spells (he doesn't even grant miracles as Thor does, if I recall correctly). Therefore, I can imagine that he would have some sort of goal above simply a co-existing goblin state, permeable or not. The rest, of course, is even more conjecture.

[hamishspence]

Interestingly, in Don't Split The Party, Redcloak's plan to create a goblin state is described as being "over and above" The Plan,

which involves blackmailing the gods to improve the state of goblinoids.

[Kish]

The thing is, there are no "players" in OotS.

But there are PCs, and PC races.

I think what Pepz is getting at, in terms of goblinoids being reclassified as PC races, is more along the lines of: Rebalancing (goblins get better racial features, hobgoblins lose their level adjustment or get better racial features or both, etc.), and the other PC races being instructed to view goblinoids as "fellow adventurers" to form groups with rather than "monsters" to kill for XP.

[Optimystik]

Remember that (at least according to Xykon) Right Eye had no chance of winning.

At what point could The Dark One have stepped in? At the moment Redcloak was about to shoot Right Eye? At the moment Xykon turned up to demand Right Eye and his village all join him or die?

While Right Eye claims that if The Dark One didn't approve, he'd have stopped Redcloak from serving Xykon, this is a similar rationale to the one for the Order of the Stick's deserving to be convicted:

"If the gods didn't approve, wouldn't they have revoked the powers of the arresting officer?"

Direct intervention is one thing, but getting a chance to deliver a message to your prophet without breaking any of the rules is another. I just find it deeply suspicious that the one thing the Dark One had to say to Redcloak is "stay the course." Not even "good job, but continue with the Plan anyway just in case." To me, it seems as though the DO doesn't consider anything to have been accomplished at all.

Which says to me that a goblin nation is not his goal.


But there are PCs, and PC races.

I think what Pepz is getting at, in terms of goblinoids being reclassified as PC races, is more along the lines of: Rebalancing (goblins get better racial features, hobgoblins lose their level adjustment or get better racial features or both, etc.), and the other PC races being instructed to view goblinoids as "fellow adventurers" to form groups with rather than "monsters" to kill for XP.

I got that. But I don't see how they can't achieve that "rebalancing" just by having a city (with its own taverns, mind) and trade relations, rather than needing to hold the other gods hostage to do so.

The racial penalties are not that big a deal - the half-orcs get along just fine, as do the other races with minuses - and plenty of goblinoids are capitalizing on their "weakness" by becoming Ninjas anyway.

[B. Dandelion]

My thinking is that he, like Redcloak, is basically a hypocrite. He does want what he says he wants, and I actually haven't (yet?) gotten the vibe from him that he's truly after goblin SUPERIORITY over simple equality (YMMV, obviously). It's just that he's been giving it lower priority over his own PERSONAL desire for revenge. He's pissed about what happened to him in life, and if his story is at least somewhat true he's not without justification in that. What makes him a douche is that he's completely unwilling to let go of his plans to "get his own back" against the gods, even if it's not necessary or even jeopardizes genuine gains made toward goblin equality. It's all about HIM, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsAllAboutMe) and thus his actions fall short of his rhetoric even though the motive going into it isn't without basis in reality.

[SoC175]

Right now the nation of Gobbotopia is recognized by most of the world.
Well, I would say that a mere 17 nations are significantly less than "most" of the world (even our own world has ~180 nations)

[Zxo]

His apathy suggests that he's somewhat similar to the other gods in OotS - a bit apathetic, and really cares little about his followers aside from granting cleric spells (he doesn't even grant miracles as Thor does, if I recall correctly).

The gods have their own laws and limits when it comes to intervening directly. Remember how Thor wanted to help Durkon, but was stopped by one of the Twelve Gods? Each of the gods is allowed to intervene directly into the lives of the mortals only in their lands (we know this from SoD crayons). We do not know if The Dark One has dominion over any lands at all, since he was late to the party and the gods have divided the world between pantheons long before he ascended to godhood. So it is very possible, that he simply can't do anything except for granting spells to his clerics and communicating with them from time to time.

[The Wanderer]

The latest strip has settled one doubt that remained in the back of my mind since the Goblins captured Azure City, but has raised a couple of others. Namely, we've just confirmed that the Dark One still wants the Plan to continue, despite it now being possible - if difficult, and gradual - to achieve goblin equality without it.

Redcloak has finally achieved what he wanted - a sovereign goblin nation, acknowledged by the other races - and the Dark One had a chance to communicate his appreciation for this to Redcloak. Instead, he chose to relay a vague and rather ominous threat. So the Plan - the original Plan - shall continue, unchanged.

My question is, why? Why stir up trouble with the Snarl when his people now have what he supposedly died fighting for? If Redcloak pulls it off, and he's able to hold the other gods hostage now, what will he demand? Another city? All their cities? Does he really want goblin equality, or goblin supremacy?

What is he really after? Can we trust the Crayon story in SoD? Was Right-Eye... right about him after all? Does he even care that Xykon might snuff out their settlement on a whim?

Even though I'm rather partial to the goblins and their lot in life, (and hope that somehow by the end of the story a peaceful agreement will be reached between them and the other races) I have always had huge doubts about The Dark One and been inclined to agree with Right-Eye's view of him from the end of SOD.

First off, the crayon story from SOD definitely has the scent of whitewashed history, made to be acceptable to other goblins. Second, even if everything about The Dark One prior to his death and how he died in the crayons of SOD were true, think for a second about how The Dark One became a god: because of the rampant bloodshed and slaughter his followers caused in revenge for his death. Being resurrected from death by the amount of anger and revenge needed for your follows to go out and kill a million or so people in response, (and with darker things possibility contributing to it too, like the blood or life-energy of those people) could change what had previously been a pretty decent guy into a petty, hate-filled, vengeance obsessed god. The sort who might be looking for supremacy rather than equality or might have a scheme like the one Pendell mentioned in his post's spoiler box in mind.

That either the crayon story from SOD was at least partially a whitewash or that The Dark One's nature would turn out to be more malevolent than we would have thought from SOD are things I've been expecting to be confirmed for awhile now. I'm slightly surprised by what Jirix said about the "No pressure though" bit, because I didn't even expect that much from The Dark One.


At best, the Dark One wants the Snarl as a form of insurance. Point this superweapon at the Elven Gods, for instance, and they may implore Team Peregrine to back off and leave Gobbotopia alone.

Technically, if you really wanted to stretch for it, you could argue that The Dark One still sees the plan as necessary.

Despite recognition by other world nations, I doubt that a lot has changed in regard to the behavior of mortals or gods just yet. For example, an adventurer from Cliffport probably wouldn't react exactly the same way if he passes a goblin while traveling on a road as he would if he was walking past an elf or human. Gods haven't told their followers to stop killing goblins for fun. A paladin's detect evil will still automatically see a goblin as evil, rather than judging them like it would a PC race.

So, The Dark One and Redcloak could both rationalize continuing with the plan by saying that the Goblin Nation could be dangerously temporary, and goblinkind right back to square one should anything happen to their new nation. So, until all of that changes, goblins aren't truly equal and can be pushed back down anytime. Therefore, why bet everything on it surviving?

As stated above though, I think The Dark One's mind is less idealistic and more vengeance filled than that.

[hamishspence]

Even based on Redcloak's portrayal of him, it is implied that he resents being killed, and remembers it, and it will be the first thing he refers to, if he wins:

"Let's try that again. Only this time, I'M the one with the secret assassin"

I see him and Redcloak as having, at best, Ozymandias morality- a belief that for the good of the many, it is justified to sacrifice the few.

[Snake-Aes]

It's really simple in the end...
Goblins were created solely to be low level xp fodder for the gods' clerics
There is a reality-killing abomination locked in the world that MIGHT be tapped.
God of goblins want goblins to not be deifically assigned to the trash lives of existing solely do die in the hands of adventurers.

He can then blackmail the gods into changing that. If the snarl happens to unmake creation, and he survives, the new world will have fair state for goblins since the absolute agreement is necessary to craft a snarl-safe world.
The worst-case is having the dark one killed by the snarl or the gods, in which case the situation for goblins remains absolutely unchanged. He's got absolutely nothing to lose.

Not even Gobbotopia. As much as he likes it, and mortals recognize it, the gods themselves still look at them and call them "XP fodder".

[Optimystik]

Well, I would say that a mere 17 nations are significantly less than "most" of the world (even our own world has ~180 nations)

True, but they only really need their immediate neighbors on board. The desert kingdoms won't care, and even if they did, they'd have to step on the toes of the other nations to bring the fight to GT.


The Dark One has all reason not to trust "the others". Be they other nations or other gods.
The first did backstab him and the others wanted to kill him. Even those that protected him back then are, well, evil.

So, the Dark One can choose between two things:
"A strong, yet still developing goblin nation and abandoning the Plan that has run for a long time - and also risk that someone else controls the snarl in a few or a hundred years."
or
"A strong, yet still developing goblin nation and have a god-killer as insurance."

It's no real surprise he goes for the second.

Yet that same god-killer is poised above his fledgling nation. Is messing with it further the right answer? Furthermore, once he acquires his superweapon there'll be no point to any diplomacy by the Goblins. The other nations will fall in line, not because Goblins are any more trustworthy or acceptable to them, but out of fear.

How delightfully Machiavellian.


Apart from this, there is an alternate/additional interpretation to "Don't screw this up": The obvious one is "don't screw up the plan by failing", the other would be "don't get more gates destroyed and thus risk the unmaking of everything".

It seems to me that the easiest way to accomplish both interpretations is to leave them alone.

[Snake-Aes]

It seems to me that the easiest way to accomplish both interpretations is to leave them alone.

It's not because Gobbotopia doesn't mean crap to the other gods, and the reasons goblins are xp fodder is literally because the gods said so. Until the gods themselves are convinced...there won't be much.

[Optimystik]

It's not because Gobbotopia doesn't mean crap to the other gods, and the reasons goblins are xp fodder is literally because the gods said so. Until the gods themselves are convinced...there won't be much.

By "them" I meant the Gates, as we can be reasonably sure that the Snarl doesn't care about anybody either.

If the Snarl still exists, what they are doing is highly dangerous for Gobbotopia. Before, the goblins had nothing to lose - now, they do.

If it no longer exists, the Plan - and Redcloak - have already failed anyway.

Either way, messing with the Gates is too much risk for the reward.

[Snake-Aes]

By "them" I meant the Gates, as we can be reasonably sure that the Snarl doesn't care about anybody either.

If the Snarl still exists, what they are doing is highly dangerous for Gobbotopia. Before, the goblins had nothing to lose - now, they do.

If it no longer exists, the Plan - and Redcloak - have already failed anyway.

Either way, messing with the Gates is too much risk for the reward.

The CURRENT goblins have a nation to lose. On the grand scheme of the universe, they are still fodder, Gobbotopia or not. There's not a single indication that the deities changed their minds about goblins. They sure didn't when the Dark One gathered his continent-wide army.