Rand al'Thor vs Lord Voldemort

[Zom B]

As if Voldemort doesn't have one magic-wielding child prodigy to worry about, the Dark One, desperate and running out of Forsaken to buy him time, casts his burning eye into the alternate worlds. Among them all, he finds none worthy in power to call themselves his chosen, none with a heart vile enough to commit the atrocities necessary to see that Tarmon Gai'don ends as nobody expects: With the Great Serpent slain and the Wheel shattered. He is just about to consult the remaining Forsaken when he spies a brief glimpse of a figure in a world that he had long since discounted. His heart is black stone, marbled with the red of murder. His soul, what fragments remain of it, crackles with an innate magic born of a hunger for power.
Ba'alzamon stands in wonder. This man is far more mighty than any of the Forsaken could ever hope to be.
"Voldemort." The voice echoes out of nowhere. Voldemort stops stroking Nagini's scales, and stands up, wand at the ready. Peering down the dark hallway, his lip peels up in a sneer. Seeing nothing, he turns, and there in the mirror he sees a man whose eyes burn with endless fire. "Voldemort, I can see that you are a man of power. I am the Dark One, and you, you are my new hound."
"I serve none," he wheezes at the mirror. Suddenly, a hand as insubstantial as shadow and hard as iron grasps his arm. Turning, he sees a gate has opened in the room, its edges ringed with shadowy fire. The dementor-like creature grasps his other arm and begins to pull him into the gate.
"Avada Kedavra!" he shouts, managing to maneuver his wand to point at the creature. The burst fires from the wand and strikes it true, but still the creature drags him inexorably onward. "Crucio! Crucio!" he shouts as the shadow envelops him.
Striated clouds of impossible reds, purples, and grays roil past the open balcony. A heatless flame sits in a fireplace at one end of the room. A table sits in the center, with a mirror beside him. On the table, a carved figurine resembling himself and...Harry stand facing one another. Glancing into the mirror, Voldemort sees only a fuzzy outline of himself.
"You have a nemesis, as do I," comes the voice from behind him. He turns, swearing that there was noone in the room a moment ago. A man stands by the fireplace, those furnace-like eyes peering into the depths of Voldemort's mind. Striding toward him, he picks up the figurine of Harry and raises it to his eyes, where it begins to decay like ash. "I can deliver your nemesis to you. You must but serve me."
Raising his wand, Voldemort attempts to strike down the fool that dares face him, but his mouth is unable to move. Feeling at his face in horror, he finds it sealed shut, as if it never existed. In horror, he falls to his knees, clawing at his face amid the sound of the Dark One's laughter.
"Yes, yes. You know my power now. You know that I alone have the power to deliver to you what you want. Serve me."
Staring up at the Dark One in fear and awe, Voldemort finds his mouth unsealed. "I shall...my lord."

Assumptions about Rand:
He has Callandor. Assume that Rand has just taken the Stone of Tear less than a month ago, so he is familiar with the power of the sa'angreal. The taint on Saidin is not yet cleansed, so he must be careful of how much he uses with the Sword That Is Not a Sword. Rand's insecurities about his father cancel out any sort of "Love Protection Barrier" he may have against Voldemort.

Assumptions about Voldemort:
Voldemort is at the height of his second coming to power, around the time of the events of The Deathly Hallows.

The Arena:
The Dark One sends a battallion of Trollocs and Fades against the Stone as a distraction force, drawing out the Dragon Reborn. As Rand strides down a hallway amidst the chaos of panicking people and rushing soldiers, Voldemort rounds the corner, wand at the ready.

[Douglas]

No contest, Rand toasts Voldemort without even trying. The power scales of the two series are nowhere near equal, and Callandor increases the difference by several orders of magnitude.

[Megaduck]

Assuming the power of plot doesn't protect either of them?

It depends on who see's whom first. They both have one hit kills.

Rand Balefires Voldemort
Voldemort Avada Kadavas Rand.

[Keshay]

There is one really important consideration that can vastly sway the outcome of this fight.

Does Rand's mommy really, really love him?

If so he should be just fine, even if hit with Avarda Kadarva.

[The J Pizzel]

There is one really important consideration that can vastly sway the outcome of this fight.

Does Rand's mommy really, really love him?

If so he should be just fine, even if hit with Avarda Kadarva.

Well, that wraps up this versus thread.

[Whoracle]

There is one really important consideration that can vastly sway the outcome of this fight.

Does Rand's mommy really, really love him?

If so he should be just fine, even if hit with Avarda Kadarva.

Seriously: She's dead, so it won't matter.

[TheBlackShadow]

No contest as far as I'm concerned. Rand can channel much faster than Voldemort can raise his wand and shout "Avada Kedavra", and is far more powerful besides. Even one of the less powerful channelers, like Moiraine, could probably still fry Voldemort simply because of how the two magic systems differ.

[Douglas]

It depends on who see's whom first. They both have one hit kills.
I'm pretty sure some of the defensive stuff Rand can do can block Avada Kedavra. I'm rather doubtful of the reverse, particularly if Rand's attack has Callandor's power behind it.


There is one really important consideration that can vastly sway the outcome of this fight.

Does Rand's mommy really, really love him?

If so he should be just fine, even if hit with Avarda Kadarva.
The OP rules that out in the "Assumptions about Rand" section.

1) Rand, by himself, is far more powerful than Voldemort.
2) Rand has Callandor.
3) Rand can channel his simpler attack weaves almost instantly. Voldemort has to say something. Even if he talks really quickly that's a significant delay.
4) Voldemort's most powerful attack is unblockable by anything known in his setting. Thus, he is not able to block it or anything of comparable power.
5) Rand has attacks far more powerful than Avada Kedavra, which are thus unblockable by Voldemort.
6) Rand has defenses that can block attacks comparable to or greater than Avada Kedavra. If he reacts quickly enough, and his reactions are very quick in battle, he can block anything Voldemort can do.

Rand can launch attacks Voldemort can't block, he can block Voldemort's most powerful attacks, and he can attack and defend faster than Voldemort. The only way Voldemort could possibly win is if he catches Rand completely by surprise with his guard down.

[Indon]

I'd say Rand has a definitive advantage. However, if Voldemort got crafty and tried to exploit Rand's deteriorating sanity rather than just run up and try to out-gun him (which seems likely considering how uncrafty Voldemort and most of the Forsaken are), I think he might have a chance.

[hamishspence]

Voldemort has to say something. Even if he talks really quickly that's a significant delay.

Not according to Half-Blood Prince- in that, magic can be done without speaking.

The Dumbledore/Voldemort fight scene in Order of the Phoenix also makes no mention of him speaking words as he casts spells- both he and Dumbledore seem to be casting silently, as written.

Its not a huge difference, but it does boost Voldemort slightly, when taken into account.

[Bavarian itP]

I have absolutely no idea who this "Rand al'Thor" guy is, and I didn't even read the OP. But it's a vs. thread, and he is Voldemort's opponent, so he wins. Like everybody else that is pitched against Voldemort.

[Megaduck]

I'm pretty sure some of the defensive stuff Rand can do can block Avada Kedavra. I'm rather doubtful of the reverse, particularly if Rand's attack has Callandor's power behind it.


Rand can put walls of stone and stuff in front of the Avada Kedavra. However, judging by the fight in the ministry Voldemort can instaport which means he can dodge even an attack with Callandor behind it.

Really, in Raw unadulterated power Rand wins hands down but as they both have the power to utterly destroy each other this'll become a contest of finesse, not strength. What matters is going to be actually landing a hit and they both had basically unblockable attacks.

[Whoracle]

One thing has to be taken into consideration here: Rand has a built-in kind of plot shield: his Ta'vereness. Granted, this does not always help him, but given Voldies vulnerability to all kinds of plot shield, I'd say that this'll work in rands favor.

[Sanguine]

My question is how far is the OP in the WoT cause I saw some stuff in his post that wasn't accurate, also if we take that horribly inaccurate statement that Voldemort is stronger then any of the Forsaken as truth I say Voldie wins as Moridin is probably at least equal in power to Rand(IMHO). Of course disregarding that statement Rand wins hands down they both probably could defend against there respective I-Win-Buttons but Rand's is a constant stream where as Voldemort has to re-invoke his each time that delay will be his death.

[Zom B]

My question is how far is the OP in the WoT cause I saw some stuff in his post that wasn't accurate

In the previous book Rand cleansed the taint from saidin. In the current book I'm reading, the only thing that happens is that everyone feels Rand cleansing the taint from saidin. So the Stone of Tear has been a while back, but I'm not sure what is inaccurate in my post.

[industrious]

Assuming that Voldemort is indeed at the height of his power...he still loses, even to a Rand that isn't at the height of his power/madness.

1. Saidin weaves cannot be seen save by another male channeler. Avada Kedavra can be seen(green light), and thus dodged. Rand is a blademaster-he should be familiar with how to do so. Even if he is woolly-headed. Voldemort, on the other hand, cannot tell where Rand's attacks are coming from.

2. Rand is ta'veren; random chance works in his favor. Judging from Harry's defeat of Voldemort, Voldemort cannot deal with random chance. But this argument is slightly weak, since it's meta.

3. Balefire. Assume, for a moment, that Rand balefires Voldemort but is then hit by Voldemort's AK. Because of the rules of balefire, Rand survives, as Voldemort is destroyed before Rand is killed.

4. At this point in time, the taint has yet to truly begin effecting change in Rand; while leery of using the One Power, he also doesn't hesitate to use it. Him going mad is more of a long-term problem than a short-term one.

5. Rand's Wound. This might be a reason for Voldemort to win. If Voldemort is sufficiently touched by the Dark One, Rand's wound could distract him sufficiently for Voldemort to get a shot in. Maybe.

[Sanguine]

In the previous book Rand cleansed the taint from saidin. In the current book I'm reading, the only thing that happens is that everyone feels Rand cleansing the taint from saidin. So the Stone of Tear has been a while back, but I'm not sure what is inaccurate in my post.

Possible spoiler

Wasn't by that point it well established that Ba'alzamon wasn't the Dark One but in fact Ishamael.

[Zom B]

Possible spoiler
[spoiler]


Right, that did happen. I just assume that the real Ba'alzamon/Dark One frequently looks the way Ishamael was mimicking: fire-filled eyes and mouth.

[WalkingTarget]

Right, that did happen. I just assume that the real Ba'alzamon/Dark One frequently looks the way Ishamael was mimicking: fire-filled eyes and mouth.

I found it unlikely that the "real" DO would have a human-ish appearance at all. The closest we seem to be getting is Shaidar Haran, the mega-fade, who is implied to be something like the DO's avatar in Randland.

[Megaduck]

Assuming that Voldemort is indeed at the height of his power...he still loses, even to a Rand that isn't at the height of his power/madness.

1. Saidin weaves cannot be seen save by another male channeler. Avada Kedavra can be seen(green light), and thus dodged. Rand is a blademaster-he should be familiar with how to do so. Even if he is woolly-headed. Voldemort, on the other hand, cannot tell where Rand's attacks are coming from.

I will point out that trying to dodge an Avada Kedavra is possible but it's like trying to dodge a bullet. Not really realistic.


2. Rand is ta'veren; random chance works in his favor. Judging from Harry's defeat of Voldemort, Voldemort cannot deal with random chance. But this argument is slightly weak, since it's meta.

That also means that Rand can't defeat Voldemort because Harry is the chosen one and hence the only one that can defeat him. :p

I'm sort of ignoring that Rand is Ta'varen because all that really means is that he's unkillable until the end of the book.

[Starbuck_II]

Even if Rand kill Voldemort: Violdemort revives no worst for wear because he has Horacruxes. Rand dies permanent is he dies.

Basically, it would be playing a game and having 7 lives vs 1 life. You have a better chance to beat someone with 7 tries than 1.

[Krrth]

Even if Rand kill Voldemort: Violdemort revives no worst for wear because he has Horacruxes. Rand dies permanent is he dies.

Basically, it would be playing a game and having 7 lives vs 1 life. You have a better chance to beat someone with 7 tries than 1.

Naa. Baelfire gets around that problem quite nicely. It's kinda hard to come back from the dead when you've been removed from the fabric of reality, not just in the present but in the past as well......

[Anteros]

Rand doesn't usually use Balefire unless he's worried about an enemy coming back from the dead. He probably wouldn't use it the first time he killed Voldy unless he had some type of knowledge of his abilities.

Let's be realistic though. Rand wins because he's not painfully incompetent. The real question here is why do people keep making Voldy threads as if they think he's a legitimate threat to anyone.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Easy win for Rand. His abilities are way more potent, as has been stated, he can likely use some insta-gib ability on Voldemort way before the reverse happens.

Also, its the middle of a battle, so Rand is on edge, prepared to go out and kill people. He probably has some sorts of defences up as well.

[Saph]

Rand vs Voldemort, Round 1

Voldemort: "Well, then. Let us see how you-"
*Rand channels and turns Voldemort into ice a la Fires of Heaven. It's instantaneous and there's no defence against it without being able to see the weave coming. Voldemort shatters.*
Rand: "Maybe that wand was a ter'angreal? I should have checked before turning it into ice. Oh well."

Rand vs Voldemort, Round 2 (one year later)

Voldemort: "I have returned! Even death cannot defeat me!"
Rand: "Huh?"
Voldemort: "Now, Rand al'Thor, let us see how you fare against one who has conquered death itself. For my power-"
*Rand fires a cone of monofilaments a la A Crown of Swords and turns Voldemort into a bloody sieve.*
Rand: "I wonder who that guy was? Well, better go back to memorising the names of every woman whose death I've ever caused."

Rand vs Voldemort, Round 3 (several years later)

Voldemort: "Once again, I have returned! I have developed spells of protection against your tricks, Rand al'Thor. Now you shall die!"
Rand: "I already did."
Voldemort: "So, you too have learned the art of forging Horcruxes? It shall not avail you. You will-"
*Rand hits Voldemort with a lightning bolt and burns him to ash.*
Rand: "You know, I could swear I've seen that guy before. I wonder what his name is?"

Rand vs Voldemort, Round 4 (several more years later)

Voldemort: "Prepare to meet your-"
*Rand cuts Voldemort in half with a gateway.*

Rand vs Voldemort, Round 5 (even more years later)

Voldemort: "Now-"
*Rand incinerates everything around Voldemort in a twenty-foot radius.*

Rand vs Voldemort, Round 6 (yet more years later)

Voldemort: "Damn it! Let me finish a sentence already!"
Rand: "Wait a second. Are you the same guy?"
Voldemort: "Ah, you recognise me."
Rand: "Kinda. There've been so many people trying to kill me it's a bit hard to keep track. You're not one of the Forsaken, right?"
Voldemort: "I am far greater than any mortal."
Rand: "Didn't think so. They always take a new body when they come back."
Voldemort: "My powers are- wait, what?"
Rand: "The Forsaken. They kept coming back whenever I killed them. Really annoying. I had to kill Ishamael three times before it stuck. But I thought that was all over now the Dark One's gone."
Voldemort: "You what?"
Rand: "What, you don't know? Seriously? Mat and Perrin and I beat the Dark One a few years back. Resealed the breach and everything, had to die in the process, long story. I stopped going insane though, and I've got three hot wives, so yeah, not such a bad deal. But shouldn't that mean you're permanently dead now?"
Voldemort: "I do not need the powers of the Dark One to live forever!"
Rand: "Oh. Well in that case-"
*Rand balefires Voldemort.*
Rand: " . . . Damn it. Forgot to ask him his name again. Oh well, he probably wasn't anyone important anyway."

[Silver2195]

The Harry Potter setting has a pretty low power level (according to Word of God, part of the reason for The Masquerade is that if wizards fought a "fair" war against Muggles, Muggles would win). Rand is a Mary Sue who can make people Deader Than Dead. This isn't even close.

Edit: Did I use too many trope names?

[Kneenibble]

Rand al'Thor is not a Mary Sue. :annoyed:

[Dallas-Dakota]

And so, whoever Mr. Tweety will side with, will win.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Of course not. He's just an incredibly powerful person with no weaknesses who isn't a Gary Stu. :smallwink:

Although I think Saph just /thread.

[Kneenibble]

No............ weaknesses..........?
You have read the books, my dear?

But yes, yes Saph did.


And so, whoever Mr. Tweety will side with, will win.
:smallsmile:
I usually just vote that the fight turn into softcore porn, like with the Sauron vs. Voldemort thread(s).

[Da'Shain]

Of course not. He's just an incredibly powerful person with no weaknesses who isn't a Gary Stu. :smallwink:...

Rand al'Thor has no weaknesses?

Have you even read the books?

The fact that he can annihilate someone from a lower power setting doesn't mean he has no weaknesses. By a long shot.

[ZeroNumerous]

Of course not. He's just an incredibly powerful person with no weaknesses who isn't a Gary Stu. :smallwink:

Although I think Saph just /thread.

Well, I dunno about going blind as a weakness. I mean, obviously every blind guy is just awesome. Or nearly vomiting when using his powers. Ya, critically weak constitution is just overpowered. Lets not talk about his tenuous grasp on sanity, a crippling inability to physically harm women, a guilt complex that would completely crush him when/if Moiraine shows back up or the blind-fury that overtakes him when loved ones are threatened.

Ya. Rand's weaknesses? Obviously non-existent. [/sarcasm]

That aside: Rand, as a character, is not hard to defeat. A single knife in the dark would completely ruin him, and not because it stabs him. Kill Min, Elaine, Mat, Perrin, Nynaeve or anyone who is remotely close to him. The boy's a house of cards glued together with spit and prayers. After all, Moiraine's death rendered him inoperative for a week or more.

The issue is that Rand's narrative weight, being as he is the main hero, is aimed toward him winning. That means he will win, for the plot demands it.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Of course not. He's just an incredibly powerful person with no weaknesses who isn't a Gary Stu. :smallwink:

Off the top of my head:
He's more or less insane.
He's developed Will Not Harm A Woman to epically stupid proportions. ALso, he's insane and very obsessive compulsive about the whole 'reciting the names of dead women' that he's more or less paralysed by guilt whenever he sees a woman.
Nobody wants to be his ally. Not really.
Did I mention that he's got Lews Therin/some kind of split personality/ghost stuck in his head making him quite, quite insane.
There're more than a dozen plots to kill or otherwise incapacitate him going on consecutively.
I think he lost a hand in the last book.
He's surprisingly incompetent. I've lost track of the number of times that other people've had to step in to save his ta'veren butt.
Using saidin renders him very ill for short amounts of time. Even though the taint is gone.
Insanity? It deserves to be mentioned again.
Little Sister kindly spoiled the last book and apparently he's going blind.
He's got this whole guilt thing over anybody he remotely knows getting even so much as a scratch on him.
Plus that whole Recite the Names of Women to Myself thing.


Although I think Saph just /thread.

True.

[Silver2195]

I admit it: I didn't actually read The Wheel of Time and was just parroting Limyaael's opinion.

[Fan]

Wait.. Inability to harm women..

So, if Voldemort finds this out... and creates the equivalent to a Sex Change spell. He wins?:smalltongue:

[industrious]

No. Because


In the latest novel, he kills two women, breaks a ton of his promises, balefires an entire fortress filled with people, and nearly destroys the world. By nearly, I mean he could have but didn't go through with it.


Pretty hard to come back via Horucrux if the latter happens, doesn't it?

[Fan]

No. Because


In the latest novel, he kills two women, breaks a ton of his promises, balefires an entire fortress filled with people, and nearly destroys the world. By nearly, I mean he could have but didn't go through with it.


Pretty hard to come back via Horucrux if the latter happens, doesn't it?

Erm. That sounds like Voldy wouldn't even be ALONE in hunting down this guy...

Hell, if that happened to my world, I'd be out there with a Torch, Pitch fork, and a prayer myself to kill the man in his sleep.

[ZeroNumerous]

No. Because


In the latest novel, he kills two women, breaks a ton of his promises, balefires an entire fortress filled with people, and nearly destroys the world. By nearly, I mean he could have but didn't go through with it.


Pretty hard to come back via Horucrux if the latter happens, doesn't it?

Not terribly applicable because

He was insane with self-hatred when he did it. Remember, he was already utterly disgusted with himself after being brain-screwed into almost choking Min to death. Then dad 'betrayed' him and he tried to murder his own father. After that, he almost decided to just throw it all away.

EDIT:
Little Sister kindly spoiled the last book and apparently he's going blind.

Just for the little sister bit: He teleports(Well, Travels) to Dragonmount after Tam(you know, his dad) is convinced by Cadsuane to try and talk him down from the raging insanity. His reaction to this is the same as any obviously insane person's: He rages and tries to kill Daddy. Disgusted with himself, he decides to end it all by drawing much more saidin than he can possibly hold. This would have caused a cataclysmic explosion which would have destroyed the world. Hint: He doesn't die.

Also: It's a versus thread. I assumed spoilers were unnecessary.

[industrious]

Well, I'd think that he's realized the folly of not harming women no matter what.
And I was showing, once more, Rand's relative power level compared to Voldemort. Voldie ain't even close.

[Soras Teva Gee]

In anything approaching direct combat Rand reduces Voldemort to a fine paste in seconds every time. So either Voldemort somehow surprises Rand at some point or Rand figures out the guy can revive and proceeds to hunt down Horcruxes.

[Krrth]

Erm. That sounds like Voldy wouldn't even be ALONE in hunting down this guy...

Hell, if that happened to my world, I'd be out there with a Torch, Pitch fork, and a prayer myself to kill the man in his sleep.

There's a problem with that. If he wins, he kills something like 80-90% of the worlds population, rearranges continents, and the like.

If he loses, evil wins and takes over all reality, in every multiverse.


Kinda sucks either way.

[ZeroNumerous]

Kinda sucks either way.

Nah. If Rand wins you get reincarnated next time.

If the Dark One wins, the wheel and all future/potential 'yous' get the axe too.