Flail Discipline?

[imp_fireball]

I've been watching Spike TV's greatest warriors and learned about how the knight's most prolific weapon was what they called the 'morning star' (but was actually a flail; really, I don't know the difference between a mace and a morning star... ah well) - mainly because it was very difficult to avoid and almost impossible to wield without the full plate that knights usually wore, since it'd usually be accidentally bumping up against the body a whole lot. In this way, a knight could pretty much go nuts and it would be almost suicidal to confront such a warrior with a sword.

D&D doesn't encourage much use of the flail.

Maybe we could change that with a flail focused discipline? Anyone have any ideas?

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs7/300W/i/2005/252/8/1/Flail_of_the_Witch_King_by_LordofIZAN.jpg
Yah, flails are pretty cool.

[Zom B]

A flail is two pieces of wood (or a piece of wood connected to numerous thin rods) connected by a short chain or hinge - basically the western world's version of nunchaku. It started as a peasant tool for threshing wheat, but worked fairly well as a weapon. A military flail is the evolution of this tool as an intended weapon. One of the pieces of wood was replaced with a metal rod, which evolved to have spikes along its length, which then evolved to a spiky ball.

A morningstar is a mace with spikes, usually resembling a metal ball from which conical spikes protrude.

A mace is essentially a metal club. It may have "spikes" resulting from pointed flanges, but it does not normally have conical spikes.

[ericgrau]

It's good at tripping and disarming without losing much damage.

[Zom B]

It's good at tripping and disarming without losing much damage.

Actually, it's fairly poor at tripping. Or rather, it's good at tripping, but it's a poor choice to trip with. Because of the shortness of the chain in most models and the shortness of the handle, you'd have to bend way down to wrap it around a foot or leg. Now, disarming it is excellent at, because the chain easily wraps around most hafts and blades, although whether the opponent can just pull the blade out limits this somewhat.

Another benefit is the extra force imparted via centripetal force that allows it to have a greater chance of penetration, although the unpredictability of striking on a spike or flange can limit the damage. The chain allows it to wrap around objects such as a shield when striking.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Actually, it's fairly poor at tripping. Or rather, it's good at tripping, but it's a poor choice to trip with. Because of the shortness of the chain in most models and the shortness of the handle, you'd have to bend way down to wrap it around a foot or leg. Now, disarming it is excellent at, because the chain easily wraps around most hafts and blades, although whether the opponent can just pull the blade out limits this somewhat.

Another benefit is the extra force imparted via centripetal force that allows it to have a greater chance of penetration, although the unpredictability of striking on a spike or flange can limit the damage. The chain allows it to wrap around objects such as a shield when striking.

I believe he referred to the D&D flail getting a bonus to trip and to disarm, not the historical ussage

[DragoonWraith]

My Chthonic Serpent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131567) discipline has Flail as one of its few non-exotic associated weapons, and has a number of maneuvers that focus on disarming or tripping. Several others that deal with grappling, which maybe makes less sense with a Flail than other things, but still works.

[Zom B]

I believe he referred to the D&D flail getting a bonus to trip and to disarm, not the historical ussage

Ah. I thought he was fishing for ideas and inspiration for new maneuvers beyond what the flail is already known for.

[Shyftir]

Disclaimer: This post has less to do with home-brew issues as it does with me being a blunt force trauma weapon fanboy.

Yeah, IRL flails are so nasty that its very difficult to make a safe for full contact foam version. (At least one that actually has real weight to it.)

They have so much torque from that extra momentum that they can't help but hit hard.

Real flails: If you use one without armor you pretty much have to do away with the spikes. But really in the original use, that of being swung from horseback down at an enemy... yeah the skull-crushing weight was where the power was really at.

[imp_fireball]

Real flails: If you use one without armor you pretty much have to do away with the spikes. But really in the original use, that of being swung from horseback down at an enemy... yeah the skull-crushing weight was where the power was really at.

Exactly. I want some flail discipline focused on knocking the hell out of enemies.

For fantasy inspiration - In warcraft 1, the human knight used a flail.

Also, the flail I put in the OP was a nice replica of the flail of Angmar from the third LotR movie. Angmar's flail is fuggin' huge and nothing like the dinky ones used in real life (or at least what you might see in a museum or on wikipedia).

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Impfireball/Bardiche-1.jpg
Hilariously childish when compared to bardiches (essentially great axe/scythe/pole arm hybrids). :smalltongue:

EDIT: Calm down guys, it's fixed. :smallsmile:

[DragoonWraith]

You should spoiler that, it's huge.

Anyway, I take it then that Chthonic Serpent wasn't what you wanted?

[imp_fireball]

You should spoiler that, it's huge.

Anyway, I take it then that Chthonic Serpent wasn't what you wanted?

Enhancing the flail in D&D terms, no, not really.

Most people jump for the spiked chain for that anyway. :P

[DragoonWraith]

Uhm, what? I'm sorry, I really didn't understand what you just said. What do you mean?

[Godskook]

Based on experience from boffer play, flails have a big use at getting around shields. Perhaps make flails ignore shield bonuses to AC?

[DragoonWraith]

Hehe, Chthonic Serpent has two maneuvers for that, too.

[imp_fireball]

Uhm, what? I'm sorry, I really didn't understand what you just said. What do you mean?

I meant I didn't want the flail to focus on disarming or tripping opponents.

[DragoonWraith]

Oooh. OK, now that makes a lot more sense.

[imp_fireball]

Maybe a discipline that focuses on breaking opponent's armor and shield, knocking them back, denying them from moving forward or attacking in a round, dazing/stunning/etc.

Possibly even a stance that focuses on making an attack to every adjacent space each round when someone moves into a space as if it were an attack of opportunity - but the AoO wouldn't apply when they are moving out of the space. This implies the effect of whirling the flail around in a lethal manner. Each special AoO could be made at a -10 penalty.

Or perhaps it should be a boost that forces you to end the boost whenever you wanna initiate something else that is a strike, counter or regular attack.