[3.5] More silliness related to (lack of) rules about death

[DragoonWraith]

Just noticed this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks), was amused:

In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how she died, has -10 hit points.
This is amusing because the Totemist's Rage Claws Soulmeld allows you to stay alive (and not incapacitated) at -(10 + invested Essentia). Which would mean that anyone with Rage Claws with at least 1 Essentia should (as far as I can tell) be impossible to kill, as dying would set their health to -10 and they would therefore be alive.

[Yuki Akuma]

Does essentia remain invested when you die? I wouldn't think so. Essentia is your own soul energy, and what happens to your soul when you die?

[faceroll]

The rules about death are fairly well covered in the "if there isn't an exception to that rule in the rules, it works like it does in real life" rule.

[the humanity]

I would assume the DM's discretion would be included here. D&D is a game that is going to be self fixing. all the time. immortality is never attainable.

[DragoonWraith]

Does essentia remain invested when you die? I wouldn't think so. Essentia is your own soul energy, and what happens to your soul when you die?
There's no rule saying it becomes uninvested, nor can I find one to say that you lose your Essentia when dead (the only listed way that Essentia would be forced out of a Soulmeld).

At least, as far as I can find.


The rules about death are fairly well covered in the "if there isn't an exception to that rule in the rules, it works like it does in real life" rule.
Where is that rule? The lack of that rule, as far as I know, has been a source of great hilarity (see drowning).


I would assume the DM's discretion would be included here. D&D is a game that is going to be self fixing. all the time. immortality is never attainable.
Duh. Of course it would never happen in a game. I was merely amused at the silliness of the RAW here. Hence, "amusing."

[sofawall]

I would assume the DM's discretion would be included here. D&D is a game that is going to be self fixing. all the time. immortality is never attainable.

Not true. Doesn't even require stupid-RAW shenanigans.

[HunterOfJello]

immortality is never attainable.


of course immortality is attainable!

it just means that the game is over or that character is now an NPC

[DragoonWraith]

Of course, I was talking about invincibility, which I believe is unattainable. Simply not-dying is just a matter of not having an age limit (Elan, Lich, plenty of other things), and being a suitably paranoid wizard. Or god.

[sofawall]

Of course, I was talking about invincibility, which I believe is unattainable. Simply not-dying is just a matter of not having an age limit (Elan, Lich, plenty of other things), and being a suitably paranoid wizard. Or god.

It is possible to be immune to damage. After that, not-dying becomes a lot easier.

[Sanguine]

It is possible to be immune to damage. After that, not-dying becomes a lot easier.

As long as you also have immunity to death effects and ability drain/damage.

[Yuki Akuma]

of course immortality is attainable!

it just means that the game is over or that character is now an NPC

Elan. No LA. No aging penalties and no maximum age.

Does this mean the campaign is over at level 1? Or it's impossible to play a PC Elan? :smallwink:

[Volkov]

As long as you also have immunity to death effects and ability drain/damage.

Implosion can defeat that.

[Sanguine]

Implosion can defeat that.

Huh, it's not a death effect weird. I guess we have to add being permanently Incorporeal to the list.

[Ravens_cry]

Huh, it's not a death effect weird. I guess we have to add being permanently Incorporeal to the list.
So the best way to be immortal. . .is to die (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghost.htm).

[Volthawk]

So is this now how to become invincible?

I can help! Contingency to escape if there is any weakness you can't cover.

[DragoonWraith]

Assuming no one comes up with a rule saying that Essentia is devested from soulmelds upon death, I'm pretty sure it is literally impossible for you to stay dead, by RAW.

I guess someone could hit you with Essentia-draining attacks before killing you. That would work. I doubt there's any way to be immune to those, either.

[Volkov]

So is this now how to become invincible?

I can help! Contingency to escape if there is any weakness you can't cover.

I wish your contigencies away. Then I disjoin all your buffs, then I implode you.

[NEO|Phyte]

Huh, it's not a death effect weird. I guess we have to add being permanently Incorporeal to the list.

Elan Psion Uncarnate running around with a Null Psionics Field? You're immune to nonmagical attack forms (which would arguably include those pesky instantaneous conjurations), and magical attack forms are shut off within the field. You'd want to be a gish, so you can beat things with a masterwork weapon while they flail uselessly at you.

[AslanCross]

Any invincibility trick is likely to get smote by the wrath of an angry DM. :P

[Volkov]

Elan Psion Uncarnate running around with a Null Psionics Field? You're immune to nonmagical attack forms (which would arguably include those pesky instantaneous conjurations), and magical attack forms are shut off within the field. You'd want to be a gish, so you can beat things with a masterwork weapon while they flail uselessly at you.

I wish your anti-magic field away, then your incorporeality away, then implode you.

[NEO|Phyte]

I wish your anti-magic field away, then your incorporeality away, then implode you.

I Reality Revision your wishes out of existance.

[Sanguine]

I wish your anti-magic field away, then your incorporeality away, then implode you.

Well if were bringing wish into this Contingent Wish so that if anyone uses Wish/Miracle/Reality Revision to get rid of any of the following [list of things that makes me invincible here] time rewinds itself to one round before that happens my turn. I then proceed to Wish away your spellcasting. These two could of course be combined making it all the more effective and all the more likely to get banned.( Yes from 99.99999999999% to the full 100)

[Volkov]

I Reality Revision your wishes out of existance.

I use my cleric cohort to miracle them back.

[Volkov]

Well if were bringing wish into this Contingent Wish so that if anyone uses Wish/Miracle/Reality Revision to get rid of any of the following [list of things that makes me invincible here] time rewinds itself to one round before that happens my turn. I then proceed to Wish away your spellcasting. These two could of course be combined making it all the more effective and all the more likely to get banned.( Yes from 99.99999999999% to the full 100)

Ah but I could instead use my cleric cohorts miracles to get rid of your contigencies.

[Optimystik]

"Bang! You're dead!"
"Nuh-uh!"
"Yeah huh!"

[Sanguine]

I use my cleric cohort to miracle them back.

That would require you know I have contingencies and that I don't kill your cohort before he can act. It also assumes the Contingency isn't in the list.

[Volkov]

That would require you know I have contingencies and that I don't kill your cohort before he can act. It also assumes the Contingency isn't in the list.

He/she/it/hermaphrodite is my cohort, I'd have as many defenses on him/her/it/hermaphrodite as I would myself.

[Sanguine]

He/she/it/hermaphrodite is my cohort, I'd have as many defenses on him/her/it/hermaphrodite as I would myself.

But if the contingency itself is in the list as soon as you get rid of it time rewinds and I have it back and eventually I will find a way to kill you(and your Cohort) unless you to have an infinite loop in which case I'll just give up and teleport away.

[Volkov]

But if the contingency itself is in the list as soon as you get rid of it time rewinds and I have it back and eventually I will find a way to kill you(and your Cohort) unless you to have an infinite loop in which case I'll just give up and teleport away.

In that case I gate in the level 187 black ethergaunt wizard a tablemate of mine used when I was mainly a player. He owes my lich wizard BBEG ten PP. Despite having a good 150 levels over him.

[Sanguine]

In that case I gate in the level 187 black ethergaunt wizard a tablemate of mine used when I was mainly a player. He owes my lich wizard BBEG ten PP. Despite having a good 150 levels over him.

I fail to see how that get's around my infinite loop, please elaborate?

[Optimystik]

Rewinding the silliness a bit...


Elan Psion Uncarnate running around with a Null Psionics Field? You're immune to nonmagical attack forms (which would arguably include those pesky instantaneous conjurations), and magical attack forms are shut off within the field. You'd want to be a gish, so you can beat things with a masterwork weapon while they flail uselessly at you.

1) You still have no defense vs. twinmaxed Orbs of Force.

2) Riverine Weapons (made of walls of force) defeat both precautions.

3) Any contingencies you have will be suppressed by your NPF/AMF anyway.

[Heliomance]

There is no truly invulnerable build, though Tlielaxu Ghola's Save Point comes close. Even Pun-pun dies to the Coat Hanger, though.

[The Random NPC]

The Coat Hanger? I would like to more about something that can kill Pun-pun.

[DragoonWraith]

I assume he means killing Pun-Pun before he can do the infinite loop/before he does the loop too many times.

[The Random NPC]

I understand now, it's in poor taste, but I get it.

[olelia]

Or more specifically...The Coat Hangar (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=271)

[Heliomance]

No, it's a specific build. And yes, it's in very poor taste. It's a horrific build. DON'T LOOK IF YOU'RE SQUEAMI**** involves using the Hindsight spell to look back in time to while the target was as yet unborn, then casting Fell Drain Detect Magic on the unborn foetus. The foetus gains a negative level, dies - and then returns as a wight. Still in its mother's belly.

[lightningcat]

Originally Posted by SRD
In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how she died, has -10 hit points.

This is amusing because the Totemist's Rage Claws Soulmeld allows you to stay alive (and not incapacitated) at -(10 + invested Essentia). Which would mean that anyone with Rage Claws with at least 1 Essentia should (as far as I can tell) be impossible to kill, as dying would set their health to -10 and they would therefore be alive.

This is suppose to mean that no matter how much damage that was dealt to cause the character to die, they are now at -10 hp. So if you deal 200 points of damage to a 1st level character, they are now at -10 hp, and dead.

And you should lose any invested essentia or soulmelds when you die, just as a wizard or sorcerer would lose any prepared spells, or unused spellslots, or a psionic character loses any power points.

[Myou]

No, it's a specific build. And yes, it's in very poor taste. It's a horrific build. DON'T LOOK IF YOU'RE SQUEAMI**** involves using the Hindsight spell to look back in time to while the target was as yet unborn, then casting Fell Drain Detect Magic on the unborn foetus. The foetus gains a negative level, dies - and then returns as a wight. Still in its mother's belly.

Time travel tricks don't work on a post-ascension Pun-Pun sadly.

[Ravens_cry]

Time travel tricks don't work on a post-ascension Pun-Pun sadly.
Time travel always works, your just have to do it. . .first. Now defining first in relation to time travel is the cause of much brain skull explodation.

[Jack_Simth]

So the best way to be immortal. . .is to die (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghost.htm).
Just make sure you have 15+ hit dice... and there aren't any Hunters of the Dead around... and you avoid Anti-magic fields (Rejuvination is Su).

Elan Psion Uncarnate running around with a Null Psionics Field? You're immune to nonmagical attack forms (which would arguably include those pesky instantaneous conjurations), and magical attack forms are shut off within the field. You'd want to be a gish, so you can beat things with a masterwork weapon while they flail uselessly at you.

Other than the pesky Orb of Force. And those rather annoying Soulknives, who CAN manifest the blade in a null-psionics field (with a concentration check).

And the Cheater of Mystria.

And a few other things (like someone who just tails you until you run out of PP).

[Volkov]

The simple fact that Vecna managed to nearly destroy reality in 2e and avoid any time travel retaliation proves that it cannot be that effective.

[Seatbelt]

He only nearly destroyed reality. If he had succeeded that would prove time travel ineffective.

[DragoonWraith]

This is suppose to mean that no matter how much damage that was dealt to cause the character to die, they are now at -10 hp. So if you deal 200 points of damage to a 1st level character, they are now at -10 hp, and dead.
What it's supposed to mean, and what it actually says, are two very different things. Hence the humor.


And you should lose any invested essentia or soulmelds when you die, just as a wizard or sorcerer would lose any prepared spells, or unused spellslots, or a psionic character loses any power points.
Find me the rule where it says that. I can't. I looked.

[NEO|Phyte]

1) You still have no defense vs. twinmaxed Orbs of Force.

2) Riverine Weapons (made of walls of force) defeat both precautions.

3) Any contingencies you have will be suppressed by your NPF/AMF anyway.


Other than the pesky Orb of Force. And those rather annoying Soulknives, who CAN manifest the blade in a null-psionics field (with a concentration check).

And the Cheater of Mystria.

And a few other things (like someone who just tails you until you run out of PP).
So, one spell (probably more if you dug deeper into things), one less-than-common weapon material, one generally sucky class, and outright cheese can hurt this thing. Not too shabby, considering the effort going into it.

For general stalkers, you COULD try beating on them with your (masterwork) stick, or just let your NPF go away so your (Su) Assume Equipment kicks back in, letting you 'walk' underground for a bit until you lose him.