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Apollo1776
2010-02-27, 11:57 AM
So I've been researching for min-maxing using the player's handbook only. I came across the spell clone and thought, "Yes, how do I preserve this indefinitely?" Obviously I could have someone cast gentle repose every now and then, but I don't want to put my fate in the hands of some NPC, too risky. Or I could carry it around with me and cast gentle repose myself, but that is just limiting and requires me to be protective.

So I found the spell temporal stasis. The spell clearly states that target is a creature, but could this spell affect an object as well?

If so, then how would temporal stasis work if I died and then transferred to my clone? Would I roll fortitude save then to negate the spell or would I be stuck in a temporal stasis?

If the above method isn't possible then I guess I could research an indefinite gentle repose using permanency.

tyckspoon
2010-02-27, 12:11 PM
Temporal Stasis says creature, it means creature. An unused Clone body is not a creature. I'm not sure why Gentle Repose doesn't work for you, however- it's duration day/level. By the time you can make your own Clone at all an Extended Gentle Repose will preserve it for more than a month per casting. 3 spell slots once per month (1 Gentle Repose, 2 Teleports to get to your safehouse and back) is not a big deal.

Eldariel
2010-02-27, 12:21 PM
You could just store it in a plane with extremely slow time (Timelessness is a bad idea since leaving that plane would then cause issues) and Extended Gentle Repose it easily for hundreds of years at a time.


Or you could PAO the body into a creature, Temporal Stasis that and dispel the PAO. Or hell, you could make the body living on its own right; as long as it's mindless, it shouldn't do anything.

Apollo1776
2010-02-27, 12:27 PM
You could just store it in a plane with extremely slow time (Timelessness is a bad idea since leaving that plane would then cause issues) and Extended Gentle Repose it easily for hundreds of years at a time.


Or you could PAO the body into a creature, Temporal Stasis that and dispel the PAO. Or hell, you could make the body living on its own right; as long as it's mindless, it shouldn't do anything.

If I make the body living and use temporal stasis on it, it will be just as if it wasn't living. Now that I think about it a permanent gentle repose seems feasible.

Shadowbane
2010-02-27, 12:40 PM
Gentle repose should be feasible, because the way I see it you don't really have any other easily usable options. :smallbiggrin: Temporal Stasis just doesn't work here.

Eldariel
2010-02-27, 12:48 PM
If I make the body living and use temporal stasis on it, it will be just as if it wasn't living. Now that I think about it a permanent gentle repose seems feasible.

Well, Temporal Stasis is the better solution as it never needs to be recast. Though you do need to set up some contingent Dispel for when the Clone-spell is activated.

Lysander
2010-02-27, 12:58 PM
You could just store it in a plane with extremely slow time (Timelessness is a bad idea since leaving that plane would then cause issues) and Extended Gentle Repose it easily for hundreds of years at a time.


The solution is to cast Gentle Repose and then stash the body on the timeless plane. The preservation spell will never expire on a timeless plane so you will never have retroactive decay after leaving.

Eldariel
2010-02-27, 01:02 PM
The solution is to cast Gentle Repose and then stash the body on the timeless plane. The preservation spell will never expire on a timeless plane so you will never have retroactive decay after leaving.

Far as I know, timelessness doesn't stop spells from expiring. All that's listed in DMG Timeless description is "Age, hunger, thirst, poison and natural healing don't function while on a Timeless plane although they resume once you leave."

Apollo1776
2010-02-27, 01:04 PM
It isn't that temporal stasis is indefinite, because with permanency and a successful research check I can make gentle repose permanent too. It is that temporal stasis is safer. The creature it affects cannot be harmed at all while the spell is active. So say an archenemy comes and tries to hunt down my hideout and got passed all of my defenses. He finds it and finds my clone. He's not a spellcaster. If I had only cast gentle repose he could chop my clone to bits. But with temporal stasis he can't do a thing to it without dispelling it.

Why not just get a trap that tells me when someone enters? I would, and then teleport to my house. But say I'm trapped in a antimagic field, what then? Who's to say I won't be caught up in a bind and be unable to see to the problem. The temporal stasis would buy me enough time to get out of whatever situation I may be in and return to my clone.

Consider me a cautious villain. I'm thinking intelligently and taking precautions just in case everything that can go wrong does go wrong. Don't leave anything up to chance, that's when the dice fail you the most.

hamishspence
2010-02-27, 01:18 PM
In City of the Spider Queen, there is a Robe of Gentle Repose. Cost- 10000 gp. Effect- Constant gentle repose on the wearer.

If it can be put on a dead body, not just an undead body, it should solve the problem.

Sophismata
2010-02-27, 01:22 PM
Finally, a use for quintessence.

Eldariel
2010-02-27, 01:25 PM
Finally, a use for quintessence.

Beyond all the "Ending the world"-stuff? 'cause it's plenty useful for that with Forced Dream.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-27, 08:04 PM
Beyond all the "Ending the world"-stuff? 'cause it's plenty useful for that with Forced Dream.

That doesn't end the world. It makes an imaginary world which never happened.

Eldariel
2010-02-27, 08:12 PM
That doesn't end the world. It makes an imaginary world which never happened.

That's purely a matter of perspective.

Optimystik
2010-02-27, 08:17 PM
Finally, a use for quintessence.

You're kidding right? All my spare power points at the end of the day got dumped into Quintessence, and stuffed into my bag of holding. I had enough to preserve a Dragon.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-27, 08:34 PM
That's purely a matter of perspective.

Forced Dream is "you were only dreaming the last round".

So it all never happened.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-02-27, 08:43 PM
Beyond all the "Ending the world"-stuff? 'cause it's plenty useful for that with Forced Dream.

Link please? This intrigues me...

Eldariel
2010-02-27, 09:02 PM
Link please? This intrigues me...

Google Forced Dream.


@magic: Sure, but that hardly changes anything since by game mechanics all those years and people did exist. And then promptly got erased from history 'cause someone was dreaming.

faceroll
2010-02-27, 09:23 PM
In City of the Spider Queen, there is a Robe of Gentle Repose. Cost- 10000 gp. Effect- Constant gentle repose on the wearer.

If it can be put on a dead body, not just an undead body, it should solve the problem.

Wow, 10k gp for that? What a ripoff.

magic9mushroom
2010-02-28, 12:35 AM
Google Forced Dream.


@magic: Sure, but that hardly changes anything since by game mechanics all those years and people did exist. And then promptly got erased from history 'cause someone was dreaming.

Well, no. Once he's manifested Forced Dream, everything from then on is only a dream to begin with.

Ravens_cry
2010-02-28, 12:43 AM
Well, no. Once he's manifested Forced Dream, everything from then on is only a dream to begin with.
This (http://xkcd.com/390/) seems appropriate to link to.
Nighty night.:smallamused:

Darrin
2010-02-28, 02:55 PM
In City of the Spider Queen, there is a Robe of Gentle Repose. Cost- 10000 gp. Effect- Constant gentle repose on the wearer.


Unguent of Timelessness (150 GP, DMG) and Agriz' Chest (1000 GP, Races of the Dragon) are cheaper. Also, I think there's a Preserving Jar in Arms & Equipment Guide.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-02-28, 03:05 PM
Spells with creatures as targets usually affect their possesions too. Get some random mook to carry it, preferably something completely under your control so it can attack anything that dispels the Temporal Stasis, then zap them. Make sure you have a Stilled Silenced Teleport always prepared and you can bury your Clone-holder under a mountain and 'port out if you happen to die.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-28, 03:35 PM
A dead body counts as an object, right?
Put it in a bag of holding or haversack. Food doesn't spoil, drinks don't spill. As a lump of meat, the clone is technically food to something.
Now after your clone wakes up, you have to figure out a way to get yourself out of the bag within 10 minutes before suffocating.

Though you could stuff a bottle of air and everburning torch in there. Wake up, find the bottle and torch. Now start equipping yourself with all the loot you had been carrying around and not gotten around to selling. Bonus points if your spell book, scrolls, food, extra reagent bag is in there.
Now, even if you don't have a way to get out of there, you just have to wait until someone opens the bag.

ericgrau
2010-02-28, 04:17 PM
A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved.



You preserve the remains of a dead creature so that they do not decay. Doing so effectively extends the time limit on raising that creature from the dead (see raise dead). Days spent under the influence of this spell donít count against the time limit. Additionally, this spell makes transporting a fallen comrade more pleasant.

The spell also works on severed body parts and the like.

I think a clone is more than close enough.

Ravens_cry
2010-02-28, 08:07 PM
If you don't want to trust someone to keep casting gentle repose, just get a continues item of it. Blam, problem solved. Or possibly, with some DM wrangling, purify food and drink. Might turn your blood to water though.

Lysander
2010-03-01, 02:14 AM
Another option: cast Flesh to Stone on the clone. Leave it with someone you trust along with a jar of Stone Solve with instructions to spread the salve on it should you ever die.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-01, 03:20 AM
This (http://xkcd.com/390/) seems appropriate to link to.
Nighty night.:smallamused:

I'd seen that.

Yes, I know it turns the dreamer into Azathoth. I was trying to dupe you into conceding without getting into a huge derailing metaphysics debate. Oh well. :smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2010-03-01, 03:40 AM
I'd seen that.

Yes, I know it turns the dreamer into Azathoth. I was trying to dupe you into conceding without getting into a huge derailing metaphysics debate. Oh well. :smallbiggrin:
OK, I no more want to derail this thread then you. But metaphysical implications of a spell resulting in xenocide writ large are just too much fun to ignore.

Cyclocone
2010-03-01, 05:15 AM
Assuming FR-specific 3.0 stuff isn't a problem, you could just use Stasis Clone from Lords of Darkness.

At any rate, it does set a precedence for Stasis'd Clones.