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Nich_Critic
2010-03-02, 12:47 PM
I'm wondering what kinds of guidelines people here use for encounters that don't deal with monsters. Things like violent storms (that are actually dangerous and not just DM plot storms), pits of water that require skill checks, diseases, etc.. I especially want to know how to determine the average difficulty of a skill check at a given level, since there are so many ways of adjusting them.

For example, I want to make a storm for a CR 3 party. Stormwrack has guidelines on hazards in a storm, but doesn't list a CR for those hazards. I know what skill checks the party should be making, but I don't know what kinds of storms they are expected to survive, and what to give them if they do. Should I look at traps for guidelines?

Also, how do you assign exp for RP encounters? I usually give them exp appropriate to their CR, plus or minus an amount representing the difficulty they would have faced if they had failed (So diplomacy with a pissed off great wyrm give much more experience then a pissed off farmer),.

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-03-02, 02:15 PM
I'm wondering what kinds of guidelines people here use for encounters that don't deal with monsters. Things like violent storms (that are actually dangerous and not just DM plot storms)…
CRs for some dangerous storms are in the DMG and SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/wildernessAndEnvironment.html#weather). For example, a duststorm is CR 3 and a tornado is CR 10. For other types of storms, you’ll probably have to make an estimate based on how much damage it can cause to an exposed party.

Note that many of the storm types listed don’t do damage to characters. These ones generally don’t have CRs listed. For the most part, they are only a problem if facing another encounter at the same time. These storms then don’t have their own CR but can adjust the EL and grant ad-hoc experience adjustments to other encounters. The size of the adjustment, of course, depends heavily upon the penalties associated with the storm and the level of the party. A constant -2 penalty to most checks and nothing else would merit a small adjustment for a level 1 party, but no adjustment to a level 20 party, for whom a -2 penalty is virtually meaningless.


…pits of water that require skill checks, diseases, etc..
That’s basically a type of pit trap. Look up the CR guide for traps (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/traps.html).


I especially want to know how to determine the average difficulty of a skill check at a given level, since there are so many ways of adjusting them.
Well, assume the character is good (but not necessarily specialized) at the skill. Max or near-max ranks. That means they have a base level+3 to the score. Then figure on a first or second priority ability score modifying that. With an elite array, that comes to an additional +2 to the skill at first level. Make further adjustments based on ability-enhancing magic at higher levels. That will give you a good score to base your calculation on. You will need to make ad-hoc adjustments for lesser-used skills, though, as it is less likely a party will have anyone good at that skill.

For example, a 10th-level adventure requires a high Knowledge (arcana) check. Since that is a key skill for arcanists, the party will probably have someone with a high score, so we can really make it tough. So… 13 ranks + 6 ability score… We can assume even a relatively low-powered party has a character with +19. Set it to DC 30 for a 50/50 chance of success. Change the DC by 1 for each 5% difference you want in the success rate.

Now, if the adventure requires Craft (basketweaving), you cannot assume maximum ranks for a high level party. Though they may have magic that can replace it. That’s going to be one you’ll have to custom-fit for your party.


For example, I want to make a storm for a CR 3 party. Stormwrack has guidelines on hazards in a storm, but doesn't list a CR for those hazards. I know what skill checks the party should be making, but I don't know what kinds of storms they are expected to survive, and what to give them if they do. Should I look at traps for guidelines?
Once again, you’ll have to make estimates. Look at what kind of damage they can do and how easily it can do that damage. Compare it to other threats, including traps.


Also, how do you assign exp for RP encounters? I usually give them exp appropriate to their CR, plus or minus an amount representing the difficulty they would have faced if they had failed (So diplomacy with a pissed off great wyrm give much more experience then a pissed off farmer),.
Basically that. “RP” in this way is just another way of overcoming the challenge presented by that NPC.

AslanCross
2010-03-02, 05:00 PM
If by "RP Encounter" you mean beating a monster they could have fought through talking, the same XP applies.

I'd think you could use the same rule of thumb if they're trying to convince the city council to do something--just assign the NPCs CRs according to their NPC class levels or whatever. Alternatively you could simply give the PCs XP as if it were a regular "challenging" encounter for their level. (Give XP to a 10th level party as if the encounter were against an EL 10 encounter whether or not the NPCs involved actually amount to EL 10.)

Of course, if it's a plot-significant encounter (the war council in Red Hand of Doom, for example) you could treat it as a "boss encounter" and give them XP as if it were 2-3 encounter levels over party level.

BRC
2010-03-02, 05:15 PM
I usually throw XP out the window and just level the party up every couple adventures. If you are going to grant them XP, you'll have to think about these types of things.

1) What was the Risk to the PC's
2) How much was the PC's skill/choices a factor in their success.

Combats are generally long enough that luck tends to more or less average out. Which means that you should avoid giving XP and Treasure for somthing that's decided by one roll.


For the Storm, I would run it flowchart-style.

A Storm starts brewing, PC's make a check to keep control of the ship. A crewmember got washed overboard by a wave, do they swim out to save him? Throw him a rope?. Lightning strikes the ship, the mast is now weakened. Do they run onto the deck in hopes of shoring it up before the wind snaps it off? Or do they stay in the relative safety of belowdecks. If the mast breaks, do they try to cut it loose, or do they just handle the penalties from having their mast in the water.
As you keep throwing new problems at them from every angle, tally up how successful they were.


....curses. I'm running a nautical campaign that had been kind of short on the nautical stuff (Since we tried Ship to Ship combat once, and it was kind of boring, and I couldn't think up any other good nautical stuff to do, until now...)

bosssmiley
2010-03-02, 05:22 PM
XP for non-monster encounters. Difficult to implement well in WOTC D&D (13, or 10, encounters and you *ding*) without turning the XP system into XBox style 'collect 'em all' non-achievements (as Pathfinder half did with their Asheefmun Feets brainfart).

I know one guy who thought up a rudimentary Wilderness Survival XP system (http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/02/frontier-experience-points.html) for his old ed. hexcrawl game. You could expand that for more social situations, or use the abstracted Glory system from the Pendragon RPG:

10 = doing something well (compose an extemporaneous lyric poem, bring down the quarry in a hunt, defeat a Saxon warrior)
100 = doing something impressive (kill a monster singlehanded, unhorse a famous knight, become known as a paragon of chivalry)
1,000 = doing something amazing (you get made a Knight of the Round Table, earn a crown, see the Holy Grail, etc.)

Old D&D got around all the whole role-playing XP mess by staying abstract. It awarded minimal XP for beating monsters (100 per HD, divided between the party) and the bulk of XP for loot recovered. Role-playing XP? You're expected to role-play in order to get what you want from NPCs without fighting them. What, you want XP for turning up next?

This sane and sensible idea was eventually discarded in the story-obsessed 90s as 'ruining verisimilitude'. Yeah. In a game where the whole purpose of adventuring was to get rich or die trying the idea of rewarding people who made the big score was discarded as not being in keeping. *durp*

Irreverent Fool
2010-03-02, 08:01 PM
I don't know where official guidelines are for this stuff, but many of the later Dungeon Magazine adventures for 3.5 and the published adventures have ELs listed for numerous non-combat encounters. Getting ahold of a number of these may provide a basis for estimating guidelines.

I tend to just make it up as I go along though. You may check the Lame mage at arsludi (google it, don't have the link handy). He has many insights into this sort of thing and did an article specifically on it, iirc.

obnoxious
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