Where to move?

[Froogleyboy]

Well, I was talking to grandmaw the other day and we decided that I'm getting the hell out of the US when I'm finished with college, so I've started putting aside money. But, then comes the question comes: Where should I move? I was thinking the Netherlands, but I no sprekenz the dutch (or anything other then English) Maybe England, but it shares many of the laws I'm trying to escape. So, my playgroung friends, where should I move?

[JeminiZero]

Well, I was talking to grandmaw

For some reason, I am suddenly reminded of red riding hood, commenting on "what a big mouth you have" to the wolf pretending to be her grandma. :smalltongue:

Where was I?

Oh yeah, how about Canada?

[Froogleyboy]

Burr, cold, but maybe . . . I don't know much about canada

[Innis Cabal]

Well, I was talking to grandmaw the other day and we decided that I'm getting the hell out of the US when I'm finished with college, so I've started putting aside money. But, then comes the question comes: Where should I move? I was thinking the Netherlands, but I no sprekenz the dutch (or anything other then English) Maybe England, but it shares many of the laws I'm trying to escape. So, my playgroung friends, where should I move?

Why? Do you understand how absolutly hellish this will be to do? How long will you be out of America? This isn't the best place to figure out a new local to move to. You should honestly do the research yourself.


Burr, cold, but maybe . . . I don't know much about canada

You already proved my point.

[Silly Wizard]

Maybe Australia?

There doesn't seem to be many English-speaking places that come to mind. Learning a language is a good thing, so maybe it would be a good idea to learn something?

I'd say somewhere awesome, like Norway or Egypt (if you can bear the heat).

[Froogleyboy]

anyone know what language Jamacians speak

[Daze]

I might be right behind ya man (depending exactly how much more stupid our political landscape gets)

Britain actually has a functioning parliment, so I wouldn't rule them out entirely. Ireland or Scotland might be a good backup to that.

Canada is cool, but stick towards Toronto or Vancouver... unless you wanna learn French.

And the people in the Netherlands all speak like 5 languages. And officialy they name both Dutch and English as their national languages, so I wouldn't let the no dutch-speaking thing bug ya too much.

To me personally, Japan would be totally awesome. Obvious language barrier there though, but dont doubt the ability of your mind to immerse itself in a new culture and learn a new language.

Last (but not least!)... you have Australia or New Zealand. Cool places both.

Hope that helps! Do do some research on those spots, see what the pros/cons are.

[Ponce]

Moving to other developed countries is very difficult. Especially Canada. Unless by "saving up money" you mean a couple hundred thousand dollars, you're in a bit of trouble. It helps to have family wherever it is you are going. What sort of degree will you have when you are done college?

[Sneak]

anyone know what language Jamacians speak

According to Wikipedia, Jamaican Patois. But the official language is English, and I would imagine most Jamaicans speak it.

I love Thailand, personally, but there is some unrest there.

[Krade]

I'm curious to know what sort of laws you are trying to escape... Hopefully not the kind that say it's bad to wear your neighbors skin as a leisure suit, because if that's the case, good luck finding a place that will say its okay.

Of course, there's only a few laws I can think of that would make someone want to move somewhere else, but that's getting into banned conversation material so I guess I'll just leave it at that.

[Amiel]

anyone know what language Jamacians speak

English

But with a noticeable Jamaican accent.


As for where you should move to; come to Australia, you'll like it here.

[Froogleyboy]

Hmm, What's it like down there

[Silly Wizard]

Jamaica is a horribad place to choose. My best friend is Jamaican, and from what she's told me, it's extremely racist there and crime is a HUGE problem there. Way worse than most places in the US.

[JeminiZero]

One thing to note is that even if you are living abroad, you still owe taxes to America (google "America Expat Taxes")

[Froogleyboy]

One thing to note is that even if you are living abroad, you still owe taxes to America (google "America Expat Taxes")

even if I renounce my citizenship

[Froogleyboy]

Jamaica is a horribad place to choose. My best friend is Jamaican, and from what she's told me, it's extremely racist there and crime is a HUGE problem there. Way worse than most places in the US.

The racisism is the only thing I have a problem with :smallfrown: I hate being white

[Maximum Zersk]

Come to Canada!

Come on, man! It's awesome here! Awesome people, awesome winters, awesome summers, awesome everything! We also never take our country seriously (though I'm guessing that's how it probably is in most countries.), so that's cool too.

There's not much accent unless you move to newfounland.

EDIT: Don't hate your own race, Froogley. Live with pride. :smalltongue:

[Felixaar]

Australia.

That is all.

[Crimmy]

Come to Mexico!
We have THE best beaches.
We have THE best climates.
We have AWESOME history.
It's CHEAPER!!!

[Froogleyboy]

Mexico sounds fun, but I've heard horror stories

[Starfols]

Japan isn't that bad, if you try to learn the language. They're very polite.

Spain and Germany are also nice places.

My vote's for Canada. We promise to be nice. :smallwink:

[Maximum Zersk]

Yeah, we won't hurt you! Not too much, anyway. :P

[Amiel]

Hmm, What's it like down there

Depends on where you are, really.
Although, if you're from a water plentiful country, you may not acclimatise that easily; it's skin-leatheringly dry here and there's the bushfires (further leeching moisture from the air). We're all on water restrictions at the moment; well, excepting Tasmania or the Northern Territory. But they're "special". Especially Tasmania. Ah, Tasmanian jokes.

Where I am, the climate is mostly temperate; however, even though it is temperate, be warned that summers over here can reach 40 and above. The summers are hot and the winters are somewhat cold, it doesn't snow here; well, it did, in the middle of summer. The worst thing about Melbourne, IMHO, is the four-seasons-in-one-day shtick it's got going. It can be annoying. You have no idea what clothes you need to wear, or bring for that matter, whenever you go out.
Victoria is temperate along its seaboard, but hotter and dryer as you move further up north.

Queensland is the Florida of Australia, it's the Sunshine State and called that for good reason, but it and Northern NSW are also lashed by wild weather from time to time, and experience intermittent high flooding. Quite serious flooding actually. Brisbane in particular has also introduced severe conditions to the use of water.

Western Australia is mostly dry desert, but like the rest of Australia also has areas of spectacular beauty. Perth mostly has very hot summers, summers that usually average the high 30s; for at least two weeks.

There are only two seasons in the Northern Territory; dry and wet. It's summer all year long over there, and you also have to contend with high humidity. If you want to visit it, it's best to do so in the wet.

South Australia is very much like northern Victoria (hot) and Western Australia (hot), Adelaide is very much among cities with the hottest summers in Australia; even rivaling Perth for most days with temperatures above 30.

Tasmania is very beautiful, with incredible scenery and unspoilt wilderness; but its population is so low that it's not very noticeable, there's probably more sheep down there. It is an island double the size of Taiwan with only 0.45% of the people.

Tropical cyclones also regularly dumps rain and high winds upon suspecting northern Australia. And sometimes earthquakes rock the nation, but they're also not very noticeable; most just register 3.

Things to watch out for; poisonous snakes, poisonous spiders, poisonous octopus, poisonous jellyfish, poisonous stonefish, poisonous platypus, cassowaries, emus kangaroos, magpies, saltwater crocodiles, poisonous kids.
Be careful of magpies in spring, they are known to swoop and attack passersby.

Having said all that, the air quality over here is extremely good. Many of the original vegetation is preserved and its cities and suburbs are dotted with parks and leafy green areas.


All temperatures are in degrees celsius; if you want I can edit in the fahrenheit equivalent.

[Crimmy]

Mexico sounds fun, but I've heard horror stories

Like what kind?
La llorona?
El grito del Cerro de las Campanas? (The Scream from the Hill of Las Campanas)
Cervantes walking around the Tree of the Tearful Night?

[Frozen_Feet]

Oooh, I know! Move here in Finland! Nice feet-and-a-half snow outside right now. And nearly everyone speaks English to some extent.

[Blaine.Bush]

What kind of laws are you trying to escape?

As for where you should move: Somewhere without internet.

[Syka]

First, look at what is required. Most developed countries have incredibly difficult regulations regarding living in the country for an extended period of time (in the EU, greater than 90 days I believe), and particularly for citizenship. I know you definitely need to prove that you have a stable, viable source of income so that you won't go crying for government assistance and will be able to leave the country if need be. That's one of the hardest things, since getting work visas without being sponsored by a company is....really tough. I've watched many international students dealing with that.

Also, I'm pretty sure the US actually doesn't allow you to renounce citizenship. Other nations will allow you to become a citizen and will recognize your dual citizenship, but I'm pretty sure you'll always been an American to the American government. At least, I think that's what was going on when I last checked...I know they won't recognize dual citizenship if you weren't born in another country.

Also, from my mom: she'd advise not giving up your citizenship (she thinks you are able to renounce it)...her reasoning- it's prudent in case you need to be rescued some day. :smallwink:



Personally, I'm hoping to live in Italy or France at some point, and the requirements are very tough to meet. It'll be at least another 5-10 years before I could even dream of having the capital to facilitate a move there.




Also, what laws are you trying to escape?

[Rae Artemi]

In australia everything is trying to kill you, especially Yahtzee. Don't do it man.

Though if you do move to australia and meet yahtzee, hug him. hug him real good.

[Sahaar]

Well, I was talking to grandmaw the other day and we decided that I'm getting the hell out of the US when I'm finished with college, so I've started putting aside money. But, then comes the question comes: Where should I move? I was thinking the Netherlands, but I no sprekenz the dutch (or anything other then English) Maybe England, but it shares many of the laws I'm trying to escape. So, my playgroung friends, where should I move?

CANADA! We rock at hockey *cough*

[Amiel]

As for where you should move: Somewhere without internet.

Antarctica; you'll make new friends with guys in suits.

[purple gelatinous cube o' Doom]

Japan isn't that bad, if you try to learn the language. They're very polite.



Except for the fact that Japan is an incredibly expensive place to live.

[Serpentine]

Come to Mexico!
We have THE best beaches.Pffft. Do your beaches squeak when you walk through them? If not, you can give up that claim right now.

We have THE best climates.Pffft. Well, actually, I don't know what the Mexican climate is like... I imagine mostly desert-like, though.

We have AWESOME history.Pffft. Actually, that's very true. Fair enough.

It's CHEAPER!!!Pfft. ...yeah, probably right.
Hmm, What's it like down thereAmiel has the climate stuff covered, but really it depends on what you're after. So... What are you after? The rest of this will be pretty scanty 'til you answer that.
On laws etc: Australia lags pretty far behind in terms of social progress. Casual racism is rampant, and it seems like in the last decade or so "race riots" have become almost commonplace (well, 1 every couple of years, anyways). But... it's all more on a large-scale basis. Most people, even some of the most racist, take individuals for themselves.
I don't think immigration would be too much of a problem for you, what with you being a white American an' all.

I've heard good things about New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries, but they're both on the cold side.

[Amiel]

I've heard good things about New Zealand [...], but they're both on the cold side.

Also, sheep.

We get to ride kangaroos to school and work down here.

[Voldecanter]

Learn About Other Countries before figuring where you want to live . You should really look for international Education if you want to leave the U.S ....and Some countries have world renown schools you could go to .

[Amiel]

I would actually advise you to travel around the world before you make a conscious decision to permanently move or relocate to a different country. This curbs the formation of any hasty decisions.

You wouldn't know what it's like in another country unless you experience it yourself. Hell, after your travels, you may wish to move back to your original country.

[Belkarsbadside1]

Lets put it to a vote. Whichever country comes up with the most votes, froogleboy will move there. :smallbiggrin:

I vote Ethiopia!!!

[Thursday]

Maybe England

Mmm, Well, get over here if you like your weather to be as utterly nonsensical as your legal system, and Queuing. Some Cliches are still true.
Its.. ok. I guess.. sort of, Yeah. Not sure I would if I wasn't a native.

The coffee is terrible, (though the tea is awesome) but there is Very, Very very good Beer... if thats a consideration.

[Krade]

The coffee is terrible, (though the tea is awesome) but there is Very, Very very good Beer... if thats a consideration.

Well he is talking about doing this after college so the beer could be a consideration.:smallwink:

[Anuan]

Lets put it to a vote. Whichever country comes up with the most votes, froogleboy will move there. :smallbiggrin:

I vote Ethiopia!!!

I'll second that :smalltongue:

In seriousness, though, Canada sounds like an awesome place, and if you move to Australia, move to South Australia, it's basically decriminalised what I suspect you're trying to avoid getting in trouble with the law for.

[Mystic Muse]

Just make sure you don't have to exterminate every animal you meet with extreme prejudice wherever it is you go. (IE Australia or South america)

I'm sorry, but I don't really know anywhere that fits your criteria.

[Amiel]

Be the first to live on the moon.

Moon; cheese is found here.

[Mystic Muse]

Be the first to live on the moon.

Moon; cheese is found here.

cheese is found here implies you are curently on the moon. if you are currently on the moon you probably live there. if you live on the moon Froogleyboy cannot be the first to live there because somebody else already does.

also, contrary to popular opinion, the moon is not made of cheese:smalltongue:

[Maximum Zersk]

Yes, everyone knows it's actually made of ether!

[Anuan]

I'll settle this. Phase, what're you made of? D:

[Amiel]

cheese is found here implies you are curently on the moon. if you are currently on the moon you probably live there. if you live on the moon Froogleyboy cannot be the first to live there because somebody else already does.

Moon cheese is different from earth cheese; one, there are no animals on the moon to make cheese from. Such cheese occurs naturally on the moon, it is the very "soil" and every "rock", that's why you don't see any samples brought back by NASA; they eat them all; Om nom nom nom.


also, contrary to popular opinion, the moon is not made of cheese:smalltongue:

Lies! I will not hear of such scandalous talk!

[Mystic Muse]

Lies! I will not hear of such scandalous talk!

it's not a lie! shh. if they hear you they'll come here D=

[Vaynor]

CANADA! We rock at hockey *cough*

Too soon man, too soon. :smallfrown:

[Krade]

Too soon man, too soon. :smallfrown:

I lol'd:smallbiggrin:

[Inhuman Bot]

Takeing advice from strangers on the internet as to where to move? What could possibly go wrong?

[billtodamax]

Knight to E4.

What?

In all seriousness though, Australia's a nice place. Italy is very beautiful, but you'd have to learn Italian.

[_Zoot_]

It really depends on what laws your trying to get around. Yep, that is all the advice I have to give right now =P

Might I add that this has been a very funny thread.

[Froogleyboy]

It's not just laws, I wan't somewhere with great culture. I also wan't something different then around here. Interesting wildlife is a must. Nature is important, and less prejudice would be nice

[Syka]

It's not just laws, I wan't somewhere with great culture. I also wan't something different then around here. Interesting wildlife is a must. Nature is important, and less prejudice would be nice

You don't have to move out of the US for that. Great thing about this country is we are so freaking huge you get almost every climate type and culture. I live in Florida and have freaking parrots that nest in my neighborhood. Not half an hour away there are bald eagle nests. Pick a state- it'll have different wildlife.

Also, many places aren't as prejudiced as you might think and plenty of countries are way worse than we are in the.

Personally I'd like to go to the pacific north west. It's beauitful up there.


So research your own country before condemning it.

Plus you don't need to go through diplomatic hassels then!

[Dallas-Dakota]

It's not just laws, I wan't somewhere with great culture. I also wan't something different then around here. Interesting wildlife is a must. Nature is important, and less prejudice would be nice

Ummm, if you want interesting wildlife and nature, then the Netherlands is a no-go for you for sure.

Our nature(the little we have) is mainly woods of planted trees and some fields and stuffs.
And our one ''mountain'' is a hill around 300 meters high.

[Satyr]

Well, the Wadden Sea on the Dutch, German and Danish Northsea coast has one of the highest biological diversity of wildlife of all biotopes in the world, most of it quite interesting and none of it very dangerous (always a bonus, if you ask me).

What do you regard as a "great culture"? Art? Museums? Theatre?

[Dallas-Dakota]

You want to go waddling around on cold windy beaches(which may or may not (suddenly) start flooding) looking for animals? Hmmmm....

But yeah, our northern seas(we polluted/fished out most of our southern stuff >.>) have quite some animal life, I suppose.

Though they're also getting smaller because there are fossil fuels under that area.(roughly)

[THAC0]

You don't have to move out of the US for that. Great thing about this country is we are so freaking huge you get almost every climate type and culture. I live in Florida and have freaking parrots that nest in my neighborhood. Not half an hour away there are bald eagle nests. Pick a state- it'll have different wildlife.

Also, many places aren't as prejudiced as you might think and plenty of countries are way worse than we are in the.

Personally I'd like to go to the pacific north west. It's beauitful up there.


So research your own country before condemning it.

Plus you don't need to go through diplomatic hassels then!

Well said.

Traveling around the 'states is a must - I didn't realize until I did so just how different places are.

Here, I fight over parking spots with moose and see bald eagles almost every day. When they were building my house they had to do a "bear check" every morning before they began construction.

Of course, I don't know if we meet your definition of "great culture," being as that is extremely subjective, but I second Syka's recommendation of checking out the Pac NW.

[YorickBrown]

if it's a permanent move: Germany
if it's a temporary move: Spain or Italy
if it's to get away from legal problems: Morocco (no extradition)

[Thufir]

It's not just laws, I wan't somewhere with great culture. I also wan't something different then around here. Interesting wildlife is a must. Nature is important, and less prejudice would be nice

England has the best culture in the world! (Not that I'm biased or anything)
Wildlife I'm not sure about, though I believe we do have some. Though the thing is, you'll find more cultural stuff in the cities, and more wildlife away from them. You may have difficulty reconciling these two criteria.

But, seriously, England is the best country EVARZ. :smalltongue:

[Riffington]

less prejudice would be nice

You can't have less. You can just have it directed somewhere you prefer. So really, just ask yourself: who do you want the inhabitants to be prejudiced against? Then, your choice become more clear :p

[Erloas]

It's not just laws, I wan't somewhere with great culture. I also wan't something different then around here. Interesting wildlife is a must. Nature is important, and less prejudice would be nice

I'm still wondering (as it seems many are) what types of laws you are trying to get away from. As it is most developed countries have fairly similar laws and virtually everywhere has some stupid laws around.

In terms of prejudice, you are more likely to run into that in other countries then your own. It might not be much, but it will be very obvious that you are different from everyone else if you go into an area completely different from where you grew up in. But just like everything else its going to change from one part of a country to another and from one person to another.

And as for great culture, thats an entirely subjective thing. The culture in many ways changes quite a bit from one part of the USA to another. The culture of a small town in Wyoming is going to be a lot different from a small town in Alabama. The culture of various large cities is a lot different too. The culture change from a big city to a medium size city to a small city can be quite drastic.

As for wildlife, thats also a really broad statement. For some people that might mean some birds and a few squirrels in a city of 10million, for others it means elk, deer, bears, etc. and days out camping where you don't see another person the whole time. I know when I was in Phoenix we had people talking about liking to live on the edge of town because they get all the wildlife like rabbits that will show up a couple times a year. Where I live now you see rabbits every day, we periodically have deer in the yards and walking down the streets, you hardly go more then a few weeks without seeing antelope if you are driving anywhere.

[Mystic Muse]

Should I just tell them the laws Froogley? Otherwise I don't think you'll get an answer you can use.

[blackfox]

Should I just tell them the laws Froogley? Otherwise I don't think you'll get an answer you can use.I'm pretty sure there's a board-rules reason he's not listing the laws. As has been alluded to throughout the thread. :smallconfused:

[Mystic Muse]

I'm pretty sure there's a board-rules reason he's not listing the laws. As has been alluded to throughout the thread. :smallconfused:

The first one probably counts. The second one doesn't really seem to violate board rules however. That's why I'm asking.

[Joran]

Well said.

Traveling around the 'states is a must - I didn't realize until I did so just how different places are.

Here, I fight over parking spots with moose and see bald eagles almost every day. When they were building my house they had to do a "bear check" every morning before they began construction.

Of course, I don't know if we meet your definition of "great culture," being as that is extremely subjective, but I second Syka's recommendation of checking out the Pac NW.

I agree with this. The United States is gigantic: you'll find climates, people, and culture matching whatever you want.

I live in the Washington D.C. Metro area, and we have a ton of Asian people here. As an Asian, I've never experienced any prejudice, and can eat good cuisine from any nationality. Lots of museums, playhouses, embassies means lots of activities to choose from.

The only major issue is the "laws". Outside of specifically telling us what laws you're trying to escape, I can't think of very many laws that I find absolutely objectionable here to the point of leaving.

[Lioness]

Once again unsure about the laws.

But Australia is awesome. In Melbourne you don't need a car, but it's freezing in winter (and even in autumn...). Epic public transport, etc.

Adelaide has festivals, festivals, wine, wine festivals, and more. It often gets to about 45C in summer, but rarely gets below about 10C in winter (in the daytime, that is). We have a big river that mutates fish, plenty of bizzare statues (though not so many as Melbourne), and only one D&D shop (with a really friendly owner)

etc.

Can't offer an opinion on other cities, except maybe Sydney. It's huge. When we went there I saw 5 McDonalds' restaurants on one street.
Sure, it was a long street, but still...

[Solaris]

Well, I was talking to grandmaw the other day and we decided that I'm getting the hell out of the US when I'm finished with college, so I've started putting aside money. But, then comes the question comes: Where should I move? I was thinking the Netherlands, but I no sprekenz the dutch (or anything other then English) Maybe England, but it shares many of the laws I'm trying to escape. So, my playgroung friends, where should I move?

You're from the Deep South. After having read through the thread, I'd recommend you move to one of the big cities north of the Mason-Dixon Line, like Chicago. Detroit's a pit. I can't speak for New York, as I haven't lived there. Travel is one thing, but to simply move out of the US just 'cause you don't like where you grew up?

The 'less prejudice' thing made me laugh out loud. It really did. I think you need to live in some other parts of America before you judge us all based on an Alabamian town.

[blackfox]

The first one probably counts. The second one doesn't really seem to violate board rules however. That's why I'm asking.Alright, fair enough.
Although... There's going to be prejudice pretty much everywhere, unfortunately. I think it's part of human nature. :smallfrown:

[Mystic Muse]

oddly, his second criteria would probably make wherever he moved have more prejudice not less.

[Kobold-Bard]

England is ok, but takes getting used to.

You will need a job quick-smart because people don't take kindly to people moving in and bumming benefits.

[icastflare!]

Edit: I find living here in nevada is nice. Cept for the high climate and occasional sand storm. Wanted to try Seattle when I was younger.

[Vaynor]

well you are looking to get away from the prejiduce? where are you from in america. midwest? North? West coast? East coast? North? South? deep south? I find living here in nevada is nice. Cept for the high climate and occasional sand storm

He lives in Alabama, if I recall correctly.

Come to California, it's nice here. :smallbiggrin:

[zeratul]

It's not just laws, I wan't somewhere with great culture. I also wan't something different then around here. Interesting wildlife is a must. Nature is important, and less prejudice would be nice

I'd agree with Syka on this point. There's various places in the USA with interesting culture, far less prejudice than in the south, and interesting nature and climates. I guess since we all seem to be routing for wherever we live here, I'd recommend new york state (central new york rocks). It's full of forests and mountains, has a wonderful history, an awesome climate (we experience seasons to their full with hot winters, frigid winters, and nice cool springs and falls) plus you have New York city. Also I imagine the prejudice issue is much more of an Alabama thing than a New York thing, as I've found that in a generally sort of way this is a pretty accepting state across the board. That said I woudln't reccomend moving to New York City.

[CrimsonAngel]

Clorado sure is beautiful..

And i'm in Texas!

[faceroll]

It's not just laws, I wan't somewhere with great culture. I also wan't something different then around here. Interesting wildlife is a must. Nature is important, and less prejudice would be nice

You ever live anywhere besides Alabama?

[Krade]

Indianapolis is nice. It has all the modern amenities of a large city without actually being a large city. It's pretty big, sure. But it's not Chicago or NYC by a fair margin. Also, I hear that there is culture around here somewhere... oh, wait, that was in my fridge.

No promises on the prejudice thing though. I never had a problem with it except for from rich people and that is mostly just hilarious. My absolute favorite thing about going to the Fashion Mall (that's it's actual name) is the looks I get from rich people... and the closest decent gaming store.

[Mystic Muse]

Indianapolis is nice. It has all the modern amenities of a large city without actually being a large city. It's pretty big, sure. But it's not Chicago or NYC by a fair margin. Also, I hear that there is culture around here somewhere... oh, wait, that was in my fridge.

No promises on the prejudice thing though. I never had a problem with it except for from rich people and that is mostly just hilarious. My absolute favorite thing about going to the Fashion Mall (that's it's actual name) is the looks I get from rich people... and the closest decent gaming store.

You live in Indy? are you going to be at Gencon this year?

[Amiel]

In Melbourne you don't need a car, but it's freezing in winter (and even in autumn...). Epic public transport, etc.

:( As much as I love Melbourne and especially so because I'm from there...I must heartily agree we have epic public transport; epic public transport FAIL that is; and some suburbs aren't even linked by some public transport services. You really do need a car in Melbourne, heck, you really need a car in Australia; period. Otherwise, it's a major inconvenience. Australia is ridiculously huge.


Can't offer an opinion on other cities, except maybe Sydney. It's huge. When we went there I saw 5 McDonalds' restaurants on one street.
Sure, it was a long street, but still...

Sydney is another city where the public transport fails; moreso than even Melbourne. Also, Sydney wasn't planned when built, and it shows; oh god, it shows.
Have fun finding your way around Sydney!

[Krade]

You live in Indy? are you going to be at Gencon this year?

Does Belkar like whores?


Sydney is another city where the public transport fails; moreso than even Melbourne. Also, Sydney wasn't planned when built, and it shows; oh god, it shows.
Have fun finding your way around Sydney!

Indy has decent public transit. It used to be better but I guess being awesome wasn't particularly high on the list of priorities. Indy was also one of the first cities (in the US at least) that was planned from more or less the beginning. Apparently the Free Masons had a hand in it or something, I don't know really, but they did a pretty good job. Most of the streets are straight and intersect at right angles, so, you know, bonus.

[Mystic Muse]

Does Belkar like whores?


no.:smallfrown:Just kidding. Hope to see you there.

[Maximum Zersk]

CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADA...

By the way, how about considering Canada? :smalltongue:
CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADA CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADA CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADA CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADA

[Solaris]

CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADA...

By the way, how about considering Canada? :smalltongue:
CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADA CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADA CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANA DACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADA CANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACANADACA NADACANADACANADACANADA

Eh.
Yeah, I got jokes.

[Dr. Bath]

Eh? What laws are you talking about? I'm not picking up any references, and don't see where people are getting ideas from...

Like lots of people have said, laws are often very similar in developed countries, and you're more likely to be descriminated against in a foriegn country as you're different.

Also I wouldn't give up your citizenship until getting a new one for your destination country, being a citizen of nowhere will not be fun.

[Kobold-Bard]

...Also I wouldn't give up your citizenship until getting a new one for your destination country, being a citizen of nowhere will not be fun.

Become a pirate!!! But not really

[Krade]

Become a pirate!!! But not really

Real pirates get shot from a mile away by high powered rifles and superbly trained snipers. All of them will get shot in the face at the exact same time.

[Vaynor]

Most of the streets are straight and intersect at right angles, so, you know, bonus.

Living in a planned city, I did not realize how awesome this is until I visited Boston. The streets there make absolutely no sense. :smalleek:

[Coidzor]

Go to Kentucky, just pick one of the two cities. Or Cincinnati.

[Dr. Bath]

Or, say London. It is incomprehensible. There is a whole eighth of the city that trains just don't go to (until recently) for no particular reason.

[Coidzor]

One you don't know or one that no one knows?

[Dr. Bath]

Well... It is Hackney, but really they just couldn't be bothered I think. Guess there wasn't enough call for it? Makes no sense in terms of a planned city though cutting off a huge portion of the population from transport ain't the smartest plan.

[Pyrian]

Living in a planned city, I did not realize how awesome this is until I visited Boston. The streets there make absolutely no sense. :smalleek:Boston is hilarious, but it is navigable. Out in the Massachussetts countryside/suburbia, though, there are all these three-way intersections with no streetsigns at all (apparently stealing them is a state sport). I have no idea how to find anything out there without a GPS system.

[Vaynor]

Boston is hilarious, but it is navigable. Out in the Massachussetts countryside/suburbia, though, there are all these three-way intersections with no streetsigns at all (apparently stealing them is a state sport). I have no idea how to find anything out there without a GPS system.

Well I'm sure once you got used to it it would be ok, but from a visitor's perspective it was pretty difficult.

My grandparents used to leave near Lake Abanakee in New York, and the county they were in (I forget the name of the county) had only one stoplight and maybe three street signs. :smallannoyed:

[Serpentine]

Oh just tell us the damn laws already. I mean, we're not trying to tell you how to break them, and we're not going to debate their merit...

Australia from the viewpoint of the criteria mentioned:

Wildlife: A no-brainer, I think. Everything here will be different to what you're used to, and there's somewhere to see the interesting stuff within a short distance of just about everywhere (several zoos, bushwalks of some description, I'm pretty sure just about every country town has a kangaroo colony, etc.).

Culture: Again, generally different to what you're used to. The big cities (at least Sydney and I think Melbourne, don't really know anywhere else) have plenty of multiculturalism. I think most towns have at least one "foreign" eating place. Mine (pop. ~25,000) has a stack of them (mostly Thai :smallsigh:). Look more central Australia or far north for aboriginal culture, though more and more towns have a "cultural centre" or similar.

Laws: I'll see if I can give an idea of what might be different to the US...
- Guns are not widely available. If you don't need a gun, it will be fairly hard to get one (though not impossible - my aunt has (had? They may have belonged to her ex husband) several. Gave her a scare when their house was robbed, and the thief discovered the gunsafe unlocked and laid them all out). Even if you do get one, their storage is very strict.
- Marijuana is decriminalised in at least one state (SA), probably two (ACT, may have renegged).
- As far as I'm aware homosexuality is legal everywhere (but only since 1984 in NSW! :eek:)
- Voting is compulsory.
- Discrimination of any kind is illegal, but unfortunately still depressingly common.

Prejudice: As I mentioned, casual racism is chronic. It's mostly directed at aboriginals. Generally, though, it's of a pretty harmless, arms-length bitching sort of level, and few people will actually act on their prejudice, especially face-to-face with an individual of whatever race. Sydney is quite troubled in this regard - Redfern Riots (aboriginals), Race Riots (young white men vs. young Lebanese men), attacks on Indians that may or may not be racially motivated (white vs. Indian), etc.
But, I do believe we're getting better in this regard, and in terms of day-to-day living it's reasonably irrelevant (although, especially for the aboriginals, it does have on-going quality of life impacts).

Anything else, you'll have to be more specific.

[Mystic Muse]

here is his request

"mainly, prejudice more then laws, but anti-marijuana laws are a big factor, and I want a country that doesn't promise free speech but not allow you to practice it"

Although I'm not sure quite what he means by the second.

[Serpentine]

Hmmm.
Not sure about the actual marijuana laws, except that, as I said, it's decriminalised in some places and we occasionally hear news about a big crop that's been found and burned. Bit more to be PMed.
Australia has no Bill of Rights. I don't believe we have any constitutional right to Free Speech. But, as far as I've noticed, actual oppression of free speech doesn't happen, and any hint of such an attempt is swiftly leaped upon by the media.

Other countries, can't say. I sort of suspect, with our without reason, that New Zealand is better at most things than Australia.

[Blaine.Bush]

here is his request

"mainly, prejudice more then laws, but anti-marijuana laws are a big factor, and I want a country that doesn't promise free speech but not allow you to practice it"

Although I'm not sure quite what he means by the second.

Translated: He doesn't want a country that promises the right to free speech but then fails to deliver.

I'm not sure where that's coming from though, as he lives in America.


Wildlife: A no-brainer, I think. Everything here will be different to what you're used to, and there's somewhere to see the interesting stuff within a short distance of just about everywhere (several zoos, bushwalks of some description, I'm pretty sure just about every country town has a kangaroo colony, etc.) ALL POISONOUS.

Fixed it for you. :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

Not true! Only a good part of the snakes and a couple of lizards! And an introduced frog! And lots of plants, and a mammal. And an octopus. And a lot of fish... And some other sea creatures... And a bird, if you listen to a girl I knew in high school... But not everything!

[Maximum Zersk]

I think he says that because of how much the First Amendment is misused in the states, maybe?

[Vaynor]

Not true! Only a good part of the snakes and a couple of lizards! And an introduced frog! And lots of plants, and a mammal. And an octopus. And a lot of fish... And some other sea creatures... And a bird, if you listen to a girl I knew in high school... But not everything!

Australia has some of the most poisonous/dangerous animals (http://www.yesaustralia.com/Curiosidades-animaising.htm) and the highest amount of venomous/poisonous animals out of any other country in the world. He has a point.

Edit: Also, one of the most dangerous animals on the face of the earth (the Box Jellyfish).

[Serpentine]

Yeah, but not everything is poisonous (most of the mammals, all of the birds (no matter what that girl said), most reptiles, etc). And I forgot about the jellyfish, though I suppose that's covered by "other sea animals". Also, jellyfish aren't the only nor (debatably) the most dangerous up there. The little bitty ones were cited as the main reason why I was stupid to ask whether ocean swimming was possible.
edit: Hey, I protest that site. There are no known deaths caused by whitetail spider bites. Also it's worth pointing out that the first 3 animals in that list are only found in the far north of the country. The vast majority of Australia's population lives well away from there.

[Vaynor]

edit: Hey, I protest that site. There are no known deaths caused by whitetail spider bites. Also it's worth pointing out that the first 3 animals in that list are only found in the far north of the country. The vast majority of Australia's population lives well away from there.

Well of course not everything is poisonous, but as far as countries go it gets pretty damn close. And it was the first link on google, I can't vouch for its credibility.

[Anuan]

all of the birds (no matter what that girl said)

Plovers are venemous, but I don't think dangerous to humans. That second part could be wrong.

[Serpentine]

Plovers are not venomous. They have spurs on their wings, but that's all.

Will Wiki to confirm.
edit:
There is a much-believed but incorrect myth that the spur can inject venom. The myth may have been based on fear of the Masked Lapwing's territorial behavior.

[Anuan]

Well, that's my mistake. Hrmn. I seem to recall something having venom on its wings... *shrug* Either way.

You win this round, Serpentine! You and your common sense! >.>

[Serpentine]

Like I said, they have little spurs on their wings (which apparently they can and do sometimes attack with, according to wikipedia)... I checked this out when aforementioned friend, who was absolutely terrified of them, insisted that they "squirted" poison at you out of the spurs to make you sick. Bird book said nothing, and now Wikipedia discounts the claim.

tl;dr: This is old news. Get newer misconceptions! :smalltongue:

[Maximum Zersk]

It's proven:

Serp IS Science! :smalltongue:

[Lioness]

:( As much as I love Melbourne and especially so because I'm from there...I must heartily agree we have epic public transport; epic public transport FAIL that is; and some suburbs aren't even linked by some public transport services. You really do need a car in Melbourne, heck, you really need a car in Australia; period. Otherwise, it's a major inconvenience. Australia is ridiculously huge.


It's epic compared to Adelaide.

We have buses that are frequently 15 minutes late. All of the buses go to and from the city, but hardly any link suburbs. The one that goes in a massive ring around the city links up many suburbs, but takes ages to get anywhere (seriously, it's often faster to go in and out of the city), if often late, and doesn't run on sundays. We have only one tram, which runs every 15 minutes. And I think 4(?) train lines, that also run infrequently. If you have the luck to get off at a non-major stop, your train is every hour, maybe every half hour in peak times.

Much much better to have a car. We survived in Melbourne for a week without catching a taxi once. The public transport was on time, frequent, and comfortable, and they have those awesome electronic boards that are actually accurate (we have one in the city, at a 'major' bus stop. It shows the times for one route. Out of about 5. And it's never accurate.

[Froogleyboy]

Australia sounds AWESOME!

[Thursday]

Australia has some of the most poisonous/dangerous animals (http://www.yesaustralia.com/Curiosidades-animaising.htm) and the highest amount of venomous/poisonous animals out of any other country in the world. He has a point.

All the freshwater fish are ok though.. right? Right...?

[Vaynor]

All the freshwater fish are ok though.. right? Right...?

If you mean other than sting-rays and scorpion fish (according to that site, keep in mind I have no actual knowledge of Australia).

[Mystic Muse]

If you see an animal in Australia it's best to either

A. stay as far away from it as possible
B. exterminate with extreme prejudice.

[Thursday]

Someone once told me all freshwater fish (Emphasis on fresh) were safe to eat, wondering if thats true?

Doesn't mean they couldn't put you down while they're alive though I guess, but I think all of the really bad Australian stuff was in the sea.

I'm going in a few months, and with my record of inocent fascination with all things creepy crawly.. I'm probably going back home in a box.

[Serpentine]

B. exterminate with extreme prejudice.They tried that. That's why Australia has an extraordinarily disproportionate number of endangered and extinct animals :smallannoyed:

Are catfish freshwater or salt? Cuz my dad was stung by one of those, once, and had to crawl his way to the emergency room.
I've also heard that freshwater fish can be less safe to eat, because they may have had greater contact with polutants. Not sure about that, though.

Someday I'll make a map comparing all the notorious animals' ranges to human population :smallsigh:

[Coidzor]

Well, the problem is that it's been done peace-meal. The wildfires can only travel so quickly.

Really, it just needs to be glassed from orbit and hope a better ecosystem evolves there in the next 600 million years.

[Crimmy]

Pffft. Do your beaches squeak when you walk through them? If not, you can give up that claim right now.
I'm not sure I quite understand this, so I'll concede for now.


Pffft. Well, actually, I don't know what the Mexican climate is like... I imagine mostly desert-like, though.
Bzzzt, wrong. We have practically every single kind of climate in here. Ranging from deserts to polar, with rainforests and jungles in the middle.


Pffft. Actually, that's very true. Fair enough.
Thanks.


Pfft. ...yeah, probably right.

It's true. :smallfrown:

[Krade]

Are catfish freshwater or salt? Cuz my dad was stung by one of those, once, and had to crawl his way to the emergency room.

I want to assume you don't mean catfish here. Catfish in the States are fairly harmless (and tasty) unless you try and catch them barehanded (then they can break you arm).

*adds catfish to ever-growing list of harmless animals that have Australian variants that can kill a grown man*

[Serpentine]

Definitely a native catfish. Think it was the spines on the back of its head. Dad caught it and it stung his hand. It was hurting quite a lot, so he called a poisons hotline or something like that and asked whether he should be worried. They told him to get to a hospital, but it was starting to feel better so why bother, right?
10 minutes later, as I said, he was crawling into the emergency room in absolute agony...

[THAC0]

Definitely a native catfish. Think it was the spines on the back of its head. Dad caught it and it stung his hand. It was hurting quite a lot, so he called a poisons hotline or something like that and asked whether he should be worried. They told him to get to a hospital, but it was starting to feel better so why bother, right?
10 minutes later, as I said, he was crawling into the emergency room in absolute agony...

What kind of catfish do you have?? People here sometimes catch catfish by standing in the water and sticking their arms down the fish's throat. You must have strange catfish!

[Krade]

What kind of catfish do you have?? People here sometimes catch catfish by standing in the water and sticking their arms down the fish's throat. You must have strange catfish!

This is what I was talking about catching them barehanded. You gotta be strong or the sucker'll break your arm.

[Serpentine]

This (http://australianmuseum.net.au/Estuary-Catfish-Cnidoglanis-macrocephalus-Valenciennes-1840) looks about right. I don't think ours are so big...

[Anuan]

Cnidoglanis macrocephalus

It's an eeltail catfish, and its pectoral and dorsal fins have venemous spines that can cause...a -lot- of pain.

Edit: Ninja'd by Serp.

[THAC0]

This (http://australianmuseum.net.au/Estuary-Catfish-Cnidoglanis-macrocephalus-Valenciennes-1840) looks about right. I don't think ours are so big...

I reciprocate! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWf5tcuhTjM

[Vaynor]

All catfish have spines (including American ones), but only some of them have poison in their spines.

[Krade]

My uncle is the one who told me about people who do that. He said it was immensely stupid (in case you couldn't tell by watching the video). Sure it's awesome, but it wouldn't be awesome if they break your arm and still don't let go.

[Dexam]

I've also heard that freshwater fish can be less safe to eat, because they may have had greater contact with polutants. Not sure about that, though.


The real danger with eating freshwater fish is potential poisoning when there are toxic cyanobacteria (often incorrectly referred to as 'blue-green algae') blooms in the waterways. The cyanobacteria blooms are usually worse in summer after there has been some rainfall. Phosphates and nitrogen compounds from fertilizers are washed into the lakes and rivers, which combined with the low oxygen levels in the water make for an ideal cyanobacterial breeding ground. The fish either directly ingest the cyanobacteria, or eat smaller creatures that graze on the cyanobacteria, and so their flesh and organs can become dangerously toxic if eaten.

It probably doesn't need to be said, but I'll say it anyway - don't fish or swim in fresh water if there's a large-scale toxic cyanobacteria bloom!

[Serpentine]

Ahhhh, the ol' blue-green algae... I remember it "fondly" from when I lived up the hill from the Hume Wier.

[Solaris]

Well, the problem is that it's been done peace-meal. The wildfires can only travel so quickly.

Really, it just needs to be glassed from orbit and hope a better ecosystem evolves there in the next 600 million years.

The problem is that they tried that, and that's how we got the current Australian ecosystem. A second go-round would probably wind up breeding krogan.

[Thursday]

I've also heard that freshwater fish can be less safe to eat, because they may have had greater contact with polutants. Not sure about that, though.

No no thats definitely very true, and the blue-green algae too, as described..

I meant safe to eat as in not poisonous, really.. Eating stuff out of many of the rivers near where I live would be very silly..
Don't know about the Catfish, it could probably be from either, which would make my theory incorrect.

Non catfish from unpolluted water should be ok? Precious little of that though.
EDIT: There might be in Australia, before I sound Preachy! We aren't all on overcrowded Islands with (alledgedly anyway) heavy industry and far too many people.

Ye gods I've gone off topic! Was about to rant about Mrs Thatcher and the destruction of British mining and the consequent run-off into rivers, but that would be out of place. and Dull. and Politics. So I didn't.

[Coidzor]

The problem is that they tried that, and that's how we got the current Australian ecosystem. A second go-round would probably wind up breeding krogan.

<_< Now we have to do that. >_> :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

Non catfish from unpolluted water should be ok? Precious little of that though.I'm pretty sure the catfish are edible, you just wanna be veeeery careful with them. And no, I don't know of any poisonous freshwater fish, although I've heard that carp taste like mud.

[llamamushroom]

They may not be poisonous, but the Murray Cod is a freaking monster. I think the largest on record was about 1.8m long. Also, they taste absolutely terrible.

I think that, as a rule of thumb, if something can be poisonous, Australia has at least one. And it'll be more dangerous than you could possibly imagine.

[Thursday]

I'm pretty sure the catfish are edible, you just wanna be veeeery careful with them. And no, I don't know of any poisonous freshwater fish, although I've heard that carp taste like mud.


I don't actually even eat fish... I don't really know why I've gone off on this. Something in the water perhaps?

[Syka]

Catfish are delicious if cooked right. Good ole Southern cuisine. :smallwink:



Darn it, got me craving some fried catfish now...

[SDF]

I used to fish for northern, bass, and walleye in Minnesota. I would ALWAYS throw back catfish. Blehg, ew, disgusting. Not only are they little monsters, but they taste awful IMHO.

[Froogleyboy]

I love me some catfish :)