Caprica

[Sneak]

So, I've been watching Caprica recently, and I must say that I'm really enjoying it. I loved Battlestar Galactica (although I'm one of those who hated the conclusion), but I also think that Caprica's good. Although it's technically a spinoff, it really stands on its own as a show, and it's very different.

BSG focused on the urgency and desperation of the last remnants of a civilizations searching for a home while escaping the clutches of the vengeful sentient machines out to kill them, and it told a very melodramatic, grandiose story. While it was concerned with characterization, it was also very concerned with the story it had to tell. Caprica, on the other hand, eschews this sort of broad vision of humanity's struggle for survival and focuses almost exclusively on the characters themselves (which is not to say that it doesn't have a plot at all), allowing it to tell a much subtler, slower-paced story, which I find fascinating.

Where BSG was melodrama, Caprica is drama. And they're both compelling in their own ways.

Thoughts?

Oh, and some other spare thoughts (spoilers through episode 5):


-Grandma Tauron is scary.
-I loved the whole Baxter Sarno sequence.
-I thought the dance scene was cool, but it was also kinda...creepy.
-I'm not really loving the holoband stuff so far. The bank heist story wasn't very interesting, and the whole place just kind of...disgusts me. Which it's probably supposed to, but I don't enjoy watching it.
-Sam Adama is great.
-At this point, I have absolutely no idea how Bill Adama grew up to be the man we see in BSG.
-It amuses me greatly that Amanda Graystone is Trixie from Deadwood.
-So far I've spotted at least two actors reused from BSG...Kat the Former Drug-running Viper Jock Martyr as Pryah the PR Lady, and Duck the Suicide Bomber Pilot as Unnamed and As-of-Yet Unimportant Tauron Gangster.
-The show has really nice visuals.
-Although I didn't like Torresani/Zoe in the pilot, she's growing on me now (as the robot-girl).
-And watching her rip off her own arm was just terrible.

[bosssmiley]

Cliche. Cliche. Cliche.

I thought sci-fi was supposed to be about stretching our imaginations. Well, sorry, but my imagination isn't at all stretched by Caprica's lazy hotch-potch of 'contemporary Amurka in spaaaaaaaace!' cliches. I mean, don't you dare challenge peoples' preconceptions and unexamined assumptions. Heavens to Betsy! Imagine if sci-fi did such things! People might have to think about it. :smalleek:

You can almost hear the line crackle as the writing team phone it in. Italian Tauren mooks in fedoras who all but pronounce their pretendy language as "Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom. Wassamattawiyou kiddo?", a passel of scary monotheist turrurists ("Lalalalalalala!" *Boom*), some creepy private school teachers ("Coz privilege is bad, m'kay?"), and sub-After School Special material about what teens get up to on the electroweb. Even the robot daughter shtick - apparently the very core of the series - was done first and better by A for Andromeda back in the 60s.

Is that really the best American sci-fi can do in 2010? What's the point in saying less than one's predecessors? Give me something I haven't already seen! Oh, and the lead writer's head on a plate while we're about it (pour encourage les autres).

YAWN!

Wake me up when there's some real sci-fi (Quatermass, Doomwatch, John Wyndham, etc.) on TV.

(Hey, you asked. It's just a shame that HBO has spoiled me for network trash.)

[Tiktakkat]

So far I like it.
It keeps bringing out the shocks, but most importantly it has me wanting to know how the story ends, even though I already "know".

[YorickBrown]

even after 5 episodes, i still don't have a fully formed opinion of it. i like the characters and some of the plot lines; i do not like the writing at parts and most of the plot lines.

but Ronald D. Moore has earned my eternal trust for what he did with BSG & Carnivale so i will continue to watch until either i completely lose interest or until it ends

[BRC]

I have only seen a little of BSG, but I'm enjoying Caprica. It's barely Science Fiction (In the sense that Science Fiction is a story that explores how society will change with the advances of technology), because some of the most gripping parts are not about the Holobands or the Zoelon, but about the People. In some ways the fact that the show avoids lots of the trappings of Science Fiction helps keep it grounded, because most of the show could just as easily be set in Modern earth.
Also, Patton Oswold as a Jay Leno Expy, very nice. Not to mention, they avoided what I will call "Star Wars Prequel Syndrome", trying to keep fans happy by having as many BSG characters as possible. I barely watched BSG, and I can follow the events perfectly.

My main complaint is the way the Show seems to be saying "The Holobands (internet) is EVIL! Because kids go on it and do all sort of depraved things where there are no consequences!"
Now whether that is just a part of the story, or whether it is an agenda on the part of the writers I'm not sure yet.
The way they treat the Zoelon is interesting, switching between showing her as a human and as a robot. It leads to some very odd scenes, but I think that's the intent.

[YorickBrown]

anyone else notice that the PR rep working w/ Daniel Graystone is Kat?

[Sneak]

anyone else notice that the PR rep working w/ Daniel Graystone is Kat?


-So far I've spotted at least two actors reused from BSG...Kat the Former Drug-running Viper Jock Martyr as Pryah the PR Lady, and Duck the Suicide Bomber Pilot as Unnamed and As-of-Yet Unimportant Tauron Gangster.

Yes. :smallwink:


Also, Patton Oswold as a Jay Leno Expy, very nice.

I thought he was more of a Jon Stewart type, personally. I think the "90% of teenagers get their news from him" (or whatever the statistic was) thing gave it away for me. :smalltongue:

That said, I've never really watched Jay Leno, so I don't know how similar he is.


My main complaint is the way the Show seems to be saying "The Holobands (internet) is EVIL! Because kids go on it and do all sort of depraved things where there are no consequences!"
Now whether that is just a part of the story, or whether it is an agenda on the part of the writers I'm not sure yet.

Hmm. I hadn't really thought about it, but that's true. "Technology is bad" certainly seemed to be one of the main themes of BSG, but I'm trying to judge Caprica on its own merits, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what else the writers give us to work with.

[YorickBrown]

i knew i saw Duck in there!!

:smallbiggrin:

[BRC]

Yes. :smallwink:



I thought he was more of a Jon Stewart type, personally. I think the "90% of teenagers get their news from him" (or whatever the statistic was) thing gave it away for me. :smalltongue:

That said, I've never really watched Jay Leno, so I don't know how similar he is.

I figured he was A Jon Stewart type, and I've never actually watched Leno, but the way he was presented mixed more with what I know about Leno than Stewart. The Graystones "Went on Sarno", we don't say somebody "goes on Stewart" we say they "Go on the daily show". He talked to them around a table rather than sitting at a desk. Also his name: Sarno sounds like Leno.
Mind you, he's probably just a mash up of all those late-night news comedians rather than a specific expy.


Hmm. I hadn't really thought about it, but that's true. "Technology is bad" certainly seemed to be one of the main themes of BSG, but I'm trying to judge Caprica on its own merits, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what else the writers give us to work with.
I have no trouble with the "Technology is bad" theme as it applies to AI's turning against their creators, that's a classic. It's more that the ONLY Holoband places we have seen so far have been the Club, where kids go and use the lack of consequences to kill each other and have sex and use drugs, or the Game, where people, once again, use the lack of consequences to be violent. The way they presented it, along with the "You can BE something out there!" made it seem like a condemnation of MMO's. I might feel different if they showed Any legitimate uses of the Holoband, people using them to teleconference, check the news, have virtual classrooms, chat with friends or play some golf in a casual environment. I mean, the way it's presented, the applications of the technology are incredible. And yet, from what they've shown us, the only people who use it are escapist teenagers acting out their most depraved fantasies. It's like telling somebody about the Internet, and then only showing them Porn and World of Warcraft.

It would be nice if they showed somebody using the Holoband to check their stocks, or watch a sports game, or meet with a friend, or watch a movie. You know, something besides the Club and Grand Theft Caprica.

[Sneak]

i knew i saw Duck in there!!

:smallbiggrin:

And according to his IMDB page, (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0856351/) the character has a name! Maybe he'll be returning...


I figured he was A Jon Stewart type, and I've never actually watched Leno, but the way he was presented mixed more with what I know about Leno than Stewart. The Graystones "Went on Sarno", we don't say somebody "goes on Stewart" we say they "Go on the daily show". He talked to them around a table rather than sitting at a desk. Also his name: Sarno sounds like Leno.
Mind you, he's probably just a mash up of all those late-night news comedians rather than a specific expy.

Makes sense. And yeah, I never actually thought he was supposed to be just one specific guy.


I have no trouble with the "Technology is bad" theme as it applies to AI's turning against their creators, that's a classic. It's more that the ONLY Holoband places we have seen so far have been the Club, where kids go and use the lack of consequences to kill each other and have sex and use drugs, or the Game, where people, once again, use the lack of consequences to be violent. The way they presented it, along with the "You can BE something out there!" made it seem like a condemnation of MMO's.

I agree, for the most part, and I understand what you're saying. Although in terms of MMOs, I think the You Can Be Something Kid would be one of those people who literally never leave the basement and spend all waking hours playing, not a normal player, so I don't really have a problem with the way they presented that.


I might feel different if they showed Any legitimate uses of the Holoband, people using them to teleconference, check the news, have virtual classrooms, chat with friends or play some golf in a casual environment. I mean, the way it's presented, the applications of the technology are incredible. And yet, from what they've shown us, the only people who use it are escapist teenagers acting out their most depraved fantasies. It's like telling somebody about the Internet, and then only showing them Porn and World of Warcraft.

It would be nice if they showed somebody using the Holoband to check their stocks, or watch a sports game, or meet with a friend, or watch a movie. You know, something besides the Club and Grand Theft Caprica.

I think you're treating the Holoband as a direct analog to internet, when they're not actually the same. Given the email on their Caprican iPad things, I assume Caprica does have normal internet. The Holoband is virtual reality, though, not just internet. You wouldn't need to go into the Holoband to check your stocks or watch a sports game/movie.

It would be useful for meeting with a friend or holding a business conference with people from all over the Colonies, though. There would also probably be lots of different types of games to play on it, i.e. RPGs and racing games, etc.

So yes, I agree that it could be shown in a little less of a completely negative light, but at the same time, I can easily see virtual reality becoming a big problem, with the "no consequences" aspect combined with the visceral reality of it that traditional media and even the internet lacks.

It probably is true, however, that the Holoband is meant to be an analog to the internet, so I'll concede the point.

[BRC]

So yes, I agree that it could be shown in a little less of a completely negative light, but at the same time, I can easily see virtual reality becoming a big problem, with the "no consequences" aspect combined with the visceral reality of it that traditional media and even the internet lacks.

It probably is true, however, that the Holoband is meant to be an analog to the internet, so I'll concede the point.
Even if it's not intended that way, it's close enough.
It dosn't help that you never get any indication the person is choosing where to go, the same way one types in a URL. You just put on the Holoband, and suddenly you're in the Club. They don't get from the Club to the Grand Theft Caprica by logging out or walking into a glowing doorway and saying "Grand Theft Caprica", they take a tunnel. Greystones little AI box Dark Room apparently leads directly to the STO's little hideaway in the Club.

Edit: While the Club and Grand Theft Caprica are realistic outcomes of VR technology. People would hack it, and use it to experience things they could not experience otherwise. It just bugs me that those are the only uses presented by it.

I mean think about it, somebody could relax by using the Holoband to sit on a beautiful beach and read a book. Buisness people could play a game of virtual golf while discussing investment opportunities. Engineers could use it to help design things, entering a virtual workshop with simulations of every tool and material they can get their hands on, shrinking down to the size of ant's to check the fine details of their designs, ordering the computer to run a simulation of how the machine operates. Mind you, it wouldn't replace traditional prototypes, but it would be useful in the design stages.

Okay, I'm rambling now, and should really get work done.

[Sneak]

Even if it's not intended that way, it's close enough.
It dosn't help that you never get any indication the person is choosing where to go, the same way one types in a URL. You just put on the Holoband, and suddenly you're in the Club. They don't get from the Club to the Grand Theft Caprica by logging out or walking into a glowing doorway and saying "Grand Theft Caprica", they take a tunnel. Greystones little AI box Dark Room apparently leads directly to the STO's little hideaway in the Club.

Edit: While the Club and Grand Theft Caprica are realistic outcomes of VR technology. People would hack it, and use it to experience things they could not experience otherwise. It just bugs me that those are the only uses presented by it.

I mean think about it, somebody could relax by using the Holoband to sit on a beautiful beach and read a book. Buisness people could play a game of virtual golf while discussing investment opportunities. Engineers could use it to help design things, entering a virtual workshop with simulations of every tool and material they can get their hands on, shrinking down to the size of ant's to check the fine details of their designs, ordering the computer to run a simulation of how the machine operates. Mind you, it wouldn't replace traditional prototypes, but it would be useful in the design stages.

Okay, I'm rambling now, and should really get work done.

I agree. And presumably, people do use it in such legitimate ways, as the club and places like it are supposedly "hacked" in some way and not the normal Holoband usage. So yeah, I see what you're saying, and it would be nice if they could present the other side of it.

[The Big Dice]

I caught a couple of episode and thought it suffered from the same problems as I found with X-Files. Namely, it doesn't keep my attention on it for the entire episode, I find it hard to care about the characters and the situations don't draw me in.

Not my cup of tea.

[Mando Knight]

I tuned into it once randomly (hoping for TNG to be on while flipping through channels), and didn't realize at first that Caprica was a BSG spinoff... so as soon as I saw the prototype Cylon, I thought "What's a frackin' Cylon doing here?" :smalltongue:

[Philistine]

Even if it's not intended that way, it's close enough.
It dosn't help that you never get any indication the person is choosing where to go, the same way one types in a URL. You just put on the Holoband, and suddenly you're in the Club. They don't get from the Club to the Grand Theft Caprica by logging out or walking into a glowing doorway and saying "Grand Theft Caprica", they take a tunnel. Greystones little AI box Dark Room apparently leads directly to the STO's little hideaway in the Club.
In one of the previous episodes, we see Lacy receive a message from Zoe saying "Meet me here." Lacy then dons her holoband, touches the word 'here' in the message, and (as far as we can tell) appears right in front of Zoe. So while we don't see anyone typing URLs (on what keyboard?, he asks), users certainly appear to have some control over where they appear when they log in.

"New Cap City" is clearly a special part of the network with unique rules; I imagined the tunnel as a more immersive analogue of a loading screen, which appears while the master system is logging you in (and verifying that you're still eligible to enter). The handful of other area transitions we've seen in the virtual world have been a matter of simply passing through a door.


Edit: While the Club and Grand Theft Caprica are realistic outcomes of VR technology. People would hack it, and use it to experience things they could not experience otherwise. It just bugs me that those are the only uses presented by it.

I mean think about it, somebody could relax by using the Holoband to sit on a beautiful beach and read a book. Buisness people could play a game of virtual golf while discussing investment opportunities. Engineers could use it to help design things, entering a virtual workshop with simulations of every tool and material they can get their hands on, shrinking down to the size of ant's to check the fine details of their designs, ordering the computer to run a simulation of how the machine operates. Mind you, it wouldn't replace traditional prototypes, but it would be useful in the design stages.

Okay, I'm rambling now, and should really get work done.
Maybe they are doing all these things, and what we've got so far is just sampling bias. Greystone strongly implies that the V-Club and New Cap City are not uses his company created/authorized (also, that GI are not making money from them); yet the legitimate uses bring in enough cash to account for 60% of the net revenue of an industry-leading high-tech firm, and make the Doctors Greystone among the wealthiest people in the Twelve Colonies into the bargain.

But who do we actually see using the tech? Mostly Lacy and Zoe (or occasionally someone chasing Lacy or Zoe), who appear to be using the V-club to hide their little STO meeting spot and to camouflage their visits to same. It's not exactly a representative sample.

[BRC]

In one of the previous episodes, we see Lacy receive a message from Zoe saying "Meet me here." Lacy then dons her holoband, touches the word 'here' in the message, and (as far as we can tell) appears right in front of Zoe. So while we don't see anyone typing URLs (on what keyboard?, he asks), users certainly appear to have some control over where they appear when they log in.

"New Cap City" is clearly a special part of the network with unique rules; I imagined the tunnel as a more immersive analogue of a loading screen, which appears while the master system is logging you in (and verifying that you're still eligible to enter). The handful of other area transitions we've seen in the virtual world have been a matter of simply passing through a door.


Maybe they are doing all these things, and what we've got so far is just sampling bias. Greystone strongly implies that the V-Club and New Cap City are not uses his company created/authorized (also, that GI are not making money from them); yet the legitimate uses bring in enough cash to account for 60% of the net revenue of an industry-leading high-tech firm, and make the Doctors Greystone among the wealthiest people in the Twelve Colonies into the bargain.

But who do we actually see using the tech? Mostly Lacy and Zoe (or occasionally someone chasing Lacy or Zoe), who appear to be using the V-club to hide their little STO meeting spot and to camouflage their visits to same. It's not exactly a representative sample.
Oh I'm aware that in the show's universe people do use the Holobands legitimately, that all we have seen so far has been an unrepresentative sample. It just bugs me that show Writers are only giving us this sample. I'm probably just being paranoid/ seeing messages where none are intended, but it seems like the writers are giving us that sample intentionally.


I know that, within the setting, the Holobands are used for a variety of reasons, that the wearers choose where to go. My complaint is not about what Holobands are within the setting. My complaint is about how the Holobands are presented by the writers of the show.

[factotum]

But who do we actually see using the tech? Mostly Lacy and Zoe (or occasionally someone chasing Lacy or Zoe), who appear to be using the V-club to hide their little STO meeting spot and to camouflage their visits to same. It's not exactly a representative sample.

Actually, we saw the STO teacher woman using the holoband to contact her presumed superiors in one episode, which I suppose you could class as a slightly legit use of the technology :smallsmile:.

As for how Bill Adama grows up from what we see to BSG's version--how old is he right now? Twelve, maybe? Yet we know that the first Cylon war starts and ends within 14 years (start of first episode of Caprica said it was 54 years before the Fall, and at the start of BSG we're told it's 40 years since anyone has even seen a Cylon). Chances are he's going to have a pretty hefty baptism of fire before this is all done.

[Jamin]

Who else thinks that the they will be 8 avatars made and that they will become the cylon skinjobs

[Sneak]

Who else thinks that the they will be 8 avatars made and that they will become the cylon skinjobs

Nope. We already know that the final five made them from the last season or so of BSG.

[Jamin]

Nope. We already know that the final five made them from the last season or so of BSG.

No, we know that they made them bodies in fact I think it is made clear that the final Five did not make they personalities

[Sneak]

When did they make that clear, exactly?

I guess it's possible, but I don't think it's all that likely. The story of the skinjobs has already been told in BSG. This is the story of the centurions.

Still, it is possible (and maybe even probable) that Daniel, the corrupted/lost seventh model, is named after or somehow related to Daniel Graystone.