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View Full Version : how cheesy is this? 3.5 psionics



alisbin
2010-03-03, 10:03 AM
hey mates,
i'm thinking about high level psionics and a cheesy solution to limited powers comes to mind so i figured i'd see if it works outside my own head.
psion/thrallherd (or leadership) hits 18(17)th level with a psionic thrall/cohort and the following powers; psychic reformation, psychic chiurgery.
step 1: impart all known powers to thrall/cohort
step 2: psychic reformation to learn all new powers
step 3: thrall/cohort imparts psychic chiurgery and reformation to master
step 4: repeat step 1-3 till all powers known
step 5: know all powers and be utterly badass (x2 due to thrall/cohort ALSO having all powers)

yes i know this takes quite of XP spent, but it can be done in stages, a power or 2 at a time and XP shouldn't be that hard to come by in 10k chunks at such high levels

so, have i missed anything?

also, psicrystal cheese; manifest hostile empathic transfer and have psicrystal hold the touch attack indefinitely until needed while you continue to blast crap.

Volkov
2010-03-03, 10:06 AM
I could defeat that with one CoDzilla.

alisbin
2010-03-03, 10:09 AM
i'm not saying its the best character ever, just seeing if the cheese is legit. obviously a wizard is better.

Person_Man
2010-03-03, 10:26 AM
Try an Incarnate 3/Psion 3/Thrallheard 1/Necrocarnate 1/Soul Manifester X.

Step 1) Thrallheards get a daily source of mindless followers, who will fling themselves at your enemies at your command.
Step 2) Necrocarnates get bonus essentia for 24 hours every time they consume the soul of a recently dead corpse. You can use this to max out all of your soulmelds, incarnum feats, and to get bonus hit points equal to your current essentia pool.
Step 3) Profit!

Douglas
2010-03-03, 10:30 AM
Try an Incarnate 3/Psion 3/Thrallheard 1/Necrocarnate 1/Soul Manifester X.

Step 1) Thrallheards get a daily source of mindless followers, who will fling themselves at your enemies at your command.
Step 2) Necrocarnates get bonus essentia for 24 hours every time they consume the soul of a recently dead corpse. You can use this to max out all of your soulmelds, incarnum feats, and to get bonus hit points equal to your current essentia pool.
Step 3) Profit!
So, what, you get up every morning to find a line of several thousand volunteer ritual sacrifices waiting outside your tent, which you then proceed to slaughter just to get a temporary bonus? I wonder, how long would it take to depopulate the entire Prime Material Plane this way?

Hmm, this would make a great easy way to kill the BBEG - just keep killing your new thralls until the BBEG becomes one of your thralls because there's no one else left to fill the role!:smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2010-03-03, 11:31 AM
Your trick is sound, though I must point out that an Erudite can do it all by himself without Chirurgery/Thrallherd by crafting powerstones.

An StP Erudite/Thrallherd takes this to the next level - by taking a Wizard as his cohort, he can learn almost every arcane spell and psionic power in the game. By PrCing your thrall properly, you can also learn divine spells.

And of course, he will have unlimited power points each day thanks to Mental Pinnacle.


Try an Incarnate 3/Psion 3/Thrallheard 1/Necrocarnate 1/Soul Manifester X.

Step 1) Thrallheards get a daily source of mindless followers, who will fling themselves at your enemies at your command.
Step 2) Necrocarnates get bonus essentia for 24 hours every time they consume the soul of a recently dead corpse. You can use this to max out all of your soulmelds, incarnum feats, and to get bonus hit points equal to your current essentia pool.
Step 3) Profit!

I would go with Ardent instead - you have Wis synergy with Incarnate, especially since you are evil (Necrocarnate.) And you qualify for the Inquisitor feat much more easily since Wis is your casting stat.

In addition, with Practiced Manifester you can get 9th-level powers as an Ardent with that build, whereas a Psion can't. (You will learn powers as a Psion 13, but with PM you can learn powers as an Ardent 17.)

Additional tricks with this build:

1) Psionic Open Chakra - now you can bind soulmelds to your highest chakras (heart, throat) despite Soul Manifester slowing that progression.

2) Azure Talent - convert all that extra essentia into PP.


I could defeat that with one CoDzilla.

And? CoDzilla is Tier 1, Psions are tier 2. Furthermore, CoDzilla already knows their entire list, they have no need for tricks like this. Why even mention them?

Glimbur
2010-03-03, 11:33 AM
I would go with Ardent instead - you have Wis synergy with Incarnate, especially since you are evil (Necrocarnate.) And you qualify for the Inquisitor feat much more easily since Wis is your casting stat.

You might think wisdom is important for Incarnates because the class description says so, but that's false. It only matters for save DC's on a couple of soulmelds... just don't use those soulmelds and you don't have a special need for wisdom.

Optimystik
2010-03-03, 02:14 PM
You might think wisdom is important for Incarnates because the class description says so, but that's false. It only matters for save DC's on a couple of soulmelds... just don't use those soulmelds and you don't have a special need for wisdom.

Ah, but as an evil Incarnate, many of their soulmelds are offensive in nature (and he has to be evil to be a Necrocarnate), and Wis boosts the save DCs. He might as well capitalize on that synergy.

Besides which, Ardent is the only base class that can achieve 9ths with ML 14. They give up quite a few mid-level powers to do so, but they can do it. With Psion, he is making the same tradeoff for no benefit.

Besides, it's flavorful. Which psionic class would care more about soul energy than an Ardent? (Well, maybe a Wilder.)

magic9mushroom
2010-03-03, 03:08 PM
hey mates,
i'm thinking about high level psionics and a cheesy solution to limited powers comes to mind so i figured i'd see if it works outside my own head.
psion/thrallherd (or leadership) hits 18(17)th level with a psionic thrall/cohort and the following powers; psychic reformation, psychic chiurgery.
step 1: impart all known powers to thrall/cohort
step 2: psychic reformation to learn all new powers
step 3: thrall/cohort imparts psychic chiurgery and reformation to master
step 4: repeat step 1-3 till all powers known
step 5: know all powers and be utterly badass (x2 due to thrall/cohort ALSO having all powers)

yes i know this takes quite of XP spent, but it can be done in stages, a power or 2 at a time and XP shouldn't be that hard to come by in 10k chunks at such high levels

so, have i missed anything?

also, psicrystal cheese; manifest hostile empathic transfer and have psicrystal hold the touch attack indefinitely until needed while you continue to blast crap.

You missed the Thought Bottle that you need to pull this off.

At which point you might as well just buy a Candle of Invocation and go Pun-Pun.

awa
2010-03-03, 06:05 PM
why bother killing your thralls if i recall correctly you can suck the soul out of any creature just buy a bunch hundred chickens as added bonus the dead chickens can be used to feed your thralls.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-03-03, 06:16 PM
why bother killing your thralls if i recall correctly you can suck the soul out of any creature just buy a bunch hundred chickens as added bonus the dead chickens can be used to feed your thralls.

Because you get new thralls for free. If you want to pay something, buy and soulsuck the chickens. Feed the chickens to your thralls. Soulsuck the thralls. Adventure for the day. Repeat with new thralls.

You depopulate two species. One is just never enough.

awa
2010-03-03, 08:11 PM
not instantly you might need some to set off traps during the adventure

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-03, 08:31 PM
A few dozen thralls should be commoners.

Guess what they'll be infested with?

Dr.Epic
2010-03-03, 08:34 PM
It's not as cheesy as a cheese golem.

Superglucose
2010-03-03, 09:21 PM
And? CoDzilla is Tier 1, Psions are tier 2. Furthermore, CoDzilla already knows their entire list, they have no need for tricks like this. Why even mention them?
Because it isn't that cheesy if it doesn't raise Psions from tier2 to tier1?

Optimator
2010-03-03, 09:28 PM
A few dozen thralls should be commoners.

Guess what they'll be infested with?

Turkey? Duck?

Superglucose
2010-03-03, 10:07 PM
Both? Turducken-infused peasents!

Siosilvar
2010-03-03, 10:18 PM
A few dozen thralls should be commoners.

Guess what they'll be infested with?

Wild mongooses.

Sophismata
2010-03-03, 10:19 PM
Wild mongooses.

Raging mongooses.

Flickerdart
2010-03-03, 10:27 PM
Both? Turducken-infused peasents!
Turducken infested? Best flaw ever.

Zergrusheddie
2010-03-03, 10:42 PM
Interesting idea, but it requires a high level and takes 10k exp. However, I see no problem with it.

I actually suggested that a commoner could kill a level 20 Fighter in an arena setting if the Commoner got to go first. When the DM asked how, I mentioned chicken infested. Got to love a flaw that allows you to either feed or suffocate a nation with infinite chickens.