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Zonack
2010-03-03, 08:37 PM
Ok so, I have been playing RPG with some guys for like 2 years now.

At first I always went to the sessions because I was starting to Roleplay and it was all fun and games but then... well there were some days I couldn't go, either cause I had something else to do or I didn't really felt to go, but sometimes I ended up going anyways because... well I had a good time talking to em besides from the game.

However I decided not to go to the upcoming session cause I didn't felt like, I have troubles with my life and my brother is helping me out so well.... games in general aren't really a priority...
And there are 2 guys (The DM and another player) who ALWAYS go nuts when you tell em you won't go... why? I don't know they think it's a COMMITMENT, that we MUST go unless something VERY VERY VERY VERY important comes across... and well I think the only excuse I can give to them so they don't get pissed is ... ''My mother just passed away''.. and no I am not kidding... this thursday I will go out with my brother to a restaurant and then probably talk about going to Psychoanalysis sessions because those have GREATLY helped my brother and I suppose they could me too... since at the moment I do nothing but play video games all day for... well personal reasons.

Now those 2 guysl get pissed cause they automatically think I don't wanna go cause I don't ''value'' the work the DM does and I rather stay at home and do anything.

I am not wrong in getting angry with em, am I?

wxdruid
2010-03-03, 08:44 PM
My personal opinion:

If you're not having fun and other things in life are more important, then you are within your rights to say that you won't be there. It's their problem if they get all upset about it. If they continue on this track, the game will probably become less fun and you'll want to go even less as you feel more pressured to attend.

To me, the only thing you need to say to them is "I won't be there this week" They either accept it? Or go off the deep end? Either way, it lets you know that you might need to think about if you want to continue playing with them in the future.

A question: Are they hardcore, must play every week type gamers?

tcrudisi
2010-03-03, 08:49 PM
Well, I'm on the fence about this one. I mean, it sort of is a commitment. Oh sure, it's just a game and if you'd rather be somewhere else, that's fine. But if 3 people show up to play but can't because a 4th person didn't? Well, that lets them down too. Some groups are fine with this, and it's definitely more about socializing and playing a little. Others want to play a lot and socialize little. It sounds like you are the former and they are the latter. In that case, perhaps you can find a group that won't mind you showing up only half the time?

My old groups used to meet every week at same time and same day. As such, that definitely felt like a commitment, but one I enjoyed. If I was going to miss a day, I forewarned everyone two weeks in advance so they could decide whether to go ahead and get together without me or find other things to do.

Then again, I've had groups where we just sort of decided by phone a couple of hours before we got together. That's not nearly the same commitment level, in my eyes. Of course people won't make it as often to this sort of group, but that's expected. It doesn't make it any less fun, it just has its priorities shifted around some.

Anyway -- I've rambled. Like many problems, this one might just be best suited finding a new group. Of course talk to them first and let them know how you feel, but I suspect that you'll ultimately be looking for a group that has its priorities better synergyzed (sp?) with yours.

Zonack
2010-03-03, 09:58 PM
My personal opinion:

If you're not having fun and other things in life are more important, then you are within your rights to say that you won't be there. It's their problem if they get all upset about it. If they continue on this track, the game will probably become less fun and you'll want to go even less as you feel more pressured to attend.

To me, the only thing you need to say to them is "I won't be there this week" They either accept it? Or go off the deep end? Either way, it lets you know that you might need to think about if you want to continue playing with them in the future.

A question: Are they hardcore, must play every week type gamers?

Yeah, at least 2 of em, I mean I really love roleplaying, I could spend days playing, I could spend weeks planning stories... but in the end its a game... if someone tells me ''dude I don't feel like playing today'' or even if he says my story is sucking and hes not coming I will never ever get angry, I wouldn't ask for reasons, you don't wanna come? Well, it's ok.. we're still friends right? Then it's all good!

Probably, I need to find another group...

rayne_dragon
2010-03-04, 12:08 AM
Here's my take, but first I'd like to say that I'm like your DM and the other guy. I don't like it when people don't show up and I hate missing out on a game because of other people's lives. That said, as long as you let them know ahead of time that you couldn't make it (preferably the night before, but at least the morning of) then you're alright to be annoyed with their behavior. If you just didn't show up and excused yourself after the fact, they're still overreacting, but at the same time they're the ones who (imo) have the right to be annoyed with you. Being part of a regular game is a commitment, but one where the other parties should be accepting of other issues occasionally disrupting.

Also, in light of your specific circumstances, it may do you good to keep going to the game regularly - but your group should accept it if you need to sit out a few just to get things sorted out.

BRC
2010-03-04, 12:14 AM
They're within their rights to be frustrated, especially if they can't play without you, or if you change your plans suddenly and shortly before a game. But even then they shouldn't really be angry with you personally, especially since, from the sounds of things, you have a perfectly good reason to not go.

It would be different if you said you were going to show up, then half an hour after you were supposed to be there call up and say "Sorry guys, I just got Bioshock 2 and it slipped my mind, I'm not going to show up today".

My advice would be to let them stew in their anger for abit, and be sure to always give lots of warning before you are going to be unable to make a session.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-04, 12:24 AM
It does annoy me as a GM when a player can't make it, but there are varying degrees of annoyance...

If you tell me anytime up to the night before, I will only be mildly annoyed and somewhat understanding if you have a good reason.
If you tell me before I leave to go, I will be even more annoyed but you possibly had something come up at the last minute.
If you tell me while I am on my way to the game, I will be very annoyed, wonder why you made such a commitment in the first place and consider not inviting you back.
If you tell me right before we are about to play, feel the fury of my wrath and there is a strong chance you will not be invited back.
If you don't turn up at all without telling me, if you decide to come back something cruel and unusual will have been done to your character, thought up by the players and me when we realise you were a no show.

When I plan a campaign, I do so under the assumption that the same players will be with me from start to finish and I expect commitment. It saves my sanity. I totally understand if you can't make it one week, it happens, but if this is going to be continual then you may want to consider talking to me about reducing your role to a peripheral one or bowing out of the campaign altogether.

Sliver
2010-03-04, 12:25 AM
It is a game and a commitment. Unless you are doing oneshots that require no planning to run, your DM is investing his time so that you can have fun. If the game can be played without you, it's ok, you just need to tell them a bit in advance. If it can't, you have to tell them as soon as you know that you won't be coming. If the reason is only "I didn't feel like it" then they are right to be upset if you tell them at the last moment, or worse, they need to call you to ask why you are late and then you tell them..

I had a player that was always late by hours, sometimes not showing up so we couldn't know, and we were a small group and we needed to set time for gaming specifically, so it was really frustrating.

V: I really did facepalm at that. But I admit to thinking it when reading the title before reading the thread..

Flickerdart
2010-03-04, 12:26 AM
Remember: text trumps table. :smallbiggrin:

Fhaolan
2010-03-04, 02:56 AM
Now those 2 guysl get pissed cause they automatically think I don't wanna go cause I don't ''value'' the work the DM does and I rather stay at home and do anything.

I am not wrong in getting angry with em, am I?

If you did make a commitment to be there for every session then you do owe it to them to tell them that you will be unable to attend sessions so religiously from now on. If that is a problem for them, and they threaten to drop you from the group; the mature thing to do is to accept that without rancour and bow out of the group. Don't do it out of anger, or to spite them, just accept that your lifestyle at this time cannot accommidate such a heavy commitment, and maybe in the future you will be able to game with them again. If you still want to play RPGs, you're better off finding a group of light social gamers who use RPGs as an excuse to get together and spend time with friends.

Getting angry over a game isn't really that healthy for either side of this.

Kaun
2010-03-04, 03:45 AM
If your not really commited to coming to every session then tell them.

They will either work around you or replace you.

As a GM it is rather anoying when a player cant make it, i play with people who have children and responsabilities so it does happen from time to time and i live with it.

But when i get players who arn't turning up because there often not in the mood or have something beter to do i generally replace them.

In a way its like a sports team, even if its only a social team you still have a comitment to be there so the game can be played.

pres_man
2010-03-04, 08:20 AM
If you are upfront about not being a consistent participant, then it should be fine. Either they will be willing to pull your character "out of the hat" when appropriate or they will just ask you not to game with them.

Personally, I never turn down additional gamers (at one time there was 8 people at the table), and so I have no problem with people showing up occassionally, but I still like to know if the character is going to be that type. This way I don't include story elements that appeal to that particular type of character, just to find out that the player will not be there that session. I just don't take into consideration the player's character until it actually makes a showing, in which case I toss in a few more mooks to balance the encounters.

Emmerask
2010-03-04, 08:51 AM
Ok so, I have been playing RPG with some guys for like 2 years now.

At first I always went to the sessions because I was starting to Roleplay and it was all fun and games but then... well there were some days I couldn't go, either cause I had something else to do or I didn't really felt to go, but sometimes I ended up going anyways because... well I had a good time talking to em besides from the game.

However I decided not to go to the upcoming session cause I didn't felt like, I have troubles with my life and my brother is helping me out so well.... games in general aren't really a priority...
And there are 2 guys (The DM and another player) who ALWAYS go nuts when you tell em you won't go... why? I don't know they think it's a COMMITMENT, that we MUST go unless something VERY VERY VERY VERY important comes across... and well I think the only excuse I can give to them so they don't get pissed is ... ''My mother just passed away''.. and no I am not kidding... this thursday I will go out with my brother to a restaurant and then probably talk about going to Psychoanalysis sessions because those have GREATLY helped my brother and I suppose they could me too... since at the moment I do nothing but play video games all day for... well personal reasons.

Now those 2 guysl get pissed cause they automatically think I don't wanna go cause I don't ''value'' the work the DM does and I rather stay at home and do anything.

I am not wrong in getting angry with em, am I?


Well it really depends on how late you told them that you canīt be there. If its 2 or more days in advance it should be no problem.
But if its one day or even hours before the game and the reason is that you just didnīt feel like playing today they absolutly have the right to be angry with you :smallwink:
What you have to keep in mind is that other people have a life outside d&d too and maybe have rescheduled appointments/tasks just to be able to play that day and then hearing that its canceled because one person just didnīt feel like playing today is disrespectful :smallwink:

Iīm not saying you should put everything on hold just to play d&d and the "other people have a lot of things going on too" part is not meant as an insult or condescending itīs just something people tend to forget when their life is chaotic.
Just talk to them tell them that in the foreseeable future you canīt attend the sessions on a regular basis because there is just that much you have to do to get your life in order again, and ask if they would mind if you join the group as an intermittent player.

DabblerWizard
2010-03-04, 02:03 PM
Zonack, it sounds like your friends are giving you a hard time about not attending sessions regularly. It's okay for them to be less than happy when you don't show up, but it's not okay for them to "go nuts".

If someone was hostile towards me, I'd get irritated too.

Furthermore, in your case, not only are your friends acting rude and hostile, they're either (1) not aware of your personal situation, or (2) they don't care about your personal circumstances.

I'm going to assume that you haven't told them about your personal situation. They're unaware of your personal circumstances, and makes it hard for them to understand why you're spontaneously deciding to not attend sessions, and that can be irritating.

Maybe you'd feel comfortable telling your DM that you're having some trouble right now, and that it's effecting your ability to game with them. Being able to explain yourself a bit, might make them more sympathetic.

However, you don't have to explain your personal situation. (1) These friends need to be able to act maturely and appropriately towards you. (2) You have a right to psychological privacy.

As far as getting some therapy goes, I wish you the best of luck. :smallsmile:

I've been in therapy consistently for about 8 months now, and I have to say, I am so much happier because of it.




Zonack,

It sounds like you are suffering from stress or depression (or both). I encourage you to get that counseling...

Jackattack, are you a psychologist, psychiatrist, or a clinical counselor? Because if you're not, it's not appropriate for you to diagnose Zonack. Anyone can say that he seems like he's having a rough time. But as soon as you say he's "suffering from x" you've got into evaluation mode, and unless you're a trained diagnostician, don't make those kinds of claims.

You're trying to help. I can see that. You provided some helpful advice in your post. But don't diagnose unless you've got the credentials.

Sliver
2010-03-04, 02:29 PM
Note: It doesn't necessary mean they flip out or anything. Wanting more then a "I don't felt like it" shortly before the game when some probably have already arrived is reasonable. The fried of mine that I mentioned before, he is always late for everything (even not meetings.. Unless I constantly remind him, it will take him ages to make a char), and when I call him out on it he acts as if I am flipping out and goes "Yeah yeah... Are you done?"

For you, Zonack, it might be just a game and something to do when you hang out with friends, but some are more committed then that, and if you want to share their hobby even casually, you at least need to respect that and make sure you are on the same page, and if you still continue to play with them, make sure they know in advance when you aren't going to show up.

Sure, they might be overreacting, but if they are feeling that way, it means not everything is clear between you.

Superglucose
2010-03-04, 02:35 PM
Like anything you do, it's common courtesy to say whether or not you're going some time before hand. Usually this means more than "Dude where are you? Game started twenty minutes ago!" "Oh, I forgot to mention: I don't feel like playing tonight." I'd say that up to two day's notice is fine, especially if it's a "reschedule" rather than "I'm out for the weekend."

Try to get it closer to a week or two in advance though. Real life >>>> D&D, and if you're not having fun there's no point in going. Anyone who wants to "make" you come is doing it wrong, and by "it" I mean "D&D" and "life."

Gnaeus
2010-03-04, 03:03 PM
You are wrong getting angry at them.

When you sign up for a regular game you have made a commitment. How much of a commitment depends on what kind of game it is. If due to plot, character builds or other reasons they don't feel like they can play without you, you have screwed up their regular gaming night, and "I didn't feel like it" is not a good reason for messing up other peoples plans who were counting on you. In my game, there was actually pressure for me to attend the weekend before I took the bar exam, and they had 2 full weeks notice.

If it is a game with half a dozen players and one or more players are absent every game, it is way more ok to skip without a good reason. Even then, the DM is likely to be planning encounters based on the characters he expects to show up that night, and some otherwise good DMs aren't good at making balance adjustments on the fly. You still have an obligation to let them know that you aren't coming as far in advance as possible.

The fact that you are gaming all day probably doesn't make it any better in their eyes. First, because they would probably like to game all day too, but they have limited time to play and this is it. Second, because they may assume that you are home playing videogames in preference to their game. I know when I have a game planned and players drop out at the last minute because they are in a good raid or a new computer game just came out, I go absolutely ballistic.

If you don't want to go, drop out. Then they can make an informed choice about whether they need to find a new player to replace you.

Kaun
2010-03-04, 05:31 PM
Jackattack, are you a psychologist, psychiatrist, or a clinical counselor? Because if you're not, it's not appropriate for you to diagnose Zonack. Anyone can say that he seems like he's having a rough time. But as soon as you say he's "suffering from x" you've got into evaluation mode, and unless you're a trained diagnostician, don't make those kinds of claims.

You're trying to help. I can see that. You provided some helpful advice in your post. But don't diagnose unless you've got the credentials.

He has told him to go see a profesional its not like he started naming drugs he should take.

On that theroy if i see sombody come off there bike an there leg snaps back on itself i shouldnt say "Wow mate looks like you have broken your leg, you should go to the hospital!" Because my evaluation of a situation has stumbled to close being a medical diagnosis.

DabblerWizard
2010-03-04, 05:36 PM
Gnaeus, it is my opinion that your gamer friends take gaming a little too seriously.

When I decide to DM for a group, or when I decide to play in a campaign, I am not signing a legal, binding contract. I can decide to not attend or not host a game session for whatever reason. I don't need a good excuse to not show up. It would be nice for me to give prior warning. It would be helpful and decent to let people know how my plans might effect their gaming schedule. But in the end, it's just a game. Yet it's also true that my friends have every right to be perturbed by my lack of interest, or a lack of forewarning.

Life trumps fun. That's just how it works. As far as priorities go, the game itself isn't really important to me. How my friends feel, is important. Since I care about how they feel, they should care about how I feel, even if it conflicts with their rampant desire to play the game.

At no point is it okay for friends to become hostile or rude or "ballistic". That's just immature and inappropriate.

The fact that your gamer friends gave you trouble the weekend before a bar exam, suggests to me that they prioritize gaming too highly. They apparently don't care if your gaming jeopardizes an exam that is necessary for your future career. Talk about poor perspective.

Stubbed Tongue
2010-03-04, 07:24 PM
''My mother just passed away''.


My condolences.

If I were you I'd start my own campaign. It will take your mind off the troubles of the real world. Then you can DM for them when you guys get together.

Katana_Geldar
2010-03-04, 07:26 PM
Dabbler, it's not the fact that it is just a game, if you make a commitment, most people will expect you to honour it unless you have some legimimate reason not to. It's called common courtesy. And if people continually let you down for half-arsed reasons, why should you bother with them?

Most good DMs should make it clear to players what they expect in terms of turning up, likewise for the DM if he can't come. If the campaign is going well, if you're almost up to the final fight with the dragon, beholder, Sith Prophet, whatever, it is a little dissapointing that one person is just not interested. Sometimes you wonder what just was it about the campaign that was wrong? What didn't they like?

Also, groups have a synergy that is affected when certain people are missing. I know my group has much, much more fun when there is one particular person at the table and I think all my best sessions happened when he was there. He was just notoriously unreliable.

Ormur
2010-03-04, 07:51 PM
Do you have a set time every week you play or something. It seems like many people on the forum do it like that. In my games the DM and players always see when everybody can make it. It's a bit of a hassle but it means everyone can make it when they want to play. In a very large group we have that's impossible so the DM just schedules the session when he thinks most can make it and accepts that not everybody can.

I've been annoyed at not getting to play because other players had personal issues and couldn't make it but I also realized that theirs was a bigger problem than mine. Therefore I think your fellow players just have to accept what you're dealing with if they can't plan sessions around every player's situation.

DabblerWizard
2010-03-05, 08:05 AM
I agree with you on all of your points, Katana Geldar. Being friendly and reasonable and courteous towards your gaming group is just sensible.

And as I said, it's perfectly okay for group members to become bothered by a person's apparent lack of interest. That's a reasonable reaction too. They don't have to put up with it, if they don't want to.

In my previous post I was ultimately chipping away at the mindset that I thought Gnaeus had presented. There's no absolute necessity in gaming. It's a game, and people have a right to place it on a low priority. Should they tell the party that they can't or won't attend as regularly as the others might think? Sure. That'd be helpful.

However, even when it's a high priority, players don't have the right to suddenly "go ballistic" on each other when things don't go their way. That's unreasonable, in whatever circumstance.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-05, 08:34 AM
being a hardcore gamer and having to play my gams(i run one and pc the other) if i don't get gaming i have withdrawls and my girl friend becomes all unhappy(she doesn't play though).

But we don't invite people to games who arn't the same way. Though your loss is more then a reasonable excuse, can't remember if you have mentioned it to them(though you shouldn't feel like you half to) it may help to smooth things over.

Though i would ask them if thats what they expect. I tend to get pissy at players who don't show up because they feel like it or they want to go hang out with a friend they do every other night. though thats mainyl cuz there is a line to get into the games we play.

Gnaeus
2010-03-05, 08:37 AM
I agree with you on all of your points, Katana Geldar. Being friendly and reasonable and courteous towards your gaming group is just sensible.

And as I said, it's perfectly okay for group members to become bothered by a person's apparent lack of interest. That's a reasonable reaction too. They don't have to put up with it, if they don't want to.

In my previous post I was ultimately chipping away at the mindset that I thought Gnaeus had presented. There's no absolute necessity in gaming. It's a game, and people have a right to place it on a low priority. Should they tell the party that they can't or won't attend as regularly as the others might think? Sure. That'd be helpful.

That isn't helpful, it is minimal courtesy. OP is rude. He may have legitimate mental problems that are contributing to his rudeness. He is still rude. His friends have every right to react accordingly.


However, even when it's a high priority, players don't have the right to suddenly "go ballistic" on each other when things don't go their way. That's unreasonable, in whatever circumstance.

I don't suddenly go ballistic when things don't go my way. If someone tells me that they will be at my game, I expect them to be there barring some kind of unforseen event. If someone indicates that their on line gaming habit is more important to them than honoring their commitments and spending a few hours with their friends in person, they have indicated that they place a very low value on my friendship. In this case, they are welcome to sit in their basement forever playing WOW and drinking mountain dew until they go into a diabetic coma. I will kill off their character and find an actual friend to game with.

Delwugor
2010-03-05, 10:08 AM
There is an implied commitment to the gaming group. But it is a social commitment and there are times when as I say "reality gets in the way of fantasy".

If you have legitimate reasons every once in a while (such as getting with your brother) then I'd say you are fine. Also you do not necessarily owe the group an explanation, you may want to but just because you game with them does not mean they have to know what is going on.

If you are missing many sessions or missing because you don't feel like it, then I think the others have a reasonable complaint against you. And I'd say you want to think whether you really want to play or not.

Gnaeus
2010-03-05, 10:36 AM
There is an implied commitment to the gaming group. But it is a social commitment and there are times when as I say "reality gets in the way of fantasy".

Of course reality gets in the way of fantasy. If someone gets called into work at the last minute, or gets sick, or their spouse/child is sick, or their car breaks down and they can't get another ride, they can't go, and no one disputes that. A therapist appointment would certainly take precedence, IF you didn't have a good way to schedule it at a different time and IF you gave notice in a timely fashion.

"I didn't feel like it", or "I voluntarily scheduled a conflict" isn't reality getting in the way of fantasy, its placing a low value on your commitment to your friends.


If you have legitimate reasons every once in a while (such as getting with your brother) then I'd say you are fine. Also you do not necessarily owe the group an explanation, you may want to but just because you game with them does not mean they have to know what is going on.

That depends. Does your brother live in town? Would it have inconvenienced you a lot to schedule your meeting with him at a time that wasn't opposite the game? There are circumstances where meeting with a family member is a good reason to no show and there are circumstances when it isn't. Did you schedule your meeting with him then because you had to (decent reason) or because you forgot about the game and felt like it was easier to blow off the group than reschedule (not good reason) or because you didn't care that the game was running and it was a good excuse not to go(actively bad reason).

You do owe your group an explanation. Maybe not a detailed one, but enough that they understand why you are not there.


If you are missing many sessions or missing because you don't feel like it, then I think the others have a reasonable complaint against you. And I'd say you want to think whether you really want to play or not.

To say the least.

JeenLeen
2010-03-05, 11:07 AM
I strongly recommend scheduling a time unrelated to game to talk to your friends.

I've seen with my gaming group that we all have different ways of making priorities. If we have to cancel, we do give reasons because each of us value it, although I think we'd all accept "something personal came up." We might not think that one another's priorities are more important than game but we've learned to respect or at least tolerate each others' differences of priority. I've gotten upset when a friend cancels because of his favorite TV show or because he was asked to work a double shift, and my friends have gotten upset if I've canceled because of a church service, but we've talked about it and learned to just accept it without giving one another a hard time. We do make an effort to reschedule game night if possible.

If you just don't feel like it some days and that is reason sufficient to you to cancel game, your friends should be told that so that they know that is the priority. I would probably get upset -- not saying I should get upset -- if one of my gaming buddies canceled game because they just didn't feel like it, but if that's their priority, the friendship is worth more than the game. (If it happened consistently, we might exclude him from the campaign because our games are rather plot-oriented and we usually can't continue the game if one player is absent.)

Some upset at a last minute cancel is reasonable because your friends might have re-scheduled their own plans to make the game time. If their sacrifices are made moot, they have reason to be disappointed at least.

Like most problems ooc, it seems a good idea to have a sincere talk about it.