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AintThatASeamus
2010-03-03, 04:44 PM
Is there a weapon, magic item, spell, feat, or prestige class ability that will either let a monk do his unarmed damage while armed with a monk weapon, or alternatively to bypass material-based DR (such as silver or cold iron) with their unarmed attack? And if so, where do I find it?

AtwasAwamps
2010-03-03, 04:46 PM
As a class feature, monks hands gain the ability to do this. It's not quick, but they do.

Drunken Master lets them add their unarmed damage to attacks with improvised weapons, so...maybe...an adamantine book shelf?

Yuki Akuma
2010-03-03, 04:46 PM
There are spells that can make his unarmed strike count as certain materials for overcoming damage reduction. And he can always use silversheen on his fists.

The spells are likely in the Spell Compendium.


As a class feature, monks hands gain the ability to do this. It's not quick, but they do.

Monks can only overcome DR/Magic, /Law or /Adamantine.

They can take a feat that lets them overcome DR/Good, too.

Also note that Ki Strike counts even when their unarmed strike is made silver or cold iron - their fists aren't really adamantine at all, they can just overcome DR/Adamantine as a Supernatural ability.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-03, 04:49 PM
Scorpion Kama, Magic Item Compendium.

Thurbane
2010-03-03, 04:50 PM
Two items from the MIC will help:

Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane allows all held weapons (including a Monk's unarmed strike) count as silver for overcoming DR.

Ring of Adamantine Touch - the same, but with adamantine.

...and I'm pretty sure there's a feat in the BoED (Sanctify Martial Strike?) that allows your unarmed strike to count as Good.

There is no equivalent for cold iron that I know of, unfortunately.

Lysander
2010-03-03, 04:51 PM
Is there anything that would stop you from wearing gauntlets (which still count as unarmed attack) made of cold iron or alchemical silver? That would just require taking Simple Weapon Proficiency.

Thurbane
2010-03-03, 04:53 PM
Gauntlets do not count as an unarmed attack for a monk. He could either attack for his normal monk damage, or the same damage a normal character would do with gauntlets.

The only weapon I know of that can get around this is the Ward Cestus (AEG), but since that's 3.0 material, it is a little questionable.

Lysander
2010-03-03, 04:56 PM
Where does it say monks with gauntlets are considered armed? I don't see it in the monk entry, and the entry for gauntlets say this:


Gauntlet

This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

The Rose Dragon
2010-03-03, 05:05 PM
Where does it say monks with gauntlets are considered armed? I don't see it in the monk entry, and the entry for gauntlets say this:

You cannot, however, flurry with them.

Lysander
2010-03-03, 05:08 PM
You cannot, however, flurry with them.

Not with your hands no. But monks can do this:


At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full.

So while you can't flurry with the gauntlets, you don't have to take them off in order to flurry.

The Rose Dragon
2010-03-03, 05:10 PM
So while you can't flurry with the gauntlets, you don't have to take them off in order to flurry.

You do, however, lose all the magical bonuses they will give you.

Godskook
2010-03-03, 05:18 PM
You do, however, lose all the magical bonuses they will give you.

Actually, you've kinda entered the "Rules as Purple" section. It all depends on how your DM interprets "Otherwise treated as unarmed strike." And since, afaik, no official help has been given on that one, it ranges from "Monks get no benefit from wielding magical guantlets" to "Monks get the full benefit of the gauntlets, use their damage progression and may flurry". Given that Monks are not overpowered by any stretch of the imagination, I personally always vote to just go with the most monk beneficial version.

Lysander
2010-03-03, 05:28 PM
True. So you'd probably want to have a special metal monk weapon for flurrying. You can also use energy enhancements, like Flaming Burst, on either your gauntlets or your monk weapon to provide extra damage that bypasses DR.

Alternatively, maybe there's a feat or ability somewhere that lets you replace body parts with construct grafts? So you could have fully functional hands made out of alchemical silver. I think there's something like that somewhere. I also think there's a magic item that functions as a replacement arm. Maybe you could get two of those, make em out of alchemical silver, and replace your arms (eesh) with them.

Thurbane
2010-03-03, 05:46 PM
I believe the commly accepted wisdom is that a monk cannot use gauntlets as part of his flurry, or to "stack" with his improved unarmed damage. For instance, I don't believe he could wear +1 flaming gauntlets, and claim a +1 to hit and damage and 1d6 fire damage to his unarmed strike damage - to claim these, he would need to do normal gauntlet damage.

Is this not right?

HunterOfJello
2010-03-03, 05:48 PM
lvl 2 Stone Dragon maneuver from ToB gives +2d6 damage that overcomes all DR and Hardness


you could easily grab this from a dip into any of the ToB base classes

ScionoftheVoid
2010-03-03, 06:09 PM
lvl 2 Stone Dragon maneuver from ToB gives +2d6 damage that overcomes all DR and Hardness


you could easily grab this from a dip into any of the ToB base classes

You have called forth an obligatory "just be an Unarmed Swordsage" reference!

FishAreWet
2010-03-03, 06:18 PM
I believe the commly accepted wisdom is that a monk cannot use gauntlets as part of his flurry, or to "stack" with his improved unarmed damage. For instance, I don't believe he could wear +1 flaming gauntlets, and claim a +1 to hit and damage and 1d6 fire damage to his unarmed strike damage - to claim these, he would need to do normal gauntlet damage.

Is this not right?

Yes. I think it is.

And Gauntlets shouldn't add to IUS. Because IUS is not punching. It can be punching, but it isn't by default. IUS is kung fu. Scorpian Kama is the the RAW answer to your question. DM fiat is an even better answer. Just ask your DM to let you pay for materials on an Amulet of Natural Attacks.

Soranar
2010-03-03, 06:29 PM
WOTC doesn't have much to accomplish this

as mentioned before you can get DR Law,magic and adamantine through straight monk

you can get cold iron through being a gnome, dwarf or goliath with the earth's fist feat from RoS

you can get DR/ Good through BoED

warforged can get adamantine, silver and cold iron through feats (tracery), but I think you can only have the one (and not the others)

and there is a feat called water splitting stone that gives you +4 damage when overcoming DR (so you ignore 4 DR, no matter what the source is)

if you include Dragon Mag material

any of the Shen prestige classes (dragon shen, monkey shen , etc)

get silver and cold iron DR piercing

thats all I can think of from the top of my head

Runestar
2010-03-03, 07:07 PM
Get an amulet of natural attacks (savage species) and add the metalline weapon property? The best thing is the monk's entire body is one giant weapon, so you only need to pay once (and its benefits extend to whichever part of your body you use to attack). :smallsmile:

Volkov
2010-03-03, 07:12 PM
I believe the commly accepted wisdom is that a monk cannot use gauntlets as part of his flurry, or to "stack" with his improved unarmed damage. For instance, I don't believe he could wear +1 flaming gauntlets, and claim a +1 to hit and damage and 1d6 fire damage to his unarmed strike damage - to claim these, he would need to do normal gauntlet damage.

Is this not right?

Flaming is 2d6 I believe.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-03, 07:22 PM
Flaming is 2d6 I believe.

No thats flaming burst, a flaming weapon deals 1d6 extra fire damage while a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 2dx (dice damage depending on the crit multiplier) on succesful critical hits.

Volkov
2010-03-03, 07:24 PM
No thats flaming burst, a flaming weapon deals 1d6 extra fire damage while a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 2dx (dice damage depending on the crit multiplier) on succesful critical hits.

No flaming burst does 2d6 on normal hits +1d10 for x2 weapons on critical hits, +2d10 for x3, and +3d10 for x4. Flaming just does 2d6 on all hits according to my DMG.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-03, 07:26 PM
No flaming burst does 2d6 on normal hits +1d10 for x2 weapons on critical hits, +2d10 for x3, and +3d10 for x4. Flaming just does 2d6 on all hits according to my DMG.

SRD says it is 1d6

Volkov
2010-03-03, 07:30 PM
SRD says it is 1d6

So they errata'd the DMG? Must be because they realized that most people were simply going with thundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming + hundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming as it was better than whatever burst.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-03, 07:35 PM
So they errata'd the DMG? Must be because they realized that most people were simply going with thundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming + hundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming as it was better than whatever burst.

No idea, I don't have a physical copy of the DMG (my DM has it)

Volkov
2010-03-03, 07:38 PM
No idea, I don't have a physical copy of the DMG (my DM has it)

I would tell you to buy it, but sadly 3.5e is out of print. I'd really wish that WoTC would release the old editions as free PDF's, they can't make any more money off of them because all money transfer involving them are between the consumers now.

Optimystik
2010-03-03, 07:38 PM
Arcanopath Monk 5 (DragComp) gets ki strike (Cold Iron).

term1nally s1ck
2010-03-03, 07:38 PM
It's 1d6 by my DMG...

Runestar
2010-03-03, 07:39 PM
So they errata'd the DMG? Must be because they realized that most people were simply going with thundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming + hundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming as it was better than whatever burst.

There is no reason to get the burst weapons whatsoever.

Volkov
2010-03-03, 07:40 PM
There is no reason to get the burst weapons whatsoever.

Unless you have money to waste.

term1nally s1ck
2010-03-03, 07:45 PM
I've made chars who have an 8-20 crit threat range. On average, flaming/frost is still better than firey burst even with that crit range, unless you have a x3 weapon and can hit on a 7, or a x4 weapon and hit on an 11.

Eldariel
2010-03-03, 07:59 PM
So they errata'd the DMG? Must be because they realized that most people were simply going with thundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming + hundering/frost/lightning/corrosive/flaming as it was better than whatever burst.

I'm not sure what DMG you're looking at but mine (3.5, English) says "+1d6". And I'm fairly certain 3.0 said the same since I remember the first magic weapon I ever found in a 3e game and it was a two-bladed sword with one end being +1 and the other being Flaming and it dealt +1d6 extra damage and I thought it was the most broken thing ever since it nearly doubled my damage output for the off-hand attack. I can dig out my 3.0 DMG again if necessary, but I'm fairly sure you remember something wrong.

sofawall
2010-03-03, 08:41 PM
Holy is 2d6, but flaming/frost/etc. are all 1d6.

JaronK
2010-03-03, 08:42 PM
Flaming is 1d6, always has been (at least since 3rd, which is as far back as my books go).

And the Kensai class would let you enchant your unarmed strikes. Then you could enchant them as Shadow Striking and thus bypass any DR.

JaronK

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-03, 09:03 PM
Unless you have money to waste.

Even then, you're better off not buying the bursts. Hell, same to the normal ones (except Corrosive).

ericgrau
2010-03-03, 09:29 PM
Is there a weapon, magic item, spell, feat, or prestige class ability that will either let a monk do his unarmed damage while armed with a monk weapon, or alternatively to bypass material-based DR (such as silver or cold iron) with their unarmed attack? And if so, where do I find it?

Get a cold iron monk weapon with the ki focus enchantment, it's only a +1 equivalent enchantment. Now it is also adamantine for the purpose of bypassing DR, and can be used for monk attacks like stunning fist. Buy a lot of silversheen. Applying it to your weapon makes it silver for the purpose of overcoming DR, but suppresses the ability to overcome DR/cold iron. So only use it when needed. Now you can overcome any material based DR. Next pile on a bunch of damage enchantments, like say holy so you can overcome DR/good. The weapon will now do more damage than your unarmed strikes, and you can flurry with it because it's a monk weapon (not to mention use it for stunning fist). Heck, while you're at it you can make it a sai or staff or kama so you can use it with either improved disarm or improved trip.

taltamir
2010-03-03, 09:44 PM
just ask your DM to allow monks to use monk abilities with monk weapons. few DMs will say no.

Siosilvar
2010-03-03, 09:50 PM
Flaming is 1d6, always has been (at least since 3rd, which is as far back as my books go).

In 1st it was +1, +2 vs. regenerating creatures, +3 vs. cold-using, inflammable, or avian creatures, +4 vs. undead.

Superglucose
2010-03-03, 10:16 PM
I like the Drunken Master answer... just get table legs made out of the various metals!

Roderick_BR
2010-03-03, 10:26 PM
Bracers of Striking (Magic of Faerun, page 155).
Pretty much blunt double weapons (basic unarmed strike damage), that you can enchant with any normal enchantment you could put on a normal weapon. Grants Unarmed Strike. The base cost is 1310. The rest of the cost is for any enchancement/power you add for a double weapon.
Wouldn't work with materials (adamantine, silver), but there's enough spells that emulate that effect on weapons.

Kaiyanwang
2010-03-04, 03:45 AM
I'm not sure what DMG you're looking at but mine (3.5, English) says "+1d6". And I'm fairly certain 3.0 said the same since I remember the first magic weapon I ever found in a 3e game and it was a two-bladed sword with one end being +1 and the other being Flaming and it dealt +1d6 extra damage and I thought it was the most broken thing ever since it nearly doubled my damage output for the off-hand attack. I can dig out my 3.0 DMG again if necessary, but I'm fairly sure you remember something wrong.

In my gaming group 3.0 and 3.5 DMGs, both italian and in english, flaming is d6.