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StoryKeeper
2010-03-03, 04:42 PM
So I have this idea stuck in my head of a melee-oriented mage that uses his fists and magical buffs to simply smash through guys in close combat. This was inspired by the spell Fist of Stone.

My first thought was to go shugenja (earth) and monk and then go Sacred Fist when I could so that I would be okayish in melee and have access to the magic quintessential to the concept. I was also considering sorcerer for more versatility (though I'll still be getting pretty much exclusively melee buffs) with monk, but I'd like some suggestions on other options for a melee mage that uses his fists. Bonus points if it's earth-themed.

Yuki Akuma
2010-03-03, 04:44 PM
Fist of Stone and Monk do not complement each other at all. Fist of Stone is a slam attack.

You'll want something that boosts your natural attacks.

gallagher
2010-03-03, 04:49 PM
Fist of Stone and Monk do not complement each other at all. Fist of Stone is a slam attack.

You'll want something that boosts your natural attacks.

agreed.

i would go with some levels of druid, as the wisdom would synergize better with the monk levels, and you will have some spells that will help buff your monk

also, does anyone know if you can flurry while in bear form?

Yuki Akuma
2010-03-03, 04:50 PM
also, does anyone know if you can flurry while in bear form?

Of course you can flurry in bear form, but only if you're using a special monk weapon. As bears don't have hands, that would be unarmed strikes only.

StoryKeeper
2010-03-03, 05:00 PM
Good catch on the slam attack thing, but before everyone goes into a kung-fu wildform: panda discussion, I'm not really looking for a character that transforms. I just want a guy that can be really fierce in melee via magical enchantments. I was thinking mage armor, fist of stone, stuff like that.

Aerodynamik
2010-03-03, 05:02 PM
I once played a Wizard/Monk.

Optimization wise, it was terrible. On the other hand though it was pretty hilarious seeing the looks on the monsters faces when a puny little wizard buffed himself up like crazy and then started smashing them with his bare fists.

KellKheraptis
2010-03-03, 05:21 PM
If you're not set on being arcane, Tashalatora on a Kalashtar can make you an unholy terror in melee. Hell, if you can variant stack, you can make an Ardent 20 with full Rage and most monk abilities. Sounds familiar, doesn't it >.>

J.Gellert
2010-03-03, 05:29 PM
I once did a Monk/Wizard/Enlightened Fist/Master of the East Wind/Abjurant Champion build that would have worked great in theory, but I didn't get a chance to test it in a game... shame. Anyway, probably not that you want, because it was supposed to be primarily a caster and only a backup skillmonkey/bruiser.

By core at least, it would be much easier to do this the cleric way, however. The problem with monk-style classes is that they usually have 3/4 bab which is not that great for gish. Divine Power mends that nicely.

AstralFire
2010-03-03, 05:31 PM
Step 1: Take a Dwarf Crusader or UA Swordsage.
Step 2: Give it Stone Dragon maneuvers.
Step 3: Take some maneuvers which are supernatural so that you don't function quite as hot in an Anti-Magic Field.
Step 4: Dump ranks in spellcraft.
Step 5: PrC into Deepstone Sentinel.
Step 6: Put that junk in a box.

Darrin
2010-03-03, 05:44 PM
Fist of Stone and Monk do not complement each other at all. Fist of Stone is a slam attack.

You'll want something that boosts your natural attacks.

Actually, they can work together quite well. Fist of Stone can add a secondary slam attack (-5 hit penalty) to his normal full-attack progression. And slam attacks are natural attacks, so anything that buffs all of a monk's natural attacks (Amulet of Mighty Fists, chained Greater Magic Fang/Mighty Wallop) would also buff Fist of Stone.

A monk can do quite well by adding more secondary natural attacks. Multiattack and Improved Multiattack help. Of course, and Totemist can rip the monk apart like kleenex.

StoryKeeper
2010-03-03, 06:58 PM
Step 1: Take a Dwarf Crusader or UA Swordsage.
Step 2: Give it Stone Dragon maneuvers.
Step 3: Take some maneuvers which are supernatural so that you don't function quite as hot in an Anti-Magic Field.
Step 4: Dump ranks in spellcraft.
Step 5: PrC into Deepstone Sentinel.
Step 6: Put that junk in a box.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to tome of battle, and I am pretty sure Deepstone sentinel is in races of stone which I also don't have.

I am not too terribly attached to going arcane. I'd be happy to go divine if anyone can tell me a good combo for doing so.

Pluto
2010-03-03, 07:13 PM
So I have this idea stuck in my head of a melee-oriented mage that uses his fists and magical buffs to simply smash through guys in close combat. This was inspired by the spell Fist of Stone. Sacred Fist is solid.

Alternatively:

Monk 2/Ardent 18 with Tashalatora.
-or-
Psychic Warrior 20 with Claw powers switched out for Slams.
-or-
Cleric 20 with Strength Devotion.
-or-
Oriental Adventures Shaman 20

KellKheraptis
2010-03-03, 07:17 PM
Sacred Fist is solid.

Alternatively:

Monk 2/Ardent 18 with Tashalatora.
-or-
Psychic Warrior 20 with Claw powers switched out for Slams.
-or-
Cleric 20 with Strength Devotion.
-or-
Oriental Adventures Shaman 20

I wouldn't even do that with the PsyWar. Just ask the DM if you can refluff the claws to look like your fists, but still do mechanically the same thing. No harm in changing the fluff text as long as the rules remain, and also...you can then call yourself the <Monarch> of Smack!

Olo Demonsbane
2010-03-03, 07:19 PM
A decent build is:

Bard 1/Sorcerer 6/Monk 2/Enlightened Fist 1/Sublime Chord 2/Enlightened Fist +4/Abjurant Champion 5

Volkov
2010-03-03, 07:21 PM
So I have this idea stuck in my head of a melee-oriented mage that uses his fists and magical buffs to simply smash through guys in close combat. This was inspired by the spell Fist of Stone.

My first thought was to go shugenja (earth) and monk and then go Sacred Fist when I could so that I would be okayish in melee and have access to the magic quintessential to the concept. I was also considering sorcerer for more versatility (though I'll still be getting pretty much exclusively melee buffs) with monk, but I'd like some suggestions on other options for a melee mage that uses his fists. Bonus points if it's earth-themed.

Four words for you, Cleric or Druid-zilla.

Damned Ninjas.

Haven
2010-03-03, 07:50 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have access to tome of battle, and I am pretty sure Deepstone sentinel is in races of stone which I also don't have.

I am not too terribly attached to going arcane. I'd be happy to go divine if anyone can tell me a good combo for doing so.

Deepstone Sentinel is ToB too. The martial adept answer to Dwarven Defender, actually.

Emmerask
2010-03-03, 08:17 PM
My first thought was to go shugenja (earth) and monk and then go Sacred Fist when I could so that I would be okayish in melee and have access to the magic quintessential to the concept. I was also considering sorcerer for more versatility (though I'll still be getting pretty much exclusively melee buffs) with monk, but I'd like some suggestions on other options for a melee mage that uses his fists. Bonus points if it's earth-themed.

Hm the shugenja´s spell list in cd seems a bit lacking (is there more in other books?).

And if you want to be melee oriented mage why do you choose a divine oriented base class?
wizard/monk/enlightened fist or wu jen/monk/ef (giant size might be nice^^ with +32str and collosal unarmed strike dmg) build is much more "magy" then what you suggest ^^

StoryKeeper
2010-03-03, 08:20 PM
Well, when I say "Mage" I mean "spellcaster in general." I'm liking the psychic warrior idea (maybe multiclass to psion egoist for some added goodies?), but I'd really like to be able to use Fist of Stone if only because it's what inspired the idea in the first place. If that's not really doable, then psychic warrior it is.

PinkysBrain
2010-03-03, 08:21 PM
Fighter 1/wizard 4/enlightened fist 9/spellsword 1/abjurant champion 5 with IUS?

Enlightened fist is quite a nice class.

Emmerask
2010-03-03, 08:22 PM
Well, when I say "Mage" I mean "spellcaster in general." I'm liking the psychic warrior idea (maybe multiclass to psion egoist for some added goodies?), but I'd really like to be able to use Fist of Stone if only because it's what inspired the idea in the first place. If that's not really doable, then psychic warrior it is.

Fist of stone is a sorcerer/wizard/wu jen warmage spell :smallwink:

Infact I don´t see it on the shugenja spelllist at all? are there other books for shugenja spells?

StoryKeeper
2010-03-03, 08:28 PM
Really? Not even shugenja? That doesn't sound quite right.

And to you, PinkysBrain, that looks good too, but I'm not sure what IUS is , and is spell sword in complete warrior somewhere?

BenTheJester
2010-03-03, 08:28 PM
I once played a Wizard/Monk.

Optimization wise, it was terrible. On the other hand though it was pretty hilarious seeing the looks on the monsters faces when a puny little wizard buffed himself up like crazy and then started smashing them with his bare fists.

Why smash with bare fists, when you can smash with bear fists?

Oh yes, I went there

Emmerask
2010-03-03, 08:34 PM
And to you, PinkysBrain, that looks good too, but I'm not sure what IUS is , and is spell sword in complete warrior somewhere?

I think he is referring to the Improved Unarmed Strike feat (taken with the 1st level fighter) because there is no monk in his build and getting an AoO everytime you attack would be not so nice ^^

and spellsword is in complete warrior -correct.

PinkysBrain
2010-03-03, 08:41 PM
And to you, PinkysBrain, that looks good too, but I'm not sure what IUS is
Improved Unarmed Strike, taken as a feat rather than taking a monk level ... with a monk's belt and 9 levels of enlightened fist you still end up with level 14 monk unarmed strike damage (2d6 at medium).

is spell sword in complete warrior somewhere?
Yep ... easy pre-requisites and +1 spellcasting/BAB ... that progression was for an epic character though, if you played it organically you'd take the level at 20 because abjurant champion gives more bang per back first.

PS. also if you think single dipping a PrC is too cheesy you can just replace it with the 10th level of enlightened fist (a dead level class feature wise).

PPS. dunno why I used fighter any more instead of monk, this doesn't have BAB+16 either at 20 so it wasn't for epic ... shrug. If you use carmendine monk then monk makes more sense.

Soranar
2010-03-03, 08:46 PM
typical magic bruiser

1 monk/9 cleric/10 sacred fist + magic domain and feat custom domain to gain the spell Greater Mighty Wallop (enlarges the category of a blunt weapon , lasts hours, you can gain multiple size categories in 1 spell)

Cleric works better since they gain access to divine might and such and their stat is the same (Wis)

otherwise for an arcane caster

1 monk with kung-fu genius or Carmendine monk (int based), wizard, enlightened fist

or

1 monk, sorcerer + enlightened fist and ascetic mage (Cha based)