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Corey
2010-03-02, 10:57 AM
One spell component for Polymorph Any Object is a wisp of smoke. Is it safe to assume that can be in a spell component pouch along with everything else?

Anyhow, that's just my warmup question. My real one is -- if I have the Polymorph Any Object spell, what should I polymorph MYSELF into?

I gather the new form keeps the Cha and Wis scores of the old, and otherwise picks up the new ability scores. The characters I'm asking this about are both human or spellscale bards, with stat arrays around

Cha 20
Con 10
Dex 10
Int 14
Str 8
Wis 9

before inherent and enhancement bonuses, both of which I assume would transfer to the new form. (Uh, would they?)

Solar Angel comes to mind ... I assume one would pick up four ability stats, a lot of natural armor, size/appearance, maybe a slam attack, and not much else?

Still a pretty good deal, especially since the spell wouldn't keep having to be recast ...

Optimystik
2010-03-02, 11:01 AM
One spell component for Polymorph Any Object is a wisp of smoke. Is it safe to assume that can be in a spell component pouch along with everything else?

Yes, or you could just burn a leaf or something...


Anyhow, that's just my warmup question. My real one is -- if I have the Polymorph Any Object spell, what should I polymorph MYSELF into?

You -> Elan

Enjoy living forever

kamikasei
2010-03-02, 11:13 AM
One spell component for Polymorph Any Object is a wisp of smoke. Is it safe to assume that can be in a spell component pouch along with everything else?

In a phial or something, sure.


before inherent and enhancement bonuses, both of which I assume would transfer to the new form. (Uh, would they?)

For physical stats or intelligence, I don't believe inherent bonuses would carry over (I might be wrong here), and enhancement bonuses or anything else from items would only apply if the item could still be worn - if it gets absorbed in to the new form, it stops working for the duration of the spell.


Solar Angel comes to mind ... I assume one would pick up four ability stats, a lot of natural armor, size/appearance, maybe a slam attack, and not much else?[/QUOTE]

Remember that you'd have to be level 22 to have the HD to PAO in to a Solar.

Corey
2010-03-02, 11:33 AM
For physical stats or intelligence, I don't believe inherent bonuses would carry over (I might be wrong here),



Offhand I'm not thinking of a reason why that would be ...



Remember that you'd have to be level 22 to have the HD to PAO in to a Solar.

Oops. Misread. Planetar would be a lesser form of the same goodness ... as it were.:smallbiggrin:

Corey
2010-03-02, 11:35 AM
You -> Elan

Enjoy living forever

Not if I'm killed in the usual way ...

Irreverent Fool
2010-03-02, 12:47 PM
Not if I'm killed in the usual way ...

You have the ability to cast polymorph any object. The "usual way" should not apply to you.

obnoxious
sig

ScionoftheVoid
2010-03-02, 12:49 PM
Does the HD limit of Polymorph carry over? The examples in determining the duration include turning a inanimate objects into humans, which couldn't be done if the HD limit carried over. The vague exceptions to the polymorph spell don't really help.

ericgrau
2010-03-02, 12:59 PM
Anyhow, that's just my warmup question. My real one is -- if I have the Polymorph Any Object spell, what should I polymorph MYSELF into?

...

Solar Angel comes to mind ... I assume one would pick up four ability stats, a lot of natural armor, size/appearance, maybe a slam attack, and not much else?

PAO functions like polymorph except as described (which likewise functions like alter self except as described), so there's a 1 HD per caster level cap, max 15 HD. Solars have 22 HD. To make matters worse, you keep your own lousy wizard BAB and HP. In fact, anything you can polymorph into is pretty darn weak. Trying for good stats is a dead end. The trick is to find forms with interesting form related special abilities you can exploit. Like flight, more attacks, special attacks and so on. But not abilities prohibited by alter self or polymorph like SLAs. Oh, and target someone with full BAB and lots of HP if you can.

Figuring out your polymorphed stats tends to be time consuming, so try to figure that out for all forms you like before the gaming session begins.

hamishspence
2010-03-02, 01:04 PM
The revised version of Shapechange (presented in Rules Compendium) has a HD cap of 25 Hit Dice.

So it does make sense that PAO has a HD cap as well.

Corey
2010-03-02, 01:40 PM
Yeah. Shapechange if one wants to be really serious.

Still, stat bonuses and so on could be nice, since they're essentially free.

Eldariel
2010-03-02, 01:53 PM
This thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870058/List_of_INT_Forms_for_Polymorph_Any_Object) may be of interest to you.Polymorph (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872134/The_Complete_Polymorph_Thread_3.5)-thread also offers some forms of interest.

Regardless of what Ericgrau says, having extremely high stats compared to your normals can be exceedingly useful. Permanent Type-changes are likewise very, very useful for qualifying for various things. Who really cares about your BAB and HD at that point? You'll still be 100 times tougher than you used to be and able to shred most martial CR-appropriate encounters to shreds, especially with buff spells if you so desire. You can also easily get into 50s in AC with Natural Armor Bonuses.


But mostly, I'd use PAO for Int increase.

Oh, and:

One spell component for Polymorph Any Object is a wisp of smoke. Is it safe to assume that can be in a spell component pouch along with everything else?

By the wording of Spell Component Pouch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellComponentPouch), that's a fair bet.

ericgrau
2010-03-02, 02:01 PM
You're polymorphing into something with half your level in CR, not to mention the effects of your BAB and HP. You may get good ability scores, but not good stats overall. Only good for ability score checks like strength checks for tripping (not to mention the size bonus). Yet another reason to go for special attacks instead of direct fighting (unless taking advantage of many attacks or etc.).

As for the spell component, I believe he was having trouble conceptualizing it. Ya, a tiny vial of smoke works, and is assumed to be in your spell component pouch already.

Eldariel
2010-03-02, 03:09 PM
You're polymorphing into something with half your level in CR, not to mention the effects of your BAB and HP.

You're gaining the physical stats of something half your CR. There's a huge difference. You can wear equipment; the monster generally doesn't. You can use buff spells; the monster generally doesn't. You can use its defensive capabilities coupled with your spellcasting while the monster is generally stuck using physical attacks.

Honestly, the CR doesn't matter one bit in using Polymorph. And there are plenty of creatures with CR equal to their HD; on level 15, you can PAO into CR 15 creatures. And you're generally much better at being that creature than that creature. If you can get 30 Str without an investment, well, that's gonna be pretty damn big an improvement over your normal 10 Str. Sure, you won't attack if not necessary, but you'll be capable to. Your BAB only affects your To Hit bonuses generally as you'll fight with natural weapons anyways and with caster-buffs, you can generally get quite massive To Hit bonuses. Your To Hit will probably be behind a Fighter you'd buff, but not by that much, and you'll school CR appropriate encounters any day of the week.

Corey
2010-03-02, 03:13 PM
The key point to me is that one can get Str and AC benefits FOR FREE.

Polymorph once at the beginning of the campaign, and stay in that form until somebody dispels it or something (or until another one seems more advantageous for some specialized reason). What's not to like?

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-02, 03:16 PM
PAO has the added benefit of giving you mental stats. If you're a low int type, you can actually GAIN intelligence from having the spell cast on you.

Corey
2010-03-02, 03:17 PM
There IS a limitation on taking non-humanoid forms, which is that you need some way to overcome the fact that natural attacks don't start out as being magic. But as long as your abilities to use gear are like those of your native form, this isn't a problem.

Volkov
2010-03-02, 03:49 PM
I always found shapechange to be underwhelming. I want to take the form of the tarrasque or great wyrm red/gold dragon for the lulz damnit, and without mitigation or skill pumping cheese, an epic spell version of the same thing would be very hard to cast, and for pcs it'd also take a crapton of gold, xp, and time.

Oslecamo
2010-03-02, 03:53 PM
I want to take the form of the tarrasque or great wyrm red/gold dragon for the lulz damnit, and without mitigation or skill pumping cheese, an epic spell version of the same thing would be very hard to cast, and for pcs it'd also take a crapton of gold, xp, and time.

Illusions? If you just want the lulz factor illusions can do pretty much anything for you.:smalltongue:

ericgrau
2010-03-02, 04:47 PM
You can wear equipment; the monster generally doesn't. You can use buff spells; the monster generally doesn't. You can use its defensive capabilities coupled with your spellcasting while the monster is generally stuck using physical attacks.

Just find a town that sells dinosaur mail? I believe the polymorph errata forced your equipment to meld into your new form because of severely broken abuse before that errata. Circumventing that to intentionally break the game does not a fun campaign make. You can also buff someone that's not half the party's level in CR and get more out of your buffs. And that's assuming you're using decent buffs like haste or greater invisibility. If you mean spending a half dozen rounds on every minor +2 buff out there then I hope those aren't combat rounds b/c the fight is over before you're done. As for spellcasting:



If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

That limits your options a great deal. Yeah, you can get a few points of AC or a swim speed or such, but you can't cast while in the form of some big beast.