Which 4e books are more necessary than others?

[slyfox99]

Ok, here is my problem... Money is definitely an object, as I am on unemployment at the moment. I am collecting all the 4e books and have the PHB and PHB2, the DMG, MM1 and 2, Open Grave, and Forgotten Realms Campaign book and Player's Guide. I have PHB3 on pre-order from Amazon and Manual of the Planes is on its way.

What else would you guys consider essential? I am DMing so I am probably looking at DMG2 next, but is it essential? Is there stuff in there that you guys couldn't have figured out for yourselves?

I might get Arcane Power to check out the Warlock Vestige Path, but all in all, I am thinking D&D already has enough choices, probably too many... (My players all made their characters from PHB1 and when I got 2, they all wanted to scrap the characters and play Devas...

I am open to your ideas, folks...

[rayne_dragon]

In descending order of what I consider essential:

Player's Handbook - can't really play without one
Monster Manual - easiest way to find monsters to use

Adventurer's Vault - needed to expand on the limited magic items in the PHB
Player's Handbook 2 - extra options are always nice
Arcane/Martial/Divine/Primal Power - expand on various classes to a great degree, Arcane power was so nice for my wizard.

DMG 1 & 2 - Mostly not needed if you've DMed before, but do present useful information rules-wise
Setting Books like Open Grave, Manual of the Planes, etc. Nice for background info and setting, but doesn't contribute much ruleswise
Martial Power 2/Aventurer's Vault 2 - getting into the too many options situation
Monster Manual 2 - one gives you enough monsters, beyond that you can make up your own

[Asbestos]

Need 4e material but short on money? Good news, for $9.99 or whatever you can get a 1 month DDI subscription and download the Character Builder and the Adventure Tools. These will give you the tools to make characters using any published 4e material and it will give you access to any published 4e monster (respectively)

Honestly, it isn't a bad deal. Oh, and once you have the current stuff, you don't need to renew your subscription until you actually feel a need to get whatever new stuff is out. (I think some people get maybe... 3 or 4 months a year just to snag what they want and not pay for the annual subscription).

[Nightson]

Get DMG2. Manual of the Planes, Underdark, The Plane Below were all stellar books in my estimation, I would definitely recommend them even on a tight budget.

With books that give more player options, when DDI isn't in play I say if they want it they can buy it.

[Kaun]

In descending order of what I consider essential:

Player's Handbook - can't really play without one
Monster Manual - easiest way to find monsters to use

Adventurer's Vault - needed to expand on the limited magic items in the PHB
Player's Handbook 2 - extra options are always nice
Arcane/Martial/Divine/Primal Power - expand on various classes to a great degree, Arcane power was so nice for my wizard.

DMG 1 & 2 - Mostly not needed if you've DMed before, but do present useful information rules-wise
Setting Books like Open Grave, Manual of the Planes, etc. Nice for background info and setting, but doesn't contribute much ruleswise
Martial Power 2/Aventurer's Vault 2 - getting into the too many options situation
Monster Manual 2 - one gives you enough monsters, beyond that you can make up your own

This is fairly much what i would think too.

With the Exception of

Arcane/Martial/Divine/Primal Power Martial Power 2

Let your players who want to use stuff from these books buy them if your short on cash.

[Kylarra]

Need 4e material but short on money? Good news, for $9.99 or whatever you can get a 1 month DDI subscription and download the Character Builder and the Adventure Tools. These will give you the tools to make characters using any published 4e material and it will give you access to any published 4e monster (respectively)

Honestly, it isn't a bad deal. Oh, and once you have the current stuff, you don't need to renew your subscription until you actually feel a need to get whatever new stuff is out. (I think some people get maybe... 3 or 4 months a year just to snag what they want and not pay for the annual subscription).Yeah this is what I'd suggest too. It's a little less handy for random perusal, but a lot more handy for actual character generation.

[Kurald Galain]

Ok, here is my problem... Money is definitely an object, as I am on unemployment at the moment.

The main question is, do you want fluff books or crunch books.

Neither DMG is essential: they both contain nice suggestions if you're new to DM'ing, but if you've been DM'ing for awhile they will tell you absolutely nothing you didn't already know.

There are a few builds that greatly benefit from the *Power books (notably paladins, and beastmaster rangers), but overall that's mostly a player's book rather than a DM's book.

[Swordgleam]

You have more than enough. I just have PHB1&2, MM1 and the DMG1, and I do fine. One of my players wanted more options, so he bought a bunch of the Arcane/Divine/etc Power books. Those are really for players to buy.

[slyfox99]

Ok, thanks for the help, folks; I appreciate it. My current storyline is going to have a lot to do with the Primordials, so I am starting to think the Elemental Chaos book might be next. Does it have a lot of information on them?

[Oracle_Hunter]

Buy PHB I, DMG & get a one month DDI subscription.

DDI Subscription will cover all X Power Books and Adventurer's Vaults (Character Builder) and all Monster Manuals & Monster Splatbooks (Adventuring Tools) for $9.99.

That's all you need. Once you install & update those programs on your computer, they're yours.

[TheEmerged]

Need 4e material but short on money? Good news, for $9.99 or whatever you can get a 1 month DDI subscription and download the Character Builder and the Adventure Tools. These will give you the tools to make characters using any published 4e material and it will give you access to any published 4e monster (respectively)

Honestly, it isn't a bad deal. Oh, and once you have the current stuff, you don't need to renew your subscription until you actually feel a need to get whatever new stuff is out. (I think some people get maybe... 3 or 4 months a year just to snag what they want and not pay for the annual subscription).

This point can't be seconded hard or loud enough. For $10, you get everything useful out of about 6 books and a lot of what's useful out of two or three others. If you're an experienced DM, the "fluff" you can probably make up yourself as fast as you can read it :smallcool:

The *only* books I'd say are actual must-buys are PHB1, MM1 and *maybe* the DMG & MM2. Everything else you can get either from buying one month of DDI or the periodic errata (such as the Stealth change they've reprinted in half the books).

[rayne_dragon]

Ok, thanks for the help, folks; I appreciate it. My current storyline is going to have a lot to do with the Primordials, so I am starting to think the Elemental Chaos book might be next. Does it have a lot of information on them?

Not a lot from what I've read, although I've mostl just skimmed a copy. It seems to talk more about other residents of the Elemental Chaos - Efreets, Djinn, Slaad, and various elementals. It still might be good if you're planning on sending adventurer's there.

[Ichneumon]

I'd say, if you're a DM, buy Dungeon Delves. It's one of the best books I bought, ever. I'd even suggest you could use it instead of the MM.

[tcrudisi]

Need 4e material but short on money? Good news, for $9.99 or whatever you can get a 1 month DDI subscription and download the Character Builder and the Adventure Tools. These will give you the tools to make characters using any published 4e material and it will give you access to any published 4e monster (respectively)

Honestly, it isn't a bad deal. Oh, and once you have the current stuff, you don't need to renew your subscription until you actually feel a need to get whatever new stuff is out. (I think some people get maybe... 3 or 4 months a year just to snag what they want and not pay for the annual subscription).

+1 to this. For one month, you can "purchase" Arcane Power, Martial Power, Divine Power, Primal Power, Adventurer's Vault.... etc. It's such a wonderful deal. And those books are all very nice (and important) to have.

[Nightson]

Ok, thanks for the help, folks; I appreciate it. My current storyline is going to have a lot to do with the Primordials, so I am starting to think the Elemental Chaos book might be next. Does it have a lot of information on them?

Well, it talks about them. But it is generally about all the locations and adventures throughout the plane. Definitely worth it if you plane to have characters travel there imo.

[Kurald Galain]

+1 to this. For one month, you can "purchase" Arcane Power, Martial Power, Divine Power, Primal Power, Adventurer's Vault.... etc. It's such a wonderful deal.
People keep talking about how great a deal this is... I wonder if it undercuts WOTC's profits? I don't suppose anyone has figures on that, though.

I recall a WOTC guy stating that for 3E, the only book they made substantial profit on was the PHB, and everything else was just to boost sales of the PHB. That may be the case again, because regardless of splatbooks or online subscriptions, every player seems to buy a PHB anyway.

[Saph]

In descending order of what I consider essential:

Player's Handbook - can't really play without one
Monster Manual - easiest way to find monsters to use

Adventurer's Vault - needed to expand on the limited magic items in the PHB
Player's Handbook 2 - extra options are always nice
Arcane/Martial/Divine/Primal Power - expand on various classes to a great degree, Arcane power was so nice for my wizard.

DMG 1 & 2 - Mostly not needed if you've DMed before, but do present useful information rules-wise
Setting Books like Open Grave, Manual of the Planes, etc. Nice for background info and setting, but doesn't contribute much ruleswise
Martial Power 2/Aventurer's Vault 2 - getting into the too many options situation
Monster Manual 2 - one gives you enough monsters, beyond that you can make up your own

I'd second this.

The only book apart from the PHB I always brought along to sessions was the MM, just because when you're DMing it's a lot easier to have the stats on paper that you can flip to.

The DMG isn't necessary and neither are any of the other books. Besides, unless you're lucky enough to be playing at your house, you'll run into weight issues quickly. 4e books are heavy. :P

[Shazbot79]

I recall a WOTC guy stating that for 3E, the only book they made substantial profit on was the PHB, and everything else was just to boost sales of the PHB. That may be the case again, because regardless of splatbooks or online subscriptions, every player seems to buy a PHB anyway.

That was Ryan Dancey I think.

Anyway, I have a D&Di subscription which is a good, cheap way to keep up on all the latest character options. ($10 bucks a month vs. $30 a month for source books)

If I had known the character builder and monster builder would be so convenient, I would have just blown off the player books and splurged on the flavor books (Manual of the Planes, Draconomicon, etc.)

Anyway, all of the base rules are contained in the original Core 3, so those are essential.

Beyond that, I would say, in order:

PHB2&3
MM2&3
DMG2 (great advice contained herein...even for experienced GM's)

Class Books (Martial Power, Divine, Arcane, Primal, etc.)
Flavor Books (Draconomicon, Plane Below, Open Grave, etc.)
Dungeon Delves

Also, I would note that in the fall, WotC is releasing a 4E rules compendium with all of the updated errata printed therein...for pretty cheap too.

[slyfox99]

Has anyone read the Dragonborn or Tiefling book? I've seen them offered for sale but have not as much as even skimmed them.

[Lyth]

Ok, thanks for the help, folks; I appreciate it. My current storyline is going to have a lot to do with the Primordials, so I am starting to think the Elemental Chaos book might be next. Does it have a lot of information on them?

If I recall, chapter 5 of the Primal Power book deals a lot with the Primal Spirits and the Primordials. That's off the top of my head, though, and I'm away from my book - you may want to double check with someone else.

[rayne_dragon]

The Dragonborn book is kinda cool. Nice fluff, some paragon paths, and more feats for your breath weapon than you could ever take. I don't think I saw any non-breath related feats, which was a disappointment to me.


People keep talking about how great a deal this is... I wonder if it undercuts WOTC's profits? I don't suppose anyone has figures on that, though.

I recall a WOTC guy stating that for 3E, the only book they made substantial profit on was the PHB, and everything else was just to boost sales of the PHB. That may be the case again, because regardless of splatbooks or online subscriptions, every player seems to buy a PHB anyway.

This makes me wonder if their main profit is from DDI in this case. It probably has a higher profit margin than books and even if people only subscribe once or twice a year for a single month, they could still bring in a fair amount over the lifespan of 4e. Plus, it seems like a lot of gamers I know tend to buy the books they want regardless of if they can get the rules cheaper, so I wouldn't be surprised if DDI doesn't undercut an individual books profit margins much, if at all.

[hamishspence]

Has anyone read the Dragonborn or Tiefling book? I've seen them offered for sale but have not as much as even skimmed them.

According to this:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/253830000

the tiefling book isn't out till June- Am I missing something?

[Oracle_Hunter]

People keep talking about how great a deal this is... I wonder if it undercuts WOTC's profits? I don't suppose anyone has figures on that, though.

I recall a WOTC guy stating that for 3E, the only book they made substantial profit on was the PHB, and everything else was just to boost sales of the PHB. That may be the case again, because regardless of splatbooks or online subscriptions, every player seems to buy a PHB anyway.
Well, since the Rules Compendium isn't resident on your computer, you'll need the PHB I for the actual rules :smalltongue:

But I don't think it undercuts their profits - in fact, I think DDI boosts them. They don't have to keep a back catalog (or even print many books up front) and still they get a continual revenue stream from (some) players and the occasional $10 from people who would otherwise pirate or borrow the books instead.

Also: the reason I cited the DMG is because it still have useful information on things like Traps, Poisons, and Diseases. Plus DMG 42, though you can (mostly) get that free from the Errata.

[Asbestos]

According to this:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/253830000

the tiefling book isn't out till June- Am I missing something?
It is my guess they are talking about the books from Goodman Games.

Come... March 15th or so I'll be able to post a side by side comparison of WotC's Dragonborn book and GG's Dragonborn book. I think it'll end up with WotC's book being better overall, but the GG book containing more interesting breath weapon feats.

[slyfox99]

I know where I got confused about the tiefling book. I was looking on Amazon, where you can pre-order every book due out between now and June. You won't get them any faster, though, so pere-ordering probably isn't worth it.

[tcrudisi]

People keep talking about how great a deal this is... I wonder if it undercuts WOTC's profits? I don't suppose anyone has figures on that, though.

I recall a WOTC guy stating that for 3E, the only book they made substantial profit on was the PHB, and everything else was just to boost sales of the PHB. That may be the case again, because regardless of splatbooks or online subscriptions, every player seems to buy a PHB anyway.

True, but WotC undercut their own profits with 3.x, seeing as how they would outsource the books and let anyone make splatbooks. Now they are making all the splatbooks themselves, so I imagine they are breaking even on the splatbooks, making a profit on the corebooks, and making a profit on DDI. Pretty smart, I think.