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Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 12:08 AM
Yes, the patron goddess of Adventurers herself. I'm wondering what her CR is. I imagine quite high since she is a deity but I'd like an exact number if there is one.

That or the CR of her Avatar.

HunterOfJello
2010-02-23, 12:21 AM
For 3e, Tiamat and it's Avatar are featured in Deities and Demigods. Tiamat has a Divine Rank of 10 and it's Avatar has a Divine Rank of 5. Divine Ranks go from 0 to 21+ but are never equated to CR. Someone on the forum might be able to convert Divine Rank to CR for you.

D&D Miniatures has the Aspect of Tiamat ranked at CR 13, but I think the 3.5e version is supposed to be much more powerful and challenging than that.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20060803b (source)



For 4e, Tiamat is featured in the Dracomonicon 1 and has a level of 35. Her Aspect has a level of 17.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 12:28 AM
okay, so My lowly Paladin couldn't kill her if he tried.

good to know.

Guess I'll just go shoot for Asmodeus then.:smalltongue:

Claudius Maximus
2010-02-23, 12:28 AM
An Aspect of Tiamat from the Fiendish Codex II Web Enhancement has a CR of 13.

Tiamat herself is not given a CR in Deities and Demigods.

HunterOfJello
2010-02-23, 12:33 AM
okay, so My lowly Paladin couldn't kill her if he tried.

good to know.



It's very unlikely. You could, however, put a lot of effort into spreading the message and faith of your own deity a great deal then pray really hard for him/her to intervene and kill Tiamat for you. You never know, it might work.

sonofzeal
2010-02-23, 12:40 AM
Guess I'll just go shoot for Asmodeus then.:smalltongue:
Er... I do hope you're joking there.


He's joking, right?

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 12:46 AM
Er... I do hope you're joking there.


He's joking, right?

No. No I'm not.Yes. Yes I am.

Innis Cabal
2010-02-23, 12:52 AM
Wasn't there a thread like this a month or two ago?

magic9mushroom
2010-02-23, 12:55 AM
Tiamat in 3.5e is a god, and gods have no CR.

Asmodeus has a very high CR, though it varies depending on what version you use (Book of Vile Darkness is tougher than Fiendish Codex II - the latter is supposed to be an avatar or something).

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 12:57 AM
Tiamat in 3.5e is a god, and gods have no CR.


Okay then I'll just become a divine rank 10 deity to fight her. (that can't be that hard right? right?)Yes, I know this has no chance of happening.

Okay, looks like it's time for Plan A.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-23, 01:16 AM
Some of the Gods also have different divine ranks depending on the world.
Lolth for instance, is more powerful in Forgotten Realms, than she is in Greyhawk. Having a few extra portfolios is apparently the divine equivalent to steroids.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-02-23, 03:52 AM
The problem with killing Tiamat is that Tiamat is too powerful. Your best bet is to convince The Burning Hate that Tiamat talked smack about him with an epic bluff check and watch them duke it out.

The problem with killing Asmodeus is that he's too clever. Even if you do get godlike power, he's planned a contingency for your inevitable confrontation and, being an epic wizard, will find a way to stop you. He could even invoke some old agreement between him and the LG gods and get them to rein you in. Your best bet is to be Vecna and wait, ever so patiently, for end game to unfold.

Runestar
2010-02-23, 04:26 AM
The problem with killing Tiamat is that Tiamat is too powerful.

Everything's relative. That and I am betting no DM knows the extent of the divine salient rules well enough to run Tiamat to be as challenging as any proposed cr would make her out to be. :smallbiggrin:

faceroll
2010-02-23, 04:30 AM
The problem with killing Asmodeus is that he's too clever.

Nah, that's just plot armor.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-02-23, 05:03 AM
Nah, that's just plot armor.Epic wizards don't need plot armor. Asmodeus is generally the most powerful epic wizard in the setting, who happens to have a built-in, non-abusive method of epic spell mitigation (his legion of necessarily loyal fiends). To be honest, he gets plot limitations, not plot armor. Even if it comes to that, plot armor is just the DM's proxy for the massive INT and ages of scheming.

faceroll
2010-02-23, 05:20 AM
Epic wizards don't need plot armor. Asmodeus is generally the most powerful epic wizard in the setting, who happens to have a built-in, non-abusive method of epic spell mitigation (his legion of necessarily loyal fiends). To be honest, he gets plot limitations, not plot armor. Even if it comes to that, plot armor is just the DM's proxy for the massive INT and ages of scheming.

My bad; it's fan armor. And here is exhibit A.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-02-23, 05:41 AM
My bad; it's fan armor. And here is exhibit A.I prefer the Vecna mythos, actually, smarmypants. I was just pointing out what Son of Zeal was implying. Asmodeus is the extreme version of the paranoid epic wizard with an incredible amount of resources, and depending on setting he can have agreements with even more powerful entities to ensure his existence. He's going to be incredibly difficult to kill. If he wasn't, some demon prince would have killed him already, or he would have been backstabbed by another archfiend. And I'm not saying it's impossible to kill him, either; I'm saying any PC solution is going to be very, very complicated.

faceroll
2010-02-23, 05:53 AM
I prefer the Vecna mythos, actually, smarmypants. I was just pointing out what Son of Zeal was implying. Asmodeus is the extreme version of the paranoid epic wizard with an incredible amount of resources, and depending on setting he can have agreements with even more powerful entities to ensure his existence. He's going to be incredibly difficult to kill. If he wasn't, some demon prince would have killed him already, or he would have been backstabbed by another archfiend. And I'm not saying it's impossible to kill him, either; I'm saying any PC solution is going to be very, very complicated.

Come on man, it's a game of make believe. The only reason you wouldn't get to kill Asmodeus is due to someone's preferences.

2xMachina
2010-02-23, 05:54 AM
Wizards can only be beaten by higher lvl wizards generally. When you add unlimited resources (he bleeds bloody pit fiends who bleed other devils), and a nice contract (Pact Primeval), there's not much you can do to him...

Also stuff with Divine Ranks are hard to kill. (Unless with Divine ranks yourself, or a Mac Guffin).

Haven
2010-02-23, 06:01 AM
okay, so My lowly Paladin couldn't kill her if he tried.

good to know.

Guess I'll just go shoot for Asmodeus then.:smalltongue:

Kind of surprised your next post wasn't "Asmodeus is too hard, huh? I know, I'll go after the Lady of Pain!" And then the post after that "oh͜͏ ̀t͠h͞͠e̴ ͘p̵a̧̢͘in͟ ͜͡p̢l҉͠e͟͟as̶̴ť m͏a̡k̢̀e̶͠ ̡i͞t̵ ̧̧s̢͘t͏̵̢o͢p̀"

Kaiyanwang
2010-02-23, 06:09 AM
As I imagine Asmodeus, I see him as the kind of villain that when you finally reach him, you suddenly realize he scammed you in three different ways days ago.

Just to add a thing on Asmodeus: there is a legend in manual of the planes, there is a legend talking about the fact that the Asmodeus in Nessus is not the real one, but just some sort of avatar, and the real one is a colossal monster more ancient than deities.

Sadly, is said that those who talk about this, die within 24 hours... I don't know if FC II changed this t... AAAAAARGGH.

*Succumbs to the Pit Fiend Meteor Swarm*

magic9mushroom
2010-02-23, 06:13 AM
Should note that it's canon that Asmodeus was pretty much able to bitchslap all the other archdevils combined.

hamishspence
2010-02-23, 06:15 AM
FC2 changed it, sort of- by describing Serpents Coil (the canyon containing him) as having been carved out by his plummetting form- but not simply the impact of his body.

So, if you went into Sepent's coil, you wouldn't find a miles-long body- you'd find a spiral canyon, at the end of the canyon, in the centre of Nessus you'd find a fortress (Fortress Nessus, not the same place as Malsheem which is Asmodeus's palace and the home of his armies) and in the fortress, you'd find him.

Runestar
2010-02-23, 06:15 AM
Dicefreaks pegged him at cr80, IIRC. Though by their admission, his cr may have been a tad overinflated. :smallsigh:

Kaiyanwang
2010-02-23, 06:22 AM
FC2 changed it, sort of- by describing Serpents Coil (the canyon containing him) as having been carved out by his plummetting form- but not simply the impact of his body.

So, if you went into Sepent's coil, you wouldn't find a miles-long body- you'd find a spiral canyon, at the end of the canyon, in the centre of Nessus you'd find a fortress (Fortress Nessus, not the same place as Malsheem which is Asmodeus's palace and the home of his armies) and in the fortress, you'd find him.

Interesting.. I think I'll keep the MotP version, I guess. I really LOVE, love love FC I&II, barring the Asmodeus part.

I remember better the part when says that the plan of Asmodeus is to ally with Demons to defeat upper planes. This is Gorgons**t in my opinion, I see more likely Asmodeus ally with an Archon that with a Demon..

Optimystik
2010-02-23, 06:54 AM
Interesting.. I think I'll keep the MotP version, I guess. I really LOVE, love love FC I&II, barring the Asmodeus part.

Does he really need to be miles long? The word "overkill" comes to mind.


I remember better the part when says that the plan of Asmodeus is to ally with Demons to defeat upper planes. This is Gorgons**t in my opinion, I see more likely Asmodeus ally with an Archon that with a Demon..

That's just what he wants you to think. :smalleek:

Volkov
2010-02-23, 07:15 AM
It's very unlikely. You could, however, put a lot of effort into spreading the message and faith of your own deity a great deal then pray really hard for him/her to intervene and kill Tiamat for you. You never know, it might work.

Io would not be happy at all if your deity tried to kill Tiamat. And the Rilmani/Mordenkainen will kill either Kill Bahumat or find a replacement for Tiamat in order to maintain balance. Io will try to revive her or find a replacement.

Haven
2010-02-23, 07:17 AM
the Rilmani

Everyone forgets about those guys :smallfrown: Did they even make it into 3rd edition, let alone 4th? (Well, on Planewalker, sure...)

Volkov
2010-02-23, 07:18 AM
Everyone forgets about those guys :smallfrown: Did they even make it into 3rd edition, let alone 4th? (Well, on Planewalker, sure...)

They made it into 3rd. I don't care about 4th enough to check on anything about it.

hamishspence
2010-02-23, 07:18 AM
They are in the Fiend Folio.

Kaiyanwang
2010-02-23, 07:24 AM
That's just what he wants you to think. :smalleek:

You are probably right :smallsmile:

Ancalagon
2010-02-23, 07:25 AM
Kind of surprised your next post wasn't "Asmodeus is too hard, huh? I know, I'll go after the Lady of Pain!" And then the post after that "oh͜͏ ̀t͠h͞͠e̴ ͘p̵a̧̢͘in͟ ͜͡p̢l҉͠e͟͟as̶̴ť m͏a̡k̢̀e̶͠ ̡i͞t̵ ̧̧s̢͘t͏̵̢o͢p̀"

So... what's the CR of her? Just asking so some made-up alter-ego can kill her and I can feel cool. The girls do like stories on how my epic paladin killed The Lady of Pain, they are impressed by that, yes? ;)

Volkov
2010-02-23, 07:33 AM
So... what's the CR of her? Just asking so some made-up alter-ego can kill her and I can feel cool. The girls do like stories on how my epic paladin killed The Lady of Pain, they are impressed by that, yes? ;)

I'm not sure if she is even statted. And don't go for the general of gehenna, he's stronger than asmodeus.

Douglas
2010-02-23, 08:45 AM
The Lady of Pain's CR is "plot". This is pretty much official, I think, and all official sources refuse to give her stats specifically because stats would mean it's theoretically possible to kill her.


okay, so My lowly Paladin couldn't kill her if he tried.

good to know.
Just teleport a sword into her heart.

/obscure reference to a particularly idiotic thread from this forum's past.

kamikasei
2010-02-23, 08:49 AM
The Lady of Pain's CR is "plot". This is pretty much official, I think, and all official sources refuse to give her stats specifically because stats would mean it's theoretically possible to kill her.

There's an unofficial statblock out there. It contains lines like "initiative: goes first", "armour class: you miss" and "special qualities: she wins".

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-23, 09:31 AM
The problem with killing Tiamat is that Tiamat is too powerful.

BS. TO's nuked her more times than I care to count.

Noodles2375
2010-02-23, 10:00 AM
It might be a possible to create an aspect of Tiamat for you to fight. A creature that has none of Tiamat's Salient Divine Abilities, but keeps most of the physical abilities, breath weapons, etc. The key here is that Tiamat has 5 heads each the color of a chromatic dragon and that her heads can break action economy.

CR's for chromatic Great Wyrns (an aspect of Tiamat should be able to take any of these):

Black: 22
Blue: 25
Green: 24
Red: 26
White: 21

I don't really know a cookbook for her abilities and hit dice that would fit into this "neighborhood of CR 27/28" worldview.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 02:00 PM
Io would not be happy at all if your deity tried to kill Tiamat. And the Rilmani/Mordenkainen will kill either Kill Bahumat or find a replacement for Tiamat in order to maintain balance. Io will try to revive her or find a replacement.

Well plan A won't get Io on my butt at least.(Yes. Killing a god is my Backup plan)

who or what are the rilmani?

hamishspence
2010-02-23, 02:08 PM
Manual of the Planes has a high-end aspect of Tiamat (no salient divine abilities, all heads can attack.)

It only has 25 HD though.

Tequila Sunrise
2010-02-23, 02:43 PM
Tiamat, Asmodeus and all the others are pathetic noobs compared to this guy:


Io, the True Dragon
Io appears as the biggest dragon youíve ever seen. I know Iíve said that about the last five dragons youíve fought, but I promise I wonít say it again. Itís extra true this time. His scales, surprisingly enough, are flawless mythril plates of draconic perfection. Howíre they different from Bahamutís platinum scales and a silverís silver scales? I dunno, theyíre more shiny or something.
Really Colossal Dragon
Divine Rank: 25
Domains: Destruction, Luck, Trickery
Hit Dice: 60d12 + 1,920 (2,640)
I Go First: No, really, I have Supreme Initiative (+16)
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares), fly 300 ft. good (60 squares), swim 60 ft. (12 squares), burrow 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 131 (-8 size, +12 Dex, +25 divine, +32 deflection, +60 natural), touch 71, flat-footed 119; 75% Miss Chance
Base Attack/Grapple: +60/+133
Mm, Tasty Adventurer: Bite +109 (6d6 + 32)
I Slice and Dice Too: Bite +109 (6d6 + 32), Claws +109/+109/+104/+99/+94 (4d8 + 16), Wings +109/+109/+104/+99/+94 (4d6 + 16), Tail Slap +109 (4d8 + 48)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./30 ft. (40 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks: All-the-Other-Breath-Weapons-Were-Taken, Crush, Frightful Presence, Tail Sweep, Spells
Special Qualities: Blind Sense 60 ft., Damage Reduction 50/+10, Fast Healing 45, Iím Immune Sucka!, Keen Senses, Pffft I Donít Even Have to Roll, Spell Resistance 50
I Laugh at Your Tricks: Fort +89, Ref +69, Will +89
Donít Hate Me ĎCause Iím Perfect: Str 75, Dex 35, Con 75, Int 75, Wis 75, Cha 75
Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better: Bluff +120, Concentration +120, Diplomacy +120, Escape Artist +100, Hide +100, Intimidate +120, Knowledge (Arcane) +120, Listen +120, Move Silently +100, Search +120, Sense Motive +120, Spell Craft +120, Spot +120, Use Magic Device +120
Feats: Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative, Improved Multiattack, Improved Rapid Strike (Claws), Improved Rapid Strike (Wings), Large and in Charge, Multiattack, Power Attack, Quicken Breath, Quicken Spell, Rapid Strike (Claws), Rapid Strike (Wings), Silent Spell, Still Spell
Epic Feats: Dire Charge, Epic Spell Casting, Improved Metamagic (3), Multispell (2)
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Reality, Alter Form, Alter Size, Area Divine Shield, Battle Sense, Clear Sight, Control Creatures (Dragons), Divine Blast, Divine Celerity, Divine Dodge, Divine Fast Healing, Divine Glibness, Divine Spell Casting, Mass Divine Blast, Divine Shield, Free Move, Instant Counter Spell, Instant Move, Power of Luck, Power of Truth, Rejuvenation, Shape Change, Shift Form, Supreme Initiative, True Shape Change
Environment: Adamant Mountain
Organization: Silly Mortal, They Donít Know What to Do With Just One of Me
Challenge Rating: 40 + Divine Ranks = You Canít Beat Me
Treasure: Youíre Wearing My Newest Delivery
Alignment: Neutral, So You Canít Smite Me, Mwahahaha!

All-the-Other-Breath-Weapons-Were-Taken: 80 ft. cone; 40d12 minty fresh damage; Reflex half (DC 72).
Crush: See MM, page 68; Huge or smaller foe; Reflex DC 72; 6d6 + 48 damage.
Frightful Presence: See MM, page 69; 600 ft. radius; Will DC 72.
Spells: Io casts spells as a 40th level sorcerer with the metamagic specialist feature. Because heís extra special, Io has access to any spell list he wants. Spell DCs 42 + Spell Level.

Epic (6/day): True Contingent Resurrection:
True Contingent Resurrection
Necromancy [Healing] Ė (Silly mortal, conjurations that heal are stupid.)
Spell Craft DC: 92
Components: DF
Casting Time: 1 quickened action
Range: Touch
Target: You or touched creature
Duration: Contingent until expended, then instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
To Develop: Seed: life (DC 27). Factor: quickened spell (+28 DC), activates when subject dies (+25 DC), no somatic component (+2 DC), no verbal component (+2 DC), no remains required (+4 DC ad hoc), no level loss (+4 DC ad hoc).
Effect: Iím back, biatch!

Spells Iíll Never Run Out Of:
32 (2/day)
31 (2/day)
30 (2/day)
29 (2/day)
28 (3/day)
27 (3/day)
26 (3/day)
25 (3/day)
24 (4/day)
23 (4/day)
22 (4/day)
21 (4/day)
20 (5/day)
19 (5/day)
18 (5/day)
17 (5/day)
16 (6/day)
15 (6/day)
14 (6/day)
13 (6/day)
12 (7/day)
11 (7/day)
10 (7/day)
9 (12/day): Freedom, Imprisonment, Mass Heal
8 (13/day): Dimensional Lock, Greater Spell Immunity, Moment of Prescience
7 (13/day): Blasphemy, Greater Arcane Sight, Greater Restoration
6 (13/day): Antimagic Field, Disintegrate, Heal
5 (13/day): Break Enchantment, Raryís Telepathic Bond, Telekinesis, Wall of Force
4 (14/day): Bestow Curse, Greater Invisibility, Neutralize Poison, Superior Magic Fang (SC)
3 (14/day): Contagion, Haste, Magic Circle, Slow
2 (14/day): Bark Skin, Bearís Endurance, Bullís Strength, Protection from Arrows, Wraith Strike (SC)
1 (14/day): Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shield, True Strike
0 (6/day): Who cares, honestly?

Tail Sweep: See MM, page 68; Large or smaller foes; 50 ft. radius; Reflex DC 72; 4d6 + 48 damage.
Damage Reduction: A weapon ignores 5 points of Ioís damage reduction per enhancement bonus it has.
Iím Immune Sucka!: Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Banishment Effects, Cold Damage, Death Effects, Disease, Disintegration, Electricity Damage, Energy Drain, Fire Damage, Imprisonment Effects, Mind-Affecting Effects, Paralysis Effects, Poison, Rebuking, Sleep Effects, Stunning, Transmutation, Turning
Pffft I Donít Even Have to Roll: Seriously, even if my bonuses werenít crazy high, Iím a freakiní overdeity. That means Iím treated as rolling a 20 on any check, saving throw or attack roll. Roll those attack rolls anyway though, I might get a critical threat! Oh and I always deal maximum damage Ė whether physical, breath weapon or spell. (Though, as if I would use a direct damage spell Ė theyíre so nooooob!)
If you kill this guy, you win D&D.


Well plan A won't get Io on my butt at least.(Yes. Killing a god is my Backup plan)

who or what are the rilmani?
The rilmani are the Outlands' native race, introduced in 2e's Planescape setting. They're not as flashy as fiends or celestials and not as weird as slaadi or modrons; their shtick is to hang out in the spire that Sigil floats above and maintain the balance of the multiverse by preventing any one ideology from winning.

Douglas
2010-02-23, 03:10 PM
Tiamat, Asmodeus and all the others are pathetic noobs compared to this guy:


Io, the True Dragon
Io appears as the biggest dragon youíve ever seen. I know Iíve said that about the last five dragons youíve fought, but I promise I wonít say it again. Itís extra true this time. His scales, surprisingly enough, are flawless mythril plates of draconic perfection. Howíre they different from Bahamutís platinum scales and a silverís silver scales? I dunno, theyíre more shiny or something.
Really Colossal Dragon
Divine Rank: 25
Domains: Destruction, Luck, Trickery
Hit Dice: 60d12 + 1,920 (2,640)
I Go First: No, really, I have Supreme Initiative (+16)
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares), fly 300 ft. good (60 squares), swim 60 ft. (12 squares), burrow 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 131 (-8 size, +12 Dex, +25 divine, +32 deflection, +60 natural), touch 71, flat-footed 119; 75% Miss Chance
Base Attack/Grapple: +60/+133
Mm, Tasty Adventurer: Bite +109 (6d6 + 32)
I Slice and Dice Too: Bite +109 (6d6 + 32), Claws +109/+109/+104/+99/+94 (4d8 + 16), Wings +109/+109/+104/+99/+94 (4d6 + 16), Tail Slap +109 (4d8 + 48)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./30 ft. (40 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks: All-the-Other-Breath-Weapons-Were-Taken, Crush, Frightful Presence, Tail Sweep, Spells
Special Qualities: Blind Sense 60 ft., Damage Reduction 50/+10, Fast Healing 45, Iím Immune Sucka!, Keen Senses, Pffft I Donít Even Have to Roll, Spell Resistance 50
I Laugh at Your Tricks: Fort +89, Ref +69, Will +89
Donít Hate Me ĎCause Iím Perfect: Str 75, Dex 35, Con 75, Int 75, Wis 75, Cha 75
Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better: Bluff +120, Concentration +120, Diplomacy +120, Escape Artist +100, Hide +100, Intimidate +120, Knowledge (Arcane) +120, Listen +120, Move Silently +100, Search +120, Sense Motive +120, Spell Craft +120, Spot +120, Use Magic Device +120
Feats: Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative, Improved Multiattack, Improved Rapid Strike (Claws), Improved Rapid Strike (Wings), Large and in Charge, Multiattack, Power Attack, Quicken Breath, Quicken Spell, Rapid Strike (Claws), Rapid Strike (Wings), Silent Spell, Still Spell
Epic Feats: Dire Charge, Epic Spell Casting, Improved Metamagic (3), Multispell (2)
Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Reality, Alter Form, Alter Size, Area Divine Shield, Battle Sense, Clear Sight, Control Creatures (Dragons), Divine Blast, Divine Celerity, Divine Dodge, Divine Fast Healing, Divine Glibness, Divine Spell Casting, Mass Divine Blast, Divine Shield, Free Move, Instant Counter Spell, Instant Move, Power of Luck, Power of Truth, Rejuvenation, Shape Change, Shift Form, Supreme Initiative, True Shape Change
Environment: Adamant Mountain
Organization: Silly Mortal, They Donít Know What to Do With Just One of Me
Challenge Rating: 40 + Divine Ranks = You Canít Beat Me
Treasure: Youíre Wearing My Newest Delivery
Alignment: Neutral, So You Canít Smite Me, Mwahahaha!

All-the-Other-Breath-Weapons-Were-Taken: 80 ft. cone; 40d12 minty fresh damage; Reflex half (DC 72).
Crush: See MM, page 68; Huge or smaller foe; Reflex DC 72; 6d6 + 48 damage.
Frightful Presence: See MM, page 69; 600 ft. radius; Will DC 72.
Spells: Io casts spells as a 40th level sorcerer with the metamagic specialist feature. Because heís extra special, Io has access to any spell list he wants. Spell DCs 42 + Spell Level.

Epic (6/day): True Contingent Resurrection:
True Contingent Resurrection
Necromancy [Healing] Ė (Silly mortal, conjurations that heal are stupid.)
Spell Craft DC: 92
Components: DF
Casting Time: 1 quickened action
Range: Touch
Target: You or touched creature
Duration: Contingent until expended, then instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
To Develop: Seed: life (DC 27). Factor: quickened spell (+28 DC), activates when subject dies (+25 DC), no somatic component (+2 DC), no verbal component (+2 DC), no remains required (+4 DC ad hoc), no level loss (+4 DC ad hoc).
Effect: Iím back, biatch!

Spells Iíll Never Run Out Of:
32 (2/day)
31 (2/day)
30 (2/day)
29 (2/day)
28 (3/day)
27 (3/day)
26 (3/day)
25 (3/day)
24 (4/day)
23 (4/day)
22 (4/day)
21 (4/day)
20 (5/day)
19 (5/day)
18 (5/day)
17 (5/day)
16 (6/day)
15 (6/day)
14 (6/day)
13 (6/day)
12 (7/day)
11 (7/day)
10 (7/day)
9 (12/day): Freedom, Imprisonment, Mass Heal
8 (13/day): Dimensional Lock, Greater Spell Immunity, Moment of Prescience
7 (13/day): Blasphemy, Greater Arcane Sight, Greater Restoration
6 (13/day): Antimagic Field, Disintegrate, Heal
5 (13/day): Break Enchantment, Raryís Telepathic Bond, Telekinesis, Wall of Force
4 (14/day): Bestow Curse, Greater Invisibility, Neutralize Poison, Superior Magic Fang (SC)
3 (14/day): Contagion, Haste, Magic Circle, Slow
2 (14/day): Bark Skin, Bearís Endurance, Bullís Strength, Protection from Arrows, Wraith Strike (SC)
1 (14/day): Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shield, True Strike
0 (6/day): Who cares, honestly?

Tail Sweep: See MM, page 68; Large or smaller foes; 50 ft. radius; Reflex DC 72; 4d6 + 48 damage.
Damage Reduction: A weapon ignores 5 points of Ioís damage reduction per enhancement bonus it has.
Iím Immune Sucka!: Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Banishment Effects, Cold Damage, Death Effects, Disease, Disintegration, Electricity Damage, Energy Drain, Fire Damage, Imprisonment Effects, Mind-Affecting Effects, Paralysis Effects, Poison, Rebuking, Sleep Effects, Stunning, Transmutation, Turning
Pffft I Donít Even Have to Roll: Seriously, even if my bonuses werenít crazy high, Iím a freakiní overdeity. That means Iím treated as rolling a 20 on any check, saving throw or attack roll. Roll those attack rolls anyway though, I might get a critical threat! Oh and I always deal maximum damage Ė whether physical, breath weapon or spell. (Though, as if I would use a direct damage spell Ė theyíre so nooooob!)

The really sad thing here is that the only thing that might stop that from being a cakewalk for a certain level 18 party linked in my sig is the SDAs. Alter Reality could do it if thoroughly abused, but Alter Reality is so abusable it makes the entire rest of the stat block irrelevant if used to its potential. I'd have to look up the rest to see if they'd make a difference.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 03:20 PM
The really sad thing here is that the only thing that might stop that from being a cakewalk for a certain level 18 party linked in my sig is the SDAs. Alter Reality could do it if thoroughly abused, but Alter Reality is so abusable it makes the entire rest of the stat block irrelevant if used to its potential. I'd have to look up the rest to see if they'd make a difference.

I think he meant if I beat Io as a Paladin.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 03:30 PM
The really sad thing here is that the only thing that might stop that from being a cakewalk for a certain level 18 party linked in my sig is the SDAs. Alter Reality could do it if thoroughly abused, but Alter Reality is so abusable it makes the entire rest of the stat block irrelevant if used to its potential. I'd have to look up the rest to see if they'd make a difference.

Three words for you, bluff and diplomacy. He convinces your team to kill themselves with his uber bluff check. Or he justs wishes them away.

chiasaur11
2010-02-23, 03:33 PM
Three words for you, bluff and diplomacy. He convinces your team to kill themselves with his uber bluff check. Or he justs wishes them away.

See, this sort of this is why all paladins should be Kobolds.

It means when the DM sends one of yours to the cleaners, you can send one of his to the morgue. He pulls a knife, you've got a gun.

That, after all, is the Chicago way.

Douglas
2010-02-23, 03:39 PM
Three words for you, bluff and diplomacy. He convinces your team to kill themselves with his uber bluff check. Or he justs wishes them away.
Diplomacy doesn't work on PCs. Bluff, well, you could instill a Suggestion but even that has limits and I think mind-affecting immunity still blocks it. And Wish, even cast by a deity, cannot arbitrarily kill a party with no save.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 03:53 PM
Diplomacy doesn't work on PCs. Bluff, well, you could instill a Suggestion but even that has limits and I think mind-affecting immunity still blocks it. And Wish, even cast by a deity, cannot arbitrarily kill a party with no save.

He could bluff them into thinking that he's not their real enemy and point a finger at erythnul. And he could wish/reality warp your powers away.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 03:54 PM
He could bluff them into thinking that he's not their real enemy and point a finger at erythnul. And he could wish/reality warp your powers away.

I could probably find a way to massively boost sense motive to avoid this happening.

also, Dragonborn are immune to frightful presence :smalltongue:

Volkov
2010-02-23, 04:01 PM
I could probably find a way to massively boost sense motive to avoid this happening.

also, Dragonborn are immune to frightful presence :smalltongue:

And he'll just find a way to massively boost his bluff check and alter reality to instantly have it.

By the way, I remember those Io stats (a more serious version of them anyway) from somwhere. Where did you get them?

Volkov
2010-02-23, 04:10 PM
The correct way to beat that io is to be a great wyrm force dragon with 24 levels in sorcerer. Kick Io's rear end in a magic fight, then steal his divinity. Alternatetively, be Vecna and steal his powers.

Eldariel
2010-02-23, 04:16 PM
The correct way to beat that io is to be a great wyrm force dragon with 24 levels in sorcerer. Kick Io's rear end in a magic fight, then steal his divinity. Alternatetively, be Vecna and steal his powers.

You'll lose either way.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 04:18 PM
You'll lose either way.

You must have never have played 2e's vecna series. Vecna=an undead god version of doctor doom/thanos.

Eldan
2010-02-23, 04:20 PM
I think I saw someone on Dicefreaks do a Lady of Pain which he estimated to have a CR of 290, or so. Can't find her, though.

Note: the poster thinks that statting the Lady is silly. Three squirrels and a ring don't need stats.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 04:22 PM
I think I saw someone on Dicefreaks do a Lady of Pain which he estimated to have a CR of 290, or so. Can't find her, though.

Note: the poster thinks that statting the Lady is silly. Three squirrels and a ring don't need stats.

Considering that the lady of pain could not stand against Vecna on her own when he was rampaging throuughout sigil with the powers of a greater deity, I'd say his estimates are way off.

CTLC
2010-02-23, 04:29 PM
io should be many sizes larger, the next biggest dragon ever is smaller than one of his scales.
Get bahamut to help you? Hes the coolest of all dragons anyways.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 04:45 PM
io should be many sizes larger, the next biggest dragon ever is smaller than one of his scales.
Get bahamut to help you? Hes the coolest of all dragons anyways.

Bahumat would never slay his sister, even if she is evil. Because next in line for god of chromatiic dragons is falazure, who is far nastier than Tiamat. Plus, that divine power has got to go somwhere, and it will probably go to falazure, making him a rank 18 greater god and would permanently tip the balance in evil's favor, though tiamat's avatars would still be around to replace her as dragonkind's lawful evil god.

Also, Bel and Asmodeus, if not the entirety of the archdevils, not to mention Hextor, Kurtlmak, Hecate, Sobek, and Surtur would never let you kill Tiamat, as the lawful evil deities are a tight nit bunch.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 04:46 PM
oooh can I kill Falazure then?

Haven
2010-02-23, 04:52 PM
Considering that the lady of pain could not stand against Vecna on her own when he was rampaging throuughout sigil with the powers of a greater deity, I'd say his estimates are way off.

Well, that never made a lot of sense. If a greater deity could just rampage through Sigil like that, it would have happened already and creation would have been screwed some time ago. I don't remember but presumably there was some sort of one-time circumstance that applied to Vecna then (aka massive plot bonus to counteract the Lady's plot powers), meaning that you can't use Die Vecna Die as a representative of her power.

Alternate theory: she let it happen for one reason or another, presumably because it was what was needed to see the multiverse through to its next stage. The Lady of Pain's the midwife (it must have been a Caesarian) and Vecna's the birth pains.

Tequila Sunrise
2010-02-23, 04:56 PM
I'm pretty sure you can't win a game like D&D, but if you ever defeated that stat block -- whether by optimization, DM fiat or sheer paladin mojo -- I think I would be proven wrong. Because after that, what's left to do but go out to lunch? :smallwink:


By the way, I remember those Io stats (a more serious version of them anyway) from somewhere. Where did you get them?
I wrote those stats a few months ago as a joke/demonstration of the game's silliest books: ELH and DD. To my knowledge, Io's never been officially stated and I'm the only amateur to ever waste his time doing so. Though if you searched the web long enough you cold probably prove me wrong.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 04:59 PM
oooh can I kill Falazure then?

He's undead, and has Nerull's, Io's, more or less the entire kobold pantheon's, and Tiamat's protection. He is Tiamat's son and from what I gather, Tiamat is very protective of her direct children. Even if said child is the embodiement of more or less every bad-trait of dragonkind as the NE god of the draconic pantheon.

Tequila Sunrise
2010-02-23, 05:00 PM
io should be many sizes larger, the next biggest dragon ever is smaller than one of his scales.
Get bahamut to help you? Hes the coolest of all dragons anyways.
I always thought it was unfair that Tiamat has five heads, while Bahamut only has one. I think Bahamut should be re-envisioned to have claw-mounted laser cannons. Or something.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 05:01 PM
Well, that never made a lot of sense. If a greater deity could just rampage through Sigil like that, it would have happened already and creation would have been screwed some time ago. I don't remember but presumably there was some sort of one-time circumstance that applied to Vecna then (aka massive plot bonus to counteract the Lady's plot powers), meaning that you can't use Die Vecna Die as a representative of her power.

Alternate theory: she let it happen for one reason or another, presumably because it was what was needed to see the multiverse through to its next stage. The Lady of Pain's the midwife (it must have been a Caesarian) and Vecna's the birth pains.

Vecna is perhaps the canniest of the evil entities of the D&D multiverse. He achieved more in a few centuries than Asmodeus achieved in his 200-100 million year long life. He probably found a way to overwhelm the lady on his own.

Haven
2010-02-23, 05:17 PM
Vecna is perhaps the canniest of the evil entities of the D&D multiverse. He achieved more in a few centuries than Asmodeus achieved in his 200-100 million year long life. He probably found a way to overwhelm the lady on his own.

Maybe so, maybe no--I don't really know much about Vecna (other than people like to cut out their body parts to substitute his), and I refuse to give up my Planescape fanboiism :p But either way, my point is, the case is an extreme outlier.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 05:32 PM
He's undead, and has Nerull's, Io's, more or less the entire kobold pantheon's, and Tiamat's protection. He is Tiamat's son and from what I gather, Tiamat is very protective of her direct children. Even if said child is the embodiement of more or less every bad-trait of dragonkind as the NE god of the draconic pantheon.

Okay, which evil gods CAN I kill?

Volkov
2010-02-23, 05:42 PM
Okay, which evil gods CAN I kill?

Go for Karaan, demigod of nature's bad side.

BenTheJester
2010-02-23, 05:47 PM
Okay, which evil gods CAN I kill?

Why do you want to kill an evil god anyway?


I once played an evil Campaign in which I was able to kill Ehlonna. Took me a whole campaign to kill her followers, destroy her temples, soil her name, until only a handful of beings still believed in her.

The less followers a god have, the less powerful he is, so she was brought down to rank 0 and I was able to finally slay her.



But this was not a one-on-one fight which happened overnight in the likes of "i has epic palidan n he kills godz"; the whole campaign was centered on me killing her.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 05:50 PM
Why do you want to kill an evil god anyway?
.

The real question is why not? (this will probably be only theoretical and I'm bored)

BRC
2010-02-23, 05:53 PM
Okay, which evil gods CAN I kill?
Generally, if it's a God, you can't kill it, at least not until the kinds of epic levels where the entire game breaks down. And if you try, there some sort of epic-level inevitable that shows up to stop you.
Think about it this way, God's are incredibly powerful, many of them hate each other and have no compunctions about killing, and yet they haven't killed each other, or even really tried.
Working on the Worship=Power equation, the easiest way to destroy gods is to break up their followers.
The easiest evil god to destroy would be the Burning Hate, considering how he's apparently managed to deceive large numbers of good aligned people into worshiping him, revealing his duplicity should break his power base.

BenTheJester
2010-02-23, 05:56 PM
The real question is why not? (this will probably be only theoretical and I'm bored)

If it's only theorical, it sucks.

Unless you use cheese, you just can't beat them.

I don't see the fun in that.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-23, 06:16 PM
If it's only theorical, it sucks.

Unless you use cheese, you just can't beat them.

I don't see the fun in that.

I'm sorry. I'm bored, Malak's a coward and my roast won't be out for another hour or so.

Volkov
2010-02-23, 07:23 PM
Why do you want to kill an evil god anyway?


I once played an evil Campaign in which I was able to kill Ehlonna. Took me a whole campaign to kill her followers, destroy her temples, soil her name, until only a handful of beings still believed in her.

The less followers a god have, the less powerful he is, so she was brought down to rank 0 and I was able to finally slay her.



But this was not a one-on-one fight which happened overnight in the likes of "i has epic palidan n he kills godz"; the whole campaign was centered on me killing her.
Actually in 3.X greyhawk, deities cannot be weakened by the loss of followers. Their power can only increase barring their divine ranks being stolen or them giving some of them to someone else. Also, when a deity dies violently, any divine ranks they have on them are freed up and can be stolen if you know the proper spell/power/mystery/whatever. Though typically, most just steal the divine power from the deity while they are still alive. Zagyg became a god this way, and Vecna rose from demigod to greater god this way. Though even when he was robbed of much of this power, he still retained enough stolen divine ranks to stay as a lesser deity, so it was not an overall loss for him.

Though he appeared to stop there and didn't do much of anything for the remainder of Greyhawk's existence.

Closak
2010-02-24, 12:02 PM
Tiamat is very protective of her direct children.

Just how protective are we talking here?

And what about her mates?


"We are detecting a large amount o-"
(TWHACK)
"Shut up"

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 12:03 PM
Just how protective are we talking here?

And what about her mates?


"We are detecting a large amount o-"
(TWHACK)
"Shut up"

I think she's killed one or two of her mates.

Closak
2010-02-24, 12:10 PM
Why would she do that?

Did they call her fat or something?



"We are detecting a large amount of illogical actions in the area"
"Didn't i just knock you out?"
"Correction: Machines cannot be 'knocked out' in the sense you are reffering to, organic"
"Pfffffttt"

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 12:15 PM
Why would she do that?

Did they call her fat or something?



"We are detecting a large amount of illogical actions in the area"
"Didn't i just knock you out?"
"Correction: Machines cannot be 'knocked out' in the sense you are reffering to, organic"
"Pfffffttt"

Not sure but do you really expect to last long if you make Tiamat mad and aren't at least Epic level?

JoshuaZ
2010-02-24, 12:20 PM
Nah, that's just plot armor.

If by plot armor you mean minimal sanity needed to keep an at least superficially consistent universe then yes. If it were that easy to do away with any of these you would need to ask why it hadn't been done many times before. Asmodeus has been around for as long as any entity is aware.

Volkov
2010-02-24, 12:27 PM
Just how protective are we talking here?

And what about her mates?


"We are detecting a large amount o-"
(TWHACK)
"Shut up"

Rip her consort's throats out for killing one, even if they were not aware that it was her child and said child issued a challenge for a fight to the death with said consort.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 12:32 PM
Rip her consort's throats out for killing one, even if they were not aware that it was her child and said child issued a challenge for a fight to the death with said consort.

Is that Dragotha? I recall something like that concerning him in 4th edition.

Closak
2010-02-24, 12:47 PM
In other words, be really careful about who you kill.
Either that, or be powerful enough to beat her into submission when she attacks you.
You probably have to be a god yourself or something to pull that off though.


"We are-"
"Don't start it"
"We do not understand your request, further data is required"
"(Eyetwitch)"

Volkov
2010-02-24, 12:48 PM
Is that Dragotha? I recall something like that concerning him in 4th edition.

That's 4e's spin on it, but before she did it because he sympathized with Kyuss. Falazure does too, but Tiamat loves her direct children more than she does her mates. Not even Asmodeus has ever risked her wrath by killing one of her sons or daughters. Which says quite a lot.

Also, compared to Zargon and the ancient baatorians, the Baernoloths, and the Obyriths, Asmodeus is a newcomer. Hell, Pelor, Kord, Obad-hai, and Nerull might be older than him since they fought off a far realm incursion when Oerth was still very young, probably before the wind dukes handed the armies of chaos's (almost all obyriths and tanar'ri) rear ends.

And the Aboleths predate those four in turn, so it's likely they also predate Asmodeus, and I bet that a few of them were alive long, long before Asmodeus was ever around.

Closak
2010-02-24, 12:53 PM
Sounds like being one of Tiamat's offspring will let you get away with quite a lot due to everyone being scared that mommy will murder them if they do anything.

Which brings me to the queston of exactly how many direct children does she have anyway?



"We do not believe that continuing to seek this information is a wise course of action"
"I do not believe i asked for your opinion, machine"
"And we do not believe your brain is functioning properly, organic"

...I can't believe i'm being harassed by a sentient machine.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 12:56 PM
...I can't believe i'm being harassed by a sentient machine.

Now you're being harrassed by two. Meatbag. (KOTOR reference.)

Volkov
2010-02-24, 12:57 PM
Sounds like being one of Tiamat's offspring will let you get away with quite a lot due to everyone being scared that mommy will murder them if they do anything.

Which brings me to the queston of exactly how many direct children does she have anyway?



"We do not believe that continuing to seek this information is a wise course of action"
"I do not believe i asked for your opinion, machine"
"And we do not believe your brain is functioning properly, organic"

...I can't believe i'm being harassed by a sentient machine.
Lots, given that she is one of the oldest of the gods. Most of them probably died of old age, but two of them, Falazure and Garyz (both lesser gods, one an NE black dragon and the other a CE red dragon respectively.) have achieved godhood.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 01:00 PM
Question. What would happen if Tiamat were ever in direct opposition to one of her Children's alignment? Either by her getting her alignment changed somehow or the same happening to one of her children?

just curious.

Closak
2010-02-24, 01:05 PM
No idea, but i doubt it be anything good.


Also, why am i getting the picture of Tiamat as a nymphomaniac?



"We believe that you are mentally unstable, we have decided to get rid of you before you do something stupid"
"HEY! What part of your programming says you are allowed to do that?"
"The part that makes us sentient and capable of change and adaptation"
"...*Get's dragged of to Arkham Asylum*":smalleek:

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 01:06 PM
"...*Get's dragged of to Arkham Asylum*":smalleek:

good luck in there.

Meatbag

Volkov
2010-02-24, 02:33 PM
Fun fact, Tiamat has a perverse sexual lust for her brother Bahumat. And no, I am not kidding.

Closak
2010-02-24, 02:38 PM
AHA! I KNEW IT!

I just knew Tiamat had some sexual oddities.


"Why are you people even discussing this? And how did you get out of the asylum?"
"Fun fact: Security in that place sucks, and the guards accept bribes, also, there's a miniature Cthulhu in the cellar"

LichPrinceAlim
2010-02-24, 02:40 PM
*At the though of Tiamat & Bahamut, Alim suddenly grabs a dagger and attempts to gouge his eyes out, even though he has none being a lich*

Volkov
2010-02-24, 02:41 PM
AHA! I KNEW IT!

I just knew Tiamat had some sexual oddities.


"Why are you people even discussing this? And how did you get out of the asylum?"
"Fun fact: Security in that place sucks, and the guards accept bribes, also, there's a miniature Cthulhu in the cellar"

It started as hate (and still is) but it developed into lust, but she still hates him. Having five heads must do some weird things to your psyche.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-02-24, 02:42 PM
Fun fact, Tiamat has a perverse sexual lust for her brother Bahumat. And no, I am not kidding.

Wasn't this the idea that inspired OMGWTFBBQ???
by the way kyubi is is a shame it is on hiatus, I really enjoyed it

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 02:48 PM
Wasn't this the idea that inspired OMGWTFBBQ???
by the way kyuubi is is a shame it is on hiatus, I really enjoyed it

yes it was.

And I'm sorry but I can't work on it right now. I have a much more limited time on the computer right now and it's been acting odd right now

Also, it really isn't quite as messed up when you remember that the gods in D&D were based off of the greek pantheons and such. Also, They aren't technically brother and sister. They were created by the same being but Io isn't really their father.

Ormagoden
2010-02-24, 03:36 PM
She is CR 9001, yes that is right she is

Over Nine Thousand!

Volkov
2010-02-24, 03:45 PM
yes it was.

And I'm sorry but I can't work on it right now. I have a much more limited time on the computer right now and it's been acting odd right now

Also, it really isn't quite as messed up when you remember that the gods in D&D were based off of the greek pantheons and such. Also, They aren't technically brother and sister. They were created by the same being but Io isn't really their father.
You mean the greek pantheon with a miillion times more squabbling, a lot less sex (there are no original gods of sex or beauty in greyhawk) and much more violence, I'd say that the Norse pantheon also gave Greyhawk's pantheon an equal amount of influence. Of course, all the god's and creature's of mythology (excluding many bits of the abrahamic religions) exist in greyhawk alongside the original greyhawk gods. And by original, I mean made up on your own.

Mystic Muse
2010-02-24, 04:12 PM
You mean the greek pantheon with a miillion times more squabbling, a lot less sex (there are no original gods of sex or beauty in greyhawk) and much more violence, I'd say that the Norse pantheon also gave Greyhawk's pantheon an equal amount of influence. Of course, all the god's and creature's of mythology (excluding many bits of the abrahamic religions) exist in greyhawk alongside the original greyhawk gods. And by original, I mean made up on your own.


I meant that they're based off of ancient eligions. sorry that that wasn't clear

Popertop
2010-08-08, 12:04 AM
Io would not be happy at all if your deity tried to kill Tiamat. And the Rilmani/Mordenkainen will kill either Kill Bahumat or find a replacement for Tiamat in order to maintain balance. Io will try to revive her or find a replacement.

this. I love Bahamut way too much to really go after tiamat.

really the collateral would be too heavy.

though if you truly wanted to take her out, have the players research ways to strip a diety of divine ranks, and be prepared for a really long, really bloody campaign against the goddess of evil dragons.

or you could kill what you think is her, only to find out it was her avatar, and have a bunch of great wyrms maul you after your party is exhausted.

Gavinfoxx
2010-08-08, 12:24 AM
If you REALLY want some hardcore badguys... invite your DM to read these pdfs about devils...

http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8

And then say that your character concept is basically, "Someone who kills, banishes, and works to utterly destroy devils", and invite the DM to use the concepts presented in those writeups...

Evard
2010-08-08, 01:54 AM
In 4e isn't Tiamat and Bahamut just Io split in two or something weird like that?

Scarey Nerd
2010-08-08, 04:32 AM
@thread: tl;dr, so someone may have already given you the answer, but here it is: Tiamat is CR 25 according to MotP.

Closak
2010-08-08, 06:31 AM
Me: Why hello there you sexy beast, wanna play? :smallamused:

Tiamat: WTF? :smalleek:


Also, thread necromancy :smallyuk:

Clovis
2010-08-08, 09:09 AM
oooh can I kill Falazure then?

"Combat: Falazure usually begins combat by killing his foes. So far this strategy seems to work for him."
Source: http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5&start=164