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Katana_Geldar
2010-03-01, 09:57 PM
Okay, who here has mastered the art of Mr Special Policeman, the semicolon?

It not only is a good way to have a pause in a long sentence; but also is a way to police those brawling commas, particularly in a list.

Blaine.Bush
2010-03-01, 09:59 PM
I don't think you used it quite correctly there.

Not sure though. -_-

Rauthiss
2010-03-01, 10:00 PM
I agree; the semicolon is a much maligned piece of punctuation.

Blaine.Bush is correct, though. In your sentence, a comma would have been appropriate; a semicolon is used for two related, but independent, clauses.

13_CBS
2010-03-01, 10:00 PM
I gotta say, this thread title is the shortest one I've ever seen. :smallconfused:

Belkarsbadside1
2010-03-01, 10:00 PM
I don't think you used it quite correctly there.

Not sure though. -_-
why don't you go check; it would be useful to know.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2010-03-01, 10:02 PM
Okay, who here has mastered the art of Mr Special Policeman, the semicolon?

It not only is a good way to have a pause in a long sentence; but also is a way to police those brawling commas, particularly in a list.

I would like to say that the use of a semicolon in the last sentence is, if not incorrect, frowned upon. Vimes would disapprove.

Semicolons are used to separate two (for want of a better word) separate but connected thoughts in a sentence, but cannot be simply used to replace a comma.

Edit: Me mam's a book editor; I pick up this kinda thing around her when she's working.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-01, 10:09 PM
I was aware that it was wrong when I did it but wanted a semicolon anyway, can I be excused now?

Rauthiss
2010-03-01, 10:10 PM
I was aware that it was wrong when I did it but wanted a semicolon anyway, can I be excused now?
See, now there a semicolon would have been correct, at least from what I've been taught. :tongue:

Blaine.Bush
2010-03-01, 10:10 PM
I was aware that it was wrong when I did it but wanted a semicolon anyway, can I be excused now?

Nevar! Now finish your vegetables.

Starscream
2010-03-01, 10:15 PM
How to use a semicolon: the most feared punctuation on earth. (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon)

Funny stuff.:smallsmile:

Serpentine
2010-03-01, 10:21 PM
Semicolon RAWKS!

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-01, 10:24 PM
"My aunt's hairy knuckles are magnificent indeed, but I have no desire to stroke them." :smallbiggrin:

TheCountAlucard
2010-03-01, 10:26 PM
I've been using semicolons for a while now; I'm not really sure why they're getting this special attention...

snoopy13a
2010-03-01, 10:27 PM
I don't like semicolons; thus, I rarely use them.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-01, 10:37 PM
I don't like semicolons; thus, I rarely use them.

That's not how you use one! You used a conjunction there; you don't need a semicolon.

SinisterPenguin
2010-03-01, 10:44 PM
This thread is seriously meta.

Fake edit: ;

TSGames
2010-03-01, 10:47 PM
Okay, who here has mastered the art of Mr Special Policeman, the semicolon?

It not only is a good way to have a pause in a long sentence; but also is a way to police those brawling commas, particularly in a list.

While I'm not too shabby with my American-English grammar and punctuation, I do have a special love for the oft misused semicolon.

Also, ";" is perhaps the most intriguing thread title I've seen since I joined these boards.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-01, 10:52 PM
I was actually wondering if the forum would let me use a one-character title; it surprised me when it did.

Vaynor
2010-03-01, 10:54 PM
Okay, who here has mastered the art of Mr Special Policeman, the semicolon?

It not only is a good way to have a pause in a long sentence; but also is a way to police those brawling commas, particularly in a list.

You used a semicolon incorrectly. :smallfrown:

Commas are how you pause in a long sentence, and semicolons are used to join two separate and distinct, yet usually related clauses.

snoopy13a
2010-03-01, 10:55 PM
That's not how you use one! You used a conjunction there; you don't need a semicolon.

I used a conjuctive adverb; therefore, I can use a semicolon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon

Starfols
2010-03-01, 10:56 PM
I never really learned what the official usage for a semicolon is; I always used a rule of thumb.

I remember the difference between colon and semicolon was dependent on the importance of the clause, or something.

Worira
2010-03-01, 10:57 PM
That's not how you use one! You used a conjunction there; you don't need a semicolon.


Note that if the second clause is preceded by an adverb, such as accordingly, besides, then, therefore or thus, and not by a conjunction, the semicolon is still required.

You just got Strunk'd; I just got Ninja'd.

snoopy13a
2010-03-01, 10:57 PM
You used a semicolon incorrectly. :smallfrown:

Commas are how you pause in a long sentence, semicolons are used to join two separate and distinct, yet usually related clauses.

They are also used for complex lists. For example, President Obama has lived in Jakata, Indonesia; Honolulu, Hawaii; Los Angeles, California; New York, New York; Chicago, Illinois; and Washington, D.C.

Rauthiss
2010-03-01, 10:58 PM
You used a semicolon incorrectly. :smallfrown:

Commas are how you pause in a long sentence; semicolons are used to join two separate and distinct, yet usually related clauses.

Fixed your comma splice. :3

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-01, 11:00 PM
They are also used for complex lists. For example, President Obama has lived in Jakata, Indonesia; Honolulu, Hawaii; Los Angeles, California; New York, New York; Chicago, Illinois; and Washington D.C.

Fixed, I don't think that last comma needed to be there.

Starscream
2010-03-01, 11:02 PM
Also, ";" is perhaps the most intriguing thread title I've seen since I joined these boards.

Seriously, who could possibly resist clicking it just to see if it is actually a thread about semicolons, or something more mysterious and sinister?

Incidentally, the Sinister Semicolons would make a good name for a rock band.

Edit:
As would My Aunt's Hairy Knuckles

snoopy13a
2010-03-01, 11:08 PM
Fixed your comma splice. :3

We could have another thread dedicated to the dreaded comma splice. I use comma splices quite often, so I have to be extra careful.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-01, 11:13 PM
Out of interest, has anyone read Lynne Truss' book "Eats, shoots and Leaves"?

Hilarious and it's she who calls the semicolon the special policeman.

Blaine.Bush
2010-03-01, 11:38 PM
Fixed, I don't think that last comma needed to be there.

No, it does. Washington, D.C. is just like Los Angeles, California. As far as comma usage goes, anyway.

Vaynor
2010-03-02, 12:02 AM
Fixed your comma splice. :3

Ouch, that was embarrassing. Don't worry, I added a conjunction. :smallsmile:

rayne_dragon
2010-03-02, 01:45 AM
I used a conjuctive adverb; therefore, I can use a semicolon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon

I seem to recall that you still don't use one if the conjunctive adverb is monosyllabic. Of course, grammar class was a semester ago, so I may remembering things wrong.

Lioness
2010-03-02, 02:49 AM
Out of interest, has anyone read Lynne Truss' book "Eats, shoots and Leaves"?

Hilarious and it's she who calls the semicolon the special policeman.

Yes, and while I agree with the sentiment, the book in its entirety irritates me.

I consider myself fairly decent at using a semicolon, but I also try to avoid it whenever possible. Not because I'm scared of using it incorrectly, but just because it often isn't necessary. Those to use semicolons regularly just to show that they can inevitably make a mistake somewhere along the line.

I mean, just look at Malouf: Fly Away Peter, last page: "There was in there a mourning woman who rocked eternally back and forth; who would not be seen and was herself." (Malouf, Fly Away Peter, Page 134)

Just...erk. Just...no.

So though I love them and take pride in being able to use them, I try to see whether there is a more eloquent/less subjective alternative.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-02, 03:10 AM
I was thinking of calling this thread the Grammararians in the playground, but I rather like the very short and sweet threat title.

Lioness
2010-03-02, 03:19 AM
short and sweet threat title.

Hah.

"Don't you dare! If you even think about it I'll ;"

Fifty-Eyed Fred
2010-03-02, 03:58 AM
Semicolons are the allies of every aspiring gentleman; their usage, while baffling to some, can truly increase the digestibility of a most deliciously delectable sentence.

Lioness
2010-03-02, 04:15 AM
Semicolons are the allies of every aspiring gentleman; their usage, while baffling to some, can truly increase the digestibility of a most deliciously delectable sentence.

And that's the sort of sentence I wouldn't use a semicolon in. A full stop works just as well.

I could've used one there too, but I resisted! Resist the urge to ridiculously semicolon!

Of course, it's acceptable if it's grammatically correct.

Btw..."Strunk'd" is my new favourite verb

raitalin
2010-03-02, 04:31 AM
“If you really want to hurt your parents, and you don’t have the nerve to be a homosexual, the least you can do is go into the arts. But do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites, standing for absolutely nothing. All they do is show you’ve been to college.” - Kurt Vonnegut

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-02, 04:35 AM
Matthew Stover told me that once. :smallamused:

Fifty-Eyed Fred
2010-03-02, 04:38 AM
And that's the sort of sentence I wouldn't use a semicolon in. A full stop works just as well.

But I would. :smalltongue:

I just like longer sentences for some implaceable reason; perhaps because they give me a platform from which to fully voice my thoughts. :P

InaVegt
2010-03-02, 08:43 AM
I was wondering wether the following is a valid use of the semicolon as well.

To be a true gentleman, one must know how at least the basics of etiquette; one must understand how to treat other people with regards to one's social status; one must be able to defend the honour of their wife and daughters; and finally, one should have had a proper academic education.

Blaine.Bush
2010-03-02, 08:50 AM
I was wondering whether the following is a valid use of the semicolon as well.

To be a true gentleman, one must know how at least the basics of etiquette; one must understand how to treat other people with regards to one's social status; one must be able to defend the honour of their wife and daughters; and finally, one should have had a proper academic education.

Looks good.

Serpentine
2010-03-02, 08:51 AM
I generally have a colon before my lists (and there's a lot of them in my essay :smallsigh:), but I don't know whether it's necessary. In fact, I'd really like to know...

InaVegt
2010-03-02, 08:56 AM
Looks good.

The first error I blame on not being a native speaker of English, the second on my tired brain focussing on the semicolons rather than the content.

Weimann
2010-03-02, 09:02 AM
Semicolons hold a special place in my heart; with them, you can write two separate sentences without actually separating them.

Vaynor
2010-03-02, 09:18 AM
I generally have a colon before my lists (and there's a lot of them in my essay :smallsigh:), but I don't know whether it's necessary. In fact, I'd really like to know...

Unnecessary, but acceptable, as far as I know. However, they are usually used to define parts of a set rather than a generic list.

truemane
2010-03-02, 09:25 AM
“If you really want to hurt your parents, and you don’t have the nerve to be a homosexual, the least you can do is go into the arts. But do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites, standing for absolutely nothing. All they do is show you’ve been to college.” - Kurt Vonnegut

"All male writers, incidentally, no matter how broke or otherwise objectionable, have pretty wives. Someone should look into this." -Kurt Vonnegut

Off-topic, but entertaining all the same.

The only time I would ever use a semi-colon (outside of an academic essay; which, since leaving school, I don't have to write any more) would be to separate items in a list that are themselves separate by commas.

And even then I'd try to find another way to phrase it. Semi-colons just look so strange on the page that it would be jarring.

Serpentine
2010-03-02, 09:27 AM
It just so happens that I emailed my essay to myself today, so I can give some examples (spoilered for length and boredom quotient :smalltongue:):


Probably the oldest source is oral tradition; spoken histories, genealogical lists, legends, folk tales, songs, ballads, interviews, anything by which a person verbally communicates some detail of the past to their audience in the present.

The vast majority of historical sources are missing; they simply no longer exist.

Every historian has his own background; his own society, place within it, and perception of it; his own training and response to and application of it; his own experiences and the ways in which those have affected him; his interests, goals and hypotheses; his bias, prejudices and ideologies – positive, negative, overt or subtle; and every other inherent and acquired aspect of his character.

Conversely, simply acknowledging one’s innate subjectivity and the infeasibility of true objectivity can stimulate the historian to counter the former and strive for the latter through vigorous scepticism of the sources, seeking evidence ubiquitously, thorough comprehension of the sources, avoidance of any claims unsubstantiated by the evidence, receptiveness to criticism, and open-mindedness; for, even if true objectivity is unattainable, some is better than none and he who thinks he has reached it is most likely a long way off.

Errors and alterations need to be identified and accounted for; even the most minor and trivial of errors can have grave implications for the conveyed meaning and interpretation of a text.

Oral history can refer to: traditions of the past passed down from person to person, or performer to audience, over generations as opposed to being recorded in writing; modern-day collection of the memories and stories of living people; and performed pieces such as songs, poetry and ballads, and folklore, fairy tales and legends.

Burials are a specific archaeological type that, in addition to (and by virtue of) being a repository of other evidence types such as art and tools, are rich sources of information; from them, can be found evidence for rituals, spiritual beliefs, religion, clothing, technology, weapons, sometimes even toys, food, and other things depending on the type of grave.

In fact, art is far older and more universal than writing; images, statuary and architecture can reveal an incredible array of details and ideas beyond that which objects or manuscripts can, and often from earlier in history.

Others, such as the Bayeux Tapestry, depict a specific historical event and can give us valuable information on what occurred, or at least – and as usefully- on what the creator or commissioner believed or wanted others to believe occurred; similarly, portraiture and artworks that depict particular people can tell us what they looked like, what they or the artist wanted the viewer to think they looked like, or the features popular imagery believed they looked like or associated with them.

Obtaining and confirming this information can be problematic; for example, not all coins are dated, or if they are it may be based on the year of rulership of the present regent whose exact relative chronological reign may not be known, or they may be struck with the name of a previous regent, or they might have some other temporally confusing feature.

Moreover, like most other sources of evidence, maps can be biased according to the requirements or prejudices of their creators, as well as available materials and data, external pressures, philosophies and other subjective factors; cartography is rendered as much social construction as geographical reproduction.

I told you I use them a lot... And once I started picking out one or two, I figured I may as well throw in 'em all :smalltongue:
Actually, pretty sure the first one should be colon, with at least one semicolon at the end before "anything".

Drakevarg
2010-03-02, 09:43 AM
“If you really want to hurt your parents, and you don’t have the nerve to be a homosexual, the least you can do is go into the arts. But do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites, standing for absolutely nothing. All they do is show you’ve been to college.” - Kurt Vonnegut

Or that you have a lexophilic father, giving you a college-level vocabulary by 3rd grade. I've been using semicolons forever, and no college edumacation to be seen. (Perhaps I could have used a semicolon to connect those two sentances, but I didn't want to risk it; it would have defeated the point of my statement if I wound up using it incorrectly.) :smalltongue:

KuReshtin
2010-03-02, 09:52 AM
The big question, though, is: How do you pronounce it? Does it have the -ih at the end of semi, or does it have the -ai at the end?

Drakevarg
2010-03-02, 09:54 AM
Depends on your accent, I'd suppose. I pronounce it either way, swapping at random. (At first I thought I pronounced it "Sehmaicohlohn", but after playing with the word outloud for a few seconds I realized I actually jumped between the two pronunciations.)

Eethihr, Aithihr.

Lioness
2010-03-02, 03:04 PM
I pronounce it semeeeeecolon

Vaynor
2010-03-02, 03:28 PM
Probably the oldest source is oral tradition; spoken histories, genealogical lists, legends, folk tales, songs, ballads, interviews, anything by which a person verbally communicates some detail of the past to their audience in the present.

Semicolon is used incorrectly here. The second half of your sentence is not an independent clause, so a semicolon cannot be used. When in doubt, try to split the sentence by making the semicolon a period. If either of the sentences don't make sense, you're using the semicolon incorrectly. The list is also not complex, so a semicolon is not necessary (each part of the list can be easily separated by a comma).


The vast majority of historical sources are missing; they simply no longer exist.

I'm not sure if it's used incorrectly here, but "They simply no longer exist." is a bit of an awkward sentence and the original sentence would be much better off with a comma instead.


Burials are a specific archaeological type that, in addition to (and by virtue of) being a repository of other evidence types such as art and tools, are rich sources of information; from them, can be found evidence for rituals, spiritual beliefs, religion, clothing, technology, weapons, sometimes even toys, food, and other things depending on the type of grave.

I'm not sure about the semicolon use here (looks a bit iffy to me) but the comma after "them" is unnecessary.

Note: Other than being in Advanced Placement English Language classes, I have no grammatical authority. I probably made some mistakes and missed some of yours as well.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-02, 07:53 PM
That last sentence is just too long anyway

Prime32
2010-03-02, 08:02 PM
Now I want to see if the boards let you use a space as a title. Or failing that, the character between these quotes: "*".

EDIT: Huh. They censor Alt+0160?

pendell
2010-03-03, 09:03 AM
Fear will keep the local sentences in line; fear of this semicolon.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Flickerdart
2010-03-03, 09:08 AM
Using semicolons isn't hard;
You just put one at the end of every line, like this;
I don't see what's so confusing about it;

Death, your friend the Reaper
2010-03-03, 09:21 AM
Okay, who here has mastered the art of Mr Special Policeman, the semicolon?

It not only is a good way to have a pause in a long sentence; but also is a way to police those brawling commas, particularly in a list.

; has a special place in my heart :smalltongue:

I used to be Death; your friend the Reaper. Yet sadly, with the new board, people would have been sending things to one person called "Death", and another called " your friend the Reaper". I think Rawhide, (or one of the lovely name change mods) commiserated me afterwards.

I still have flashbacks to the fateful day I lost my semicolon :smallfrown:

Horrorshow
2010-03-03, 02:35 PM
As a college student, I find the semicolon so overused that it actually bothers me. People simply don't know when to use it, and even worse, how to use it.

Technically, the semicolon is used to separate two independent clauses; a clause is a group of words containing at least a subject and predicate. This means that whenever you use a semicolon, you should also be able to use a period ("Technically, the semicolon is used to separate two independent clauses. A clause is a group of words containing at least a subject and predicate"). They can also be used in complex lists already involving commas, but that only rarely occurs.

However, strictly in terms of taste, one should almost never use a semicolon. I find that they tend to be overused to the extreme. They're the new commas: blatantly ubiquitous, usually unnecessary, and oftentimes incorrect. Semicolons should only be used when the second clause is distinct and independent (to qualify grammatically) yet somehow intimately related to the first clause (so as to actually have a point being used at all).

Colons are used for lists They can also be used instead of quotation marks, dashes, or parenthesis to indicate the placement of a quote. I know there are several other accepted uses of colons but these are the ones off the top of my head. Anyone who's really curious or needs to know for an essay or something should check Wikipedia.

Of course, all of this applies only to English.

EndlessWrath
2010-03-03, 02:50 PM
That's not how you use one! You used a conjunction there; you don't need a semicolon.

I always thought you could; therefore, I use them this way in papers fairly often. Those papers have been proofed by grammar nazis; furthermore, I was congratulated for its usage. I like this thread; it seems sillier than even random banter.

-Wrath

I know that last one was a stretch XD

Vaynor
2010-03-03, 03:26 PM
I always thought you could; therefore, I use them this way in papers fairly often. Those papers have been proofed by grammar nazis; furthermore, I was congratulated for its usage. I like this thread; it seems sillier than even random banter.

My impression was that when used in that manner it was optional.

Lioness
2010-03-04, 03:20 AM
As a college student, I find the semicolon so overused that it actually bothers me. People simply don't know when to use it, and even worse, how to use it.

Technically, the semicolon is used to separate two independent clauses; a clause is a group of words containing at least a subject and predicate. This means that whenever you use a semicolon, you should also be able to use a period ("Technically, the semicolon is used to separate two independent clauses. A clause is a group of words containing at least a subject and predicate"). They can also be used in complex lists already involving commas, but that only rarely occurs.

However, strictly in terms of taste, one should almost never use a semicolon. I find that they tend to be overused to the extreme. They're the new commas: blatantly ubiquitous, usually unnecessary, and oftentimes incorrect. Semicolons should only be used when the second clause is distinct and independent (to qualify grammatically) yet somehow intimately related to the first clause (so as to actually have a point being used at all).

Colons are used for lists They can also be used instead of quotation marks, dashes, or parenthesis to indicate the placement of a quote. I know there are several other accepted uses of colons but these are the ones off the top of my head. Anyone who's really curious or needs to know for an essay or something should check Wikipedia.

Of course, all of this applies only to English.

Pretty much my opinion. Whenever people overuse them just to show that they can, they either tend to use it incorrectly or with no taste or style. I find that I rarely need to use semicolons. There are occasions where they help, but not often.

Cobra_Ikari
2010-03-04, 03:24 AM
I usually use semicolons when I already have something I want to make a compound sentence, but either can't decide on the proper conjunction, already used that conjunction recently, or really want to use a specific conjunctive adverb. *nods*

Does that satisy you, oh grammatically inclined members of the Playground? =3

Deth Muncher
2010-03-04, 03:45 AM
Does that satisy you, oh grammatically inclined members of the Playground? =3

No, but if you hum a few bars...

EndlessWrath
2010-03-04, 04:44 AM
My impression was that when used in that manner it was optional.

I always was taught that was one of the correct usages of it.

-Wrath

Lioness
2010-03-04, 05:48 AM
You can not use a semicolon preceding a conjunction - 'and', 'but', etc.

However, you can use a semicolon preceding words such as 'however', 'therefore', 'thus', etc.

And I refuse to use a semicolon on this topic, just to show that it's possible to resist the temptation. Please forgive me if I have already used one.

Silence
2010-03-04, 12:55 PM
I've actually never used a semicolon; I find them unnececary.