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View Full Version : 3.5 magic "fix" lol



Evard
2010-02-27, 12:05 AM
Ok first of all this is just for fun since I've read many 3.5 DnD unbalanced threads .... One way to "fix" the magic system is not to change the magic it self like how a lot of people want to but to make the wizard, sorcerer, cleric or whatever jump threw soooo many hoops to cast a spell that just attacking would be soooo easier :p

The things that a caster must do to cast a spell
1) Make a check to see if they can remember to full name of the spell they want to cast. This will be an Int/Wis check. D20 + Mod vs. 10 + spell level *
2) Make a check for each type of component. Verbal will be a Int/Cha/Wis check and Somatic will be Str/Dex/Con check. D20 + Mod vs. 10 + spell level *
3) All spells have to have an attack roll, this will be D20 + mod vs. 10 + save bonus (ref,will, fort depending on what the spell targets).
4) Spell resistance as normal. Give melee types a natural spell resistance they gain at first level (never changes unless magically enhanced) Con mod X 4.
5) The target gets their save fort, ref, will as normal

* some penalties life being tied up or wearing armor may apply also things like blindness/deafness/silence can mess with concentration
Yes this would bog down fights if anyone casts a spell but that's the point :p To make magic sooooo troublesome that they might as well use melee XD

One thing that could be done is the caster roll 1 d20 and use that result for all the checks :p If one fails then the spell fails but is not expended.

Kylarra
2010-02-27, 12:17 AM
Let me save you a half dozen rolls and just apply a blanket 40% spell failure chance.

Better yet, every time a player wants to cast a spell, you hit him with the PHB and ask him if he still wants to cast a spell. If he does, hit him again until he doesn't.




Basically, adding another 3-5 rolls to every spell is just going to bog the game down and make it no fun for anyone. You want a simple fix for spellcasting? Remove all the full casters.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-27, 12:24 AM
Take magic back closer to what it was in 2nd ed.
Smack a wizard while he's casting, he's lost the spell, no more piddly concentration check that can be boosted to the stratosphere.
Wizards are limited in exactly how many spells of each level they can put in their spell book (1 per point of Intelligence I think it was).
A lot of the costs of spells in 3E, are reduced compared to earlier editions. Permanency now requires a few XP points, depending on what spell is being effected (affected?).
2nd ed, you lost a point of Con each time you used the spell. And the spell was required in the crafting of a magic item (granted, most DMs didn't let magic item crafting anyway)

Runestar
2010-02-27, 02:15 AM
Smack a wizard while he's casting, he's lost the spell, no more piddly concentration check that can be boosted to the stratosphere.
Wizards are limited in exactly how many spells of each level they can put in their spell book (1 per point of Intelligence I think it was).
A lot of the costs of spells in 3E, are reduced compared to earlier editions. Permanency now requires a few XP points, depending on what spell is being effected (affected?).
2nd ed, you lost a point of Con each time you used the spell. And the spell was required in the crafting of a magic item (granted, most DMs didn't let magic item crafting anyway)

Not really an impact, if you ask me.

I don't bother using permanency (because it will just end up getting dispelled sooner or later), and the list of spells you can make permanent suck. You are generally hit for more damage than you can hope to make with a concentration check, and a wizard can get by with just a few popular spells (plus 2e wizards with 19int bypassed this limit). My focused conjurer has survived with just the 4 spells/lv from collegiate wizard, though I am certain he can make do with just 2/lv. :smallsmile:


Yes this would bog down fights if anyone casts a spell but that's the point :p To make magic sooooo troublesome that they might as well use melee XD

This does little to make the effects of magic any less powerful. Just to be an annoyance, I would go through all the motions, and make myself as big a nuisance to the other players in the process until the DM finally caves in and restores the original magic system.

Hey, I didn't create the system, I merely attempt to thrive in whatever environment the DM provides. :smallamused:

You are talking to someone who has spent 2+ hours rolling for that perfect 96 stat array in baldur's gate and running around the promenade while pelting mencar pebblecrusher with sling stones. :smallbiggrin:

herrhauptmann
2010-02-28, 01:00 PM
Not really an impact, if you ask me.

I don't bother using permanency (because it will just end up getting dispelled sooner or later), and the list of spells you can make permanent suck. You are generally hit for more damage than you can hope to make with a concentration check, and a wizard can get by with just a few popular spells (plus 2e wizards with 19int bypassed this limit). My focused conjurer has survived with just the 4 spells/lv from collegiate wizard, though I am certain he can make do with just 2/lv. :smallsmile:

Permanency was just an example. I'm sort of lacking in a AD&D playershandbook, so I can't really compare the spells.
Unless your wizard is unlucky enough to get stuck right next to an ubercharger or frenzied berserker before the start of his turn, you should be able to make the concentration checks. Especially at higher levels (when magic gets overpowered), the concentration skill goes up steadily, while damage from individual attacks does not.


This does little to make the effects of magic any less powerful. Just to be an annoyance, I would go through all the motions, and make myself as big a nuisance to the other players in the process until the DM finally caves in and restores the original magic system.
Hey, I didn't create the system, I merely attempt to thrive in whatever environment the DM provides. :smallamused:
You are talking to someone who has spent 2+ hours rolling for that perfect 96 stat array in baldur's gate and running around the promenade while pelting mencar pebblecrusher with sling stones. :smallbiggrin:
2+ hours to get perfect stats in a computer game. You're an insane player.
Intentionally dragging the game down because you disagree with a ruling. You're a jerk player.

Apropos
2010-02-28, 01:06 PM
Someone made a nice sorcerer class for his game somewhere out there. It essentially gave the sorcerer only one or two schools of magic to cast from, but their spells scaled slightly upward if the sorcerer got to higher levels. It's not the best fix in the world, but it certainly makes sure that you can't do anything batman-y.

sofawall
2010-02-28, 01:13 PM
make the wizard, sorcerer, cleric or whatever jump threw soooo many hoops to cast a spell that just attacking would be soooo easier :p

Jerk rule deserves a jerk response.

Volkov
2010-02-28, 01:14 PM
Give every monster a ring of omni-counterspelling, counterspelling every last thing they cast without fail.

lsfreak
2010-02-28, 01:17 PM
Just have the God of Magic appear and Finger of Death every spellcaster. That gets rid of all this passive-aggressive bull****.

Screwing over players isn't the way to fix things. Ever. Though I laugh for the time when the players point out that you have to follow the rules, too, when your BBEG tries to cast something.

ericgrau
2010-02-28, 01:18 PM
Let me save you a half dozen rolls and just apply a blanket 40% spell failure chance.

If it's 40% for combat spells, it should be up to 70% for any utility spell or spell with a duration of 10 minutes or more. Otherwise spell failure chance will favor spells you can retry on.

This topic reminds me of another thread where players were talking about how DMs thought wizards were so OP that they nerfed them into the ground so that they couldn't do anything anymore. I'm betting he only played a wizard casually. IMO the best and most commonly effective solution is responsible players who don't (or sometimes don't know how to) try to go crazy with their casters. And maybe a minor nerf if anything.

Kylarra
2010-02-28, 01:27 PM
If it's 40% for combat spells, it should be up to 70% for any utility spell or spell with a duration of 10 minutes or more. Otherwise spell failure chance will favor spells you can retry on.

This topic reminds me of another thread where players were talking about how DMs thought wizards were so OP that they nerfed them into the ground so that they couldn't do anything anymore. I'm betting he only played a wizard casually. IMO the best and most commonly effective solution is responsible players who don't (or sometimes don't know how to) try to go crazy with their casters. And maybe a minor nerf if anything.I was being facetious, as you'll notice from the rest of my post. I'll throw in a wink next time. :smallwink:

The bolded I agree with though, and I will always favor DM-Player communication over hard nerfbats.