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View Full Version : DMing 4E for 1E players? [D&D]



Livor
2010-02-27, 06:39 AM
Basically, I'm going to be DMing for a group of young teens in order to teach them how to play 4E. They already know how to play 1E, so I was wondering if there were any comparable concepts in 1E that I could use to explain the rules in a way that they already understand.

Curiously enough, I have only ever played 3E, but I think I've looked at 4E enough to be able to figure it out. I'm reasonably familiar with the differences between 3E and 4E. I'll be running the "Test Drive", with the starter rules and H1, so I don't think I'll have too much of a problem.

I've also never DMed before, so any general tips wouldn't go amiss.

tcrudisi
2010-02-27, 07:36 AM
Basically, I'm going to be DMing for a group of young teens in order to teach them how to play 4E. They already know how to play 1E, so I was wondering if there were any comparable concepts in 1E that I could use to explain the rules in a way that they already understand.

Curiously enough, I have only ever played 3E, but I think I've looked at 4E enough to be able to figure it out. I'm reasonably familiar with the differences between 3E and 4E. I'll be running the "Test Drive", with the starter rules and H1, so I don't think I'll have too much of a problem.

I've also never DMed before, so any general tips wouldn't go amiss.

For starters, please oh please don't run H1. In my opinion, it is the worst module that has been printed for 4e.

I realize it might be a little bit harder to start, but can I suggest starting above 1st level? Something like ... 5th. At 1st level, it can be very annoying to only have 4 powers: 2 at-wills, 1 encounter, and 1 daily. At 5th level, the players will have access to 2 at-wills, 2 encounters, 2 dailies, and 1 utility power, so they will have a lot more versatility, but still not an overwhelming amount. Or at least 3rd level so they can have a utility power and 2 encounter powers.

As a quick aside -- gently encourage players not to play the Wizard or Swordmage. Those classes are incredibly tough to do properly, especially for the first character. If someone wants to play a Wizard, show them the Sorc from PHB2 -- typically people want to play a blaster that fireballs everything, and that's exactly what the Sorc does best. The Wizard? Not so much.

I've played 1e and I can't see any similarities between 1e and 4e. Each edition just changes so much that the only thing similar is the concept. 2e was different from 1e, 3e was a huge jump from 2e, and 4e was quite a jump from 3e... and always along the same path instead of circular, so 4e is really, really far away from 1e. Sorry that I can't be more helpful here.

Thane of Fife
2010-02-27, 07:38 AM
They already know how to play 1E, so I was wondering if there were any comparable concepts in 1E that I could use to explain the rules in a way that they already understand.

Not much. I mean, races, classes, levels, and hit points are all still there, but even they're changed a fair bit.

4e's not that complicated, though, so it shouldn't be too much effort to explain the rules, especially with the Test Drive.

DabblerWizard
2010-02-27, 08:52 AM
Obligatory DM tips link

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474

Livor
2010-02-27, 09:15 AM
For starters, please oh please don't run H1. In my opinion, it is the worst module that has been printed for 4e.

I realize it might be a little bit harder to start, but can I suggest starting above 1st level? Something like ... 5th. At 1st level, it can be very annoying to only have 4 powers: 2 at-wills, 1 encounter, and 1 daily. At 5th level, the players will have access to 2 at-wills, 2 encounters, 2 dailies, and 1 utility power, so they will have a lot more versatility, but still not an overwhelming amount. Or at least 3rd level so they can have a utility power and 2 encounter powers.


This would be all well and good, and I really should have mentioned this in the OP, but I don't actually have any of the source books.

Basically, I was thinking I'd run though H1 using the pre-made characters and decide what to do from there. I don't know how easy it would be to pick combat powers and the like without having actually played before. It might not be all that important, I don't know. I'm really not sure how fast they'll pick it up, so I'm erring on the side of caution. It may be that the caution is unwarranted.

Ashtar
2010-02-27, 09:32 AM
And H1 has stupid hard and large fights too. :/

tcrudisi
2010-02-27, 09:44 AM
This would be all well and good, and I really should have mentioned this in the OP, but I don't actually have any of the source books.

Basically, I was thinking I'd run though H1 using the pre-made characters and decide what to do from there. I don't know how easy it would be to pick combat powers and the like without having actually played before. It might not be all that important, I don't know. I'm really not sure how fast they'll pick it up, so I'm erring on the side of caution. It may be that the caution is unwarranted.

Then please go into H1 with the understanding that it is, in my opinion (and many opinions that I have seen online), the worst module printed. Of course, it was also the first module printed. Just please be ready to give it a second chance after it, with the understanding that this is basically the worst that 4e has to offer. So if you enjoy it or find it merely okay? Well, it only gets better.

Wait, I'm a bit confused. Realize that when I played/ran H1, it was via the actual printed module and thus before they offered it for free online. As such, I don't know if they included the basic rules in the freebie download. Ya know, simple things like "how to level a character to 2" or "how to know if a monster hits your Fort defense." Is all that included? If not, you can do without all the books except for the basic PHB. If nothing else, reading it (and then the errata), would make for a much better understanding of the system.

Also, just another forewarning: the first few sessions go very slowly in combat until people figure out how to run their characters. But I found that was true any time I learn a new system -- but it can be frustrating. Now my turns don't take more than 10 seconds, including rolling, so combats can be over in 5-10 minutes flat. But until people are comfortable with the new combat rules and their character, it will go slowly. Just another pitfall to watch out for.

And I'm giving the warnings because I genuinely love 4e. I feel it's a great system, so I want you to be aware of the potential hindrances so you can hedge against them and be prepared for them.

But, since you don't even own the PHB, does the H1 download include the basic rules? If not, please consider how to beg, borrow, or steal a PHB (not literally steal... don't go to jail over a game!). I mean, could you imagine trying to run your first 3rd ed. game without a PHB?

Thane of Fife
2010-02-27, 10:56 AM
The online "test drive" contains the module, a few characters, and the basic rules - it's kind of like a starter set. It does contain everything needed, though (to get up to, I believe, Level 3).

See here (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20090428).

Tiki Snakes
2010-02-27, 11:20 AM
From what I've seen, there have been some pretty welcome changes to the module since the printed version. The downloadable one is, insult to injury, not only free but also a better version. :smallsmile:

But, yes. Don't expect too much from it, it's a pretty basic module essentially, very plot light and combat heavy.