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Boci
2010-02-22, 01:02 PM
I am trying to homebred an LA: 0 outsider race, so I turned to crystalkepp for inspiration. This is what I found:

Glimmerfolk:

+2 Dexterity, –2 Strength
• Medium Size
• 30’ Movement
• Outsider (native)

• Low-light Vision
• +2 Racial bonus on Perform checks
• +4 Racial bonus on saves vs. spells of the (shadow) subschool or with the [darkness] descriptor.
• Immune to Pattern effects, such as Color Spray and Hypnotic Pattern.
• Has 3 Nimlis, which are 2” diameter floating globes of light that stay within 1’ of the Glimmerfolk. Each gives off light as bright as a Candle. The Glimmerfolk receives a –2 penalty per Nimli on Hide checks. As a Standard Action, a Glimmerfolk may discharge one or more Nimlis to activate a Spell-like Ability:
1 Nimli – Dancing Lights, Daze, or Flare
2 Nimlis – Color Spray or Magic Missile
3 Nimlis – Mirror Image
Discharged Nimlis reappear after 8 hours of rest.

Favoured Class: Ranger

Okay, so there is some conflict (rangers do not like hide penalties), but really, it looks like a powerful option without being an outsider. Am I missing something?

Edit: Perform, not intimidate bonus.

Greenish
2010-02-22, 01:07 PM
Outsider with Mirror Image 1/day as an SLA. It might be on the strong side of +0 LA, but might not be worth +1 LA. I assume the SLAs are cast at CL 1.

BooNL
2010-02-22, 01:11 PM
Where is this race from? Dragon?

First, Strength is seen by the Wiz as the strongest ability adjustment. I'm surprised it only gets one other stat boosted. In actual play it's pretty balanced though.

Native Outsider is probably enough to warrant an LA+1 though. As for the abilities, what's the caster level of them? Is it equal to the Glimmerfolk's level? The first two Nimlis aren't too bad, but the third. A level 2 spell at CL1, really?

Last, it has too many bonusses. And what the heck constitutes a 'pattern effect'? There's actually a pattern in everything, so basically they're immune to everything?

Glimmerfolk Warblade with Iron Heart Surge: can't touch this.

Quirp
2010-02-22, 01:15 PM
I don`t think it is as powerful as a human and the problems of the ranger/hide thing can be circumvented by discharging the SLAs at the beginning of the day. The only problem is the outsider type, but i think that only becomes an issue when you use alter self/polymorph and friends and those are broken anyway. The bonuses and immunities are somewhat situational so as long you don`t fight illusionists they are not really strong. The bonus to intimmidate could lead to funny charakters: the scary guy in front of you is a slim glowing guy (I don`t know how they look but I can`t picture "Glimmerfolk" (nice name though) as scary)

Ahhh! Where did 'I read intimidate.

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-22, 01:18 PM
Last, it has too many bonusses. And what the heck constitutes a 'pattern effect'? There's actually a pattern in everything, so basically they're immune to everything?

I think they meant Illusion effects with the [Pattern] descriptor. In other words, immunity to next to nothing.

hewhosaysfish
2010-02-22, 01:19 PM
And what the heck constitutes a 'pattern effect'? There's actually a pattern in everything, so basically they're immune to everything?

Pattern effects. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#pattern)

Boci
2010-02-22, 01:27 PM
Where is this race from? Dragon?

DR321 p71


First, Strength is seen by the Wiz as the strongest ability adjustment. I'm surprised it only gets one other stat boosted. In actual play it's pretty balanced though.

Native Outsider is probably enough to warrant an LA+1 though. As for the abilities, what's the caster level of them? Is it equal to the Glimmerfolk's level? The first two Nimlis aren't too bad, but the third. A level 2 spell at CL1, really?

Unfortunatly the entry does not say so, and I cannot find any further information so without the actual dragon magazine, I'm going to assume it is CL 1, since that is the least powerful.


Last, it has too many bonusses. And what the heck constitutes a 'pattern effect'? There's actually a pattern in everything, so basically they're immune to everything?

Pattern is a key word that appears in brackets after the word illusion in both colour spray and hypnotic pattern.



Ahhh! Where did 'I read intimidate.

My fault, typo.

So, the general idea is that its abilities are good, but not overpowered (without using already broken material), especially since most of them are so situational gthey will hardly ever come up?

BooNL
2010-02-22, 01:32 PM
Pattern effects. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#pattern)

Should teach me not to open my mouth before researching. :smallconfused:

In that case the race isn't really that powerful.

Quirp
2010-02-22, 02:16 PM
I think this race could be the bane of the killer gnome but I am not really sure if they are strong enough for that. But if you don΄t want gnomes in your campaign this race will do the trick. One thing they have going for them is the strength penalty/dexterity bonus. Few medium races get that (grey elf) and it is a great thing for casters and other not strength dependent squishies.

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-22, 02:20 PM
I think this race could be the bane of the killer gnome but I am not really sure if they are strong enough for that. But if you don΄t want gnomes in your campaign this race will do the trick. One thing they have going for them is the strength penalty/dexterity bonus. Few medium races get that (grey elf) and it is a great thing for casters and other not strength dependent squishies.

Nope. Shadow effects are not Pattern spells.

FMArthur
2010-02-22, 10:59 PM
I think it's balanced. It would be more comparable to weaker LA0 races without its Outsider typing, but is about par for the course for strong LA0 with it, maybe slightly too powerful, but it won't ruin a game and only makes a fool of a few terrible races.

Akal Saris
2010-02-23, 01:33 AM
Yeah, it looks fine to me. Compare it to the Neraph in the Planar Handbook for another +0 LA native outsider. Probably best as a bard race, but still inferior to a forest gnome, for example.

The choices for its racial spellcasting are really a false choice: the 1 orb options are absolutely horrible, at CL 1 the 2 orb options are pretty bad, and then the 3 orb option is decent enough to use 1/day.

SaintRidley
2010-02-23, 01:49 AM
Nope. Shadow effects are not Pattern spells.


• +4 Racial bonus on saves vs. spells of the (shadow) subschool or with the [darkness] descriptor.

arguskos
2010-02-23, 01:59 AM
• +4 Racial bonus on saves vs. spells of the (shadow) subschool or with the [darkness] descriptor.
Yes, but their additional stuff about [Pattern] spells wouldn't apply to any (shadow) spells (since I can't think of any spells that are "(shadow), [pattern]").

Quirp
2010-02-23, 05:06 AM
I really ment the save bonus. The immunity is only good against some other spells an illusionist might cast.

faceroll
2010-02-23, 05:18 AM
• +4 Racial bonus on saves vs. spells of the (shadow) subschool or with the [darkness] descriptor.

You really don't want to be making your saves vs. the killer gnome. Trust me.

SaintRidley
2010-02-23, 08:36 AM
You really don't want to be making your saves vs. the killer gnome. Trust me.

True, though I'm willing to bet WotC wasn't good enough at the whole foresight thing to think "Hey, these qualities can be combined to make shadow spells that are more real than the real thing" and instead thought "Shadow spells will always have a lesser effect, ergo save bonuses against are good."

You know, we do have to consider our source on things now and again.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-02-23, 12:29 PM
Unfortunatly the entry does not say so, and I cannot find any further information so without the actual dragon magazine, I'm going to assume it is CL 1, since that is the least powerful.

I have that Dragon issue, and the original entry doesn't mention the CL at all. I'd assume in that case that the CL would be the lowest necessary to use the SLA, so CL 3 for mirror image and CL 1 for the others.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-23, 03:08 PM
• Has 3 Nimlis, which are 2” diameter floating globes of light that stay within 1’ of the Glimmerfolk. Each gives off light as bright as a Candle. The Glimmerfolk receives a –2 penalty per Nimli on Hide checks. As a Standard Action, a Glimmerfolk may discharge one or more Nimlis to activate a Spell-like Ability:
1 Nimli – Dancing Lights, Daze, or Flare
2 Nimlis – Color Spray or Magic Missile
3 Nimlis – Mirror Image
Discharged Nimlis reappear after 8 hours of rest.

This could all be replaced by 1/day Mirror Image.

Greenish
2010-02-23, 03:12 PM
This could all be replaced by 1/day Mirror Image.But nimlis, dude, nimlis (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatDoYouMeanItsNotAwesome)!

faceroll
2010-02-23, 03:35 PM
This could all be replaced by 1/day Mirror Image.

I like the versatility. Color Spray can be useful.

awa
2010-02-23, 04:52 PM
i don't know a magic missile can come in handy on occasion