Durkon - The baby of the team?

[blueblade]

Am sure in the history of the forum this has been discussed many times, but it seems to me that Durkon (being a mere 39) is the only one who would not be considered to have reached adulthood (based on http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age). Moreover, he would be far too young to have left the homelands as a full trained dwarf. And furthermore (whee!), his status as the old advisor seems ill fitting, even accounting for his high wisdom.

And yes, it is perfectly possible that Rich simply does not follow those rules, or apply them in the universe. But has this ever been stated, or Durkon's age addressed in some way?

[Felyndiira]

Adulthood isn't always a sign of mental maturity or wisdom pinnacle, however. The fact that he's older than most of the party (save V) probably accounts for much of his wisdom, and not the "magical age" where a certain race is considered to be of adequate maturity to bear adult responsibilities, since even a teenager can theoretically be wise if circumstances forced them to mature at a younger age.

Durkon being a priest - someone who's bred to be a leader of sorts - doesn't hurt his wisdom either, nor does his naturally high WIS score from being a cleric.

[Nimrod's Son]

Rich made a mistake with Durkon's age at first but it was retconned later. As of the beginning of War & XPs, Durkon is 54.

[Zeta Kai]

Rich made a mistake with Durkon's age at first but it was retconned later. As of the beginning of War & XPs, Durkon is 54.

Source please.

[Ancalagon]

Cast-Text of War & XPs states he's 54.

[Nimrod's Son]

Source please.
Uh... the beginning of War & XPs, like I said. :smalltongue:

Rich clarified the situation in a forum post, but that was years ago; I'm not going looking for it.

[factotum]

Just thinking about it should show that the 39 age is impossible--Durkon was exiled from his homeland something like 20 years ago, and at age 19 a dwarf would still be a child and therefore not likely to be thrown out of house and home!

[Draconi Redfir]

Just thinking about it should show that the 39 age is impossible--Durkon was exiled from his homeland something like 20 years ago, and at age 19 a dwarf would still be a child and therefore not likely to be thrown out of house and home!



well at 19 a bugbear would have been a full grown adult for six years. its possible dwarfs mature faster then humans.

[Besyanteo]

Either way, it seems pretty irrelevant when you consider that The Giant doesn't follow the default race rules precisely. The best example I can think of for this is Goblins: In the SRD and the MM1 they're listed as being small size class: Strictly speaking, Redcloak should be eye to eye with Belkar. Personally, I like them better as they are in the comic.

If there's an inconsistency between what you see and what's in the rulebook, I tend to assume that a change was made somewhere. That might not actually be the case here (See Nimrod's Son's post), but as a loose general rule I find that it helps me care less about technicalities and more about the comic and the unique setting it is in.

[blueblade]

Thanks all, sounds like it was corrected.

And Besyanteo, I totally agree and I don't let the nitty gritty get in the way of my enjoyment of the comic. This just struck me as sufficiently off that it made me wonder if Durkon's youth was a facet of the character I was missing.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

its possible dwarfs mature faster then humans.
If that were the case, then they would most likely have a younger Starting Age.

[drengnikrafe]

If that were the case, then they would most likely have a younger Starting Age.

Objection. Elves have starting ages over 100. They mature at the same rate as humans (according to Race of the Wild), but simply do not have the drive to adventure for the 80 years in between.

On the other hand, Vaarsuvius' joke about "(some number) of years in diapers" suggests that Rich does not always follow what the rule books say in regards to rate of aging for various races. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to say Durkon, and the rest of the dwarves, age at the speed of plot. If it's not important, it won't come up. If it is important, he will reveal what he has ruled on the subject.

[Dr.Epic]

...that Durkon (being a mere 39)...

This is mentioned where?

[Morquard]

Objection. Elves have starting ages over 100. They mature at the same rate as humans (according to Race of the Wild), but simply do not have the drive to adventure for the 80 years in between.

On the other hand, Vaarsuvius' joke about "(some number) of years in diapers" suggests that Rich does not always follow what the rule books say in regards to rate of aging for various races. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to say Durkon, and the rest of the dwarves, age at the speed of plot. If it's not important, it won't come up. If it is important, he will reveal what he has ruled on the subject.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html mentions that V's kids are both 26, therefor older than most of the OOTS members but they look and behave like 5 year olds.
So I'd say Elves age at a different rate than humans.

However what does the elves age have to do with dwarves?

[drengnikrafe]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html mentions that V's kids are both 26, therefor older than most of the OOTS members but they look and behave like 5 year olds.
So I'd say Elves age at a different rate than humans.

However what does the elves age have to do with dwarves?

If he's ignoring some age classifications (Namely that elves are physically mature by 25), there's no reason for him to maintain others. Every DM has his houserules. Age is an incredibly easy one to do that for, since it has little direct bearing on gameplay.

[Optimystik]

If he's ignoring some age classifications (Namely that elves are physically mature by 25), there's no reason for him to maintain others. Every DM has his houserules. Age is an incredibly easy one to do that for, since it has little direct bearing on gameplay.

There's no reason for him not to maintain others either. It's possible to selectively place elves on an abnormal maturation scale in his setting for the sake of a joke, then not do the same for dwarves.

[Zeitgeist]

There's no reason for him not to maintain others either. It's possible to selectively place elves on an abnormal maturation scale in his setting for the sake of a joke, then not do the same for dwarves.

Of course it's possible. Saying something is possible isn't a very compelling argument when talking about somebody's writing. He can, technically, break any rule he wants, including Belkar sprouting wings and flying around throwing pixie dust on people. But that's not Rich's style, and likewise, Rich is for the most part pretty consistent with the mechanics of the game.

So yes, there IS reason for him to not maintain others: the manner in which the author has shown to write.

It's not likely that he'd not follow rules on elven age but dwarven age; even for the sake of a joke, V's kids are a significant part of V's life, and it would be bad writing to break rules for a joke on something that significant. They aren't exactly Hobgoblin #324 or something.

[blueblade]

This is mentioned where?

Dungeon of Dorukan card game (according to the wiki). And yes, it is canon (unless of course superseded by new information of course).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Objection. Elves have starting ages over 100. They mature at the same rate as humans (according to Race of the Wild), but simply do not have the drive to adventure for the 80 years in between.
Dwarves are not elves. Dwarven culture is generally far more practical than elven culture and would not tolerate waiting for some “drive” before getting things done. “Bein’ a dwarf is about doin’ yer duty, even if it makes ye miserable. Especially if it makes ye miserable.”
That is non-core material that may or may not be supported by any gaming group—let alone a webcomic.
That material has been explicitly rejected in this webcomic. [url=http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html]26-year-old kindergartners, anyone? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html)

[Optimystik]

Of course it's possible. Saying something is possible isn't a very compelling argument when talking about somebody's writing. He can, technically, break any rule he wants, including Belkar sprouting wings and flying around throwing pixie dust on people. But that's not Rich's style, and likewise, Rich is for the most part pretty consistent with the mechanics of the game.

By the "mechanics of the game," as you put it, Durkon is well past adventuring age (see War & XPs.) Keeping true to that would be upholding the rules, not breaking them.


So yes, there IS reason for him to not maintain others: the manner in which the author has shown to write.

It's not likely that he'd not follow rules on elven age but dwarven age; even for the sake of a joke, V's kids are a significant part of V's life, and it would be bad writing to break rules for a joke on something that significant. They aren't exactly Hobgoblin #324 or something.

You are still using elven culture as an example of how dwarven culture should be treated. They are apples and volkswagens.

What you're arguing is that if he messed with the elves, he should do so for the dwarves too. But dwarven age isn't ubiquitous enough for humor. Everyone knows elves live for a long time; dwarven culture and physiology are more obscure to the layman, therefore there is less fuel for parody. Thus, he has a very good reason to be selective in his treatment of the races.

[factotum]

By the "mechanics of the game," as you put it, Durkon is well past adventuring age (see War & XPs.) Keeping true to that would be upholding the rules, not breaking them.


Eh? How come 54 is "well past adventuring age" in a species that lives for hundreds of years? I wouldn't say it's out of the question for a short-lived species like humans to still be adventuring at that age!

[Sanguine]

Eh? How come 54 is "well past adventuring age" in a species that lives for hundreds of years? I wouldn't say it's out of the question for a short-lived species like humans to still be adventuring at that age!

There's an implied minimum in there meaning he is easily old enough to be adventuring. At least that's how I interpreted it.

[Optimystik]

Eh? How come 54 is "well past adventuring age" in a species that lives for hundreds of years? I wouldn't say it's out of the question for a short-lived species like humans to still be adventuring at that age!

Well past minimum, which is 40.

[Zeitgeist]

By the "mechanics of the game," as you put it, Durkon is well past adventuring age (see War & XPs.) Keeping true to that would be upholding the rules, not breaking them.

Well, yes, I was arguing that if his age being 39 was true (though it's not), then Rich would be uncharacteristically inconsistent with what he's known to do. But the change he made shows he IS being consistent.

And I don't think the kids being 26 and immature was a joke at all. It was strictly consistent with the way races are supposed to develop with age, or so I'm told from the more proficient D&D players. Many readers of the comic would expect his 26 year old kids to behave like that, so it's not really joke material.

[Lawless III]

Objection. Elves have starting ages over 100. They mature at the same rate as humans (according to Race of the Wild), but simply do not have the drive to adventure for the 80 years in between.

On the other hand, Vaarsuvius' joke about "(some number) of years in diapers" suggests that Rich does not always follow what the rule books say in regards to rate of aging for various races. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to say Durkon, and the rest of the dwarves, age at the speed of plot. If it's not important, it won't come up. If it is important, he will reveal what he has ruled on the subject.

This post seems to be the stem of the current argument, but it's not really applicable to an OotS discussion. The SRD lists starting ages as when the race reaches adulthood (cited because someone will ask for it http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age ). There's no reason to the best of my knowledge to believe Rich is using the alternative race-maturity in Races of the Wild. Not all splat books necessarily apply. The SRD is only followed as far as Rich wants to, but it's generally a solid guideline.

In short, SRD > splatbooks (when discussing OotS). Argument is moot.

[Optimystik]

This post seems to be the stem of the current argument, but it's not really applicable to an OotS discussion. The SRD lists starting ages as when the race reaches adulthood (cited because someone will ask for it http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age ). There's no reason to the best of my knowledge to believe Rich is using the alternative race-maturity in Races of the Wild. Not all splat books necessarily apply. The SRD is only followed as far as Rich wants to, but it's generally a solid guideline.

In short, SRD > splatbooks (when discussing OotS). Argument is moot.

Your argument is moot, because Races of the Wild is not an "alternative." It specifically states that the PHB (SRD) interpretation is not wrong, it merely expands upon it. You can clarify a point without negating it completely, you know.

[spectralphoenix]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure it was added specifically because of the "twenty years in diapers" problem, the book was published after V's backstory was created, and the idea that elves universally spend eighty years living in their parents' basements before doing anything is fairly idiotic anyway.

[factotum]

Well, it does raise questions of why humans can be shooting lightning from their fingertips after only a couple of years of study whereas Elves apparently take decades, despite being supposedly more magically apt than humans are! That's probably why Races of the Wild tweaked it the way it did. However, as pointed out several times, we have canonical in-comic evidence that Rich is using the "20 years in diapers" approach to elven maturity, which suggests he isn't using that sourcebook.

[Lawless III]

Your argument is moot, because Races of the Wild is not an "alternative." It specifically states that the PHB (SRD) interpretation is not wrong, it merely expands upon it. You can clarify a point without negating it completely, you know.

Rich himself said that not every splatbooks rules apply (I'm not digging around for that, pretty sure it's in the FAQ or something.)Why exactly does Races of the Wild apply to OotS? There's no real reason to the best of my knowledge to believe it does, that's the basis of my argument here.

In fact, the Races of the Wilds aging rules are quite obviously not applicable to OotS. The comic states V's children's ages to be well above maturity by those rules (cited earlier in this same thread.)

So, yes, in fact any argument whose basis revolves around that splatbooks rules being applicable to OotS IS moot. I'm sorry you wasted time on it.:smallfrown:

edit: In case this is where the misunderstanding is arising from, I'm not saying drengnikrafe's entire post is incorrect, merely that the discussion that it started is based on an incorrect acceptance of Races of the Wild as applicable to the OotS universe.

Also, are you clarifying my point or negating it completely? You seem to be waffling in that whole issue, friend. :smallwink:

[Kranden]

He is # years old, hope that cleared up your question

[Nimrod's Son]

He is # years old, hope that cleared up your question
:smallconfused: Not really, seeing as the canonical answer is 54. As has already been clarified several times in this thread.

[derfenrirwolv]

If he's ignoring some age classifications (Namely that elves are physically mature by 25), there's no reason for him to maintain others. Every DM has his houserules. Age is an incredibly easy one to do that for, since it has little direct bearing on gameplay.

This isn't even a house rule against core. None of the main books specify exactly how younger elves grow up.. about the only critters that exists for is dragons.

I wonder how much XP V's children WERE worth...

[Vemynal]

can't have been worth much XD

[Optimystik]

Rich himself said that not every splatbooks rules apply (I'm not digging around for that, pretty sure it's in the FAQ or something.)Why exactly does Races of the Wild apply to OotS? There's no real reason to the best of my knowledge to believe it does, that's the basis of my argument here.

In fact, the Races of the Wilds aging rules are quite obviously not applicable to OotS. The comic states V's children's ages to be well above maturity by those rules (cited earlier in this same thread.)

So, yes, in fact any argument whose basis revolves around that splatbooks rules being applicable to OotS IS moot. I'm sorry you wasted time on it.:smallfrown:

Um, I'm pretty sure you're the one wasting time, because nothing in Races of the Wild applies to Durkon. So proving or disproving its applicability to OotS is a pile of needless text in this thread. Have a good day, sir.

[squid96]

Look, Rich just tweaked the rules a bit, maybe he changed the way dwarves mature.


GENERATION 20: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment

[Lawless III]

Um, I'm pretty sure you're the one wasting time, because nothing in Races of the Wild applies to Durkon. So proving or disproving its applicability to OotS is a pile of needless text in this thread. Have a good day, sir.

This has been going for a while, so it's understandable that you forgot how the discussion evolved. After someone mentioned the whole Races of the Wild thing, it turned into a giant discussion on elves and how Rich must be using a different aging scale than the PHb. I pointed out that RotW doesn't really apply, then we bickered.

The original issue was solved after about four posts, so needless text is the name of the game now. Have great day, sir.

[Bothi]

yknow, i agree with durkon with this Thor is awesome... and trees are evil