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View Full Version : PF Arcane Archer build (hints for things missed)



BobVosh
2010-02-26, 02:10 AM
Going to try AA now that they decided that people who run AA may actually want to cast a spell now and again. Yay for caster progression!

Here is my current build: Ranger 1, Wizard 5, Eldritch Knight 4, AA 6.
Bab: 13, Casting:12, level 16. Not bad, not great from 3.5. Seems to be the most optimal I could get BAB/CL.

Full Elf, as dex and int seem somewhat important. I chose ranger for fluff reasons of tracking, not much difference between it and fighter for 1 level. Also I like skills.

Prior to race and level bumps:
STR:14
Dex:17
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:7
Cha:7

Feats are:
1: Pointblank
3: Weapon focus (prereq)
5: Precise Shot
7: Rapid Shot
9: Deadly Aim
11: Quick Draw
13: Vital Strike
15: Improved Precise Shot
Eldritch Knight: Manyshot

Humorously I made this a couple weeks before I read about the switch Hitter from Treant. Basically similar, I even got a couple scrolls of giant form for when I got melee.

My main weapon is arcane bond, +22/+22/+17/+12 for 3D8+36/1D8+18 after the vital strike shot & manyshot. +1 (GMW to 3), Brilliant energy, keen

Second weapon is +1 (GMW to 3) Undead & golem bane, ghost touch

Melee weapon is +1 Keen Adamantine Greatsword. May or may not GMW it as well.

He is allowing limited spells from SpC, so I have greater mage armor and superior resistance from there now. Haven't looked at spells selection beyond that.

AC is 36. (10+6 armor+4 shield+8 dex+4 natural (amulet)+4 deflection(ring))
Jumps to 41 with my most likely short term buff of elemental body II (air) (+4 size to dex and +3 size to natural armor).

School is Divination, giving up necromancy and enchantment. Always acting in the surprise round with a +10 init seemed like a good move.

So I'm asking if there is a better build for AA within Pathfinder, including the adventure path and campaign setting. Also should I change my feat selection, or anything else that just seems subpar to what I could do for a AA.

Also how does vital strike + manyshot work? It looks like you can double both arrows damage (4D8 instead of my assumed 3D8) Only +4.5 damage, but every bonus is nice to an archer.

Oblivious
2010-02-26, 03:51 AM
Vital strike only works when you use a standard action to attack (and thus isn't really worthwhile for an archer) while manyshot only works with full attacks, so they don't interact at all.

Edit: It's generally better to put properties like Bane and Ghost Touch onto arrows instead of a second bow. It's cheaper (depending on how many you use, I suppose), and the effects will stack with your primary bow.

BobVosh
2010-02-26, 10:08 AM
The first bow is brilliant energy so it can't harm constructs and undead. So the second one exists to kill them alone.

Full-Round Action: Full attack
Vital Strike: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage.

We read this as your attack at your highest BAB does 2x Weapon damage. We could be wrong per RAW, however consider it a house rule thereafter. Otherwise it is completely a wasted feat.

Harperfan7
2010-02-26, 05:49 PM
What about oozes, elementals, and plants?

huh?

HUH?

BobVosh
2010-02-27, 12:36 AM
What about oozes, elementals, and plants?

huh?

HUH?

A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects.

I can use a brilliant e weapon on them :P

Harperfan7
2010-02-27, 12:57 AM
I was thinking critical hits...

Elementals are considered organic?

Swiftest
2010-02-27, 01:11 AM
Hmmm. First off, unfortunately Oblivious was right about Vital Strike, and while I do see the reasoning behind your house rule, I think that makes the feat way, way too good. Even taking it for how it's supposed to work (only on a standard action attack) it's still useful, as there will *definitely* be times when you'll want to move and just make one attack. Whenever one of those times occurs, this feat is useful. I'd probably drop it though, it's not *that* useful to your particular build since most of the time you'll want to be full attacking to darken the sky with arrows.

Speaking of filling the sky with arrows, lets look at what you'd get if you dropped those 4 levels of EK and took 4 more levels of AA:

1) Same caster level (the one level lost at 9 evens out with the first level you lost taking EK 1).
2) Same BAB.
3) Same HD.
4) More skill points.
5) Elemental Burst Arrows
6) Hail of Arrows (One shot at every enemy in range once per day? this can't be bad)
7) Aligned Arrows (2d6 bonus damage against evil from Holy? On every arrow? yes plz?)
8) Arrow of Death -- so it's a ****ty save or die, it's still got it's uses -- mage slaying comes to mind. Also bear in mind that it's one of the few legit save or dies left in pathfinder -- most of the others have been nerfed down to just doing lots of damage on a failed save.

I think the list of advantages is pretty clear -- and you get all that for the loss of only one (1) bonus feat. A feat, btw, that you could easily get by switching that ranger level to a fighter level. You'd have slightly fewer class skills and less skill points at level 1, but lets face it -- the way the pathfinder skill system works, that's no major hit, and most of those will be class skills anyway from AA (stealth, survival) and you'd get more skills points overall.

In summary, I think you'd be better off dropping EK and taking a fighter level over ranger if you really must have that extra feat. Then have your subsequent levels be in EK, if you really want. If the game goes to 20 you may end up losing one more bonus feat, but imo it's a small price to pay for what you get. Hail of Arrows alone is potentially *very* strong. Let us know what you decide! =p.

Swiftest
2010-02-27, 09:42 AM
I should add a few things:

First off, vital strike is better the more feats you can invest in it as you get more bang for that one attack, but it just doesn't look like your build is likely to have the feats to get there. Imo you should also look into Arcane Strike, depending on how you use your swift actions. This could get you a scaling + 1 to +4 bonus to damage per arrow -- right now it would be +3. This is worth more than one extra d8's worth of damage from your bow on one shot a round (and really you're forced to not be able to shoot more than once with this, too).

If it were me I would drop quick draw and vital strike and take arcane strike and improved initiative. You have a good initiative bonus now but higher is always better when it comes to initiative, going first is just that huge, particularly when you have caster levels.

I can't tell if you're just leaving out mundane magical gear of if you've really had to cut things out in order to afford two such expensive weapons. Assuming the latter, I would seriously consider sacrificing or paring down what you've spent on weapons in order to get some basic stat boosting items such as belt of dex and headband of int. If I were you I would consider sacrificing the uberness of my bow a little bit in order to afford these things, as you'll be more useful more of the time with them (dex in particular). I'd even consider switching out brilliant energy because as stupid good as it is, it's soooo expensive and there are great things you can be doing with that money -- potentially greater than ignoring armor. If you've a spare feat, even dropping keen and taking improved crit might be worth it as this will save you an absurd amount of gold. Alternatively (and preferably) you could leave your main bow alone and consider making your backup anti undead/construct bow just, say, a +1 bow to save cash. Bam, you now have Overall getting some stat boosting items will help you more. To save you action economy, if you can afford them you may even want boots of speed. Having to spend a round casting haste is annoying, but you definitely want to be hasted, preferably on the first round so you can unload arrows on everything nearby before people begin running for cover and throwing up wind walls and such =p.

If you *ever* expect to be in melee combat ... then a melee weapon I really recommend that you consider getting is a spell storing weapon. It's only a +1 bonus. Being able to whip a vampiric touch or a slow or a dispel magic into your enemies' face while beating him down with your sword as part of a full attack is ... just pretty great. Probably greater than having your weapon be made of adamantine, imo. It's so great that it should really be considered as a backup option for an archery focused character with decent spellcasting levels. It's really too bad this isn't available for ranged weapons =X. Best of all, you can store this spell in your weapon indefinitely and then pull it out just when you need it, be that days or even weeks after it was stored. A dispel magic at the right time can be pretty clutch, and this way you can do it *twice* between your arcane bonded item and your spell storing blade, without even having to worry about spell slots.

PinkysBrain
2010-02-27, 12:44 PM
Since you can use SPC you should really get UMD, Hunter's Mercy is just that good.

It's a shame that PF retconned the rules compendium again and put a minimum standard action on scroll/wand use (yay for progress, sigh). Otherwise Arrow Storm would also be a wonderful spell with a wand/scroll.

BobVosh
2010-02-27, 01:42 PM
*snip*In summary, I think you'd be better off dropping EK and taking a fighter level over ranger if you really must have that extra feat. Then have your subsequent levels be in EK, if you really want. If the game goes to 20 you may end up losing one more bonus feat, but imo it's a small price to pay for what you get. Hail of Arrows alone is potentially *very* strong. Let us know what you decide! =p.

I did it for prereq purposes.

AA:Race: Elf or half-elf.
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.

EK: Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells

I wanted higher level spells. So I went 1 ranger, 5 wizard which is 3 BAB. I admittedly only needed 3 levels EK, but I went with a 4th for...some reason. Probably be best to scale that back 1 level and go with one more AA.


I should add a few things:

First off, vital strike is better the more feats you can invest in it as you get more bang for that one attack, but it just doesn't look like your build is likely to have the feats to get there. Imo you should also look into Arcane Strike, depending on how you use your swift actions. This could get you a scaling + 1 to +4 bonus to damage per arrow -- right now it would be +3. This is worth more than one extra d8's worth of damage from your bow on one shot a round (and really you're forced to not be able to shoot more than once with this, too).
Hmm. Good point, when I looked at it I thought it was a enhancement bonus. I'll switch vital for it.


If it were me I would drop quick draw and vital strike and take arcane strike and improved initiative. You have a good initiative bonus now but higher is always better when it comes to initiative, going first is just that huge, particularly when you have caster levels.
Quick draw is for some flavor reason, plus I have rods tied to my belt for quick draw reasons. Vital is replaced with arcane strike though :D


I can't tell if you're just leaving out mundane magical gear of if you've really had to cut things out in order to afford two such expensive weapons. Assuming the latter, I would seriously consider sacrificing or paring down what you've spent on weapons in order to get some basic stat boosting items such as belt of dex and headband of int. If I were you I would consider sacrificing the uberness of my bow a little bit in order to afford these things, as you'll be more useful more of the time with them (dex in particular). I'd even consider switching out brilliant energy because as stupid good as it is, it's soooo expensive and there are great things you can be doing with that money -- potentially greater than ignoring armor. If you've a spare feat, even dropping keen and taking improved crit might be worth it as this will save you an absurd amount of gold. Alternatively (and preferably) you could leave your main bow alone and consider making your backup anti undead/construct bow just, say, a +1 bow to save cash. Bam, you now have Overall getting some stat boosting items will help you more. To save you action economy, if you can afford them you may even want boots of speed. Having to spend a round casting haste is annoying, but you definitely want to be hasted, preferably on the first round so you can unload arrows on everything nearby before people begin running for cover and throwing up wind walls and such =p.
I did leave out all my gear except weapons. I have +6 to each physical stat, +4 int, ring of protection from evil, ring of deflection 4, glove of arrow snaring, helm of adaptation, lots of arrows, backup weapons, standard adventurer junk, permanency see invisibility, tongues, and darkvision. The brilliant energy weapon is the arcane bond weapon, so it cost 1/2 to enchant. So both bows are the same cost.


If you *ever* expect to be in melee combat ... then a melee weapon I really recommend that you consider getting is a spell storing weapon. It's only a +1 bonus. Being able to whip a vampiric touch or a slow or a dispel magic into your enemies' face while beating him down with your sword as part of a full attack is ... just pretty great. Probably greater than having your weapon be made of adamantine, imo. It's so great that it should really be considered as a backup option for an archery focused character with decent spellcasting levels. It's really too bad this isn't available for ranged weapons =X. Best of all, you can store this spell in your weapon indefinitely and then pull it out just when you need it, be that days or even weeks after it was stored. A dispel magic at the right time can be pretty clutch, and this way you can do it *twice* between your arcane bonded item and your spell storing blade, without even having to worry about spell slots.

Adamantine didn't cost much, and I did it as a "why not" thing. Regular dispel magic got pretty heavily nerfed in PF. Although the no CL cap is nice. I'll see what I can cut to afford the extra 6000 for spell storing.

Thanks much so far :D

PinkysBrain
2010-02-27, 01:55 PM
Oops, you're ranger ... guess you don't need UMD to use that wand of hunter's mercy. Some scrolls of Find the Gap might also be handy for buffing before important fights ... first arrow every round hits touch AC.