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View Full Version : I did a bad thing



valadil
2010-02-27, 11:45 PM
So I ran my second session yesterday. Two (of five) PCs no showed and didn't give me any warning. So I killed their characters.

In my defense, I did give out rez scrolls and the players will come to at the start of the next session. My reasoning for killing off the PCs was that there was a lot of plot happening that concerned them. Usually when PCs don't show up their characters are shadowy and indistinct. It doesn't make sense that they'd ignore the important plot or just ignore it and let the other PCs take over. This was the only thing I could think of that made sense. (Okay, there were probably other alternatives, but at the last minute this was the only thing that occurred to me at the time that made sense).

So was that a bad idea? I hope it didn't alienate anybody but it was the sort of situations where none of the options seemed good.

Apropos
2010-02-27, 11:57 PM
I think it was probably not such a good idea to kill them, but 3 people ditching without warning is sort of annoying. Personally, I would have had them kidnapped and then had the remaining PCs attempt to rescue the other three.

Semidi
2010-02-28, 12:06 AM
Uhm yeah, if people no-showed to my game, I'd probably just cancel the game and hang out and play Settlers of Catan or a one shot game or something. If they didn't tell you they weren't going to show, then it's probably best to, you know, talk to them and stuff because that's kind of a **** move to just no-show without warning. Then again, I tend to attempt to avoid mixing real life stuff with game stuff like the plague.

valadil
2010-02-28, 12:36 AM
I think it was probably not such a good idea to kill them, but 3 people ditching without warning is sort of annoying. Personally, I would have had them kidnapped and then had the remaining PCs attempt to rescue the other three.

Italicized kill is a bit of an overstatement. I forgot to mention, this is 4th ed and death is merely a status effect. I plan on waiving the -1 penalty it usually incurs in this case.

Eurus
2010-02-28, 12:54 AM
My own view on the matter is that it's perfectly fine to kill people for not showing up if they don't have a good excuse -- but it sounds like you generally don't do so, and this was a sort of impromptu decision. That might irritate some people, since they obviously weren't expecting their characters to die. Consistency, I think, is what's more important.

Godskook
2010-02-28, 01:06 AM
My own view on the matter is that it's perfectly fine to kill people for not showing up if they don't have a good excuse

Where do you hide the bodies?

Lunix Vandal
2010-02-28, 01:42 AM
My RL group's (other) DM invokes Left 4 Dead: we find party members that "couldn't make it" this week stuffed in a closet the week after. Mostly because the last couple weeks when sessions started late (due to late/no-shows) the two of us played L4D. :smalltongue:

Kylarra
2010-02-28, 01:48 AM
Where do you hide the bodies?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. :smallamused:

chiasaur11
2010-02-28, 01:58 AM
Where do you hide the bodies?

Well, I find the Dexter novels an excellent source of inspiration. Of course, the frequent trips to Miami do play heck with the schedule, and holding down a job in their blood splatter department is a bit tricky at times, but it does....

I said nothing.

Inhuman Bot
2010-02-28, 01:59 AM
Where do you hide the bodies?

I generally eat them.

Demon's got to keep up a good diet, after all. :smalltongue:

Mando Knight
2010-02-28, 02:03 AM
I forgot to mention, this is 4th ed and death is merely a status effect.

See, I keep telling people this, but they never listen. Death is just a little tick you put by your character sheet, it doesn't really mean anything. :smalltongue:

...But seriously, I got the most incredulous response when I (in a completely serious tone) informed a kid going through LotR for the first time that when Gandalf dies, he gets better. Because things like that happen.:smallwink:

Grumman
2010-02-28, 02:20 AM
This was the only thing I could think of that made sense.
I very much doubt it made sense. Most D&D games aren't in the kind of setting where "Rocks fall, everyone dies" is a likely outcome, and if it was going to happen, it would be because of in-character actions like mooning a dragon, not out-of-character actions like missing the game.


So was that a bad idea? I hope it didn't alienate anybody but it was the sort of situations where none of the options seemed good.
Yes, it was a bad idea to kill their characters because they missed the game. It achieves nothing, it just makes you seem petty.

So unkill them, and don't mention it ever again.

Ossian
2010-02-28, 07:23 AM
Killing off PCs is bad karma for you as a DM. It does not look good on your curriculum. No-show and no-warning is really rude though.
Did you pick up the phone and ask where the hell your players were, instead of being at the table? Sometimes things just slip oneīs mind, which can be forgiven. If they just didnīt bother, what is the point of even having them play with you. They just self-labelled their PCs as expendable, and canīt expect any serious role in the campaign.

By killing them off just in absentia you pretty much lowered yourself to their level.

Asheram
2010-02-28, 07:30 AM
I generally eat them.

Demon's got to keep up a good diet, after all. :smalltongue:

Ah, the goblin funeral.. A classic.

Dyllan
2010-02-28, 07:52 AM
I wouldn't worry about it. Killing PCs in 4e is about as bad as giving them a negative level with an easy save DC in 3.5. Oh, except they don't have to worry about rolling a 1.

If you take away the penalty for death, it's nothing more than a minor story device.

Now, if it was any other edition of DND, where death actually meant something, that'd be different.

valadil
2010-02-28, 09:21 AM
I very much doubt it made sense. Most D&D games aren't in the kind of setting where "Rocks fall, everyone dies" is a likely outcome, and if it was going to happen, it would be because of in-character actions like mooning a dragon, not out-of-character actions like missing the game.

So unkill them, and don't mention it ever again.

I still think it made sense. The story up to that point was that an entrepreneur of an adventurer decided to form up a party that would take on challenges way above his level because he had the gold to fund those adventures. The PCs agreed to this. For their bravery they got thrown off a cliff by a griffon, which they knew they were going to be fighting.

Does handing out free resurrections count as unkilling? Or did you mean retcon it away?


Did you pick up the phone and ask where the hell your players were, instead of being at the table? Sometimes things just slip oneīs mind, which can be forgiven. If they just didnīt bother, what is the point of even having them play with you.

No, because one of the other players had been told they were skipping. I'm not sure why he got told and I didn't. Turns out I'd picked a day when they had another game going on. Maybe they figured I did that knowing they wouldn't be able to make it so there was no reason to notify me of that? I dunno.


I wouldn't worry about it. Killing PCs in 4e is about as bad as giving them a negative level with an easy save DC in 3.5. Oh, except they don't have to worry about rolling a 1.

If you take away the penalty for death, it's nothing more than a minor story device.

Now, if it was any other edition of DND, where death actually meant something, that'd be different.

This is how I justified it. In 4e, killing means removing them from combat and charging the group 8 hours and the price of a resurrection scroll. I didn't even charge them the price of the scroll. In this case death was the quick explanation for where those characters went instead of saying they tagged along with the party but ignored everything that would have interested them.

Primehunter74
2010-02-28, 09:39 AM
I would do what my DM does. First let me explain. There was this kid, or knight, basically our only meat shield. He missed a ton of days in a row. This was mostly because he kept getting in trouble with his mom because of his grades. He could have quite easily gotten his grades up but he didn't so he missed a week or two. So our DM waited til he got back to do anything about it. He now finds minor et hilarious ways to mess with him. The first time his horse got stolen by the emerald claw as they ambushed us just outside the dungeon.

Sorry for the long story, but I find that the best way is to mess with them in a way that will make the adventure harder for them, yet wont effect the party too much. Our knight was the only one with a horse so it didn't effect us too much, but it irritated him because he used his horse alot.

Glass Mouse
2010-02-28, 11:54 AM
I'm unfamiliar with both 4th edition and your group, but if death is as cheap as you say, I wouldn't worry much.
Just, for the love of everything holy, don't make it out as, "You didn't show, so I killed your character." The proper presentation is, "I had a bit of trouble with making the plot fit together, so I made up the most reasonable explanation I could. Hope it's okay. Oh, and your rez scroll is over there."

I've had the problem once, and it's a pain! Luckily, I was able to make the planned plot unfold anyway (interestingly enough, it also included kidnapping of the plot-central character), but it was in coorporation with the group - who even suggested the kidnapping.
Maybe you could use that? If something OoC happens to disrupt the game, solve it OoC. No shame in asking your players for input; they're part of the story, too.

AFS
2010-02-28, 03:51 PM
Killing off PCs is bad karma for you as a DM. It does not look good on your curriculum. No-show and no-warning is really rude though.
Did you pick up the phone and ask where the hell your players were, instead of being at the table? Sometimes things just slip oneīs mind, which can be forgiven. If they just didnīt bother, what is the point of even having them play with you. They just self-labelled their PCs as expendable, and canīt expect any serious role in the campaign.

By killing them off just in absentia you pretty much lowered yourself to their level.

I agree here. Why would you kill someone for OOC things regardless of the OOC things.

You wore blue jeans to the game....YOU DIE!!!

You are bound to get two reactions to killing for a no show.
1. They can realize that they messed up and start showing up.
2. They will say FU if you are going to be that much of a tool then buh bye.

If it was me, I'd opt for #2.

You will just waste more time creating new characters cause you were slightly inconvienced.

Characters don't stop acting just because the player isn't there. Hey look a dragon is attacking the city. Well, George isn't here so Hurkall the wonder dwarf will just stand there and die.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-02-28, 04:06 PM
I agree here. Why would you kill someone for OOC things regardless of the OOC things.

You wore blue jeans to the game....YOU DIE!!!

You are bound to get two reactions to killing for a no show.
1. They can realize that they messed up and start showing up.
2. They will say FU if you are going to be that much of a tool then buh bye.

If it was me, I'd opt for #2.

You will just waste more time creating new characters cause you were slightly inconvienced.

Characters don't stop acting just because the player isn't there. Hey look a dragon is attacking the city. Well, George isn't here so Hurkall the wonder dwarf will just stand there and die.

It's considered good manners to read any clarifications the OP has made, for example that a free resurrection scroll was given to the PC's, that death in 4E is not much of a setback free rez or no and that it was because the plot was centred around those characters and their death was the most sensible short term solution.

Anyway with those points in mind, you're probably okay, OP. If the players really complain up a storm, give them a (short) lecture and then ask the people who turned up if they would mind going through the session again. That's what I'd do in similar circumstances, unless the players are okay with their characters not reacting to the plot for some reason and being distrusted and doubted because of it, in which case I might go for that.

Emmerask
2010-02-28, 04:14 PM
It's considered good manners to read any clarifications the OP has made, for example that a free resurrection scroll was given to the PC's, that death in 4E is not much of a setback free rez or no and that it was because the plot was centred around those characters and their death was the most sensible short term solution.

Anyway with those points in mind, you're probably okay, OP. If the players really complain up a storm, give them a (short) lecture and then ask the people who turned up if they would mind going through the session again. That's what I'd do in similar circumstances, unless the players are okay with their characters not reacting to the plot for some reason and being distrusted and doubted because of it, in which case I might go for that.

If you go through the story again make sure that the exact same people die again :smallbiggrin:

AFS
2010-02-28, 04:19 PM
It's considered good manners to read any clarifications the OP has made, for example that a free resurrection scroll was given to the PC's, that death in 4E is not much of a setback free rez or no and that it was because the plot was centred around those characters and their death was the most sensible short term solution.

Anyway with those points in mind, you're probably okay, OP. If the players really complain up a storm, give them a (short) lecture and then ask the people who turned up if they would mind going through the session again. That's what I'd do in similar circumstances, unless the players are okay with their characters not reacting to the plot for some reason and being distrusted and doubted because of it, in which case I might go for that.

I read it all and gave my opinion. If you consider that bad manners then oh well. Sorry

ScionoftheVoid
2010-02-28, 05:03 PM
I read it all and gave my opinion. If you consider that bad manners then oh well.

You mentioned rolling new characters. Despite the posts saying death isn't a big deal in that system and the OP saying even early on that he gave them a free-of-charge resurrection scroll. You also mentioned something about the characters not just standing still while their players aren't there when the OP was avoiding the consequences of that. They died because the plot needed them to do something and the players weren't there to say what. The plot wouldn't make sense unless the players were there to decide what their characters did, so the deaths were a quick fix. Having characters take actions which affect the plot of the game is best done when the players of those characters are there to decide those actions, I find.

I said it was considered good manners to read the OP's clarifications, I did not say that not reading them or reading them and ignoring them anyway was rude, though it was implied.

holywhippet
2010-02-28, 05:45 PM
Is there a reason you didn't let the other players control the missing PCs? Lack of character sheet or need for roleplaying each character individually?

Their being dead doesn't really effect things if you aren't applying any penalties. In the campaign I'm playing in, characters are often swapped in and out each session based on who actually bothered to show up.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-02-28, 06:01 PM
need for roleplaying each character individually

I think that's probably it, considering the talk of the plot not making sense unless if the characters sat around doing nothing. Could be wrong, of course.

valadil
2010-02-28, 06:10 PM
Is there a reason you didn't let the other players control the missing PCs? Lack of character sheet or need for roleplaying each character individually?



I think that's probably it, considering the talk of the plot not making sense unless if the characters sat around doing nothing. Could be wrong, of course.

Correctamundo! The situation that followed did in fact depend on input from everybody. And the two players that didn't show up had some extra info about it. It wouldn't make sense to have those characters play through the next few scenes without their knowledge intact. If I did that, the next time those players showed up they'd whine about wanting to have done things differently and we'd have to retcon a few conversations. Had it been me dishing out story non interactively or generic roleplay ("how much for a beer, good barkeep?") I wouldn't have felt the need to remove them.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-28, 06:12 PM
See, I keep telling people this, but they never listen. Death is just a little tick you put by your character sheet, it doesn't really mean anything. :smalltongue:

...But seriously, I got the most incredulous response when I (in a completely serious tone) informed a kid going through LotR for the first time that when Gandalf dies, he gets better. Because things like that happen.:smallwink:

Yeah, people have a lot of trouble with things like this in fantasy.

It's fantasy...once people are flying and conjuring fire and such, it's not a big leap to assume that other things may also be different.

In a 4e world, death would probably be treated like having the flu. Annoying, but worth it to avoid your mother in law.

valadil
2010-02-28, 11:24 PM
In a 4e world, death would probably be treated like having the flu. Annoying, but worth it to avoid your mother in law.

Right. If this were anything but D&D I'd have given them concussions, jailtime, jury duty, etc.