OOTS #705 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[TriForce]

TY giant! id expected something like this to happen, but its nice to see anyway

[danielmayer]

Team Peregrine, Team Harrier.... I'm sooooo exited!! ;)
The reference to good old Hydra-Burgers (first million ;) - priceless!
I love the strip!

[Prowl]

And here I was just about to complain about the lack of updates again... :wink:

[Laketh Stadt]

Great strip, but I did have to read the "message fom the scouts in team harrier has arrived" a few times to realize the message had arrived, not the scouts.

[tutti]

AzureOur city prison

Just wonderful :D

[Deatheater]

"It was a reasonable assumption." :smallbiggrin:

[Snake-Aes]

Savvy Niu!

[JoseB]

Goblin Dan! Yes! :smallbiggrin: Long time no see you, old friend...

And, finally, we see what Team Peregrine is up to! It was obvious that they would end up trying something during the big speech/celebration. And, with hindsight, it was also obvious that they would be trying to do something about the human prisoners in the jail.

Nonetheless, today's comic is VERY welcome and nice.

[Chocowatte]

Wow... I'm really hungry now. I wonder what hydra burgers taste like? Is it a lean heart-healthy meat?

Sincerely, Chocowatte

[nonbeliever93]

Oh god... that was a terrible pun.

But I love 'em!

[Haven]

Oh, this is gonna be good.

I bet that holy water is still going to come in handy at some point though. Knowing Tsukiko there might just be skeletons guarding the place anyway.

[Cicciograna]

Is it only me or somebody else hopes that the elven expedition fails?
I'm sincerely beginning to respect Gobbotopia and goblinoids in general.

[The Dark Fiddler]

What a great way to brighten my school day. Many thanks, Giant!

And yes, I believe that it was a very reasonable assumption for 'skeleton crew'.

Although I'm a bit worried by attacking during a celebration... they aren't planning on slaughtering citizens, are they? (No SoD spoilers if you for some reason respond to me, thanks. :smallsmile:)

[Yendor]

Hurray! The Resistance returns!

[infiniteviking]

I wonder if those burgers come from that hydra....

Anyway, yay for plot progression. Thanks, Giant!

[hamishspence]

Although I'm a bit worried by attacking during a celebration... they aren't planning on slaughtering citizens, are they? (No SoD spoilers if you for some reason respond to me, thanks. :smallsmile:)

It would not be entirely surprising.

[Snake-Aes]

It would not be practical or viable or reasonable to do so. If they're doing anything about the Gobbotopia Prison, they'll set rebels free.

[SPoD]

Although I'm a bit worried by attacking during a celebration... they aren't planning on slaughtering citizens, are they? (No SoD spoilers if you for some reason respond to me, thanks. :smallsmile:)

They're attacking the prison, well away from the celebration. The point is that the majority of the hobgoblins are occupied elsewhere, not that they're the target.

The prison is likely filled with slaves or captured rebels, which they will set free. They will probably kill the guards, though.

[Deca]

Whats the bet that she'll end up having to use all those vials anyway?

[Mr White]

The comic always makes up for the wait.

And Cicciograna, you're not the only one routing for Gobotopia:smallwink:

[KiwiImperator]

Egh, passing up a perfectly good chance to fireball a huge crowd of goblins to save some prisoners? Blast these Good people and their poor grasp of terrorism!
Still, good page.

[Killer Angel]

I hope for them it will end good. Xykon is still in town, after all, and I doubt it will be pleased to have a bunch of free paladins that can find his phylactery befor him.


Is it only me or somebody else hopes that the elven expedition fails?
I'm sincerely beginning to respect Gobbotopia and goblinoids in general.

Should we feel guilty, for rooting for the hobbos? :smallbiggrin:

[Aurorax]

Vive la resistance. Great to see this plotline moving forward. Been waiting to see the elves.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Woot! The Revolution is about to kick into higher gear! And yes, with Tsukiko around, and Xykon's habit of killing to fend off boredom, Niu was fully justified to bring holy water and bashing weapons. Besides, crushing damage will kill you just as dead as slashing damage... Useful that.

[Lord Loss]

HUZZAH!!! The Resistance! :smallbiggrin: - Let's hope they last (The goblin/ resisitance ratio =:smallfrown:)

[SPoD]

Xykon is still in town,

No, he's not. He's running an "errand" according to Redcloak (in the previous strip). Whether or not Thanh and Co. know this is uncertain, of course, but if they don't, then they've lucked into the absolute perfect time to stage a jailbreak.

[pluizig]

Would Hydra be red or white meat?

[Raging Gene Ray]

Goblin Dan and gouda...two obscure running gags that taste great together!

Also:

:redcloak: THAAAAAAAAAANH!!!!

[Zephyros]

Yet another well-done change of perspective by Giant. Well effin done :smallbiggrin: I really hope tho that the elves-bluebeards don't get their asses handed to them by a little teleporting necrophiliac goth girl and her party buddies.

[Katana_Geldar]

Nice! I expect we'll see a fight very soon!

[Maelstrom]

Would Hydra be red or white meat?

It's the other other Other white meat ;)

[Manga Shoggoth]

Savvy Niu!

Yup. Armed with a mace and a hammer...


(And I really needed something to cheer me up today...)

[Katana_Geldar]

And what looks like some vials of poison!

[Trixie]

Wow, the forum is acting wonky for the first time since the server upgrade.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Is it only me or somebody else hopes that the elven expedition fails?
I'm sincerely beginning to respect Gobbotopia and goblinoids in general.

Respecting goblinoids shouldn't mean disrespecting humanoids. Redcloak is a fascist, the Gobbotopians are slavedrivers, and the Azurites don't deserve to be imprisoned.

Thanh: He's like O-Chul Lite!

[Demonicbunny]

And what looks like some vials of poison!

That's holy water.

[Katana_Geldar]

That's holy water.

Oh, for undead then.

Somehow I think these will still come in useful.

[Obrysii]

I loved the mouse's path. It made me happy.

[J.Gellert]

Go Elves! Nice update today.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Nice!

Hydra-burgers...:smallbiggrin:

You know what's the best outcome here for both nations? The Azurites and raptor teams free the prisoners, but none of the goblins die except the guards. (They're pretty much dead.)

[shylocxs]

Goblin Dan and gouda...two obscure running gags that taste great together!!

I've missed the Gouda references! And Goblin Dan!

[Killer Angel]

No, he's not. He's running an "errand" according to Redcloak (in the previous strip).

Ah, yes, you're right. Totally forgot about that.

[Math_Mage]

And, the Elves fulfill expectations about *reasonable* actions to take in Azure City (as in, *not* Fireballing the crowd). One wonders how the elves + the Resistance will stack up with Tsukiko and possibly Redcloak/Jirix.

[Raging Gene Ray]

I've missed the Gouda references! And Goblin Dan!

We also have a new character. The one handing out the hydra burgers. I call her: Goblin Dan's Hot Wife!

[Nevitan]

Aw man, for the first time since I've been reading this strip my brain worked out the joke just from the title before I saw the strip. :smallfrown:

Aw well, Niu still looks really cool decked out with equipment and hold both those weapons, even if she probably can't dual wield those.

[Military Man]

This ought to be good.....

[hajo]

It looks like Jirix will not need to think hard about an excuse to cut the celebration short :smallamused:

[Astrella]

Is it wrong that I'm actually rooting for the goblins here?

[Tundar]

Forgive me for being blunt, but I love it!

[Kareasint]

Objective one: Eliminate anyone that looks like a Caster. The last thing that you need is a Dancing Lights signal to call for reinforcements.

Objective two: Eliminate any remaining guards.

One of the elves from the team has not been seen yet. Would anyone care to bet that said elf has a sniper position set up and has already selected a target for objective one?

The name of the strip had a joke also. "Graveyard shift" is when it would make sense to use undead. Can't have too many wights and ghouls hanging about the city either due to feeding requirements. So,skeletons are good general purpose foot soldiers. It would not surprise me to see undead inside though. Niu may get to use her weapons yet.

[DavidBV]

I guess having all the goblins in a party is a good chance to strike, but knowing that Xykon, Redcloak, and Tsukiko are about to leave town, maybe it would have been wiser to wait a little. And being in contact with Hinjo, they should know that.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Fantastic - especially the part with the Hydra burgers! :smallbiggrin:

[infiniteviking]

I loved the mouse's path. It made me happy.

Lol, same here. It reminded me of those Family Circus comics where there'd be a little line marking the kids' chaotic paths around the neighborhood.

[factotum]

Liked the strip, although why isn't Goblin Dan advertising himself on the Hydra Burgers like he does on the All-You-Can-Eat Hydra Head place?

[Asta Kask]

He's just starting out. He probably hasn't any ranks in Advertising yet.

Yeah, the goblin guards are pretty much screwed.

*starts whistling Mission:Impossible theme*

I count twelve guards, two of whom are clerics. They can't use blaster spells (fireballs, etc.) or they'll attract more attention than absolutely necessary. Challenging...

[binyamin20]

At last! Light has come! A new comic!
But, seriusly, isn't Niu a little over armed?

[Snake-Aes]

At last! Light has come! A new comic!
But, seriusly, isn't Niu a little over armed?

Armor, one morning star, one war hammer, and a few vials of holy water.
I think any fighter type starts with more than that at level 1. Say a guisarme, a longsword or scimitar, a shield, and a ranged weapon, and armor.

[Roc Ness]

Team Harrier, Team Peregrine! What other falcons are there? :smallbiggrin:

[Snake-Aes]

Team Harrier, Team Peregrine! What other falcons are there? :smallbiggrin:

Get a Caracara and they will dwell into actual badassery :p

[Blaznak]

Lol, same here. It reminded me of those Family Circus comics where there'd be a little line marking the kids' chaotic paths around the neighborhood.

Ah, beat me too it. That's the first thing I thought when I saw it: Shades of Family Circus. (And Billy was usually the wandering kid in most of those)

[hamishspence]

Team Harrier, Team Peregrine! What other falcons are there? :smallbiggrin:

Harriers aren't members of the falcon group.

I suspect further team names (if any) will be based on general "birds of prey" rather than falcon-types specifically.

[DabblerWizard]

A few comic strips ago, I was thinking about the residual rebel army left in the city after :haley: left. I hope their efforts aren't in vain... though I can't remember who is locked in the jail. :smallredface:

[Faltenin]

Yum - I haz hydracheezburger!

Someone remind me if we know of any "named" NPCs who would be in that prison? It feels like all those we know have already been freed/killed/undeadified.

Unless... dadadunnnnnnn!.... Miko wasn't really dead???? Just kidding (I hope).

[hamishspence]

I thought the prison, and the slave pits, were one and the same:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0547.html

When Redcloak was finished trying to persuade O-chul to talk, he said- "Send them back to the slave pits- they can tell the others how merciful we were"

And while talking among themselves, they say "Send the word to the next cell"- and their rooms have barred windows.

Maybe all the slaves are kept in prison whenever they are not being worked?

[Roc Ness]

Harriers aren't members of the falcon group.

Oops. :smallredface:

What group are harriers, anyway? :smallconfused: I keep thinking harrier pigeon, but that's definitely not right...

[Fragenstein]

Oops. :smallredface:

What group are harriers, anyway? :smallconfused: I keep thinking harrier pigeon, but that's definitely not right...

Sounds like you're thinking of carrier pigeons. Harriers are hawks.

[Nimrod's Son]

One of the elves from the team has not been seen yet. Would anyone care to bet that said elf has a sniper position set up and has already selected a target for objective one?
The pair of elves in the first two panels have never been seen before; they're part of a new group called Team Harrier. So that leaves three of Team Peregrine unaccounted for, not to mention any other new arrivals.


Armor, one morning star, one war hammer, and a few vials of holy water.
She's wearing some kind of holy symbol she never had before, too.

[Sijo]

Animal messenger? Why are the rebels using such a low-level, unreliable spell? Sending would've been much better. And how dumb are these Gobs that none of them noticed a mouse with a string on its tail running around?

Anyway, it's good to see the focus shift away from the boring goblins, even though I was hoping for more Monster In The Dark zaniness. And yes, the Skeleton Crew assumption was perfectly valid. Of course she could've just asked from the start. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if they did run into some undead in the prison just to be ironic.

I have a baaad feeling for the resistance, though. :smalleek:

[One Skunk Todd]

Looks like the goblins have been too busy looking for the phylactery to clean up much. Heavily damaged walls (palace walls?) near the tower and rubble in the streets. They would have been better off removing all that nice cover the rebellion is so happily using.

For what it's worth I hope Gobbotopia goes up in flames and Xykon laughs in RC's face about it.

[DnDgeek13]

more gouda

[One Skunk Todd]

Animal messenger? Why are the rebels using such a low-level, unreliable spell? Sending would've been much better. And how dumb are these Gobs that none of them noticed a mouse with a string on its tail running around?

Does the cloister block internal sending? Maybe Animal Messenger is the least bad of their available choices. I notice once the mouse gets out of the thick crowd it does seem to avoid gobbos in the street.

[Kish]

Sending: Fourth level cleric spell, fifth level sorcerer/wizard spell.
Animal Messenger: Second level bard or druid spell, first level ranger spell.

I can think of two immediate reasons to use Animal Messenger--starting with "maybe that group has a bard, druid, or ranger, and doesn't have a cleric, a wizard, or a sorcerer who knows Sending" and going on to, "Animal Messenger is lower-level, which is a reason to use it, not a reason not to use it."

[Vargtass]

It like the detail of population ratios: out of the about thousand goblinoids in the first panel, approximately 25 are green (goblins). Assuming we can't tell the difference between hobgoblins and bugbears at this distance, the estimate given in the Gobbotopia textbook (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html) (93%), is not too far off the mark.

[Rosnet]

{Scrubbed}

[Big Hungry Joe]

I enjoyed it - convenient that Xykon is missing, otherwise that attack would probably be over almost as soon as it started. Depending on how good the lines of communication are (wasn't Roy's dad supposed to haunt him the moment Xykon left the city?) they might also be able to mess with or slow down the phylactery search too. O-Chul knew it had gone missing, probably told others, etc. Good stuff all around.

[zql]

Yum - I haz hydracheezburger!

Someone remind me if we know of any "named" NPCs who would be in that prison? It feels like all those we know have already been freed/killed/undeadified.

Unless... dadadunnnnnnn!.... Miko wasn't really dead???? Just kidding (I hope).

If there's a chance Sangwaan is alive (11hd should resist 2d8 from the dragon's bite and whatever damage she took from the fall) she could be rescued from here. I can't think of anyone else.

[JoseB]

And we know something else!

If the cook in panel #3 is Goblin Dan, we *KNOW* that he must survive whatever happens! The excreta may hit the air impeller, but Goblin Dan is *guaranteed* to survive to a ripe old age while raking in the gp!

(and, given that Goblin Dan's business is one year old or, at most, 2, I don't know whether he would have expanded enough yet to have local employees in Azure City).

[Choco]

And here Niu showed up with bludgeoning weapons just for the skeletons... Luckily for her the goblins dont have any DR so they should work just fine :smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

I enjoyed it - convenient that Xykon is missing, otherwise that attack would probably be over almost as soon as it started.

No it wouldn't. Xykon would grab a bowl of metaphorical popcorns and start placing bets.


If there's a chance Sangwaan is alive (11hd should resist 2d8 from the dragon's bite and whatever damage she took from the fall) she could be rescued from here. I can't think of anyone else.

Tsukiko was in prison, wasn't she?

:)

[Otter]

They're attacking the prison, well away from the celebration. The point is that the majority of the hobgoblins are occupied elsewhere, not that they're the target.

The prison is likely filled with slaves or captured rebels, which they will set free. They will probably kill the guards, though.


Um, I actually think the question of 'they' referred to the gobbos. As in, if the resistance attacks the prison, will they encounter mobs of gobbos who are there to slaughter prisoners in celebration?

IMHO, no, no they will not.

[Saph]

It'll be nice if the elves and Azurites are successful. The goblins have had things their own way for too long, and I can't be the only one who's getting sick of their bragging. :)

[Acero]

Finally! Some action!

[Scarlet Knight]

HUZZAH!!! The Resistance! :smallbiggrin: - Let's hope they last (The goblin/ resisitance ratio =:smallfrown:)

Wait, I thought they were the "Sapphire Liberation Front"?

Don't forget to set some traps when the gobbos come running to the dancing lights signal on your way out...

[Asta Kask]

Wait, I thought they were the "Sapphire Liberation Front"?

No, they're the People's Front of Azure City. The SLF are hypocrites and splitters.

[hamishspence]

She's wearing some kind of holy symbol she never had before, too.

its not clear if they're always holy symbols- the brown cloaked hobgoblin who casts Dancing Lights (a wizard spell, not a cleric spell) had one.

They might represent both holy symbols, and generic amulets.

[Garwain]

For those who were cheering for Goblin Dan, this one isn"t him. Goblin Dan has a white goatie. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0326.html)

And yes he has grown enough to have a affiliate running a bussiness in Azure their city. After all, what else to do with a million goldpieces....

[hamishspence]

Maybe he will have a white goatee in the future- and is not old enough to, yet?

[JoseB]

For those who were cheering for Goblin Dan, this one isn"t him. Goblin Dan has a white goatie. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0326.html)

And yes he has grown enough to have a affiliate running a bussiness in Azure their city. After all, what else to do with a million goldpieces....

Actually, mister, as of now he DOESN'T have any goatee. The white-goatee Goblin Dan is telling, years after the events portrayed in comic #326 (the one you linked to), how he became set on his path to win his first million gp.

In comic #326, the young goblin in panel 8 and white-goatee Goblin Dan in panel 9 are wearing exactly the same clothes (blue shirt and gray short trousers). The goblin in panel 8 is Goblin Dan in the "present day", and the old goblin in panel 9 is Goblin Dan several years from "now".

Check the cook in panel 3 of comic #705: He is wearing a cook hat and apron, BUT it can be seen that he is *also* wearing a blue shirt and gray short trousers under the apron! [Incidentally, the goblin woman serving the hamburgers is, interestingly enough, wearing the opposite colour schema (gray shirt and blue skirt).]

If today's (#705) goblin cook is not Goblin Dan at the beginning of his career, I am willing to eat my own underwear! :)

[ScottishDragon]

Hmmm interesting comic,so thats why theres free food...

Poor Gobbotopia 1st day in and they are already attacking.

[Scorpions__]

Keep in mind how quickly Goblins seem to age in OotS however, it may not be too long before Goblin Dan gets a white goatee, depending on his age when he found the hydra.





DM[F]R

[Tyrmatt]

its not clear if they're always holy symbols- the brown cloaked hobgoblin who casts Dancing Lights (a wizard spell, not a cleric spell) had one.

They might represent both holy symbols, and generic amulets.

I naturally assumed it was an Amulet of Natural Armour like Durkons'. What else would be of use for a suitably low-mid level fighter rogue?

[Nimrod's Son]

its not clear if they're always holy symbols- the brown cloaked hobgoblin who casts Dancing Lights (a wizard spell, not a cleric spell) had one.

They might represent both holy symbols, and generic amulets.
I neither know nor care about the difference. :smalltongue: It's a necklace-thingy that's used to fight undead, that's enough information for me. I was just pointing out something missing from Snake-Aes's list of equipment that Niu had brought along; giving it the right D&D-accurate name wasn't on my priority list. :smallwink:

[hamishspence]

It's just that the only way a holy symbol would help someone who (as far as we know) is neither a cleric nor a paladin, would be if the enemy included vampires.

[rewinn]

Don't forget to set some traps when the gobbos come running to the dancing lights signal on your way out...

The Resistance & their friends know about the Dancing Lights trick. If discovered, they might decide to shoot off a few of their own to confuse the signal.

:redcloak: "Yellow moons, orange stars, and green clovers: that's not in the code book!".

:thog: "And green leprechaun hats YAY!"

[Silverraptor]

Ooooooo! Rescuing prisoners! This ought to get good.:smallamused:

[Nimrod's Son]

It's just that the only way a holy symbol would help someone who (as far as we know) is neither a cleric nor a paladin, would be if the enemy included vampires.
I think it's there more for the joke than for any real use it'll be to her. Big bludgeoning weapons + holy water + holy symbol = textbook undead-fighting kit. She might have some kind of magical amulet that affects skeletons and can be used by anyone - but that requires inventing a pointless backstory for an object she'll probably never use. Might as well just call it a holy symbol and be done.

[albis]

I guess today's strip answer the question "what were the resistance guys doing all the while?" XD

[Drolyt]

We should tally up some votes: Who wants the Elven insurgents to win, and who wants the Hobgoblin occupation to win? The problem is that in a way neither side is really the bad guy, that's Xykon.

[Optimystik]

Called it, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7774410&postcount=2) once again.

Yet another nail in the "Rich changes the plot if people predict it" coffin :smallamused:

[herrhauptmann]

All equipment arguments aside, I'm surprisingly happy to see the return of an old joke, and the continuation of others.
Goblins like gouda. (continued)
And the hydra burgers.

[fruityjanitor]

I think I speak for everyone when I say "YEAH HYDRA BURGERS!"

[Drolyt]

Called it, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7774410&postcount=2) once again.

Yet another nail in the "Rich changes the plot if people predict it" coffin :smallamused:

I'm fairly certain it says in the FAQ that he tries his damnedest not to read predictions anyways.

[B.I.T.T.]

Good comic.

Edit: Fruityjanitor does not speak for me when he says "Yeah Hydra Burgers!". Because I said "Hey, Hydra Burgers."

[Lord Seth]

I'm laying odds that, in the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar, IT'S A TRAP!

[Nilan8888]

Actually what I thought was most significant here was not the fight setup or what's going on in the resistance, it was who just happened to be serving the burgers, and it's got nothing to do with Goblin Dan...


It like the detail of population ratios: out of the about thousand goblinoids in the first panel, approximately 25 are green (goblins). Assuming we can't tell the difference between hobgoblins and bugbears at this distance, the estimate given in the Gobbotopia textbook (93%), is not too far off the mark.

Ayup. and notice that Goblins that are part of that 8% just HAPPEN to be the ones serving the Hobgoblins.

Sure, maybe it's just Goblin Dan. But on the other hand, maybe it's a subtle hint that in Gobbotopia, "some goblins are more equal than others".

I figure that's most emphatically NOT Goblin Dan. It's quite possibly a sign, among other things, of what's going to be happening with what Goblins are left to emigrate to Gobbotopia. Hobs, Gobs and inequality for all.

[Drolyt]

Hydra burgers are probably like barbecue chicken.

[Morthis]

I see some people mentioning Gouda as an old running gag, where was it mentioned before? I thought it was just a reference to Americans apparently considering Gouda cheese something special/fancy/whatever (when in Europe, it's pretty much just standard cheese you pick up from the store).

[Optimystik]

I'm fairly certain it says in the FAQ that he tries his damnedest not to read predictions anyways.

And I'm fine with that - I'm enjoying being right too much to want to have any kind of influence on events. :smallbiggrin:

[Prof. Farnsworth]

"No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!"

[/Prof. Farnsworth]

[hamishspence]

I think it's there more for the joke than for any real use it'll be to her. Big bludgeoning weapons + holy water + holy symbol = textbook undead-fighting kit.

True- and when fighting necromancers it might be wise to assume they have access to vampires & vampire spawn until proven otherwise- and take precautions accordingly.

Now we've seen Teams Peregrine and Harrier- what other bird names would fit the theme without being too obscure or odd-sounding?

Eagle
Hawk
Falcon
Owl
Kite
Condor
Buzzard
Osprey
Vulture
Kestrel
Merlin
Caracara

Any others?

[Dusk Eclipse]

The gouda thing seems to be a recuring joke, but the only joke that I recall using it was roy vs the half-ogre spiked chain.... can anybody explain it please

[JoseB]

I see some people mentioning Gouda as an old running gag, where was it mentioned before? I thought it was just a reference to Americans apparently considering Gouda cheese something special/fancy/whatever (when in Europe, it's pretty much just standard cheese you pick up from the store).

The love of goblinoids for Gouda cheese is a (subtle) running gag in the comic. Examples:

Comic #474 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html), panel 9.

(Edited to add)


The gouda thing seems to be a recuring joke, but the only joke that I recall using it was roy vs the half-ogre spiked chain.... can anybody explain it please

Well, in that particular comic (#216) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html) there is no direct mention of Gouda. You have Roy saying, in panel 2, "ah, I thought I smelled cheese nearby". But this is actually a reference to the word "cheesy" used to qualify something ("this is cheesy"). In this context it refers to something very contrived, with overtones of silliness and/or completely outmoded. It denotes that something is bad, badly done, and also ridiculous.

Comic #514 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0514.html), panel 2 and following, box marked "GOUDA - Product of Cliffport" (the goblinoids appear to be importing big quantities of the stuff).

There are others, I think, but these two are the ones that really come to mind.

[Optimystik]

Now we've seen Teams Peregrine and Harrier- what other bird names would fit the theme without being too obscure or odd-sounding?

*snip*

Keeping in mind that these are elves we're dealing with, we can probably rule out unwieldy birds like "Buzzard," "Vulture," "Condor" and "Osprey." :smallsmile:

[Fiery Diamond]

Is it only me or somebody else hopes that the elven expedition fails?
I'm sincerely beginning to respect Gobbotopia and goblinoids in general.

Me too, me too.

[warmachine]

I wanna know how the mouse jumped down the side of the building like that. The parabolic shapes of the movement line indicates it frequently jumped off the wall and fell back on it. As if it were jumping forward on the horizontal ground, rather down falling down a vertical drop. Does the building exert a significant gravitational force or something? And even if it did, there's still the gravitational force towards the ground. Smaller creatures aren't as affected by the square-cube law as much as humanoids but that drop will still turn it into roadkill. Is this magical mouse warping the gravitational field around it?

Killing catgirls to save the magical mice.

[Scarlet Knight]

Nah, just the wind blowing it back, travel is tough for a mouse...:smallwink:

[Nilan8888]

Actually I take back my earlier comment. I hadn't actaully taken a good enough look at the sign that specifically says "Hyda-Burgers".

Therefore there's a good chance that's just Goblin Dan after all.

[hamishspence]

Keeping in mind that these are elves we're dealing with, we can probably rule out unwieldy birds like "Buzzard," "Vulture," "Condor" and "Osprey." :smallsmile:

Osprey's aren't that unwieldy- still, the other three probably wouldn't fit, as carrion-feeders.

Though in Europe the term Buzzard refers to something resembling a small Eagle.

[Drolyt]

I see some people mentioning Gouda as an old running gag, where was it mentioned before? I thought it was just a reference to Americans apparently considering Gouda cheese something special/fancy/whatever (when in Europe, it's pretty much just standard cheese you pick up from the store).

I know nothing about any Gouda running gags, but at any rate Gouda isn't considered fancy in the States. It's a step up from the cheap crap like American Cheese, so I guess to some Americans that's fancy, but it's still a normal cheese you find in supermarket delis (like provolone or mozzarella) as opposed to a fancy cheese you need to order specially. I like smoked Gouda on sandwiches.

[Optimystik]

Osprey's aren't that unwieldy- still, the other three probably wouldn't fit, as carrion-feeders.

That's fair, but they're still huge (or rather, their wings are) and I don't see that as a great fit for elven subtlety.

Maybe there's a support/healing group - Team Nightingale :smallsmile:

[Aaron]

Free the Slaves! :smallbiggrin: Nice to see the Elves helping.


Hee, hee. Skeleton crew. :smalltongue:

[Nimrod's Son]

I figure that's most emphatically NOT Goblin Dan. It's quite possibly a sign, among other things, of what's going to be happening with what Goblins are left to emigrate to Gobbotopia. Hobs, Gobs and inequality for all.
He's wearing the same clothes as Goblin Dan; it's pretty obviously meant to be him. We haven't seen any other goblins wearing a light blue T-shirt and dark blue trousers, so it'd be a bit of a coincidence to see two who both happen to make a living cooking hydra burgers. He doesn't necessarily even live in Gobbotopia, either - maybe his burgers have got popular enough over the last year that he caters out on special occasions. Sunken Valley isn't too far away after all.


True- and when fighting necromancers it might be wise to assume they have access to vampires & vampire spawn until proven otherwise- and take precautions accordingly.
She was only expecting skeletons though. I think if she'd have been expecting vampires she'd have been drawn with garlic and a big cross. :smallwink:


Now we've seen Teams Peregrine and Harrier- what other bird names would fit the theme without being too obscure or odd-sounding?

Eagle
Hawk
Falcon
Owl
Kite
Condor
Buzzard
Osprey
Vulture
Kestrel
Merlin
Caracara

Any others?
"But why do we have to be Team Tit? Why can't we be Team Sparrowhawk?"

"Another team on another job is Team Sparrowhawk. You're Team Tit."

[Drolyt]

"But why do we have to be Team Tit? Why can't we be Team Sparrowhawk?"

"Another team on another job is Team Sparrowhawk. You're Team Tit."

Congratulations. You are now part of an exclusive club of 10 people that actually knew that word's real meaning. If the Giant actually used a joke that relied on something so obscure I'd track him down and...

[Optimystik]

"But why do we have to be Team Tit? Why can't we be Team Sparrowhawk?"

"Another team on another job is Team Sparrowhawk. You're Team Tit."

Okay, now I really want to see Steve Buscemi as an elf :smallbiggrin:

[Moran]

Now I REALLY want to taste a Hydra-Burger. With Gouda! :smallsigh:

[RebelRogue]

There are others, I think, but these two are the ones that really come to mind.
Here's another one I loved: Vampire Roy thinks the blood of a hobgoblin has a tasty gouda flavour http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html

[Petrocorus]

Egh, passing up a perfectly good chance to fireball a huge crowd of goblins to save some prisoners? Blast these Good people and their poor grasp of terrorism!
Still, good page.

Maybe they will do something like this as a decoy. For helping the main attack on the prison.



I count twelve guards, two of whom are clerics. They can't use blaster spells (fireballs, etc.) or they'll attract more attention than absolutely necessary. Challenging...

I count 3 cleric on my own, 2 with brown clok, one with a blue cloak.



If there's a chance Sangwaan is alive (11hd should resist 2d8 from the dragon's bite and whatever damage she took from the fall) she could be rescued from here. I can't think of anyone else.

Where did we learn she's lvl 11?

[Dervag]

I love the "elven special forces" vibe I get off these teams. They're not just high level, they're professional. Compare that to what people like the Order of the Stick act like when they're on a mission, and it's impressive.

[Petrocorus]

Congratulations. You are now part of an exclusive club of 10 people that actually knew that word's real meaning. I

OotS has improved my English vocabulary today.
Thanks.

And i like Gouda.

More seriously, can someone explain me the title?

[RebelRogue]

Where did we learn she's lvl 11?
She has cast True Seeing.

[Drolyt]

I love the "elven special forces" vibe I get off these teams. They're not just high level, they're professional. Compare that to what people like the Order of the Stick act like when they're on a mission, and it's impressive.

It's not just compared to the Order of the Stick, they are the only people we've seen so far in this comic that seem professional.

[Dr Bwaa]

Animal messenger? Why are the rebels using such a low-level, unreliable spell? Sending would've been much better. And how dumb are these Gobs that none of them noticed a mouse with a string on its tail running around?:

As someone else has pointed out, the Cloister might block it. As someone else pointed out, using a lower-level spell is a bonus, not a drawback. And finally, Sending has a ten minute casting time. This is seriously time-sensitive information, and even if the mouse doesn't save much time, it probably saves some. Additionally, Animal Messenger doesn't present the problem of having to defend the guy casting Sending if they're discovered. Much better procedure not to lock themselves down to one place while trying to communicate (since if they're discovered casting Sending it's super-obvious that they have outside help, whereas the chance of them being discovered with the Animal Messenger spell is basically nil).

[Optimystik]

More seriously, can someone explain me the title?

"Those don't take over until the graveyard shift" is a pun. ("Those" meaning the skeletons Niu thought would be there, the graveyard is a good place to find undead...)

The pun is because of the term "Graveyard shift" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_shift) - the last shift of the night, usually after midnight until dawn or just before dawn. It's unlikely that the elves are attacking during that shift, because it's unlikely the goblins would be awake and partying during it.


It's not just compared to the Order of the Stick, they are the only people we've seen so far in this comic that seem professional.

To be fair, Miko was fairly effective, even in a group situation (where she doesn't often find herself.)

[RebelRogue]

More seriously, can someone explain me the title?
The term 'skeleton crew' refers to the minimum amount of personnel needed to run and maintain a given place or thing. It's the bare bones needed.

Edit: ninja'ed, and I really explained something else :smallredface:

[hamishspence]

It's the bare bones needed.

:smallbiggrin:

I assume that pun was intentional.

[Drolyt]

To be fair, Miko was fairly effective, even in a group situation (where she doesn't often find herself.)
Miko was effective at her job I suppose, but these Elves really give off a feeling that they are elite. Even other highly competent individuals in the comic simply don't show this level of organization and planning. It might be an Elf thing.

[Optimystik]

Even other highly competent individuals in the comic simply don't show this level of organization and planning. It might be an Elf thing.

I somewhat doubt that - in Lirian's glade in SoD, the elves were quite panicky and disorganized until her little trick saved their sylvan bacon. They also relied rather heavily on scrying to get their intelligence, which doesn't seem in character with a race that's supposed to know every leaf and blade of grass in their domain.

[Drolyt]

I somewhat doubt that - in Lirian's glade in SoD, the elves were quite panicky and disorganized until her little trick saved their sylvan bacon. They also relied rather heavily on scrying to get their intelligence, which doesn't seem in character with a race that's supposed to know every leaf and blade of grass in their domain.

Well, at any rate this type of competence is rare in OotS.

[factotum]

Now we've seen Teams Peregrine and Harrier- what other bird names would fit the theme without being too obscure or odd-sounding?


Lanner? (I only know that because it was a ship in Elite 2, admittedly :smallsmile:).

[hamishspence]

I figure that's a little on the obscure side- still, its a possibility- Saker might also be a little too obscure.

Hobby is a possibility- but might lead people to think of the word for a pastime, rather than the falcon.

Merlin might lead people to think of the Arthurian character- but I like them, so included it anyway.

[Santiago]

Return of the Hydra Burgers!

Hopefully this assault on the prison goes well.

[Arti3]

So many old things in one comic.... AWESOME!

[slayerx]

viva la resistance
Now if they can make sure to take out those two wizards and prevent a dancing lights signal, then this attack should get off without a hitch


Is it only me or somebody else hopes that the elven expedition fails?
I'm sincerely beginning to respect Gobbotopia and goblinoids in general.

Hooray for Slavery!

[Scarlet Knight]

Return of the Hydra Burgers!


That's the problem with Hydra Burgers; so delicious, but they repeat... :smalleek:

[Drolyt]

Hooray for Slavery!
SoD spoilers might be found here:
This. The Sapphire Guard committed numerous unforgivable crimes against he goblin people, including the slaughter of innocent women and children. Shojo lied to his own comrades and bent the rules as he saw fit. Miko Miyazaki slew her own lord to fuel her sense of self importance and tried to kill the heroes. The Sapphire Guard are not the good guys (except for O-Chul obviously and possibly Hinjo and Lien, but even they were complicit in the slaughter of goblin children). The fact is though, neither are the goblins. They invaded a peaceful city full of thousands of innocent civilians (Azure City had defensive forces numbering 10,000, suggesting that the peacetime civilian population should be around 100,000* assuming those 10,000 were mostly conscripts), killing many and forcing the rest from their homes. Those who were left they enslaved and beat with whips while forcing them to do back breaking labor. This isn't even talking about their "supreme leader" who has watched thousands of his fellow goblins die for his "plan" and killed his own baby brother. It would be nice if the goblins could establish a peaceful nation and coexist with humans, but they are not the good guys. Hinjo has every right to try and reclaim his homeland for the tens of thousands of civilians he now has the task of leading.

*According to strip 406, Azure city has "Half a million citizens".

[TheBlackShadow]

It would be unwise to make decisions about the Elven Expeditionary Assault Reconnaisance and Support Force just yet. We haven't really seen them interact with each other enough to know for certain that they're NOT a group of pedantic, argumentative, dysfunctional mass-murderers, as seems the norm in OotSland. And as for the thing with the Animal Messenger and the imminent prison break, keep in mind that they've had weeks now to plan such a move.

Indeed, I would be extremely surprised if they maintain this professional appearance in later comics, as, going by our current experiences, it would make them the only sane, normal, professional individuals in the entire world.

[slayerx]

The Sapphire Guard are not the good guys (except for O-Chul obviously and possibly Hinjo and Lien, but even they were complicit in the slaughter of goblin children).

Not so sure about that... i mean depending on how old they are, Hinjo and Lien may not have even been born at the time of the last civilian goblin slaughter, and O-chul i'd wager was probably no more than a child (i think it took place about 30 years before the present time according top the fan-made OotS timeline). How much they actually know about the crusade to preemptively protect the gate is highly questionable... do they actually know goblin children were slaughtered or just the "forces that threatened the gate"... anyone who was around at the time would be in their 50-60's and possibly no longer actively serving the guard (except shojo)... as it stands we can't even be certain if anyone in the present day saphire guard knew about and were complacent (other than the likes of Miko) with the actions of the saphire guard from 30 years ago...

[DSCrankshaw]

Is it only me or somebody else hopes that the elven expedition fails?
I'm sincerely beginning to respect Gobbotopia and goblinoids in general.Me too, me too.
Not me. Assuming the prison is where the goblins keep their slaves, I'll be quite happy to see the slaves freed.

[Harbajar]

Whoo! New comic = new wallpaper!

:smallbiggrin: Hydra burgers with Gouda! :smallbiggrin:

Look at the little mouse go!

Excitement awaits!

[Drolyt]

Not so sure about that... i mean depending on how old they are, Hinjo and Lien may not have even been born at the time of the last civilian goblin slaughter, and O-chul i'd wager was probably no more than a child (i think it took place about 30 years before the present time according top the fan-made OotS timeline). How much they actually know about the crusade to preemptively protect the gate is highly questionable... do they actually know goblin children were slaughtered or just the "forces that threatened the gate"... anyone who was around at the time would be in their 50-60's and possibly no longer actively serving the guard (except shojo)... as it stands we can't even be certain if anyone in the present day saphire guard knew about and were complacent (other than the likes of Miko) with the actions of the saphire guard from 30 years ago...
SoD Spoiler might be found here:
From the Giant's commentary in Don't Split the Party: "The Guard had, with the sacking of Azure City, paid in full for the sins of Lord Shojo, Miko Miyazaki, and those of their own gods, who had implicitly allowed the wholesale slaughter of goblic villages in defense of the gates". You are correct that it is not clear that every Paladin was involved in or even knew about those crimes, but the fact remains that even if some of the guard (O-Chul, Hinjo, Lien, and in spite of his flaws Shojo) were good guys the organization itself was corrupt. There is every reason for viewers to feel sympathy for Redcloak and the goblin people. That said, it does not excuse them their crimes and most especially it does not excuse Redcloak's actions. Xykon's words to Redcloak near the end of Start of Darkness lay it all out. Redcloak thinks what he's doing is for the best, but in the end he's just like Miko. He's completely unwilling to admit that he made a mistake, that he could have been wrong. Righteye grew and learned, admitting to his faults and eventually dying attempting to do what he though was right. Redcloak has failed to attempt anything of the sort. So I think I can safely say that I hope the Elven insurgents kick some goblin ass and save the prisoners.

[Joerg]

While I like seeing the Resistance and Team Peregrine, I also wonder what influence this story arc will have on the big plot. Somehow I don't think Rich will show us a prison raid if it results only in some rescued commoners.


Will Xykon return?
Will something happen to Tsukiko?
Will Team Evil secure Gobbotopia now by defeating the Resistance?
Is there someone important in that prison?
Is the Phylactery somewhere in that prison?
...

[Drolyt]

While I like seeing the Resistance and Team Peregrine, I also wonder what influence this story arc will have on the big plot. Somehow I don't think Rich will show us a prison raid if it results only in some rescued commoners.


Will Xykon return?
Will something happen to Tsukiko?
Will Team Evil secure Gobbotopia now by defeating the Resistance?
Is there someone important in that prison?
Is the Phylactery somewhere in that prison?
...


I vote that there is someone important in the prison.

[cyan-shine]

Great update :D

[Saph]

I vote that there is someone important in the prison.

Rescuing Sangwaan would be cool. :)

But yes, I agree with Joerg. There's going to be something else, and it probably won't be anything we expect.

[Optimystik]

Rescuing Sangwaan would be cool. :)

Didn't she die? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html) (I'd be very happy if she didn't, especially if this leads to a romance wiith Thanh, and more importantly another juicy prophecy to chew on...)

[Saph]

Didn't she die? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html) (I'd be very happy if she didn't, especially if this leads to a romance wiith Thanh, and more importantly another juicy prophecy to chew on...)

Probably she did. But we never actually saw the Xs in her eyes, so it's a possibility . . . and it's fun to speculate on.

[Petrocorus]

Seriously guys! Could you put spoilers when you speak of event related in SoD.

Some of us didn't read it already.



Probably she did. But we never actually saw the Xs in her eyes, so it's a possibility . . . and it's fun to speculate on.

As says the trope: "We never found the body (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeverFoundTheBody)."

[Aerysil]

Mouse isn't much for the direct route, is it?

[JoseB]

Seriously guys! Could you put spoilers when you speak of event related in SoD.

Some of us didn't read it already.




As says the trope: "We never found the body (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeverFoundTheBody)."

Uhhh... If you are talking about the (possible) death of Sangwaan, it appears in the main webcomic. To be precise, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html).

[Sarcose]

I read the title before the punchline. Then I read the punchline. Then the title set in. Then I laughed for like ten minutes.

I'm a sucker for cheap humor.

[Drolyt]

Uhhh... If you are talking about the (possible) death of Sangwaan, it appears in the main webcomic. To be precise, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html).

I'm thinking it might of been my post, I did make some offhand remarks about events in SoD, so I went and spoilered both relevant posts just in case.

[Optimystik]

Uhhh... If you are talking about the (possible) death of Sangwaan, it appears in the main webcomic. To be precise, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html).

The very post you quoted explained why that might not be her death.

[slayerx]

From the Giant's commentary in Don't Split the Party: "The Guard had, with the sacking of Azure City, paid in full for the sins of Lord Shojo, Miko Miyazaki, and those of their own gods, who had implicitly allowed the wholesale slaughter of goblic villages in defense of the gates". You are correct that it is not clear that every Paladin was involved in or even knew about those crimes, but the fact remains that even if some of the guard (O-Chul, Hinjo, Lien, and in spite of his flaws Shojo) were good guys the organization itself was corrupt. There is every reason for viewers to feel sympathy for Redcloak and the goblin people. That said, it does not excuse them their crimes
But the question is whose crimes?
The crimes for the slaughter of goblin civilians is known to fall on the old guard and probably shojo, not necessarily the present day guard... should the paladins of today really pay for the crimes of their ancestors? it is accurate to say that they did pay the price of what the previous generation did, but that's not the same as saying it was right... so then it comes down to only whether or not they were or would be complacent with such attacks which is questionable... Why should we jump to the conclusion that only "some" of the guard was good? sure miko is brought up, but she is often painted as being the exception amongst the guard's ranks. Why should we conclude that the guard was STILL corrupt? i mean i don't think i recall hearing of any present day slaughters


When it comes down to it, if members of the current guard did not know about the civilian slaughters, and if it is unknown if they would have been complacent with such attacks, then those members of the saphire guard are almost as innocent as any other azurite citizen... THEIR only crime could really be nothing more than not knowing the truth of the corruption of the past guard...



Probably she did. But we never actually saw the Xs in her eyes, so it's a possibility . . . and it's fun to speculate on.
Well while the bite attack didn't kill her, the falling damage seems like it would have... however while she was a diviner, that still means she was a wizard, which does mean she could have featherfall; a spell you might want to prepare if you know you are gonna be ontop of a high wall

[Drolyt]

But the question is whose crimes?
The crimes for the slaughter of goblin civilians is known to fall on the old guard and probably shojo, not necessarily the present day guard... should the paladins of today really pay for the crimes of their ancestors? it is accurate to say that they did pay the price of what the previous generation did, but that's not the same as saying it was right... so then it comes down to only whether or not they were or would be complacent with such attacks which is questionable... Why should we jump to the conclusion that only "some" of the guard was good? sure miko is brought up, but she is often painted as being the exception amongst the guard's ranks. Why should we conclude that the guard was STILL corrupt? i mean i don't think i recall hearing of any present day slaughters
When it comes down to it, if members of the current guard did not know about the civilian slaughters, and if it is unknown if they would have been complacent with such attacks, then those members of the saphire guard are almost as innocent as any other azurite citizen... THEIR only crime could really be nothing more than not knowing the truth of the corruption of the past guard...
You are correct, if the present day guard was not involved (I'm not sure they weren't, there is no suggestion they ever stopped raiding goblin villages, but there is equally little evidence that they were) then it is not their fault. Either way I can see why some viewers sympathize with Redcloak and the Hobgoblins, especially if they read SoD.

That said, I think in the end that does not excuse Redcloak and the Hobgoblins of their crimes against the innocent civilians of Azure City. The Sapphire Guard has paid in full for their crimes, and now it is time that the goblins pay in full for theirs, so I really don't expect Gobotopia to stand, at least not this iteration.

[rewinn]

[Sangwaan] was a wizard, which does mean she could have featherfall; a spell you might want to prepare if you know you are gonna be ontop of a high wall

True indeed, and I wish it were so, but it would still put her at the bottom of a wall facing a horde of goblins that, in fact, overran the city. Hopefully she also prepp'd invisibility.

[factotum]

Well while the bite attack didn't kill her, the falling damage seems like it would have...

Belkar survived a fall from the top of the same wall with barely any damage when he killed Grand Larceny Guy. I think Sangwaan had to be at least 11th level to cast the spells she did, which ought to give her enough HP to survive a reasonable fall even without Feather Fall.

The question would arise, though--even if she'd somehow survived and been taken prisoner, why would she still be alive now? It's doubtful a blind woman would be much help to the goblins as a slave, and a mid-level wizard is possibly too dangerous to keep around!

[Drolyt]

Belkar survived a fall from the top of the same wall with barely any damage when he killed Grand Larceny Guy. I think Sangwaan had to be at least 11th level to cast the spells she did, which ought to give her enough HP to survive a reasonable fall even without Feather Fall.

The question would arise, though--even if she'd somehow survived and been taken prisoner, why would she still be alive now? It's doubtful a blind woman would be much help to the goblins as a slave, and a mid-level wizard is possibly too dangerous to keep around!

Because Redcloak is unwilling to kill defenseless victims?

[hamishspence]

Don't Split the Party describes his reaction to O-chul apparently refusing to talk, in these terms:

"For all his evil deeds, Redcloak can't bring himself to banish a bunch of humans to oblivion when it won't even help his cause"

[Degnared]

Another gouda reference (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html) on the second page, first panel. This was the first one that came to my mind.

[One Skunk Todd]

Belkar survived a fall from the top of the same wall with barely any damage when he killed Grand Larceny Guy. I think Sangwaan had to be at least 11th level to cast the spells she did, which ought to give her enough HP to survive a reasonable fall even without Feather Fall.

The question would arise, though--even if she'd somehow survived and been taken prisoner, why would she still be alive now? It's doubtful a blind woman would be much help to the goblins as a slave, and a mid-level wizard is possibly too dangerous to keep around!

They might think she had some information about the gates, and so keep her around to try and get it out of her.

[Drolyt]

Another gouda reference (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html) on the second page, first panel. This was the first one that came to my mind.

You guys really like gouda...

[Petrocorus]

You guys really like gouda...

I do myself.

....

Wait, i afraid suddenly... am i a hobbo?

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Thank you Giant! :smallsmile:

[Ridureyu]

Oh no, the evil Azurites are going to viciously assault the noble and peace-loving goblinoids! What will happen?

STAY TUNED FOR NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE

[Drolyt]

I do myself.

....

Wait, i afraid suddenly... am i a hobbo?

I'm not sure what you mean. Smoked Gouda is a tasty cheese, with some turkey on a cheesy baguette... Its delicious.

Oh no, the evil Azurites are going to viciously assault the noble and peace-loving goblinoids! What will happen?

STAY TUNED FOR NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE
Technically the Elves aren't Azurites.

[Ridureyu]

The evil Azurites and their horrically murderous elf allies!

[Herald Alberich]

I figure that's a little on the obscure side- still, its a possibility- Saker might also be a little too obscure.

Hobby is a possibility- but might lead people to think of the word for a pastime, rather than the falcon.

Merlin might lead people to think of the Arthurian character- but I like them, so included it anyway.

Forestgyre? (Are there other kinds of gyre?)


Another gouda reference (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html) on the second page, first panel. This was the first one that came to my mind.

I'm pretty sure that one's the origin of the gag.

[CrimsonAngel]

Wow, I realy liked this comic! :smallsmile:

[Drolyt]

Forestgyre? (Are there other kinds of gyre?)


I'm not even sure what a forestgyre is, but a gyre is a maelstrom or whirlpool.

[Hrairoo]

haha! oh my gosh, whoever called the hydra burgers was a genius. that's awesome! hmm, it looks like hinjo has been coordinating w/ the elves rather nicely. and two teams now? i wonder how many operatives the elves actually have in gobbotopia...

[Runeclaw]

they are the only people we've seen so far in this comic that seem professional.

Cliffport PD had a couple of decent pros

[Drolyt]

Cliffport PD had a couple of decent pros

Oh yeah, but really only the chief was at all competent, the incompetence of his subordinates was practically a plot point.

[Herald Alberich]

I'm not even sure what a forestgyre is, but a gyre is a maelstrom or whirlpool.

That's odd, I never thought to question the name, but Wikipedia comes up with nothing. A forestgyre (some sort of hawk or falcon) is the bondbird of a main character in Mercedes Lackey's Winds trilogy. The characters breed intelligent raptors as partners. All of the other birds mentioned (firebirds excepted) are real species.

[El Llamita]

I just hope that this is something more than a simple raid to release nameless political and war prisoners. It would be just too bland and overused.
But, again, knowing The Giant's work it is bond to be something a little more spicy.

I'm sorry if my input has nothing to do with the subject you were talking about.

[Crystalline]

Hmmmm

I always love a new comic

But this one is annoying

There is too much left unsaid. Too much that we don't know yet.

(Make more nowwww)

[CoffeeIncluded]

True- and when fighting necromancers it might be wise to assume they have access to vampires & vampire spawn until proven otherwise- and take precautions accordingly.

Now we've seen Teams Peregrine and Harrier- what other bird names would fit the theme without being too obscure or odd-sounding?

Eagle
Hawk
Falcon
Owl
Kite
Condor
Buzzard
Osprey
Vulture
Kestrel
Merlin
Caracara

Any others?

Hmm...Shrike maybe?

Team Shrike has a nice ring to it.

...Maybe I should use Team Shrike for my own team; Team Harrier's just been taken :smallannoyed: and I need something with sky imagery...

[Red XIV]

Thanh: He's like O-Chul Lite!
Hopefully he'll survive, so he can become O-Chul's sidekick. :smallbiggrin:


If there's a chance Sangwaan is alive (11hd should resist 2d8 from the dragon's bite and whatever damage she took from the fall) she could be rescued from here. I can't think of anyone else.
As I've said before, a blind spellcaster who walks around on top of battlements hundreds of feet tall with no railing, and she's not going to have Feather Fall prepared?


Oh yeah, but really only the chief was at all competent, the incompetence of his subordinates was practically a plot point.
The new guy was competent too. Hence his taking command once the chief died, despite being the most junior member of the force. And everybody else just going along with it.

[Gwynfrid]

Probably she did. But we never actually saw the Xs in her eyes, so it's a possibility . . . and it's fun to speculate on.

We did not see her among the people being processed for entry to Heaven, either. So, her fate remains uncertain.

Also, who says she has to be a wizard ? She could very well be a 9th level cleric.


It's not just compared to the Order of the Stick, they are the only people we've seen so far in this comic that seem professional.

There are plenty of competent people in the comic: The Oracle, Soon, the ABD, the IFCC... The "good, not dumb" Azurites are fairly capable. They got defeated, but they did a decent job facing pretty bad odds. Even Redcloak, for all his flaws, can manage an army and a nation quite well.

[Petrocorus]

As I've said before, a blind spellcaster who walks around on top of battlements hundreds of feet tall with no railing, and she's not going to have Feather Fall prepared?
Are we sure she's totally blind. I thought that the eye band was a custom for Azurite seers.



The new guy was competent too. Hence his taking command once the chief died, despite being the most junior member of the force. And everybody else just going along with it.

You ninja'd me.



There are plenty of competent people in the comic: The Oracle, Soon, the ABD, the IFCC... The "good, not dumb" Azurites are fairly capable. They got defeated, but they did a decent job facing pretty bad odds. Even Redcloak, for all his flaws, can manage an army and a nation quite well.

The Oracle and the IFCC are terribly competent. I am really concerned by IFCC's plan. But unlike them, as noted in the previous thread (i think), the Gods themselves are not really competent.

The ABD, i just can't remind who they are.

I wish we had more info on Team Harrier, all we know for now, it's they have one or maybe two rangers, who could a one or two druid. I just would like to see how they look like.

[Gift Jeraff]

Are we sure she's totally blind. I thought that the eye band was a custom for Azurite seers.Hinjo said she was blind in a War & XPs bonus comic.


The ABD, i just can't remind who they are.The ancient black dragon. :smallwink:


I wish we had more info on Team Harrier, all we know for now, it's they have one or maybe two rangers, who could a one or two druid. I just would like to see how they look like.
The various teams probably won't be too important, except maybe Peregrine. All we need to know is that they exist.

[veti]

The Oracle and the IFCC are terribly competent. I am really concerned by IFCC's plan.

The Oracle is so "competent" that he gets surprised in the bath, and murdered by malcontented psycho customers. If that's his idea of competent, I really wouldn't like to work his complaints desk.

The IFCC - let's hold off on deciding how competent they are until we see what their plan actually is, and how well they execute it. (I'm pretty sure "teaching V a moral lesson about power" wasn't at the top of their agenda, and so far that's about all they've achieved.) Setup is the easy part, and even that hasn't gone any too smoothly for them.

[veti]

That's odd, I never thought to question the name, but Wikipedia comes up with nothing. A forestgyre (some sort of hawk or falcon) is the bondbird of a main character in Mercedes Lackey's Winds trilogy. The characters breed intelligent raptors as partners. All of the other birds mentioned (firebirds excepted) are real species.

The name is probably taken from 'gyrfalcon', which has two possible derivations:

the Greek 'gyr-', as in 'gyrate' or 'gyroscope', meaning to go round in circles (referring to the bird's hunting pattern)
the old German 'gir', meaning 'vulture', referring to its large size relative to other falcons


See? Wikipedia does work. :o)

[Rev. George]

The Oracle is so "competent" that he gets surprised in the bath, and murdered by malcontented psycho customers. If that's his idea of competent, I really wouldn't like to work his complaints desk.

I think you may have missed the point... He's an oracle... he knows the future and can do nothing to stop it. Ever read many Greek plays/ myths? No matter what a person does, they cannot escape their fate. To do so is a monstrous act of hubris, and it never works- Take Oedipus for example- His (REAL) parents decide to kill him (via exposure) because he is prophesized to kill his father and marry his mother. He ends up being raised by 2 other people, but when he finds out that he will kill his father and marry his mother he flees to prevent it, and in doing so fulfills the prophesy.

The oracle knows when he will die (hence the lizard-man Clerics). He knows that his bath will be interrupted. He also knows that he cannot avoid these fates...

-+G

[Terbovus]

Hehe, great one. Another Gobbotopia fan, hope the prisoners can escape to the handy new ex-elven homeland that Vaarsuvius transported them to, and learn the errors of their goblin-slaughtering ways.:smallsmile:

[herrhauptmann]

"But why do we have to be Team Tit? Why can't we be Team Sparrowhawk?"

"Another team on another job is Team Sparrowhawk. You're Team Tit."

You sir, win this thread.
I love that movie.

[Draconi Redfir]

hydra burgers?


ITS GOBLIN DAN!

[CoffeeIncluded]

You sir, win this thread.
I love that movie.

Oh god, Mr. Blonde meets the elves....:smalleek:

[Draconi Redfir]

oh and BTW: GOBLINOIDS FTW!!!!

[Bitzeralisis]

Wow, that must be one nimble mouse, to jump down a building like that.

[Petrocorus]

The Oracle is so "competent" that he gets surprised in the bath, and murdered by malcontented psycho customers. If that's his idea of competent, I really wouldn't like to work his complaints desk.

I give you the bath. But the murder, he almost triggered it himself, he had the lizard cleric readied and founded a village just for this. I think he has been pretty competent at triggering Belkar's mark of justice and avoiding helping the girls raising Roy.



The IFCC - let's hold off on deciding how competent they are until we see what their plan actually is, and how well they execute it. (I'm pretty sure "teaching V a moral lesson about power" wasn't at the top of their agenda, and so far that's about all they've achieved.) Setup is the easy part, and even that hasn't gone any too smoothly for them.

On second thought, you're right on this one. They have been clearly competent at playing V, but it's not that hard to play with V's pride. And we don't know what they are planning and how they will execute it.

[brionl]

You guys really like gouda...

It's some pretty gouda edam cheese!

[deuxhero]

Would Hydra be red or white meat?

Is it a Cyrohydra or a pyrohydra?

[RoninAngel]

Cute. I like this strip a lot. I really like the creative use of animal massinger spell.
And the reference to the hydra bar-b-q many many strips ago. And Niu has a name so she might be important! Any time theres more cute Asian girls I'm happy. :smalltongue:

[ThePhantasm]

I'll admit, I'm not much interested in seeing what the Resistance will do. I am more interested in the main baddies, the Order, and in possibly seeing the Linear Guild again.

[Red XIV]

Are we sure she's totally blind. I thought that the eye band was a custom for Azurite seers.
Even if she weren't totally blind, being a wizard is in and of itself sufficient reason to have Feather Fall prepared.

[factotum]

And Niu has a name so she might be important!

She's had a name pretty much ever since her first appearance, why pick up on it now? And having a name didn't help Isamu much...

[Draconi Redfir]

well if Sawaggen(sp?) DID survive the fall, then the Crack pairings thread may need to revise all those Sawa/Mixo pairings were they meet up in the afterlife...

[hamishspence]

I'm not even sure what a forestgyre is, but a gyre is a maelstrom or whirlpool.



I've only seen it once- in the Mercedes Lackey Valdemar books- referring to a falcon.

I figure it's probably a derivative of Gyrfalcon- maybe there's a close relative of the Gyrfalcon that lives in forests, called the forestgyre?

[snafu]

Elves live a long time, so these guys might have some older cousins around as backup in case things get nasty. An operation like this ought to have a heavy squad lurking outside the city to call upon to cover their exit, just in case.

Team Utahraptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Utahraptor_BW.jpg), anybody?

(hey, it's not stretching the bird theme _that_ far...)

[hamishspence]

Place locations might make it a bit iffy.

Team Raptor- on the other hand, doesn't stretch the bird theme at all.

Alternatively, it could be the name of the whole Elf Liberation Force.

[shylocxs]

more gouda

resist the gouda oppressors!

[shylocxs]

Hehe, great one. Another Gobbotopia fan, hope the prisoners can escape to the handy new ex-elven homeland that Vaarsuvius transported them to, and learn the errors of their goblin-slaughtering ways.:smallsmile:

Can I get a what what for the Goblin nation!

[Drolyt]

There are plenty of competent people in the comic: The Oracle, Soon, the ABD, the IFCC... The "good, not dumb" Azurites are fairly capable. They got defeated, but they did a decent job facing pretty bad odds. Even Redcloak, for all his flaws, can manage an army and a nation quite well.

Oh, several characters in the comic, including the titular order, are competent in the sense that they get things done. That doesn't change the fact that until now we've never seen anyone who can act professional and get things done efficiently without blundering their way through it.

[Sijo]

I still think that Animal Messenger is a terrible spell to use under those circumstances. IF the Cloister affects communication spells, it would block lower spells even more easily... the mouse would've gone its own merry way. And while sending takes time to cast, how long did it take that mouse to reach its target? Not to mention that a sending cannot be intercepted by A HUNGRY CROWD OF GOBLINS. Why not use a bird instead?

No, the only reason I see to use it is because the caster didn't know anything else.

[hamishspence]

On Cloister:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html

It only affects communication spells going in.

That said- Animal Messenger may have the advantage of being more innocuous- not drawing undue attention.

[Shale]

Animal Messenger isn't a communication spell per se. It's an enchantment - mind-affecting compulsion, to be specific - that makes an animal carry a written message or other small item to a designated person or place. It's a loophole in the abjuration (and one that was already shown to work, when Vaarsuvius used a modified version of the same spell to find the still-Cloistered Haley). And while it might take time for the animal to get from Point A to Point B, the caster doesn't have to stay still and chant, defenseless, for that entire time. Hence, it's a better option for guerrillas whose lives will be in serious danger if they're noticed.

[hamishspence]

Its worth remembering that creatures which were present at the time the spell was cast, become uncontactable-

whereas creatures that come into the area (going by the description, which says spells cast within the area function just fine) should be able to communicate as normal.

So unless Xykon cast the spell again, it should be possible for people inside the area who weren't there when the spell was cast, to communicate.

[factotum]

That doesn't change the fact that until now we've never seen anyone who can act professional and get things done efficiently without blundering their way through it.

So, what were Redcloak's main blunders when he won the battle of Azure City, then? (Note that blunders made by Xykon don't count here, because Redcloak can hardly control him at the best of times...).

[rewinn]

Animal Messenger ... while it might take time for the animal to get from Point A to Point B, the caster doesn't have to stay still and chant, defenseless, for that entire time. Hence, it's a better option for guerrillas whose lives will be in serious danger if they're noticed.

Plus - if gobbos ate every mouse that ran by, there wouldn't be any mice by now for the Elfs to conscript with the spell.

Mice are really good at hiding from bipeds. There may be one creeping up on you right now.

[Mikkeldk]

i love to see Goblin Dan is back in show :smallbiggrin: but i want to see Xykon:smallfrown: ooooo, what do he do, its a spoooooky mystery!

[slayerx]

So, what were Redcloak's main blunders when he won the battle of Azure City, then?

Well there was that whole, "letting the hobgoblins die like lemmings" thing for the first half of the battle... just because he didn't like the hobgoblins was no escuse for him to act in such an unprofessional manner and let them die instead of using his forces more efficiently... and he did kind of blunder on the eye of fear and flame

But ya, redcloak is pretty professional when it comes to getting the job done


And while sending takes time to cast, how long did it take that mouse to reach its target?

Sending is a 5th level wizard, 4th level cleric spell... Animal messenger is only 1st level ranger... do you know how much more damage you could do with a 5th level wizard spell slot? there are like a dozen or so spells that would useful for infiltrating and rescuing slaves... that's a much better use for a mid-level spell slot as opposed to using it just to tell you're forces "go"



Not to mention that a sending cannot be intercepted by A HUNGRY CROWD OF GOBLINS. Why not use a bird instead?
Since when do goblins eat any little rodent they happen to see passing along the ground when they have a city and plenty of food at home... it's not like they starving and have barely enough to feed themselves...

and What the hell kind of goblin would waste room in his stomach on a raw mouse when he's waiting for "Goblin Dan's Delicious Hydra Burgers with Gouda!"

[Drolyt]

Has anyone considered that they don't have access to sufficiently high level wizards or clerics? The elves appear to be rangers, which would be far more suited to infiltration and battle than a wizard or cleric unless they happened to be pretty high level, which I doubt. Besides that I was under the impression that a sending spell would be blocked, whereas an animal messenger would not be.

[deworde]

I still think that Animal Messenger is a terrible spell to use under those circumstances. IF the Cloister affects communication spells, it would block lower spells even more easily... the mouse would've gone its own merry way. And while sending takes time to cast, how long did it take that mouse to reach its target? Not to mention that a sending cannot be intercepted by A HUNGRY CROWD OF GOBLINS. Why not use a bird instead?


You're confusing the time the message takes to reach the target with the time the sender is locked down. Your way requires that he spend 10 minutes effectively helpless. Their way means he spends less than a minute.

And a bird is much more likely to be spotted, shot and eaten than a rat.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html

Also, where have we seen any sign that OoTS goblins eat rats? Especially at a celebration. I can't tell you how many family barbeques I've been to where I ignored the barbeque meat in order to chase vermin. You speciesist.

[slayerx]

Has anyone considered that they don't have access to sufficiently high level wizards or clerics? The elves appear to be rangers, which would be far more suited to infiltration and battle than a wizard or cleric unless they happened to be pretty high level, which I doubt. Besides that I was under the impression that a sending spell would be blocked, whereas an animal messenger would not be.

We know from team peregrine's entrance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), that they have atleast one wizard/sorcerer who has access to 5th level spells (teleport) and as well as a Cleric able to cast "sending"... we are looking at waht appears to be a lv9 party... though it is worth added that if 5th level is their max level for casting then that means they have very few spells slots, and thus sending would not be worth preparing as opposed to other spells

Furtharmore, from the explanation on "Cloister" communication spells and such work normally when used within the cloister's effect area (which is also why tsukiko can teleport inside the city, but V needed epic teleporting to get in)... the only thing that is cut off is sending communication INTO the cloister area from the outside... not to mention the elves themselves were not there when the spell was cast so they are not personally targeted


And i would also add that caster would be GREAT for infiltrations... Spells like invisibility, passwall, teleport, dimension door, transmute Rock to mud, detect magic, spider climb, hold person, disguise self, various illusion spells, and much more would all work great for infiltration... not to mention one thing that would be of great use would be "counterspell dancing lights"

[Drolyt]

We know from team peregrine's entrance, that they have atleast one wizard/sorcerer who has access to 5th level spells (teleport) and as well as a Cleric able to cast "sending"... we are looking at waht appears to be a lv9 party... though it is worth added that if 5th level is their max level for casting then that means they have very few spells slots, and thus sending would not be worth preparing as opposed to other spells

Furtharmore, from the explanation on "Cloister" communication spells and such work normally when used within the cloister's effect area (which is also why tsukiko can teleport inside the city, but V needed epic teleporting to get in)... the only thing that is cut off is sending communication INTO the cloister area from the outside... not to mention the elves themselves were not there when the spell was cast so they are not personally targeted


And i would also add that caster would be GREAT for infiltrations... Spells like invisibility, passwall, teleport, dimension door, transmute Rock to mud, various illusion spells, and the ability to counterspells (like say dancing lights) would all work great for inflitration

Only high level casters are good for infiltration. Until you can cast spells like greater invisibility, knock, dimension door, preferably greater teleport, etc. reliably multiple times a day a spellcaster, with his low hit points and few skills, does not make a good infiltrator. Clerics are even worse. Unless team peregrine/harrier is as strong as the Order of the Stick I highly doubt that. For all we know they used a magic item to arrive there. At any rate the way I understood the cloister it would effect anyone trying to send a message into the cloister, so that if you were in the cloister you could send a message out but not to someone else in the cloister. I might be wrong though. At any rate unless they are higher level than the order 5th level spell slots are extremely precious.

[Herald Alberich]

We know from team peregrine's entrance, that they have atleast one wizard/sorcerer who has access to 5th level spells (teleport) and as well as a Cleric able to cast "sending"... we are looking at waht appears to be a lv9 party... though it is worth added that if 5th level is their max level for casting then that means they have very few spells slots, and thus sending would not be worth preparing as opposed to other spells

That's Team Peregrine, though, while the scouts were from Team Harrier. Peregrine was probably sent in first precisely because they include high-level casters in their squad; the other teams might not be so elite. I got the impression that Peregrine was using the Summoning loophole to bring the other teams in, so the teams themselves need not have high-level casters of their own. Animal Messenger may be all that they're capable of.

Which is not to discount all the other advantages it has that others have pointed out. Low-level (saving higher-level spells for when they're needed); shorter casting time in a very time-sensitive situation; and a rat running around outdoors in a ruined city is probably not a noteworthy occurrence in any case, thought it would make more sense if it had hugged the buildings instead of running straight through the crowd.

[Agi Hammerthief]

There's going to be something else, and it probably won't be anything we expect.
the Spanish Inquisition?

[Drolyt]

the Spanish Inquisition?
I, uh, what?

That's Team Peregrine, though, while the scouts were from Team Harrier. Peregrine was probably sent in first precisely because they include high-level casters in their squad; the other teams might not be so elite. I got the impression that Peregrine was using the Summoning loophole to bring the other teams in, so the teams themselves need not have high-level casters of their own. Animal Messenger may be all that they're capable of.
Yeah, I had thought that might be the case too. Thing is, is there a spell that allows you to basically summon other people on the same plane to your location? I suppose it is also possible Peregrine secured their position and other, less elite teams came on foot.

[slayerx]

Only high level casters are good for infiltration. Until you can cast spells like greater invisibility, knock, dimension door, preferably greater teleport, etc. reliably multiple times a day a spellcaster, with his low hit points and few skills, does not make a good infiltrator. Clerics are even worse. Unless team peregrine/harrier is as strong as the Order of the Stick I highly doubt that. For all we know they used a magic item to arrive there. At any rate the way I understood the cloister it would effect anyone trying to send a message into the cloister, so that if you were in the cloister you could send a message out but not to someone else in the cloister. I might be wrong though. At any rate unless they are higher level than the order 5th level spell slots are extremely precious.

Alarm, Hold portal, Obscuring mist, sleep, hypnotism, charm person, color spray, disquise self, Ventriloquism, grease, detect undead, silent image, unseen servant... all 1st level spells i could see use for during infiltrations

Furtharmore, a wizard that's able to get 5th level spells would also have access to a healthy does of 3rd level spells... hell aside from naming obvious spells like invisibility, we can also get creative such as using Summon monster III to summon up a bunch of low level monsters to help cover an escape... and ya sure, invisibility isn't as good greater invisibility, but it does help serve the all important purpose of getting the drop on the Goblins; namely killing the wizards before they can let off a distress signal.

And the spells they have few uses of would be invaluable to have along for the ride... such as using teleport to get a team out, or a fire wall to block off pursuit... those spells might be big and flashy and attract attention, but that's not something you are too worried about if you have already been discovered and need to escape... and since most of their missions will result in a fight, their are some non-flashing offesive spells they can use to help out

Hell there is even a zero level spell that the elves would find useful... Dancing lights... as in, "couterspell dancing lights"


And clerics would also be invaluable... the rebels are bound to take plenty of damage duirng their attacks and the clerics can help keep them alive... and let us not forget about "turn undead" since undead have been known to make a good portion of goblins forces (which we can add detect and hide from undead to the list of useful cleric spells)... and i do think it would be wrong to underestimate the usefulness of spell buffs for the rebel fighters



Yeah, I had thought that might be the case too. Thing is, is there a spell that allows you to basically summon other people on the same plane to your location? I suppose it is also possible Peregrine secured their position and other, less elite teams came on foot.
I don't think there's one in DnD... we know that Dorukon had one that he used to summon Lirian... however we don't know if that spell was exclusive to him (as in he personally researched it), or what level the spell was


I, uh, what?
no one ever expects it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A)

[Herald Alberich]

Thing is, is there a spell that allows you to basically summon other people on the same plane to your location?

There is now, I guess. There have been long debates on whether Celia's talisman was actually a Calling effect (based on how long she stayed and her worries about dying), and if that means Calling is included in the loophole too. I'm not really well-versed enough in the differences to comment there.

The thing to keep in mind is, the Summoning loophole was included in the first place to bring Lirian from the elven forests to Dorukan's tower. She was on the same plane he was.

[Drolyt]

Alarm, Hold portal, Obscuring mist, sleep, hypnotism, charm person, color spray, disquise self, Ventriloquism, grease, detect undead, silent image, unseen servant... all 1st level spells i could see use for during infiltrations

Furtharmore, a wizard that's able to get 5th level spells would also have access to a healthy does of 3rd level spells... hell aside from naming obvious spells like invisibility, we can also get creative such as using Summon monster III to summon up a bunch of low level monsters to help cover an escape... and ya sure, invisibility isn't as good greater invisibility, but it does help serve the all important purpose of getting the drop on the Goblins; namely killing the wizards before they can let off a distress signal.

And the spells they have few uses of would be invaluable to have along for the ride... such as using teleport to get a team out, or a fire wall to block off pursuit... those spells might be big and flashy and attract attention, but that's not something you are too worried about if you have already been discovered and need to escape... and since most of their missions will result in a fight, their are some non-flashing offesive spells they can use to help out
Hell there is even a zero level spell that the elves would find useful... Dancing lights... as in, "couterspell dancing lights"
And clerics would also be invaluable... the rebels are bound to take plenty of damage duirng their attacks and the clerics can help keep them alive... and let us not forget about "turn undead" since undead have been known to make a good portion of goblins forces (which we can add detect and hide from undead to the list of useful cleric spells)... and i do think it would be wrong to underestimate the usefulness of spell buffs for the rebel fighters


Oh, they can be useful yes, but the covert infiltration relies on being, well, covert. Unless they are high enough level to remain invisible during the whole operation I just don't see it going too well.

[Math_Mage]

That's Team Peregrine, though, while the scouts were from Team Harrier. Peregrine was probably sent in first precisely because they include high-level casters in their squad; the other teams might not be so elite. I got the impression that Peregrine was using the Summoning loophole to bring the other teams in, so the teams themselves need not have high-level casters of their own. Animal Messenger may be all that they're capable of.

It's possible that Team Peregrine is *better* than the teams that followed, but highly unlikely that they're exploiting any loophole to summon lots of elven mooks. Their role, as explained, was to 'coordinate further insertions' with Thanh--it takes some very heavy parsing to reach the conclusion that no other teams will be 'inserted' as they were. If anything, I would expect 'elite' heavy artillery to be coming in once the infiltration party has established a secure traffic route. Certainly every party will need its own caster to handle the initial teleport.


Which is not to discount all the other advantages it has that others have pointed out. Low-level (saving higher-level spells for when they're needed); shorter casting time in a very time-sensitive situation; and a rat running around outdoors in a ruined city is probably not a noteworthy occurrence in any case, thought it would make more sense if it had hugged the buildings instead of running straight through the crowd.

In light of which it doesn't make sense to draw any conclusions about the level of Team Harrier from the use of one pseudo-communication spell. One might as well think Miko was just a messenger-level character because she was carrying Durkon's letter from the High Priest of Thor.

[plasma ball]

wow. I have a really bad spot check if I can't spot the goblin Dan refrances all over the place. I had to follow a few links to actualy understand.:smallfrown: why don't they come from the back of the prison? It doesn't look like there's a fence back there. It would be a lot easear. But no one said that those people are smart.

[BillyJimBoBob]

"But why do we have to be Team Tit? Why can't we be Team Sparrowhawk?"

"Another team on another job is Team Sparrowhawk. You're Team Tit."

Mr. Pink: Hey, why am I Mr. Pink?
Joe: Because you're a <deleted pejorative indicating sexual orientation>.
Mr. Pink: Why can't we pick our own colors?
Joe: No way, no way. Tried it once, doesn't work. You got four guys all fighting over who's gonna be Mr. Black, but they don't know each other, so nobody wants to back down. No way. I pick. You're Mr. Pink. Be thankful you're not Mr. Yellow.0123456789

[Drolyt]

It's possible that Team Peregrine is *better* than the teams that followed, but highly unlikely that they're exploiting any loophole to summon lots of elven mooks. Their role, as explained, was to 'coordinate further insertions' with Thanh--it takes some very heavy parsing to reach the conclusion that no other teams will be 'inserted' as they were. If anything, I would expect 'elite' heavy artillery to be coming in once the infiltration party has established a secure traffic route. Certainly every party will need its own caster to handle the initial teleport.

Coordinate further insertions could very well mean they were the only ones capable of teleporting in like that so their job was to create land routes for other teams to sneak in unnoticed. Certainly from the available information we cannot know for sure, but it is a possibility. Another one, and the one I initially thought was that they were creating a safe place for further teleports to take place. Another thing though is that only greater teleport can teleport that accurately. Unless all the insurgents have a 13th level wizard on their team I really doubt everyone is going to get there by teleport.

[multilis]

Unless all the insurgents have a 13th level wizard on their team I really doubt everyone is going to get there by teleport.
Wouldn't you reuse the same mages, teleporting different parties every day? After the first day they would know the teleport locations exactly.

During first days you scout and set up supply routes, hideouts and escape routes.

[slayerx]

Coordinate further insertions could very well mean they were the only ones capable of teleporting in like that so their job was to create land routes for other teams to sneak in unnoticed. Certainly from the available information we cannot know for sure, but it is a possibility. Another one, and the one I initially thought was that they were creating a safe place for further teleports to take place. Another thing though is that only greater teleport can teleport that accurately. Unless all the insurgents have a 13th level wizard on their team I really doubt everyone is going to get there by teleport.

Well the thing is i would not imagine they would use the term "coordinate" to mean summoning into more allies... afterall, they could just teleport them all in from within the caves to one spot; that doesn't take much coordination... what would take coordination is figuring out all the possible entrances from the outside to the caves as well as knowing all of the goblin guard stations... now THAT would take some mutual coordination with Thahn... and as the person above mentioned, if their wizard can teleport more than once per day then its more then feasible to use the same wizard to teleport in teams to outside azure city

Also "teleport" is only 5th level spell, and only requires a 9th level wizard... A 9th level wizard can teleport 3 other people including himself, which is how many people we seen in team peregrine... also unless Shojo's wizard was lv18 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0366.html) then i'd say that rich has some flexibility when it comes down to how many people can be moved with a simple "teleport" spell, and thus there being no need for "greater teleport"

[Vaarsuvius4181]

I just noticed the hydra burgers lol

[Drolyt]

Well the thing is i would not imagine they would use the term "coordinate" to mean summoning into more allies... afterall, they could just teleport them all in from within the caves to one spot; that doesn't take much coordination... what would take coordination is figuring out all the possible entrances from the outside to the caves as well as knowing all of the goblin guard stations... now THAT would take some mutual coordination with Thahn... and as the person above mentioned, if their wizard can teleport more than once per day then its more then feasible to use the same wizard to teleport in teams to outside azure city

Also "teleport" is only 5th level spell, and only requires a 9th level wizard... A 9th level wizard can teleport 3 other people including himself, which is how many people we seen in team peregrine... also unless Shojo's wizard was lv18 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0366.html) then i'd say that rich has some flexibility when it comes down to how many people can be moved with a simple "teleport" spell, and thus there being no need for "greater teleport"

I didn't think of the possibility of one wizard teleporting all the teams in, that's a good point. I still say he would have to be 13th level though. A regular teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Teleport.htm) has a slight risk of being off target, which could be very bad if they for example were teleported somewhere that would alert the whole city to their presence. Of course The Giant might be taking liberties with that.

[slayerx]

eh the chance of failure is so small i doubt they'd worry about it... no one would use teleport if they were worried about the 1-2% failure rate... not to mention using the same wizards would lower those chances since they would be more familiar... and they are teleporting outside the city where their are fewer hobgoblins, so even if they were off target it's not likely they'd pop into some place that dangerous for them; especially if they are high enough to kill a few dozen hobgoblins, which may be all they need to make their escape... remember the clositer prevents them from landing within the city, and their chances of landing closer to the city than planned is about the same as their chances of landing further away (where their less likley to cause alarm)


Oh, they can be useful yes, but the covert infiltration relies on being, well, covert. Unless they are high enough level to remain invisible during the whole operation I just don't see it going too well.

Well we are dealing with a mid level party... the rangers don't have their fancy hiding abilities yet such as camouflage, which would also be ideal... Hell thahn himself is a paladin, and thus likely wearing heavier armor than rangers and likely doesn't have as much ranks in "hide" and "move silently" as they do; casters wouldn't be any worse off than he is...

the wizards and clerics can help during break ins, they can help cover an escape, they can help get in the first surprise attack on the goblins, they can block warning signals, and they can help when their infiltration turn into fights... i'd find they be invaluable during their raids

[BillyJimBoBob]

I didn't think of the possibility of one wizard teleporting all the teams in, that's a good point. I still say he would have to be 13th level though. A regular teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Teleport.htm) [snipped]He'd also have to be taking liberties with the fact that Teleport requires the caster to go, you can't just send people and remain behind.

[slayerx]

He'd also have to be taking liberties with the fact that Teleport requires the caster to go, you can't just send people and remain behind.

no the caster would be traveling back and forth... he takes a team to azure city and then returns home, rinse and repeat... depending on how many times he can cast teleport per day he might only be able to bring in a new team every 8-16 hours and thus take him a few days to bring in all the teams they need... but he could still pull it off

[Snake-Aes]

It's not teleport proper. Those are blocked. The breach is specifically about Summonings from inside the cloister effect.

[jere7my]

Smaller creatures aren't as affected by the square-cube law as much as humanoids but that drop will still turn it into roadkill.

Terminal velocity is non-fatal for squirrels and smaller animals. (I.e., for mice, terminal velocity is slower than terminal velocity.) No matter how far the mouse falls, it'll never be traveling fast enough to be killed when it hits. You could drop a mouse from the top of the Burj Dubai and it would be fine, provided it didn't land badly.

This was illustrated vividly for me when I rescued a mouse from my cat in our second-story apartment in Saratoga Springs. It ran out the door and onto the second-floor balcony, then leapt in a long parabolic arc down onto the asphalt parking lot. Vanished in the bushes three seconds later. Never slowed down.

[Snake-Aes]

Clarifying what he said...Terminal velocity is the velocity at which the air friction is as strong as the gravity pull. Because of said square-cube differences, one grows in mass much faster than one grows in area. Area of contact is a large factor in determining friction. Reducing a body's size reduces the gravitational pull faster than the air friction's pull. Animals smaller than a cat are likely to fall unharmed from great heights, since their terminal velocity is very small.

[Doug Lampert]

Wow, that must be one nimble mouse, to jump down a building like that.If you throw a mouse out of an airplane in flight, the significant dangers it faces are:
1) Freezing to death on the way down.
2) Being eaten by a hawk on the way down.
3) Landing on a road and being flattened by a car.
4) Landing in water and drowning
5) other similar stuff.

The danger it does NOT face is falling, a mouse is small enough that terminal velocity is FAR short of what it takes to kill it.

Hmm, ninja'd. Clarify more. Cube-square says terminal velocity is lower for smaller creatures, and they're ALSO able to withstand faster collisions because there's much less mass per cross-section on the impact as well as on the flight.

Squirels are at the extreme upper end of "safe at any distance", that big fluffy tail helps, but a fat or unusually big squirel CAN be killed or injured by a fall (which is the limiting factor on squirel size, there are lots of advantages to being bigger for a nut eater, and one really big disadvantage...).

But mice are much smaller than squirels.

[Doug Lampert]

Coordinate further insertions could very well mean they were the only ones capable of teleporting in like that so their job was to create land routes for other teams to sneak in unnoticed. Certainly from the available information we cannot know for sure, but it is a possibility. Another one, and the one I initially thought was that they were creating a safe place for further teleports to take place. Another thing though is that only greater teleport can teleport that accurately. Unless all the insurgents have a 13th level wizard on their team I really doubt everyone is going to get there by teleport.


He'd also have to be taking liberties with the fact that Teleport requires the caster to go, you can't just send people and remain behind.

Huh?!?

You get in, you find a safe spot you can teleport to and safely reach the resistance from, you prepare greater teleport TWICE.

Teleport out, teleport back with the next team.

Only one wizard, one team per day every day, all using teleport.

How is this hard?

I mean, we've got multiple people assuming one wizard with teleport means one team enters via teleport. Why? Have these people never PLAYED a wizard with teleportation magic?

I've had clerics with the travel domain with Teleport as their level 5 spell, Teleport as their level 6 spell, Greater Teleport as their level 7 spell, and if the game had gone on to level 8 casting guess what would have gone in the level 8 slot?

I've had a single wizard evacuate a community of a few hundred people in a couple of days by preparing every slot of level 5+ with teleport.

[Saph]

How is this hard?

It depends upon level, really. At level 9 it can be awkward to do the Teleport Shuttle Service trick, because you can usually only do it twice per day (once there and once back), can only carry three others with you, and if you get an 'off-target' result on your roll, you're stuck until tomorrow.

As you level up, teleport shuttling becomes easier and easier, and by the time you hit level 13 you can move around dozens of people in a day with a little work. So the speed at which the elves can bring in reinforcements depends where exactly in the level 9-13 range the elven spellcasters are.

[Math_Mage]

It's not teleport proper. Those are blocked. The breach is specifically about Summonings from inside the cloister effect.

They would be teleporting in to some place outside the Cloister effect, with a predetermined route for getting in from there thanks to the scouting team.

[Drolyt]

On terminal velocity: The above is more or less correct. I'd just like to point out that the terminal velocity not being enough to kill thing has been observed in animals as large as cats, who have been known to fall huge distances and survive as long as they land properly, and being cats they usually do. Terminal velocity should be even less for a mouse, so I bet they could fall from very high heights and be fine, although there might be other factors if they fall from a really high height. I'm also not clear if a mouse can reorient itself like a cat does, and even at slow speeds it could be bad if it were to say land on its head.

Edit: Actually, there have been unusual cases of humans surviving falls from airplanes if they land nice enough. Reaching terminal velocity is actually better than being not quite at terminal velocity, and if you know how to prepare for a fall (ie relax your muscles and whatnot) it is possible to survive such falls.