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Gan The Grey
2010-03-03, 01:18 AM
Inspired by a current thread on Plane Shift's material focus, I am now curious as to what metals or combination of metals would be associated with the more well-known planes of existence.

PLAYGROUND! I CALL UPON YOUR EXPERTISE IN SOLVING THIS DIRE CONUNDRUM!!!!

My interest - I'm wanting my players to be able to discover these metals with a little research, but I don't want to just TELL them what the combos are. This is an E6 game, so the actual Plane Shift spell won't be available to them, but I would like them to be able to access the various different planes through specially designed rituals, rituals that will require the use of a specific metal or combination of metals in order to be successful.

Regardless of my own personal use of this information, I think it would be cool to be able to answer this question without having to resort to 'your spell component pouch possesses the metal fork needed to cast this spell'.

I would like to have these metals make sense from a real world perspective. I want my players to be able to say, "Okay, I want to reach the plane of Fire, and since brass is often associated with fire, then brass would be the most likely metal required to contact that plane."

Since there are so many different planes, maybe certain metals are needed to work in concert with other metals in order to connect to specific types of planes, like maybe iron has to be used with another metal to connect to any of the elemental planes, for example.

Please provide reasons for ideas, and I will update the main post with arguments, suggestions, and final decisions. USE OF DnD SPECIFIC METALS IS ENCOURAGED!!!!

Prime Material Plane
Aluminum for the material plane. Reason? It's the most common metal in the Earth's crust. 2 Votes.

The Inner Planes

The Elemental Plane of Fire
Tungsten has the highest melting point of all metals, so I'd suggest that.
I'd say brass is a better fit than tungsten for the Plane of Fire. It's got a better colour for it, it's the primary material used for the City of Brass, and it was discovered far earlier in history. I think it's thematically appropriate that the elemental planes use the easiest metals, with the outer planes using more exotic materials. 2 Votes


The Elemental Plane of Air
I'd suggest using a metal that is highly conductive, so Copper.
Aluminum, because it's so light-weight.
Silver could work for the plane of air, as it is also a great conductor. And "Every cloud has a silver lining"


The Elemental Plane of Water
Mercury, since its liquid state already. 2 Votes

The Elemental Plane of Earth
Cobalt comes from the creature's name, because medieval miners blamed the sprite for the poisonous and troublesome nature of the typical arsenical ores of this metal (cobaltite and smaltite) which polluted other mined elements.
Cold iron, simply because it's generally found deep, deep within the earth. 2 Votes.

The Positive Energy Plane
Gold for its conductivity and association with divinity.

The Negative Energy Plane
Black bronze.
Thinaun, a metal which captures the souls of those who die close to it, making it thematically appropriate for necromancy.

The Outer Planes

Elysium NG
Frystalline

The Beastlands NG/CG
Crude, uncast iron.

Arborea CG
Ironwood.

Ysgard CG/CN
Ysgardian Heartwire

Limbo CN
Nothing yet.

Pandemonium CN/CE
pandemonic silver, a sort of silver that shrieks when exposed to the wind.

The Abyss CE
Abyssal Bloodiron

Carceri CE/NE
Cast, black iron.

The Gray Waste NE
Nothing yet.

Gehenna NE/LE
Nothing yet.

Baator LE
Baatorian Steel

Acheron LE/LN
Nothing yet.

Mechanus LN
Copper for Mechanus since its probably the most important metal needed for machines.

Arcadia LN/LG
Nothing yet.

Mount Celestia LG
Solarian Truesteel

Bytopia LG/NG
Nothing yet.

The Outlands TN
Steel, because it's a hub and easy to get to. 2 Votes

Transitive Planes

Astral Plane
Gold, because the Astral Plane is Timeless, and gold similarly tends to be unreactive and unchanging.
Astral Driftmetal. 2 votes

Ethereal Plane
Nothing yet.

Plane of Shadow
Platinum, Because it's nuggets look like a dark shiny metal.
Black Bronze.
Beryllium.
Boron.

Gralamin
2010-03-03, 01:33 AM
Here is my first thoughts:

Plane of Fire: Tungsten has the highest melting point of all metals, so I'd suggest that.

Plane of Air: I'd suggest using a metal that is highly conductive, so Copper.

Plane of Earth: Cobalt, due to its etymology with Kobold:
. The name of the element cobalt comes from the creature's name, because medieval miners blamed the sprite for the poisonous and troublesome nature of the typical arsenical ores of this metal (cobaltite and smaltite) which polluted other mined elements.

Plane of Water: Mercury, since its liquid state already.

Plane of Shadow: Platinum, Because it's nuggets look (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Platinum-nugget.jpg) like a dark shiny metal.

Astral Plane: Gold, because the Astral Plane is Timeless, and gold similarly tends to be unreactive and unchanging.

Gan The Grey
2010-03-03, 01:51 AM
Alright, I like the ones above me...but I'm going to throw my own ideas in there.

Plane of Earth - Cold iron, simply because of its association with being found deep, deep within the earth.

Plane of Water - I second Mercury.

Plane of Air - Aluminum, because it is so light-weight.

Baator - Baatorian Steel, of course.

Wish I had the freakin Arms and Equiment on me so I could throw out some more of those...

Positive Energy Plane - Gold for its conductivity and association with divinity.

If someone could help me figure out which plane is the equivalent of Tarterus, I'd throw Adamantine as that because Virgil in the Aeneid claims that Tarterus has adamantine gates.

Ooo, I say Copper for Mechanus since its probably the most important metal needed for machines.

Fayd
2010-03-03, 02:15 AM
Aluminum for the material plane. Reason? It's the most common metal in the Earth's crust.

Silver could work for the plane of air, as it is also a great conductor. And "Every cloud has a silver lining"

Thematically, I like brass for fire.

Just my 2 cents.

sonofzeal
2010-03-03, 02:23 AM
Aluminum for the material plane. Reason? It's the most common metal in the Earth's crust.
It's also pretty much impossible to refine with medieval technology. Much easier with magic, especially if you can harness [Electricity] spells well, but that might be getting a bit too magepunk for most.



Far Realms: cancer. With extra tentacles.

Thurbane
2010-03-03, 02:24 AM
Dragon Magazine 120 (1E) has the entire list for this, but the list you're building looks good.

Gan The Grey
2010-03-03, 02:26 AM
Dragon Magazine 120 (1E) has the entire list for this, but the list you're building looks good.


Hey, if you can find a link or post a few of their ideas, that would be AWESOME.



Far Realms: cancer. With extra tentacles.

On another note, HUH? lol

Thurbane
2010-03-03, 02:29 AM
I've got it in the Dragon Magazine Archive CD (issues 1-250), but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it, due to copyright.

It's a lot less interesting than your list so far, just stuff like "Bronze, note A" or "Silver, note C"...

Superglucose
2010-03-03, 02:41 AM
Negative energy plane: Black Bronze

Alloys need to be allowed, and I think demiplanes (as I said in the other thread) should be highly specific. For instance, "steel" is enough to get to, say, the Outlands (it's one of the most common and easy to come by metals) but to get into Richard Caius' Demiplane you would need steel that is x% iron y% nickle and z% carbon within an error of +-k%

Grumman
2010-03-03, 02:42 AM
Pandemonium has pandemonic silver, a sort of silver that shrieks when exposed to the wind. Similarly there's Astral Driftmetal, Ysgardian Heart and Abyssal Bloodiron, Frystalline for Elysium, Solarian Truesteel for Celestia.

I'd say brass is a better fit than tungsten for the Plane of Fire. It's got a better colour for it, it's the primary material used for the City of Brass, and it was discovered far earlier in history. I think it's thematically appropriate that the elemental planes use the easiest metals, with the outer planes using more exotic materials.

I agree with cold iron for the Plane of Earth.

For the Negative Plane you could use Thinaun, a metal which captures the souls of those who die close to it, making it thematically appropriate for necromancy.

Superglucose
2010-03-03, 02:44 AM
Oh if we're including fantasy medals then make Black Bronze the metal for shadows because it *is* black unlike platinum nuggets (or platinum).

EDIT: Steel for the outlands: it's common and the Outlands are the "hub." Easy to get to, for instance.

JaronK
2010-03-03, 02:47 AM
Why isn't the Astral plane Astral Drift Metal? That works just fine. There's actually a bunch of specific metals in IIRC the Planar Handbook.

JaronK

Ponce
2010-03-03, 02:48 AM
The Dragon 120 list is honestly not very interesting. Iron and Gold just appear dozens of times. Rather than using forks you should come up with your own system, and not limit yourself to metals, if you want a unique material for each plane. Unless your players are all chem majors, there aren't enough interesting and well-known metals to go around, in my opinion.

sonofzeal
2010-03-03, 02:51 AM
On another note, HUH? lol
Er, have you spent much time looking up Far Realms fluff and monsters? I heartily recommend the Kaorti and their various pets (Fiend Folio) and Tsochari (Lords of Madness). A fork made of cancer fits perfectly.

Asbestos
2010-03-03, 02:56 AM
Plane of Water: Mercury, since its liquid state already.


Because a solid Mercury fork makes so much sense?

Anyway, it isn't just the type of metal that matters, the size of the fork matters too. So we don't really need a unique metal for every single plane.

For example, a large silver fork could go to the Astral Plane (because its so huge and how silver is a color associated with the Astral) while a smaller silver fork could be used for a different plane.

I'd also suggest more alloys and classic metals than things like Aluminum, Tungsten, and Mercury. Next up someone is going to suggest Beryllium or some such nonsense.

Classically there were only 8 or so known metal elements:
Gold
Tin
Copper
Silver
Lead
Iron
Mercury
Bismuth

Something to note is that Uranium oxide (the natural ore) was used to color pottery glazes in ancient times, but the metal itself wasn't really discovered until the 1700s.
Cupronickel was also used in ancient times, a copper alloy that contains nickel, but nickel itself wasn't described until the 19th century.
Cobalt ore was known in ancient times and was used for its color, but smelting the ore always resulted in its oxide and also released toxic arsenic fumes so the pure metal wasn't 'discovered' until the 18th century.
Supposedly the weapons of the Terracotta soldiers had their metal tips coated with Chromium (aka Chrome)

If fast forward to the 17th century or so we can add in:
Zinc
Platinum

As you can see, our knowledge of the elements didn't really progress until at least the 1700s.

Because of the inclusion of Platinum we can probably go ahead and let the D&D world know about Zinc too.


D&D Metals:
Adamantine
Mithral
(Others?)

4e has Cobalt Dragons and Orium (a magical red metal) Dragons, so we can add those to the list of metals available to the D&D world as well.

Any alloy/amalgam of the above metals is fine too.


Also, am I the only one that sees a problem with requiring the use of a metal specific to a plane to get to that plane? I suggest you don't use anything that can't be found on the Material plane.

Gan The Grey
2010-03-03, 02:58 AM
Is it fair to need metal FROM a plane to get TO a plane? What about needing certain alloys to get to planes, like needing an alloy of copper + one other metal to get to the inner planes, and an alloy of platinum + one other metal for the outer planes, and an alloy of gold + one other metal for the transitive planes?


Also, am I the only one that sees a problem with requiring the use of a metal specific to a plane to get to that plane?

Lol, apparently not. NINJA!!!!

Grumman
2010-03-03, 03:05 AM
Er, have you spent much time looking up Far Realms fluff and monsters? I heartily recommend the Kaorti and their various pets (Fiend Folio) and Tsochari (Lords of Madness). A fork made of cancer fits perfectly.
How about a fork made of plutonium? It's radioactive and poisonous, making it appropriate for such a hostile destination. And it's difficult to make and difficult to use to create the metal fork, helping to explain why next to no one knows how to get there.

Malacode
2010-03-03, 03:07 AM
Plane of Shadow:
Not a D&D metal, but a fantasy one - Stygium. It "drinks" light.
Beryllium or Boron also works, they're black :smallbiggrin:. Just because someone else said it as a joke.


I agree with all the Inner Planes bar Water, and all the outer planes bar Positive Energy plane. Also, I believe there is an exotic material that is solidified air. Not a metal, but you might want to keep that in mind.

Grumman
2010-03-03, 03:11 AM
Also, am I the only one that sees a problem with requiring the use of a metal specific to a plane to get to that plane? I suggest you don't use anything that can't be found on the Material plane.
I disagree. Plane Shift is only the most mainstream way of getting from plane to plane. I think it makes things more interesting if other methods (like Reality Maelstrom or custom, single-plane spells) have a place as a way of finding new planes before the simpler, safer Plane Shift can be established.

sonofzeal
2010-03-03, 03:13 AM
How about a fork made of plutonium? It's radioactive and poisonous, making it appropriate for such a hostile destination. And it's difficult to make and difficult to use to create the metal fork, helping to explain why next to no one knows how to get there.
Doesn't have the same visceral punch. Far Realms is supposed to be a world of surrealist nightmares.

Also, I believe only certain isotopes of plutonium are radioactive (or at least radioactive enough to matter; one has a halflife of 80 million years), and specifying plutonium-239 is a bit jarring for a supposedly fantasy setting.

Grumman
2010-03-03, 03:17 AM
...and specifying plutonium-239 is a bit jarring for a supposedly fantasy setting.
Then don't specify Plutonium-239. Just say that this metal only works one time out of N, and the wizards have no bloody clue why.

sonofzeal
2010-03-03, 03:31 AM
Then don't specify Plutonium-239. Just say that this metal only works one time out of N, and the wizards have no bloody clue why.
Eh, seems to belabour the whole point then, and misses the whole surrealist nightmare anyway. Something inherently poisonous could work though.

Gan The Grey
2010-03-03, 04:39 AM
For the Far Realms, I'd say a wizard has 0% chance of contacting it if he is trying to, with a 1% chance of contacting during any regular ritual, and a 3% chance of contacting it during a failed ritual or a ritual using the wrong metal.

But that's just me. The Far Realm is SCARY.

GolemsVoice
2010-03-03, 04:48 AM
What about black iron for Carceri? Cast iron, with a deep black colour can easily be associated with prisons and heavy chains, which is what Carceri is all about, if I remember correctly?

And maybe barely worked, crude iron for the Beastlands? It would have a savage, wild feel to it, maybe.

Gan The Grey
2010-03-03, 05:01 AM
/facepalm

How about Ironwood for Arborea?

GolemsVoice
2010-03-03, 06:39 AM
Well, but is it a metal? If we include things that are not metal, there are of course many more options.

the_archduke
2010-03-03, 12:05 PM
Lead for the Gray Wastes. It's gray and poisonous

arguskos
2010-03-03, 12:37 PM
I have a list I use for this.

Transitive Planes
Astral: Astral Driftmetal
Ethereal: Mithril
Shadow: a fork made from the splints of a destroyed suit of +1 shadowed splint mail

Inner
Fire: Brass
Water: Riverine
Earth: Urdurkar
Air: Blue Ice mined from a skyberg
Negative: Thinuan
Positive: Silver (non-magical)

Outer:
Ysgard: Ysgardian Heartwire
Limbo: Entropium
Pandemonium: Pandemonic Silver
Abyss: Abyssal Bloodiron
Carceri: Honestly, I can't think of anything. >_<
Hades: Thinuan
Ghenna: Ghennan Morghuth-Iron
Baator: Baatorian Greensteel
Acheron: Adamantine
Mechanus: Steel
Arcadia: Aururum
Celestia: Solanian Truesteel
Bytopia: Electrum
Elysium: Frystalline
Beastlands: Alchemical Silver
Arboria: Elven Leafweave (also, not a metal, but damn if it's not fitting)
Outlands: Iron

Notes: There is a single duplication (Thinuan for Hades and the Negative Energy Plane. It fits them both though, and I couldn't think of anything better for either). Carceri I couldn't figure something out for, and Aboria (as home to the Seldarine) should have an elven material, such as Leafweave, even though it's not technically a metal. Shadow was me being creative. :smalltongue:

Not the perfect list, but I think it's a decent one. Use if you wish, or not, whatever works for you.

Asbestos
2010-03-03, 01:22 PM
I'm against Aluminum for the Prime because it is only a mundane metal in our modern times. Until the late 1800s the stuff traded at a higher price than gold. It may be technically common, but it is far from mundane.

I'd suggest lead for the Prime because its so easy to extract, work with, and cheap as dirt when compared to any other of ye olde known metals.

Ysgard: A bar smelted from Bog Iron, the most common type of iron used by the Vikings.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-03, 01:27 PM
Hmm, I'd think Steel should be for Acheron. Steel is the metal most associated with war, and Acheron is the plane of war. It really doesn't make sense to me as being part of the Outlands. I tend to think of the Outlands as Iron Oxide (rust).

Though Rust could also work for Acheron, though that's a bit oblique - Mars is mostly covered in the stuff, which is what gives it its red color, and Mars, of course, is the Roman god of war.

Also, I tend to agree about Aluminum and the Prime. Actually, Iron works very well for the Prime, I think, seeing as the core of the world is iron...

Another property of iron that might be interesting, is that it is the end-point for nuclear fusion in stars. 56Ni is the heaviest element a star can produce (the next stable isotope is 60Zn, but that would require a great deal more energy than is found even in the core of a star; only in supernovas do heavier elements occur), but 56Ni decays in a few days to 56Co and then 56Fe, making 56Fe the heaviest isotope you'd find in a star. No idea what plane that would be associated with.

Asbestos
2010-03-03, 01:40 PM
Hmm, I'd think Steel should be for Acheron. Steel is the metal most associated with war, and Acheron is the plane of war. It really doesn't make sense to me as being part of the Outlands. I tend to think of the Outlands as Iron Oxide (rust).

Though Rust could also work for Acheron, though that's a bit oblique - Mars is mostly covered in the stuff, which is what gives it its red color, and Mars, of course, is the Roman god of war.

Technically rust isn't an actual metal, it just has a metallic element in it, there is a difference!

A Rusted Iron Fork would work for something and I'd like to suggest a heavily oxidized copper fork for the Elemental Plane of Water:
http://s3.images.com/huge.66.330477.JPG
Does that NOT make you think of water?

This also lets us have something that the wizard can carry around at something above -38.83C and still be solid.


Why not Mercury for the Far Realm? Its toxic and you'd be mad to try and work with it in any quantity and at the temps required to keep it solid.

sonofzeal
2010-03-03, 01:50 PM
Why not Mercury for the Far Realm? Its toxic and you'd be mad to try and work with it in any quantity and at the temps required to keep it solid.
Technically mercury, by itself, is actually not very toxic (http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2002/10/31/and_while_were_on_the_subject_mercury.php) since its bioavailability is pretty low. A fork made of organomercurial compounds would be far more dangerous, but wouldn't roll off the tongue the same way.

I like the idea though. If we've got to go with a metal for the Far Realms, that might be our best bet.

Asbestos
2010-03-03, 01:59 PM
Technically mercury, by itself, is actually not very toxic (http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2002/10/31/and_while_were_on_the_subject_mercury.php) since its bioavailability is pretty low. A fork made of organomercurial compounds would be far more dangerous, but wouldn't roll off the tongue the same way.

I like the idea though. If we've got to go with a metal for the Far Realms, that might be our best bet.

Hg's pure form isn't that toxic, that's true. Buts its oxide (which forms readily) is toxic and so is one of its common ores (Cinnabar). So, to get any amount of elemental Hg you'd risk exposing yourself to a toxic substance. Add in the classical association of madness with those that work with Hg (mad hatters) and we've got Toxicity, Madness Inducing, and Difficulty to work with due to its physically unstable nature all in one metal.



Oh, and I forgot Antimony in my list of classically known metals. Its technically a metalloid, but since it looks like a metal and at some point someone made coins out of it... I think it can count.
It has some toxicity but its naturally occurring sulfite was used in ancient cosmetics and in medicine. Arsenic is another classically known metalloid.

GolemsVoice
2010-03-03, 02:31 PM
How about starmetal for the Far Realm? It might not be too readily apparent, but since the Far Realm is based heavily on Lovecraft, and most of Lovecraft's creatures live among the stars and/or came from the stars to earth, and much of the horror in his tales comes from being alone in a vast universe, starmetal would fit.