Base Class Challenge Chat Thread

[Lord_Gareth]

What's it sound like?

Current Challenge: The Light Beckons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8008389#post8008389)

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

A single independent judge sounds like it might be a bit biased, if you want my honest opinion. That's why ErrantX uses a community judged method for his projects. Once you learn to play to a specific judge, the contest would get far easier.

Just my 2cp.

[Lord_Gareth]

Eh, we'll see. I don't really wanna run a voting thread, but maybe I'll convene a council or something. Or Shanghai someone else into running a voting thread >.>

[Owrtho]

Yay, a base class contest. But why a light themed class? I can't help but feel had I not posted it my wisp fire guide would be perfect for this... Ah well, looks like I'll need to come up with something else.

Owrtho

[Cogwheel]

I'll submit something if I can.. inspiration willing, I suppose. And time. I'm fine with a single judge, myself. I've also resigned to losing beforehand, mind, so I don't care a great deal :smalltongue:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I've also resigned to losing beforehand, mind, so I don't care a great deal :smalltongue:

Typical Cog. You need to stop underestimating yourself, my friend! :smalltongue:

[Cogwheel]

Typical Cog. You need to stop underestimating yourself, my friend! :smalltongue:

Realism, good sir.

Plus, you're joining the competition, as far as I can tell. I'm not dismissing myself here, I'm dismissing any chance of us mortals being able to compete.

[Admiral Squish]

Hurry with class format! I am already coming up with ideas!

[Cogwheel]

Hurry with class format! I am already coming up with ideas!

...Only now? Laaaaate. :smalltongue:

[arguskos]

I might actually throw down on this. No guarantees though, I'm already working on a base class atm, and don't want to overload my work load.

[DragoonWraith]

Hmm, I'm glad this is here. The lack of one seemed odd to me. No inspiration on this for now, plus I desperately need to work on the PrC contest - KaganMonk is probably getting very annoyed at me for not coming up with anything for it...

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmmm...a suggestion for you, Gareth.

Consider putting a 1.5 or 2 month time on this one. A base class requires more work than a prestige class, and, if I wanted to build a whole new mechanic, I don't think I'd reasonably get this AND a prestige class for ErrantX done within a month-long time frame without jeopardizing the quality of one or the other.

[Zom B]

I am so all over this contest.

For formatting, I just took the PrC format from that competition and ripped out the Prestigeclass-y parts.

[arguskos]

Hmmm...a suggestion for you, Gareth.

Consider putting a 1.5 or 2 month time on this one. A base class requires more work than a prestige class, and, if I wanted to build a whole new mechanic, I don't think I'd reasonably get this AND a prestige class for ErrantX done within a month-long time frame without jeopardizing the quality of one or the other.
Totally gonna agree with this. Given a two-month timespan, I'll almost certainly have the time to come up with something, where a month isn't enough time for me. Just a thought anyhow.

[Cogwheel]

Djinn: Agreed. more time would be nice.

[lesser_minion]

This is tempting, just to see how badly I suck at writing base classes. Could the consolation prize be something other than being kneecapped?

[arguskos]

This is tempting, just to see how badly I suck at writing base classes. Could the consolation prize be something other than being kneecapped?
But, that takes the fun out of it! I mean, what's the point in living without danger? :smallamused:

[lesser_minion]

Well, there might be a couple of people from the IRC entering. Do you really want to go up against, say... Fax?

Also, were you looking at Realms of Chaos' work on the shadowcaster, by any chance (in the other thread where you mistook me for someone else)?


LG:

Is this going to go simply on which class you liked best, or is there a specific list of factors you plan to use?

[arguskos]

Well, there might be a couple of people from the IRC entering. Do you really want to go up against, say... Fax?

Also, were you looking at Realms of Chaos' work on the shadowcaster, by any chance (in the other thread where you mistook me for someone else)?
Also, eh, I don't personally mind going up against Fax. If I lose, I lose, big deal. I at least made something cool.

Also, no, it was peacenlove (I remembered later), who happened to collab with Realms on that stuff, so, uh, sorta? :smalltongue:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Up against Fax? Hell yes. I think I could take him in the PrC contest...a base class I'm less sure about, but I'd be game to try.

[lesser_minion]

I don't think he'll actually do this, although I did mention it on the IRC.

Still, I'm probably in. Maybe.

[Zom B]

I can probably be done by the current deadline. Of course, working off the concept of an old class I once wrote up in a notebook that is around here somewhere helps. I think I've decided to just rewrite it, which will probably come out better as I better understand balance now.

[Temotei]

Darn you. I've already posted my radiant monk before. :smallsigh:

Perhaps I can come up with a light-based martial class...although that would take a lot of work to find disciplines to match and to make new ones. To the Tome of Battle thread!

[Cogwheel]

Up against Fax? Hell yes. I think I could take him in the PrC contest...a base class I'm less sure about, but I'd be game to try.

This thread is officially Djinn vs. Fax. If Fax joins. The rest of us are spectators :smalltongue:

[Eurus]

Okay, I have two basic ideas, and I'd like some advice on which to pursue. The first is the Inquisitor, a sort of reverse-Beguiler. Instead of focusing on illusion and enchantment, they focus on abjuration and divination. In place of abilities like Cloaked Casting, I'm thinking to give them Mindspy-esque abilities that affect (usually debuffing) creatures that are viewed through an Inquisitor's divinations or hit by their dispels, in addition to some defensive abilities to "burn away illusions with the light of truth." I'm also considering giving them a turning ability that increases with level to be able to turn other types of creatures, like various outsiders, aberrations, vermin, and possibly eventually anything (with a much more limited uses per day, of course).

The second is the Enlightened. It would be sort of a wisdom-based divine factotum/monk thing, even using inspiration points. It's a bit more unformed in my head, but I'm considering giving it various beneficial auras and party buffs (less solo-focused than the factotum; I suppose it's technically an Enlightener), some healing, and of course lots of skills.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Okay, I have two basic ideas, and I'd like some advice on which to pursue. The first is the Inquisitor, a sort of reverse-Beguiler. Instead of focusing on illusion and enchantment, they focus on abjuration and divination. In place of abilities like Cloaked Casting, I'm thinking to give them Mindspy-esque abilities that affect (usually debuffing) creatures that are viewed through an Inquisitor's divinations or hit by their dispels, in addition to some defensive abilities to "burn away illusions with the light of truth." I'm also considering giving them a turning ability that increases with level to be able to turn other types of creatures, like various outsiders, aberrations, vermin, and possibly eventually anything (with a much more limited uses per day, of course).

The second is the Enlightened. It would be sort of a wisdom-based divine factotum/monk thing, even using inspiration points. It's a bit more unformed in my head, but I'm considering giving it various beneficial auras and party buffs (less solo-focused than the factotum; I suppose it's technically an Enlightener), some healing, and of course lots of skills.

The first seems most tied to the theme, but both are interesting concepts. I'd be curious to see you handle either concept.

Anyway, thoughts on this?

Spirit Lantern: The Spirit Lantern is a class that uses a ghostly light to trick the spirits of the departed into following it and doing its bidding. It collects Soul Points over time and by being near slain creatures, which it can expend to summon spirits to the physical realm to do its bidding.

[Temotei]

The first seems most tied to the theme, but both are interesting concepts. I'd be curious to see you handle either concept.

Anyway, thoughts on this?

Spirit Lantern: The Spirit Lantern is a class that uses a ghostly light to trick the spirits of the departed into following it and doing its bidding. It collects Soul Points over time and by being near slain creatures, which it can expend to summon spirits to the physical realm to do its bidding.

Awesome. :smallcool:

[Cogwheel]

I'm considering something based on either mirrors/reflections, or the sun. Yes, my ideas are vague. I'm tossing a lot of them around right now, mind.

[Admiral Squish]

Light, huh...

[Temotei]

I'm considering something based on either mirrors/reflections, or the sun. Yes, my ideas are vague. I'm tossing a lot of them around right now, mind.

If you get something mirror-based done within a week, I'll seriously be very happy. :smalltongue:

Part of a campaign.

[Eurus]

The first seems most tied to the theme, but both are interesting concepts. I'd be curious to see you handle either concept.

Anyway, thoughts on this?

Spirit Lantern: The Spirit Lantern is a class that uses a ghostly light to trick the spirits of the departed into following it and doing its bidding. It collects Soul Points over time and by being near slain creatures, which it can expend to summon spirits to the physical realm to do its bidding.

Neat! Sort of like a cross between Necrocarnum and summoning... I look forward to seeing it. :smallbiggrin:

[Glimbur]

My entry, if I do one, will involve lasers and incarnum. That's all I have formed so far...

[Realms of Chaos]

Base Class Contest, huh. :smallcool:

I recall being one of the winners (3rd place, see the sig) the last time that one of these things were held so this should be fun.

Surprisingly, none of my numerous half-finished ideas are light-based so I'll have to think for a bit.
*Jeapordy Music*
Eureka. After 5 long seconds of thought I have got it. I will run with the general concept of the 4e "starlock" and make it my own in both fluff and crunch, creating a fate/far-realmsish class that calls upon ancient constellations, dead suns, and mad "moons" to accomplish tasks.

And I've got a 3-day weekend to work with. :smallbiggrin:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Base Class Contest, huh. :smallcool:

I recall being one of the winners (3rd place, see the sig) the last time that one of these things were held so this should be fun.

Surprisingly, none of my numerous half-finished ideas are light-based so I'll have to think for a bit.
*Jeapordy Music*
Eureka. After 5 long seconds of thought I have got it. I will run with the general concept of the 4e "starlock" and make it my own in both fluff and crunch, creating a fate/far-realmsish class that calls upon ancient constellations, dead suns, and mad "moons" to accomplish tasks.

And I've got a 3-day weekend to work with. :smallbiggrin:

Realms is in the game. Now the big guns have to come out...

[Realms of Chaos]

Realms is in the game. Now the big guns have to come out...

No need to be that scared. My classes of late have tended to be overloaded on abilities and I fear that I must do the same in order to fully accomplish my idea this time around.
I could always make another alternate magic system to simplify things but lord know that I haven't even finnished my first far realms magic... system...
...
...unless I build this class to use xenotheurgy...
...
MUWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Eurus]

No need to be that scared. My classes of late have tended to be overloaded on abilities and I fear that I must do the same in order to fully accomplish my idea this time around.
I could always make another alternate magic system to simplify things but lord know that I haven't even finnished my first far realms magic... system...
...
...unless I build this class to use xenotheurgy...
...
MUWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Be careful, you don't want to risk scaring people off by forcing them to learn a complicated (or just unusual) system. It can be a great class, but if nobody wants to mess with it then it's doomed to obscurity... (See: Incarnum)

[Realms of Chaos]

Hmmm...

good point...

Original mechanics it is, then.

[Admiral Squish]

Perhaps some kind of solar-themed paladin/warlock hybridization? This could be fun. Like, imbues it's weapon with pure light and releases it to make a blow that much more deadly. Then 'invocations' of a holy/illuminating/truth-seeking bent?

[lesser_minion]

At the moment, I'm thinking of making something roguish that changes its abilities, and possibly role, depending on how bright it is, moving from something closer to a 'trickster' archetype at daytime towards a more martial archetype in darkness.

What the class does will be light-themed as well, although I can't promise that things like 'healing light' will be absent.

[Owrtho]

Spirit Lantern: The Spirit Lantern is a class that uses a ghostly light to trick the spirits of the departed into following it and doing its bidding.
... Why couldn't I have waited to make my Whisp Fire Guide class!

Anyways, I think I have a decent idea for a class, but I'm running into trouble in that I can't think of any particular magic or reasonably sized group of spells tied to the ethereal plane. Anyone have any suggestions for that, or will I have to try making up my own magic system (something I'm somewhat reluctant to do at the moment lacking a good idea on how to have it work)?

Owrtho

[FlamingKobold]

So I'm probably going to make some kind of a warlock/hexblade hybrid, albeit with a divine flavor rather than a fiendish one...

[Admiral Squish]

So I'm probably going to make some kind of a warlock/hexblade hybrid, albeit with a divine flavor rather than a fiendish one...

Hey! I had that idea first!

[Cogwheel]

Before anyone calls it: Light absorption. As in, absorbing light by using darkness-based moves, using that to fuel light moves that give you darkness, and so forth. Quite possibly with a reflection/mirror connection, as well. Caster-y, though probably with a d6 or d8 hit die.

Oh, and how metaphorical do we get to be with the light connection?

[Admiral Squish]

Before anyone calls it: Light absorption. As in, absorbing light by using darkness-based moves, using that to fuel light moves that give you darkness, and so forth. Quite possibly with a reflection/mirror connection, as well. Caster-y, though probably with a d6 or d8 hit die.

Oh, and how metaphorical do we get to be with the light connection?

There actually was a class like that on the forums not long ago. It had a touch attack to heal and one to harm. Similarly, it had other, more powerful moves that would cause penalties or bonuses, and a pool that would increase when you used dark moves and decrease when you used light.

[Cogwheel]

There actually was a class like that on the forums not long ago. It had a touch attack to heal and one to harm. Similarly, it had other, more powerful moves that would cause penalties or bonuses, and a pool that would increase when you used dark moves and decrease when you used light.

...I can never, ever be creative, can I? Conflabbit.

Bah, I'll go ahead with it anyway. At least I might have a fun class to lose with at the end :smalltongue:

[Eurus]

...I can never, ever be creative, can I? Conflabbit.

Bah, I'll go ahead with it anyway. At least I might have a fun class to lose with at the end :smalltongue:

That's the spirit! It's like Dwarf Fortress - dying losing to Djinn is fun!

[Realms of Chaos]

I call the name Illuminator.

I'd go with Illuminati but the reference would keep people from taking it seriously.

Also, I've edited my class concept. I'm now going for a somewhat dark light-based class (oxymorons, hooray) whose soul is literally alight with supernatura energy, illuminating both darkness and secrets. Furthermore, they can create some "soul lanterns" of sorts that let them scout out ahead a bit. Throw in a small damaging ability, buffs, and undead influence and I end up with a decent support class.

[Sereg]

I am surprised to discover that I have an idea. A class that creates balls of light that follow their creator around, give off effects similar to auras and can fire rays. Inspired partially by marshals, warlocks and chakra binds. The tough part will be balancing it, but I'll see what I can do.

[Creed]

what about an arcane archer but with light... so like a....solar archer? im all for never running out of ammo...

[FlamingKobold]

Hey! I had that idea first!

well, that's what I get for only reading the first page before posting... :smallfrown:

[arguskos]

I have a few thoughts. Perhaps a class that DESTROYS light, one that uses light as a weapon, and in so doing, creates darkness. Perhaps I'll call it the Extinguisher. :smallamused:

Actually, I quite like that. Consider it my entry.

EDIT: On another note, it'd be good if the Class Format came up, so I could start work on the Extinguisher. :smalltongue:

[Balketh]

Throwing my hat into the ring.

I have such a vague idea, I'll play it close to the chest for now.

I, too, consign myself to losing, because I've made, what, ONE base class, and it's still missing a few minor but crucial bits, so...

But, I have a vague idea. That's all I need.

See you folks on the other side.

[Sereg]

I have a few thoughts. Perhaps a class that DESTROYS light, one that uses light as a weapon, and in so doing, creates darkness. Perhaps I'll call it the Extinguisher. :smallamused:

Actually, I quite like that. Consider it my entry.

Awwww! I was thinking of giving my class a feature that allows it to absorb light in order to enhance it's other features. But that's a little similar to yours.


EDIT: On another note, it'd be good if the Class Format came up, so I could start work on the Extinguisher. :smalltongue:

Indeed. I have very little experiance with classes so I want to get mine up quickly for an extended PEACHing time.

[arguskos]

Awwww! I was thinking of giving my class a feature that allows it to absorb light in order to enhance it's other features. But that's a little similar to yours.
Sorry dude! I just saw all these classes about twisting and using light, and I said to myself "what about one that destroys light? That'd be cool!" Sorry if I stepped on your toes there Sereg. :smallfrown:


Indeed. I have very little experiance with classes so I want to get mine up quickly for an extended PEACHing time.
Indeed.

[Temotei]

I think I might still try this. I don't have much of an idea yet...but it would be fun to make another class. Of course, I'll try to distinguish it quite a bit from the radiant monk. :smallcool:

[UserShadow7989]

I'm gonna give this a try. I, like Balketh, have only made one (still incomplete) Base Class, but I love working on these and the Dancer seems to be uninteresting, as much as it saddens me.

I'm thinking of a class partially inspired by Boktai/Lunar Knights. A ranged martial character that uses Sun/Moon Light to fuel it's class abilities. You would choose whether to be a Solar Adept (relies on sunlight, gains access to better armor and shields and a bigger hitdie, acting more as a paladin) or a Lunar Adept (absorbs moonlight, gets sword proficiencies and can use class abilities with swords, more rougish in nature).

[Sereg]

Sorry dude! I just saw all these classes about twisting and using light, and I said to myself "what about one that destroys light? That'd be cool!" Sorry if I stepped on your toes there Sereg. :smallfrown:

Don't worry about it! It would have been just one feature that I hadn't even decided on wether or not i would use it. You called it so it's my loss. I'm sure that you'll make more interesting use of it anyway.

[arguskos]

Don't worry about it! It would have been just one feature that I hadn't even decided on wether or not i would use it. You called it so it's my loss. I'm sure that you'll make more interesting use of it anyway.
Eh, I have to brush up on the illumination rules... and I hate doing that. :smallsigh: Those rules are silly.

[Lord_Gareth]

Sorry about my absence folks - RL is a toothy bitch, and I hate it so very much. I'm extending the end date to April 30th, and you will have the class format up today, with my official apologies >.>

As far as how your class must be connected to light, that depends entirely on you. Literal, metaphoric, whatever. However, let it be known that the first person to make a class that has an "Only good" alignment requirement with the intention of using that as the light connection will be shot.

As for judging criteria, they are:

Balance
Flavor
Role Fulfillment
Cool Factor
Originality.

[Morth]

I call the class name of The Dawntreader!

[DaTedinator]

Now, base classes by their very nature are supposed to be more broad than PrCs, so I'm curious how much leeway we're allowed with regards to the "light" theme. Could I make a class with a sort of talent-tree setup, and have "light" be one of the trees? Could I make a melee combat class focused around outmaneuvering opponents, a "featherweight," interpreting light as opposed to heavy? Could I make a class that's just a divine casting class, but they get special abilities based on different deities, and if they happen to worship Pelor, they get light-based abilities?

[Vaynor]

Now, base classes by their very nature are supposed to be more broad than PrCs, so I'm curious how much leeway we're allowed with regards to the "light" theme. Could I make a class with a sort of talent-tree setup, and have "light" be one of the trees? Could I make a melee combat class focused around outmaneuvering opponents, a "featherweight," interpreting light as opposed to heavy? Could I make a class that's just a divine casting class, but they get special abilities based on different deities, and if they happen to worship Pelor, they get light-based abilities?

I assume any definition of the word light works, as there was no clarification given.

Anyways, I'm definitely going to participate in this. Sounds like fun.

[Owrtho]

Well, given the lack of responses, I take it there's no suggestions regarding a source for an ethereal themed magic system. In that case I might just need to try making my own. Thats bound to be a pain...

Owrtho

[Temotei]

I should make a new monster and a monster class for it. Hmm...sun? :smallconfused:

Like from Super Mario Brothers 3! :smallamused:

I'll come up with something.

[Sereg]

Sorry about my absence folks - RL is a toothy bitch, and I hate it so very much. I'm extending the end date to April 30th, and you will have the class format up today, with my official apologies >.>

As far as how your class must be connected to light, that depends entirely on you. Literal, metaphoric, whatever. However, let it be known that the first person to make a class that has an "Only good" alignment requirement with the intention of using that as the light connection will be shot.

As for judging criteria, they are:

Balance
Flavor
Role Fulfillment
Cool Factor
Originality.

Excellent. Balance-wise should we be aiming for tier three or what's typical of classes that fulfill a similar role. I've currently been aiming at tier three myself but I'd like confirmation.

[Lord_Gareth]

A balanced class should be able to make meaningful contributions to the party, both in and out of combat; a balanced class should never throw its hands up in the air and say that its useless. Monks and fighters are great examples of badly balanced classes; wizard and cleric are, obviously, the other end of the spectrum, which is also labelled Don't Go There. I will not be using the tier system in my considerations. Do keep in mind that I dislike power gaming.

[arguskos]

A balanced class should be able to make meaningful contributions to the party, both in and out of combat; a balanced class should never throw its hands up in the air and say that its useless. Monks and fighters are great examples of badly balanced classes; wizard and cleric are, obviously, the other end of the spectrum, which is also labelled Don't Go There. I will not be using the tier system in my considerations. Do keep in mind that I dislike power gaming.
Do you dislike classes that are inherently powerful though? Such as the Psychic Warrior, Binder, or similar things?

The Extinguisher will likely be pretty strong, but not because I balance to Tier 2 or whatever, just cause light is everywhere, and they turn it off for power, making them pretty strong unless nerfed into the ground (not gonna happen, btw).

[Owrtho]

But what if they end up in caves that lack a light source other than any they bring with them fighting beings that live in the dark so function best fighting in it?

Also, given the lack of suggestions, I'll try making an ethereal based magic system, though it will likely wait till this weekend. Also, all I can think of for it at the moment is having it work by causing mists from the ethereal plane to leak into the material which it then manipulates and uses for its magic (aside from when it travels to the ethereal plane or the like). As for spells or how they'll work outside that I have very little in the way of ideas, so suggestions will be welcome.
That said, it is only going to be about half the class. My idea for the class is that it will use ethereal and shadow magic, with the type it can use based on the time of day (or more specifically, an element of sunlight that is not caused by other sources of light and penetrates most materials even if the illumination itself does not thus making the limits still occur under ground). Around level 10 however I plan to add an ability that would allow them to make an area in which it seems to be the other time period allowing them to have some control over the magic type they use (or I might make them get half of it of their choice around level 7 and the other half around level 13).
As for the duel magic systems in a base class, I'm planning to use it for the Sun Behind Night setting I'm working on, where the two planes don't exist simultaneously but swap which exists depending on if it is night or day, and as a result casters are limited by that.
If this isn't tied to light enough please let me know so I can change plans before I loose too much time for the contest (though I'll still try to complete the class later).

Also, what would be a good (minimum) number of spells to make for a magic system so that it doesn't take too long.

Owrtho

[arguskos]

But what if they end up in caves that lack a light source other than any they bring with them fighting beings that live in the dark so function best fighting in it?
Any good Extinguisher brings ways to make light, so he can snuff it for power. They power their essences by snuffing out light, so in a pinch, they will make their own light to snuff for strength.

If they CAN'T for some reason... well, they're probably shafted. I'm thinking 3/4 BAB and decent proficiencies, so they could in theory just stand a fight. Not super-likely an Extinguisher will want to be in that position though.

[Owrtho]

I kinda feel that other extinguishers would be their worst enemies. Well, that and classes that just make darkness that overrides any light the extinguisher could make (seeing as they would most likely tend to have natural light due to their class features focusing on destroying it, thus meaning magical darkness would usually at least suppress it for the duration if not put it out completely). Then again, thats what partners are for, or lacking that, a good exit strategy. Come to think of it, if I finish my part of the Mono e Mono PRC contest, it would be a rather good partner for an extinguisher (or possible route to try going for with classes) as it becomes stronger in darkness.

Owrtho

[arguskos]

I kinda feel that other extinguishers would be their worst enemies. Well, that and classes that just make darkness that overrides any light the extinguisher could make (seeing as they would most likely tend to have natural light due to their class features focusing on destroying it, thus meaning magical darkness would usually at least suppress it for the duration if not put it out completely). Then again, thats what partners are for, or lacking that, a good exit strategy. Come to think of it, if I finish my part of the Mono e Mono PRC contest, it would be a rather good partner for an extinguisher (or possible route to try going for with classes) as it becomes stronger in darkness.

Owrtho
Well, the current plan to use the little known illumination rules to my benefit. See, you can lower illumination from bright (daylight levels) to shadowy to dark (there's a few gradients, I think). The basic mechanic of the Extinguisher is that each time he reduces the illumination levels (and he'll have a class feature that does just that) he gains points he can spend on... stuff. The inspiration here is the Factotum, with it's inspiration points, only the Extinguisher has to work for his, but they're potentially more powerful, and he can get them all the time.

The other option I was considering was that he could gain abilities as it gets darker around him. Similar to the Shade template from Races of Faerun, how their powers only work in darkness? As it gets darker and darker around the Extinguisher, he gets stronger and stronger. However, this means in daylight he's shafted, but underground he's a king.

Not sure which one I'm going with yet.

[Owrtho]

Given your idea of his power source, I suggest the first. Otherwise it just seems that light suppresses his power. It also makes no sense that a person who utilizes light as energy is strongest in an area where there is no light (naturally at least. Their using of the light would make places dark, but they shouldn't start off that way).

Owrtho

[arguskos]

Given your idea of his power source, I suggest the first. Otherwise it just seems that light suppresses his power. It also makes no sense that a person who utilizes light as energy is strongest in an area where there is no light (naturally at least. Their using of the light would make places dark, but they shouldn't start off that way).

Owrtho
Well, the flavor on the second is that the Extinguisher is actually a gateway to the Plane of Shadow, and that light suppresses the portals effects. In darkness, the gateway infuses him with supernatural speed, strength, and toughness. It's "light" themed in that it is antithetical to the very CONCEPT of light. Extinguishers (under the second option) would be driven to destroy all light, everywhere, so they can rule supreme in the dark.

Likely, the former option is what I'll run with, but the latter was too interesting sounding to pass up totally. I'll probably include it somehow in the final Extinguisher, but the core mechanic will be the former, almost for sure.

Also, um, thanks for discussing this with me. I find I work better and faster if I discuss things with someone.

[Admiral Squish]

So far my idea seems more like a patchwork of class abilities and concepts into some frankenstein-esque monster than a unique development.

It starts with a hexblade as a base. Then we put in a 'sunlight smite' which is kinda like an eldritch blast, but it's channeled through a melee attack in the manner of a smite, albeit a smite with unlimited uses/day. Then replace the familiar with a mount, and lose the spells for a number of light-themed invocations. Replace the hexblade abilities with more light-fitting abilities. Not sure exactly what, though.

[Zom B]

My class will be the Torchbearer. I started working on it on lunch breaks at work, then got laid off on March 5 and could not get anything off the hard drive before going. That'll teach me to start using Google docs.

[Sereg]

Er...Lord Gareth...are you still there? It's been about four days since you said that you'd post the class format.

[lesser_minion]

I think I'm going to have to pull out of this for personal reasons.

[Creed]

can we have the format now?...or do you want us to just work off of a generic format from 3.5 or 4E

[Lord_Gareth]

>.> Sorry for flaking on the format. I really, truly, deeply am. Incoming in the next ten minutes, or you can hit me with a wet lobster.

[Lord_Gareth]

It has been done!

[Vaynor]

Excellent. I'm going to start on this immediately. :smallsmile:

[Temotei]

I've got an idea. If anyone has thought of this already, tell me.

I want to make an evil only class based on scalding and blinding light. It'll be like a migraine-causing nightmare! :smallbiggrin:

[arguskos]

Yaaaay! The format is up! I should get to work on the Extinguisher for serious.

[Cogwheel]

So. Bit of help with the Dawntreader, even though it thoroughly beats anything I could make already.

First, Tengoku no Kobushi. Figured I'd point out, being a native Japanese speaker, that Tengoku refers to heaven in the afterlife/home of the gods sense. So if you want heaven in the sky sense of the word, just go with Ten.

Secondly, Tatchi is a katakana word. Which is essentially bastardized English and occasionally some other languages (Portuguese and Dutch comes to mind). Unfortunately, there's no real word to replace it, so you may want to use Yubi instead, which would make it Finger of Heaven. Just a thought.

Third, Mastery of the Shooting Star, I think, has the potential to be ludicrously overpowered. Maybe it's just me, but getting three attacks in place of a trip and then fllowing up with the rest of your attacks seems excessive.

Lastly, the 9th level maneuver. Again, katakana all over the place, and some general incomprehensibility. Basically, go with Ryuusei (or one u with a line over it, which I can't write)-hakaikyoku. Which would mean exactly what you wrote there, only in actual Japanese.


Again, I'm just trying to help, and those are just nitpicks. The class is great :smallbiggrin:

[Cogwheel]

I've got an idea. If anyone has thought of this already, tell me.

I want to make an evil only class based on scalding and blinding light. It'll be like a migraine-causing nightmare! :smallbiggrin:

Just saw this post. I have, sort of. Rather, my class uses both light and shadow. Neither is strictly good or evil, mind you. Shadow can conceal, confuse, heal and shield, while light can dispel illusions, show you the truth... or scorch and burn you. So both are two-sided coins. Consider the option open - I just figured I better mention this.

[Temotei]

Just saw this post. I have, sort of. Rather, my class uses both light and shadow. Neither is strictly good or evil, mind you. Shadow can conceal, confuse, heal and shield, while light can dispel illusions, show you the truth... or scorch and burn you. So both are two-sided coins. Consider the option open - I just figured I better mention this.

Hm. Right then. :smallsmile:

[Eurus]

Hmm, you can't post unfinished classes, right?

[arguskos]

Hmm, you can't post unfinished classes, right?
Uh, you can, but if it's unfinished by deadline, it's disqualified. At least, that's my assumption, since every other contest hereabouts works the same way.

[Temotei]

Note to Creed: Your formatting is off...try making a table.

[arguskos]

Note to Creed: Your formatting is off...try making a table.
Note to Temotei221: Your avatar is silly looking. Just sayin'. :smalltongue: I just wanted to use the Note to <person> tag for giggles.

[Temotei]

Note to Temotei221: Your avatar is silly looking. Just sayin'. :smalltongue: I just wanted to use the Note to <person> tag for giggles.

:smallamused: That's okay! It's a Final Fantasy 2d6 character. He's allowed to look silly.

[arguskos]

:smallamused: That's okay! It's a Final Fantasy 2d6 character. He's allowed to look silly.
That... explains much, actually. :smalltongue:

Also, work on the Extinguisher goes... slowly. I'll get it done (eventually), but I'm being all slow and stuff. Also, I don't want to go memorize and learn the illumination rules, cause I remember them being stupid. :smallsigh:

[Temotei]

That... explains much, actually. :smalltongue:

Also, work on the Extinguisher goes... slowly. I'll get it done (eventually), but I'm being all slow and stuff. Also, I don't want to go memorize and learn the illumination rules, cause I remember them being stupid. :smallsigh:

Make new ones. :smallcool:

[Eurus]

Uh, you can, but if it's unfinished by deadline, it's disqualified. At least, that's my assumption, since every other contest hereabouts works the same way.

Oh, okay. Not sure why I thought you couldn't, then. I'll probably post what I have so far of mine up soon, then.

[arguskos]

Make new ones. :smallcool:
But... they already exist. I build off of what has come before, not force folks to learn a whole new system if need doesn't exist.

Also, thanks to the Rules Compendium being awesome, the illumination rules are significantly easier now than I recall them being. :smallamused:

[Sereg]

Alright, for now, I've pretty much just done the table. I'll come back to do the rest later and see if I can help with the other classes that have gone up. I seriously suck with names, so if people can think of better names for my class and it's features, I'd be glad to hear them.

[Owrtho]

Well, I put up a basic version of the twilight caster. Unfortunately while the class is pretty much done, I've had to make a new magic system, which means I now need to make around 30 spells for it (I'll likely make 32 spells just to make it have 4 choices per spell level as they only gain access to level 8).
As for that, I'm somewhat certain that it will need some balancing. Anyways, feedback is welcome, as are any mist form suggestions (also, most of he low level ones will be able to scale at the cost of more mist squares, so as not to become obsolete without making them overpowered. In most cases they will require that additional squares be consumed to increase the caster level above the default, and will not be able to have more than your caster level extra consumed, though there may be some exceptions).

Owrtho

[IcarusWings]

I've submitted my entry which is by no means finished (I still need to stat out the other 11 katas, fill in the dead levels and come up with a capstone), because I have had little time recently (read: I bought Final Fantasy XIII).

The link to light is tenuous at best, as it was originally meant for the zodiac but I reflavoured it with the constellations for this competition.

It will likely be horribly unbalanced for 2 reasons...

1. This is my second ever homebrew.
2. I've never actually played due to there being no other players in my area, although I have read most rulebooks.

So there's my entry

Merlin

[peacenlove]

Mysteries and Paths: Again, details will come later (see tome of magic if your impatient). Differences are that you don't gain new mysteries every level. More on that at level 2. You still start with 1 mystery. Unlike a shadowcaster, you may advance to learning innate mysteries if you have 1 third level mystery (rather than 2). Similarly, you may advance to learning master mysteries if as long as you know 1 sixth level mystery (rather than 2). You may only use mysteries during the day.

You can learn master mysteries without having selected any initiate mystery much less 2 6th level ones. The same rule applies to Initiate mysteries regarding apprentice mysteries known. I can find the page reference if requested.

[Owrtho]

You can learn master mysteries without having selected any initiate mystery much less 2 6th level ones. The same rule applies to Initiate mysteries regarding apprentice mysteries known. I can find the page reference if requested.

Ah, your right. I forgot that part about it and remembered that you need two mysteries of the previous level. Thanks for pointing that out. It will help for the purpose of easier wording.
Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the ethereal magic so far? Or do I need to post some mist forms before much can be said?

Edit: Also, I added two level 1 mist forms. Names and balance may need some work.

Owrtho

[IcarusWings]

Ethereal magic seems like a neat idea to me, but no idea how it would play mechanically.

[Owrtho]

To be honest, I'm not quite sure how it would balance either. In general, you can cast more spells than most other casters per day, but for each one you use, the area that you can cast them in gets smaller (hopefully causing some balance). The issue then becomes how much mist they should have, and how strong the spells should be for a given amount of mist.

Edit: Added a level 2 mist form. Its sorta like colour spray, but different. Also another level 1 mist form.
And suggestions and/or ideas for mist forms would be greatly appreciated (as are better names). As it is I can't think of too many ethereal themed abilities (and most of the ones I can think of are of debatable use/power, like reducing all elemental damage in the mist, or possibly something allowing mist forms to temporarily act as a specific element for the purposes of bypassing DR).

Owrtho

[arguskos]

Look for the Extinguisher tonight, for certain (assuming I don't burn out on the capstones, which I might to be honest, I'm running short on ideas). EDIT: It's up! Probably sorta OP at the moment, but I was kinda flailing around for ideas. It's got some choppy grammar too, but hey, it's UP, right? Right. :smallcool: Thoughts? (if anyone has any, of course)

@Owrtho (you have a hard username to type, you know that?): I've been watching your mist forms, but I'm not sure I have too many suggestions. I'm just not really sure how to judge them. I guess I'll call them "uh, pretty cool?" cause I'm just not sure what to balance them against. Sorry for being really unhelpful, but I wanted you to know I wasn't ignoring your efforts or anything. :smallredface:

[Owrtho]

Light Absorption (Su): At 2nd level, the Extinguisher learns the primary source of his power. He begins to emanate a field of energy (radius 5 ft/class level) that absorbs ambient light, and draws it into the Extinguisher. This has a set of effects. First, it sets the illumination level in the area of the field to shadowy illumination at best. Second, the Extinguisher may take a standard action to focus the field, reducing the illumination level in the area of the field to total darkness, this darkness lasts for class level rounds. Each time the Extinguisher does this, he gains a shadow disc. He may have up to 1 shadow disc per class level he has at any given time. A shadow disc is a physical manifestation of the shadow energy that the Extinguisher channels, and automatically appears on his person when he reduces the light levels to darkness.

I don't think the 'he has' should be there. Also should mention what the insight bonus he gains is. Otherwise the class looks fine (mind I'm not the best at balance and am not too familiar with some of the spells referenced).
The thing that bothers me the most though is the shadow disks. I mean, he sucks in light, and gains an object made of... shadow? Seems light he should get disks made of light from that. Also seems that given he uses light for power some of his abilities should be light damage rather than dark damage (though the dark abilities could still work for the most part, but it seems it would be more from him drawing in the light than from him manipulating darkness).
The thing is that based on how he sucks in light to use as power, it seems the class would be more focused on using light abilities in the dark, sorta like "The deeper the darkness, the brighter the light shines" kinda thing. Then again, it is your class, but if you keep them being linked to darkness, I'd suggest possibly changing how they gain power (at least fluff wise). Perhaps rather than absorbing light they actually convert it to darkness, and the disk is the excess energy.

Hope it doesn't seem like I'm being too harsh.

Anyways, glad to hear you like the ethereal magic. And if you have so many ideas, it would help if you let me in on a few (if not by posting them here then perhaps by PMing them to me). Also, I know what you mean about the balancing. It is rather odd compared to most magic systems already out there.

Also, I don't find my user name that hard to type...

Owrtho

[arguskos]

I don't think the 'he has' should be there. Also should mention what the insight bonus he gains is.
Insight is a bonus type. He gains insight bonuses on attacks/damage or on skill checks when he snaps a disc.


The thing that bothers me the most though is the shadow disks. I mean, he sucks in light, and gains an object made of... shadow? Seems light he should get disks made of light from that. Also seems that given he uses light for power some of his abilities should be light damage rather than dark damage (though the dark abilities could still work for the most part, but it seems it would be more from him drawing in the light than from him manipulating darkness).
The thing is that based on how he sucks in light to use as power, it seems the class would be more focused on using light abilities in the dark, sorta like "The deeper the darkness, the brighter the light shines" kinda thing. Then again, it is your class, but if you keep them being linked to darkness, I'd suggest possibly changing how they gain power (at least fluff wise). Perhaps rather than absorbing light they actually convert it to darkness, and the disk is the excess energy.
The idea is that he draws light into himself, and transmutes that into a disc of darkness, which he then uses to facilitate his abilities to do it again. Slowly but surely, he is building strength to learn the Brilliant Annihilation effect. It's a changing of light into darkness sorta thing. I guess I wasn't clear enough about that, I might change the fluff to make that a little clearer.

Also, I do not want him to be a "light in the darkness" class, since I envisioned the Extinguisher as being sorta evil-bent. It's hard to be a good character when you destroy light.

EDIT: I changed the shadow disc's explanation to be clearer that it is a physical manifestation of the Extinguisher's natural skill to turn light into darkness. Does that clear it up somewhat, Owrtho?


Hope it doesn't seem like I'm being too harsh.
Not at all, glad to have your commentary.


Anyways, glad to hear you like the ethereal magic. And if you have so many ideas, it would help if you let me in on a few (if not by posting them here then perhaps by PMing them to me). Also, I know what you mean about the balancing. It is rather odd compared to most magic systems already out there.
I don't have many ideas at all, I'm afraid. I really was flailing around for stuff for the Extinguisher, much less a more ambitious project like ethereal magic. :smallfrown:


Also, I don't find my user name that hard to type...

Owrtho
Course you don't! You type it all the time. :smalltongue: Just saying that I keep wanting to spell it Orthwo, instead of Owrtho. On that note, does it mean anything?

[Owrtho]

Insight is a bonus type. He gains insight bonuses on attacks/damage or on skill checks when he snaps a disc.

Ah, I see. The wording though is a little odd. Makes it sound like the skill bonus is different from the attack bonus.


The idea is that he draws light into himself, and transmutes that into a disc of darkness, which he then uses to facilitate his abilities to do it again. Slowly but surely, he is building strength to learn the Brilliant Annihilation effect. It's a changing of light into darkness sorta thing. I guess I wasn't clear enough about that, I might change the fluff to make that a little clearer.

Also, I do not want him to be a "light in the darkness" class, since I envisioned the Extinguisher as being sorta evil-bent. It's hard to be a good character when you destroy light.

EDIT: I changed the shadow disc's explanation to be clearer that it is a physical manifestation of the Extinguisher's natural skill to turn light into darkness. Does that clear it up somewhat, Owrtho?

I see. Also, it isn't all that hard to be good when destroying light. I find it rather annoying when light is considered to be tied to good. Light can just as easily be evil, and darkness can be good.



I don't have many ideas at all, I'm afraid. I really was flailing around for stuff for the Extinguisher, much less a more ambitious project like ethereal magic. :smallfrown:

Ah, I misread you comment. I missed the not. Well, don't feel like you need to come up with ideas. But any that just come to you are welcome.


Course you don't! You type it all the time. :smalltongue: Just saying that I keep wanting to spell it Orthwo, instead of Owrtho. On that note, does it mean anything?

I think I've seen people have that problem before. As for meaning, it doesn't have any in particular. It was actually an incantation in a (somewhat strange looking back on it) dream. Happened to remember it and decided to use it.

Owrtho

[Temotei]

Light Negation (Su): At 10th level, the Extinguisher learns the secret of negation. When he uses his Light Absorption to lower the light levels to darkness and thus creates a shadow disc, he may create a negation disc instead. A negation disc has only one purpose: to violently nullify light when broken. When a negation disc is broken, it lowers the illumination level in a 60 ft radius around itself to total darkness. For each level of illumination dropped (bright to shadowy, shadowy to dark), the negation disc deals everything in the area 1d6/class level of the Extinguisher that made the disc damage. Affected creatures get a Fortitude save (DC 15+Wisdom modifier of the Extinguisher that made the disc) for half damage. An Extinguisher may only have one negation disc at any time, and may only use Light Negation to create one negation disc every 24 hours.

The extinguisher takes damage from their own attack? That bold phrase should probably be reworded, as well..."For each level of illumination dropped (bright to shadowy, shadowy to dark), the negation disc deals 1d6/class levels damage to everything in the area.

I'll get to reading past that. So far, it doesn't seem overpowered to me. I haven't looked at the spell replications though.



[b]Mind of Shadow[b] (Ex):

Definitely make that code right.


Soul of Shadow (Ex): At 18th level, the Extinguisher becomes a living shadow, a wisp in the darkness, a terrible thought. He gains the Dark Template (Tome of Magic, page 158).

You should probably mention that the level adjustment doesn't come with it.

Enervating darkness is really powerful.

Standard action #1: Snuff out light and gain disc.
Standard action #2: Enervating darkness.
Standard action #3: See #1.
Standard action #4: See #2.

It's probably not overpowered though. The at-will thing is kind of setting off an alarm in my head, but considering most combats will end after 3 - 7 rounds, being able to pump out a spell giving 1 negative level per round with a save is probably okay, even if it is against everything in 20 feet of darkness.

One thing I noticed--darkness is used a lot. Blind Fight could come in handy. :smallamused:

I love brilliant annihilation, by the way. It's...brilliant. :smallcool:

OoPEACH: Is it Firefox making those squiggly red lines bigger?

[d13]

I guess I'll be popping my head in for my first contest ever :smalltongue:

[arguskos]

Ah, I see. The wording though is a little odd. Makes it sound like the skill bonus is different from the attack bonus.
Ah, I see. Well, good to get that clarified.


I see. Also, it isn't all that hard to be good when destroying light. I find it rather annoying when light is considered to be tied to good. Light can just as easily be evil, and darkness can be good.
It's common knowledge, and besides, BLOWING UP THE SUN is typically a Bad Thing(tm).


Ah, I misread you comment. I missed the not. Well, don't feel like you need to come up with ideas. But any that just come to you are welcome.
If I do, I'll let you know. No guarantees.


I think I've seen people have that problem before. As for meaning, it doesn't have any in particular. It was actually an incantation in a (somewhat strange looking back on it) dream. Happened to remember it and decided to use it.

Owrtho
Nice, good stuff.


The extinguisher takes damage from their own attack? That bold phrase should probably be reworded, as well..."For each level of illumination dropped (bright to shadowy, shadowy to dark), the negation disc deals 1d6/class levels damage to everything in the area.
Well, I was thinking that it'd be a balancing factor. You'll notice they have Evasion and a good Ref save. That wasn't on accident.


Definitely make that code right.
What is this I mean I don't even omg. I'll fix it.


You should probably mention that the level adjustment doesn't come with it.
Faaaaaacepalm. I'll do that too.


Enervating darkness is really powerful.

Standard action #1: Snuff out light and gain disc.
Standard action #2: Enervating darkness.
Standard action #3: See #1.
Standard action #4: See #2.

It's probably not overpowered though. The at-will thing is kind of setting off an alarm in my head, but considering most combats will end after 3 - 7 rounds, being able to pump out a spell giving 1 negative level per round with a save is probably okay, even if it is against everything in 20 feet of darkness.
Eh, it's level 11. It's not like the casters are winning D&D or anything. :smallamused:


One thing I noticed--darkness is used a lot. Blind Fight could come in handy. :smallamused:
Considering the random Bonus Feat used to be Mindsight... until I realized that was stupid, and couldn't think of anything else to give them, it might become Blind-Fight.


I love brilliant annihilation, by the way. It's...brilliant. :smallcool:
Thanks. I tried pretty hard to figure out something worth that name (I came up with the name right after I came up with the name "Extinguisher").


OoPEACH: Is it Firefox making those squiggly red lines bigger?
I have no idea what you're talking about...? :smallconfused:

[Temotei]

I have no idea what you're talking about...? :smallconfused:

Type your username. In fact, typing username makes the squiggly too. :smallsigh:

I think Firefox's recent update made the lines bigger. Maybe it's just my eyesight getting better again, though. :smallsigh:

[arguskos]

Type your username. In fact, typing username makes the squiggly too. :smallsigh:

I think Firefox's recent update made the lines bigger. Maybe it's just my eyesight getting better again, though. :smallsigh:
I don't use Firefox. :smalltongue:

[Owrtho]

For those that care, I added another Mist Form. I hope I can get enough of these done and balanced before the deadline (seeing as I seem to be doing around 1 to 2 a day, and balance is questionable at best). Also, better names would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also thinking of adding some dark vision progression (that would only function during the day), and an ethereal vision ability (lets you see the ethereal plane overlaid on the material, and only functions at night). Any thoughts on it?

Owrtho

[arguskos]

For those that care, I added another Mist Form. I hope I can get enough of these done and balanced before the deadline (seeing as I seem to be doing around 1 to 2 a day, and balance is questionable at best). Also, better names would be greatly appreciated.
I'll keep watching 'em, and see what (if anything) I can say.


I'm also thinking of adding some dark vision progression (that would only function during the day), and an ethereal vision ability (lets you see the ethereal plane overlaid on the material, and only functions at night). Any thoughts on it?

Owrtho
Honestly, I like it from a flavor perspective, but I'm not sure seeing the Ethereal Plane is actually useful in any way at all.

[Owrtho]

Honestly, I like it from a flavor perspective, but I'm not sure seeing the Ethereal Plane is actually useful in any way at all.

Well, as the ethereal plane mostly looks like the material plane, it would let you see the terrain regardless of lighting. Would also let you see ghosts or people trying to hide in the ethereal plane. Also would be handy for when you gain some later mist forms that let you force people into the ethereal plane for the purpose of then targeting them with things that can effect both planes (like force effects, or some later mist forms I plan to do).

Owrtho

[arguskos]

Well, as the ethereal plane mostly looks like the material plane, it would let you see the terrain regardless of lighting. Would also let you see ghosts or people trying to hide in the ethereal plane. Also would be handy for when you gain some later mist forms that let you force people into the ethereal plane for the purpose of then targeting them with things that can effect both planes (like force effects, or some later mist forms I plan to do).

Owrtho
Ok, the one I'll agree with is the last one. I can dig forcing people into the ethereal plane and/or using force effects on them. Go for it.

[Owrtho]

Added a preliminary version of the darkvision and ether sight (used umbral sight from the shadowcaster for the darkvision. Its grants darkvision as a supernatural ability instead of extrodinary). Also, I thought I'd mention you have a typo on your darkvision description. The first distance should be 30 feet I think.

Owrtho

[arguskos]

Added a preliminary version of the darkvision and ether sight (used umbral sight from the shadowcaster for the darkvision. Its grants darkvision as a supernatural ability instead of extrodinary). Also, I thought I'd mention you have a typo on your darkvision description. The first distance should be 30 feet I think.

Owrtho
...it is..? Did I jack it up? *goes off to check*

Oh dammit, I did. Fixed it. Thanks for the catch. Man, I'm just full of typos today. :smallsigh:

[Owrtho]

Random extra pair of mist forms. You could now play up to level 9 taking only the highest level of mist form available (though I may decide later to change their levels depending on feedback for balance). Let me know how opinions run. Also, I somewhat wonder if I should perhaps split up ectoplasm into two mist forms (but then again the effects are somewhat similar, and most things that make ectoplasm don't).
Help with wording and/or formating is also appreciated.

Owrtho

[Lord_Gareth]

I dig what I'm seeing so far, folks; let the work (and PEACHing) continue!

[Xzoltar]

Was going to do a Warlock-Incarnum Knight style character, but to keep BaB to Full im switching back to my previous idea of ToB-Incarnum Holy Knight.

I don't have time to do 5-6 new disciplines, so im gonna put only the level, name, type, effect like this : (only a example not yet done)

5th level
- Consecration [Boost] : You channel Celestial Energy around you in a 15ft Diameter that cause Holy damage equal to your class level for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma (minimum 1). You cannot have more than 1 consecration effect active at a time.

[Owrtho]

Wow, three new submissions today. Seems this might get a good number of people. Haven't looked too much into any of them though.

Also, I take it the solar adept could have some trouble at night (or day is lunar), or during an eclipse of their power source. Seems a lunar eclipse could be especially bad for a lunar adept as they tend to last 2 to 3 nights (and happen regularly, meaning they have a somewhat large period of weakness if anyone wants to take them out).

Owrtho

[UserShadow7989]

Wow, there's a lot of stiff competition. I hope I can become as good as you guys someday. I really dig what I see so far, but I don't have anything that I can add to this conversation. Flavor-wise they're beautifully done, and I'm too green to comment on crunch.

[DaTedinator]

Goodness, yes, plenty of entrants. I know sometimes it can get time-consuming to read entrants for PrC contests, but this? I'd been having trouble thinking of something anyway, but now I might not enter just because then I'd feel obligated to vote, and then I'd feel obligated to actually read them all... :smalltongue:

[arguskos]

Goodness, yes, plenty of entrants. I know sometimes it can get time-consuming to read entrants for PrC contests, but this? I'd been having trouble thinking of something anyway, but now I might not enter just because then I'd feel obligated to vote, and then I'd feel obligated to actually read them all... :smalltongue:
Uh... no one votes. Gareth just picks his favorite and they win.

[Vaynor]

Uh... no one votes. Gareth just picks his favorite and they win.

I really think we should do votes though. A single vote is a bit one-sided (maybe at least a panel of judges?).

Also, I think I have a pretty good idea for a class. We'll see how it pans out.

[arguskos]

I really think we should do votes though. A single vote is a bit one-sided (maybe at least a panel of judges?).

Also, I think I have a pretty good idea for a class. We'll see how it pans out.
Not disagreeing, but Gareth was pretty clear he wasn't taking votes. If he changes his mind, I'm first to hop on that bandwagon, but as it currently stands, it's his decision. :smallsigh:

[Fortuna]

Why? Why?

I've been vaguely thinking about an idea since this competition started, and finally get around to starting work. I also start reading the chat while doing so. What do I find? Temotei claimed it on page 2 3.

I'm half finished already!

[arguskos]

Why? Why?

I've been vaguely thinking about an idea since this competition started, and finally get around to starting work. I also start reading the chat while doing so. What do I find? Temotei claimed it on page 2 3.

I'm half finished already!
Post it anyways. We'd love to see it, no matter if it's been called or not. :smallamused:

[Zexion]

If it's your work, then it's eligible. Enter it anyway.

[DaTedinator]

Uh... no one votes. Gareth just picks his favorite and they win.

Oh, right. Duh. I keep thinking of this and the PrC contest as the same things.

[Fortuna]

And my entry is up, although it needs alot of work. Still, people can EACH it overnight (hopefully).

[Lord_Gareth]

I've been toying with the idea of a panel of judges, but the problem with that approach is finding out where I'm going to dig up such a group of people. Part of the reason that I'm reluctant to do voting is that I've noticed a tendency for "brand-naming", leading to the best creation not necessarily being the one that wins - sometimes even by the admission of the confused winner.

[arguskos]

I've been toying with the idea of a panel of judges, but the problem with that approach is finding out where I'm going to dig up such a group of people. Part of the reason that I'm reluctant to do voting is that I've noticed a tendency for "brand-naming", leading to the best creation not necessarily being the one that wins - sometimes even by the admission of the confused winner.
I'd probably suggest getting the major brewers that aren't a part of this already to do it, but they're likely busy. Names I was thinking of: Zeta, afro, Demented, Vorpal Tribble, Krimm.

Public voting could be alright, but yeah, I see your concern about the brand-naming stuff.

[Lord_Gareth]

May I ask that large, page-stretching images be put in spoilers, please?

[arguskos]

May I ask that large, page-stretching images be put in spoilers, please?
I can spoiler mine, if it's an issue (didn't think it was though). I'll go do that.

[Cogwheel]

Posted, finally. So far, though I've yet to read all of them, I think I like the Extinguisher best.

I'm not going for a "darkness is good" or "light is evil" theme here, by the way. Either can do many things, and the Edgewalker basically focuses the aspects that are most convenient for them. As I see it, light and darkness are elemental forces - you can't apply morality to them any more than you can to, say, a mountain or a river. They aren't evil or good, they just are.

Right. Soapbox clarification delivered, I'll just wait for the incoming critique, than. I'm sure the class is just about made of problems as it stands.

[Zom B]

I can spoiler mine, if it's an issue (didn't think it was though). I'll go do that.

Pretty sure he means Xzoltar's. I was just coming over here to suggest resizing.

[Xzoltar]

Image put in spoiler, I have added 2 soulmeld and 2 abilities description. Some tweaking are still to be done and most other abilities are finished and jsut not to be rewritten with proper english.

Im trying to finish all abilities first and then will go check again and rewrite most of them to a proper english.

[Zom B]

Class abilities for the Torchbearer are still being put in and adjusted on their level, but most of the fluff is done. Still a WIP but thoughts on it are welcome.

[Cogwheel]

Made a few changes to the Edgewalker. Flavor, mostly. You can turn All-Seeing Eyes off, a couple abilities change your appearance, and you can colour your light/shadows as you see fit.

[Realms of Chaos]

Well... I finally got my monstrosity posted. :smallyuk:

My class ended up as a tier 4 support class that has a bunch of (hopefully) interesting abilities but no real power to speak of. At the very least, the class is pretty simple to follow and easy to use. I'd have fun using one but that's just me. :smalltongue:

Oh well.

[Temotei]

Well... I finally got my monstrosity posted. :smallyuk:

My class ended up as a tier 4 support class that has a bunch of (hopefully) interesting abilities but no real power to speak of. At the very least, the class is pretty simple to follow and easy to use.

Well, that's that.


The most obvious change to make would be the removal of Truth’s Beacon.

Where's that feature?

[Realms of Chaos]

Despite sounding like a class feature (:smalltongue:), Truth's beacon is the organization that trains almost all Illuminators.

In short, it's kind of like the house of mimic with Chameleons from Races of Destiny and is just as easy to skip.

[Temotei]

Despite sounding like a class feature (:smalltongue:), Truth's beacon is the organization that trains almost all Illuminators.

In short, it's kind of like the house of mimic with Chameleons from Races of Destiny and is just as easy to skip.

Ah. :smallamused:

I haven't looked through the class yet, nor have I looked through the fluff. I just looked at the table and noticed adaptation, so I read it. :smallbiggrin:

[arguskos]

Hey, Realms? I like the Illuminator, but I am wondering why you have the Synergy of Souls ability damage the user? It's has conditions to use it, it's not very good, it gives a save, AND it damages the user?! That screams "Ignore me! Ignore me!!" You could happily cut the damage dealt to the user (just exclude them from the effect) and nothing really changes, except the ability got good enough to use. :smallwink:

[Realms of Chaos]

interesting point. :smalltongue:

I took out the self-damaging part of synergy of souls. You still can't heal yourself but you can heal/harm a whole bunch of people from amazing distances at the same time with a single action... at will... oh... right.

Actually,I think that I should put the damage part back in (only half damage), if only to put some sort of artificial limit back on the healing.

Edit: you now take 1 point of nonlethal damage/2 class levels whenever you use it. Hopefully not too bad.

[Xzoltar]

The Lightbringer is mostly done beside the ToB discipline strikes and stances. Its certainly stronger than most Melee (even more agaisnt Evil and Undeads), it also help boost thr group with some of their powers. They dont shine in games where they need to hide and seek even if they can shut down their Aura of Light that shut down most of their powers.

After Discipline is done, back to proofreadin, maybe some playtesting if time permit.

[Zom B]

Need to fill in some more stuff for lvls 10+ and more spells but the Torchbearer is probably about 86% done. Again, thoughts welcome.

[arguskos]

Edit: you now take 1 point of nonlethal damage/2 class levels whenever you use it. Hopefully not too bad.
Better. I still consider the fact that you have to use actions to set it up to begin with and the weak dice pool to be reasonable limitations, but if you want to make them suffer damage, this is significantly better and more attractive.

[Dirt_Kami]

Ok, sign me up for the kneecapping

[Owrtho]

I've added some more mist forms. Still not quite sure on the balance. Suggestions are also still welcome (even if just for better names, as I feel the ones currently used could use some work).

Owrtho

[Zom B]

Ok, sign me up for the kneecapping


Role: Acts as a torchbearer that can still use two-handed weapons.

*cough* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8108796&postcount=14)

[Vauron]

Dirt Kami, does a class feature that permanently gets rid of the character really seem like a good idea for a capstone? You also don't really get much for the character's sacrifice, either. Frankly, I'm having a hard time thinking of a situation where using it would be a good idea.

[Realms of Chaos]

Better. I still consider the fact that you have to use actions to set it up to begin with and the weak dice pool to be reasonable limitations, but if you want to make them suffer damage, this is significantly better and more attractive.

Getting a bunch of far away enemies/allies in the light of your anima lanterns, that takes actions.

Don't forget, however, that you can simply target foes within your spiritual radiance, requiring that they only be close to you (at level 20, you can target friends/foes within 100 feet) instead of any special preparation action.

[Dirt_Kami]

lol, yeah I noticed the class name Zom B, I like your class better but the two would probably get along. Illuminated was already taken otherwise thats what I had in mind originally.

And a kamikazee level 20 ability probably isn't the most well thought out.

I had fun making the class though.

The powers I first thought of were amplifying light spells until they were painful (bonus damage against giant ants and thri-kreen), and turning sand into glass and sliding across the desert but I couldn't think of a cooler class name than Magnifying Glass Maker Man. I still stuck in the bonuses to Search and Spot though.

[Sereg]

By the way, I have enough radiances and beams up by now that the glowherd should be PEACHable. I'll help with PECHing the other entries soon, though I notice that Realms of Chaos' entry is similar enough to mine that I'm probably going to be overshadowed by awesome. Also, I can't believe that I forgot to mention illumians! They were the first race I thought of when making the class! I'm wondering if I should make some radiances and beams only accesable at higher levels. Also, I see that my 20th level has nothing very capstoney. Should I go the ToB route and let them have two primary glows as a cpstone or would something else be more appropriate? Also, seeing as though we've got martial adepts, I alerted the Age of Warriors thread.

[Owrtho]

Huzzah, a new basic mist form. And its actually a utility. Thoughts (on any of it really, but in this case more specifically the new mist form)?

Owrtho

[Zom B]

The PEACHers have been eerily silent. That could be because of the sheer volume, though.

[Sereg]

The PEACHers have been eerily silent. That could be because of the sheer volume, though.

That's probably got a lot to do with it. Also, those who've entered themselves have had a lot to put up themselves. Still, I shall see if i can help rectify that situation. Bare in mind I don't trust my ability to judge balance, so this is just going to be fluff and anything especially odd that I notice.

The Dawntreader: The fluff seems Ok. D8 is slightly lower hitpoints than typical for a frontliner, but acceptable, I think. As you said, a similar feel to the monk or swordsage. However, weapon and armour profficiencies is...odd. I think that may be the record for fewest weapon profficiencies known for a class. And this is a combatant? Only chosing one discipline may be slightly weak, but I'm not sure. Remember for Tengoku No Kobushi that those different types of damage are not balanced with each other. Many more things are resistant to fire than cold and force is stronger still. I'm not sure how that affects things. Guiding Light is a little DM fiat-ish which not everybody likes, but I suppose can be useful for plot hooks. I appreciate the ACF and feats. I'll be putting some up myself eventually. As for the disciplines, only 2 associated weapons each? Isuggest upping that for both and giving the class profficiency in all the weapons you add as well as the setting sun weapons.

The Star Shooter: "When a drow elf and a high elf bear a child at the time beween light and darkness (twilight)" :smalleek: What kind of campaigns are you running if there's a significant number of these running around? I mean, for goodness sake, while I'm all for allowing interesting race combinations, restricting a class to a member of a hybrid between two races that hate each other that was born at a certain time of day is...highly restrictive to say the least. I see no reason why other races shouldn't be allowed with the exception of your background information, which, by the way, also makes multi-classing into the class extremely hard to justify. Finally, kidnapping is not a very Chaotic Good action (though it may be justified depending on how you fluff things). Still, it's certainly an interesting idea. D6 is low for a combatant but they'll stay at the back so it's understandable. You can get the code for tables by quoting one of us or checking the guide to homebrewing thread. It really makes things easier for PEACHers. Are you including every type of bow? I assume so, but you may not be including crossbows or things that are more exotic, like footbows. Backlash=harsh. Remember that elves don't sleep anyway. Otherwise, interesting concept.

[Rauthiss]

Is it possible for two people to enter as a team? Forever Curious and I have plans for a class, and we'd hate to submit two similar classes.

[arguskos]

Is it possible for two people to enter as a team? Forever Curious and I have plans for a class, and we'd hate to submit two similar classes.
I kinda feel this would be unfair to everyone who doesn't enter as a team. You've got two minds collaborating, plus PEACHing, where the rest of us only have one. Seems sorta like the rest of us get shafted.

However, perhaps a team challenge would be fun. I have a few folks I'd ask to team up with, if they'd be willing of course.

EDIT: Oh, yes, as for the PEACHing, I'll try to hit everyone before the deadline. I might do that this weekend. Sorry I haven't been giving too much feedback, been busy and PEACHing something like 10 base classes is well... a lot of work. :smallbiggrin:

[Sereg]

Ok next:

Twighlight Caster: Normally I prefer to leave dual casting for PrC's but here it works. Plus you're creating a new casting system, which is the key to my heart. "Shadowcasters and Ethercasters however often treat them with disdain for diluting their abilities with the other kind of magic." ...You do realise that you are now contractually bound to create ethercasters as well. Get to work slave! Seriously, I love what you're doing and would love to se a class more focused on this creation of yours. Hmmm...D6 hitpoint, 4 skillpoints, medium BAB and 2 good saves for a primary caster? Isn't all that a little much? I mean, compared to Clerics and Druids it's Ok, but I'm getting the vibe that these are closer to arcane than divine and CoD is expected to spend some time in the thick of things even if they weren't designed as beatsticks. Still, maybe I'm overreacting, afterall Mysteries and mistforms are weaker than spells. I like what you're doing with mistform (as I'm sure I've made clear by now) though I'm still getting used to the mechanics. Unfortunately I don't own ToM yet so can't comment on the mysteries.

The Synergist: First off...love the fluff. Um...why are halfling synergists more common? Is it because they travel a lot? 6 skillpoints seems like a lot. I don't get a skillmonkey vibe from this class. I like that you've used MoI. It does need more support, but I'd prefer it if they got a soulmeld a little earlier, after all, look at the poor soulborn. You've also got some interesting new mechanics, which as I mentioned earlier, always earns points from me. However, I'm still uncertain as to how katas work. That may be fixed though once I can read everything in a more in-depth level.

The Extinguisher: Creepy. I approve. The idea of dark Lumis interests me. I'd love to know how their stats change (other than favoured class: extinguisher obviously). "If your game doesn't HAVE light... uh... you've got bigger issues than a one-paragraph entry on class adaptation could ever hope to solve." Now that could be an interesting setting. "d8. Extinguishers are supernaturally hardy, more than one might think." Indeed. But, if you justify it, then I'm happy. " Extinguishers are proficient with simple and light martial weapons, light and medium armors, and light shields." BLASPHEMY!!! Ok. That's my really bad pun of the day done. The mechanics are interesting. It looks like a lot of fun to play or use as a villain. Brilliant Annihilation is a bit worrying to me though. While suitably awesome as a capstone, it suggests that people have done this before, which means that you should either have permanantly dark spots in your campaign setting, or a way of getting rid of them that's not significantly more difficult. I mean, yes epic magic, but that's well big. Again, I'm probably overreacting. I also can't help but think that Shadow Apotheosis could be altered slighltly to something more suitable. Associated with the plane of shadows.

Lightbringer: Ok, as you said, very paladinish. But that can be cool. Again, I usually preffer dual progression in PrC's but it can work here. MoI + ToB = very nice. Also nice that you've made original soulmelds. The discipline, however, needs an associated skill and weapons. Otherwise it seems like a solid concept.

Inquisitor: Definatrly a good concept. I understand the connection with drow, but Lolth is Chaotic. Maybe, this is something you should think about. The D8 hit dice is something I'm a little unsure of, but then again, clerics have the same, so I guess it fits. I feel the same way about the fort save. Of course they aren't full casters, so they need nice things. Abilities are flavourful. Otherwise, I like what I'm seeing so far.

Solar Adept: So...tatooed warriors who control light. Sounds cool. Hmmm...you have options that allow you to go in very different directions. That's bonus points for me. I believe that there's never too many options. "They rewrite themselves if tampered with, and must be removed all at once with a specialized ritual in order to be permanently removed." This means that you need rules for ex-solar adepts. "The most commonly inscribed version of the ruins" Type-O. "all simple and projectile weapons" this implys that all exotic projectile weapons are included. I'm not convinced that this is a good idea. "successful Full Attack" do you define this as a full-attack with at least one hit? Energy pool means a lot of die rolling. Some might be put off by how that might lengthen combat. I do like the new mechanics though (as you may have figured out by now).

I'll do the rest tomorrow morning. i need to go home and eat supper.

[Owrtho]

Twilight Caster: Normally I prefer to leave dual casting for PrC's but here it works. Plus you're creating a new casting system, which is the key to my heart. "Shadowcasters and Ethercasters however often treat them with disdain for diluting their abilities with the other kind of magic." ...You do realize that you are now contractually bound to create ethercasters as well. Get to work slave! Seriously, I love what you're doing and would love to se a class more focused on this creation of yours. Hmmm...D6 hitpoint, 4 skillpoints, medium BAB and 2 good saves for a primary caster? Isn't all that a little much? I mean, compared to Clerics and Druids it's Ok, but I'm getting the vibe that these are closer to arcane than divine and CoD is expected to spend some time in the thick of things even if they weren't designed as beatsticks. Still, maybe I'm overreacting, afterall Mysteries and mistforms are weaker than spells. I like what you're doing with mistform (as I'm sure I've made clear by now) though I'm still getting used to the mechanics. Unfortunately I don't own ToM yet so can't comment on the mysteries.

Glad to hear that you like the Twilight Caster so far. And yes, I do realize I'll need to make an ethercaster class. Fortunately that won't take too much work aside from also adding 9th level mist forms, as they'll be like the twilight caster, but with mist forms 24/7 and gaining a new mist form every level (might have other stats more on par with a shadowcaster though).

As for some of the issues. The HD is 6 as they won't have as powerful casting as either a shadowcaster or ethercaster at any given time and will end up likely being somewhat weaker as a result. The will saves are good as it makes sense fluff wise for both the ethercaster and shadowcaster. The reflex is good as it also somewhat makes sense for that (dodging and hiding in the shadows/mist). This might be changed though as things get more toward completion.
Also, for the mist forms, in general I hope to have 4 general categories. Blasting (ones that can deal damage), Buff (somewhat self explanatory), Utility (useful outside combat), and Control (focused on dominating the battle by various effects).
As for the buff ones, these will be focused more toward making yourself stronger within the mist (though some can be used on other targets), and as it gets into higher levels, more ghost like (able to become incorporeal, turn invisible, etc.). As such a twilight caster could try to become a magic enhanced fighter with some blasting spells for good measure (at night at least).
I hope to have at least one of each type for each level of mist form.

As for how ethereal magic works simplified:
You let out mist to fill the area.
All your mist forms are only effective so long as they are within the mist.
When you use a mist form you use up some of you mist thus reducing the amount of mist and shrinking the area.
You can use up more mist on a mist form to make it more powerful.
You try not to have your area of mist get to small thus causing you to killed by not being able to get any use out of your mist forms.
You take back in any excess mist at the end of combat for use later.

Anyways, more feedback is always welcome.

Owrtho

[arguskos]

The Extinguisher: Creepy. I approve.
First, I'm glad you like it. Second, I thought I might address your comments (it's only nice to respond).


The idea of dark Lumis interests me. I'd love to know how their stats change (other than favoured class: extinguisher obviously).
Honestly, I've got no idea. I hadn't given it any thought. I could work something up, if you'd like. I might actually transplant the Extinguisher to it's own thread after this is done with, and include supplemental material, such as Dark Lumi and Extinguisher-happy feats.


"If your game doesn't HAVE light... uh... you've got bigger issues than a one-paragraph entry on class adaptation could ever hope to solve." Now that could be an interesting setting.
It would be. :smallbiggrin: Anyone interested in making it? My private setting is already twilight all the time, but no light at all, that's something different entirely.


"d8. Extinguishers are supernaturally hardy, more than one might think." Indeed. But, if you justify it, then I'm happy.
I thought it was self explanatory: their connection to shadow and darkness supernaturally reinforces their being.


"Extinguishers are proficient with simple and light martial weapons, light and medium armors, and light shields." BLASPHEMY!!! Ok. That's my really bad pun of the day done.
I see what you did there. :smalltongue: On a serious note, I did this to show that they tend towards sneaky stabbity weapons, not heavy-handed charging and smashing with axes and heavy blades.


The mechanics are interesting. It looks like a lot of fun to play or use as a villain.
Many thanks! I'm glad you like it, I was worried that no one would like it, and I've clearly been shown to be wrong.


Brilliant Annihilation is a bit worrying to me though. While suitably awesome as a capstone, it suggests that people have done this before, which means that you should either have permanantly dark spots in your campaign setting, or a way of getting rid of them that's not significantly more difficult. I mean, yes epic magic, but that's well big. Again, I'm probably overreacting.
Well, yes. There is that. However, I kinda intended the Extinguisher to have a counterpart, an Igniter, if you will, a class that brings light and gives new meaning to "lightbringer". They would be able to dispel any kind of darkness, even Brilliant Annihilation (through a similar ritual process). Course, this is just me spitballing here, but I think there's potential to having a pair of dual classes.


I also can't help but think that Shadow Apotheosis could be altered slighltly to something more suitable. Associated with the plane of shadows.
Any suggestions? I couldn't figure out what else to give it. Also, the ability to summon Shadow Elementals felt pretty shadow-themed to me. :smallwink:

[Realms of Chaos]

And now to start some in-depth PEACHing

First, the Dawntreader



The Dawntreader

The skies are alight with unwavering patrons, just looking for a crusader to arise. Dawntreaders are these, who crusade in the name of the heavens.
-Balmoriah, Master Dawntreader

The Dawntreader is a mortal who seeks heavenly enlightenment by following the cosmos. A Dawntreader follows either the sun, the moon, or the countless stars. Dawntreaders believe, to achieve the enlightenment they seek, that they must work towards emulating the heavens, through their movements and their combat styles. As they walk the earth, the Dawntreader seeks all the knowledge they can to improve themselves to gain true celestial power. Some rumors have surfaced that the greatest Dawntreaders become celestial outsiders.

Abilities: Intelligence, Strength, and Dexterity are the major stats for a Dawntreader. Many abilities of the Dawntreader are based on intelligence, and, being a melee combatant, the Dawntreader can utilize a high strength and dexterity.

Role: The Dawntreader is a melee fighter who has some supernatural abilities to improve his prowess.

Background: Anybody can become a Dawntreader, as the only thing that is needed is a drive for knowledge and a mind to seek celestial enlightenment.

Organization: No organizations come to mind.

Alignment: Though no alignment is required, the monk-like nature leads many Dawntreaders to the lawful alignment.

Races: Humans, halflings and elves are the most common Dawntreaders, as they are more dexterous or adaptable then others. This doesn't mean that dwarven or gnomish Dawntreaders are too uncommon, they are much more common then, say, half-orc Dawntreaders. Plane-touched, such as Aasimar and Tieflings are also quite common.

Religion: The Dawntreaders fall mostly into three categories: Atheist, Follower, or Religious. An atheist Dawntreader follows nothing but herself. A Follower worships the heavens as a god unto themselves. Religious Dawntreaders will mostly follow either Pelor, Ayailla, Celestian, or Xan Yae.

Other Classes: A Dawntreader will most likely get along with a monk, as they have a bit in common. Most of the others will vary depending on the alignment of the Dawntreader and the member in question.

Adaptation: Though the base has some Japanese ability names, the class could quite honestly fit into any setting where magic isn't too rare.

Hit Die: d8

Starting Gold: As Monk

Ooh, another monk fix... well... kind of. Most of the fluff is pretty simplistic and easy to follow. Kind of wierd that they are broken up into "not religious", "a bit religious", and "very religious" as those categories apply to most classes (other than divine casters, of course).



Class Features

Class Skills: The Dawntreader's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance (Dex; Armor Check Penalty); Climb (Str; Armor Check Penalty); Concentration (Con); Escape Artist (Dex; Armor Check Penalty); Hide (Dex; Armor Check Penalty); Jump (Str; Armor Check Penalty); Listen (Wis); Search (Int); Sense Motive (Wis); Sleight Of Hand (Dex; Trained Only; Armor Check Penalty); Spot (Wis); Survival (Wis); Tumble (Dex; Trained Only; Armor Check Penalty)

Skill Points at First Level: 2+Int modifier x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2+Int modifer

Interesting. Even though this guy gets less skill points than the Monk, he relies on Intelligence so the difference is made up easily.
It's interesting to have Armor check penalty and trained only skills labeled as such but it may be very helpful. Unconventional but a nice personal touch.


Dawntreader
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Manouvers Known|Manouvers Readied|Stances Known

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+2| Heavenly Movements; Improved Unarmed Strike; Flurry of Blows | 3 | 3 | 1
2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3| Tengoku No Kobushi (1d4); Treading Through Dawn | 4 | 3 | 1
3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3| Evasion | 4 | 3 | 1

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+4| Edge of Twilight | 5 | 4 | 1

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+4| Tengoku No Kobushi (1d6) | 5 | 4 | 1

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+5| Heavenly Training | 6 | 4 | 2

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5| Guiding Light | 6 | 5 | 2

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+6| Tengoku No Kobushi (1d8) | 7 | 5 | 2

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+6| Meteorite Rush | 7 | 5 | 2

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+7| Heavenly Affinity | 8 | 6 | 2

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+7| Tengoku No Kobushi (1d10) | 8 | 6 | 3

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+8| Improved Heavenly Training | 9 | 6 | 3

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+8| Improved Treading Through Dawn | 9 | 7 | 3

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+9| Tengoku No Kobushi (2d6) | 10 | 7 | 3

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+9| Improved Edge of Twilight | 10 | 7 | 3

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+10| Heavenly Illumination | 11 | 8 | 4

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10| Tengoku No Kobushi (2d8) | 11 | 8 | 4

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+11| Perfect Heavenly Training | 12 | 8 | 4

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+11| Improved Meteorite Rush | 12 | 9 | 4

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+12| Embodiment of the Heavens; Tengoku No Kobushi (2d10) | 13 | 9 | 4 [/table]

Okay, we have a monk with renamed AC bonuses and speed, full BAB, and maneuvers. So far, so good.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Dawntreader is proficient with Quarterstaff, Morningstar, and Shurikens but no armor.

Heavenly Movements (Ex): The Dawntreader's pursuit of heavenly knowledge drives him to emulate the skies' ever-moving style, letting you add your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class while unarmored. This applies to touch AC, but not while flatfooted.

Wow, proficiency with even less weaponry than the monk. That's... an accomplishment.

As for the AC bonus, you were careful to distinguish it from the monk bonus in several ways. It never increases (um, okay), you lose it while flat-footed (makes sense), you keep it while immobilized and unconscious (wait, what?), and you keep the bonus while carrying a medium or heavy load (again, what?).
This bonus seems a bit odd but I guess that's okay...


Improved Unarmed Strike: The Dawntreader gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat as a bonus feat, regardless of pre-requisites.

And, much like the monk, you do not gain proficiency with your own unarmed strike. :smalltongue:
Also, you need to have hands free when fighting, making this guy a straightforward brawler.


Flurry of Blows (Ex): See the monk ability of the same name, save that the weapons usable are Quarterstaff, Morningstar, or no weapon.

Standard fare. Moving on.


Martial Discipline: At level 1, a Dawntreader chooses one of the following disciplines to follow: Setting Sun; Rising Moon; Shooting Star. To recover expended maneuvers, a Dawntreader must take a full round action staring at the sky in deep contemplation of the heavens. This provokes no attacks of opportunity.

I've always considered provoking attacks of opportunity to be lowering your guard long enough to make such an attack...
...You know, like when you stop thinking about the battle and stop looking at your enemies to do nothing but stare into the sky and contemplate your place in the heavenly cycle. :smalltongue:
Of course, all of this is just plain fluff so I have no real problems with it at a mechanical level even if it suspends my disbelief a bit. :smallwink:

On the upside, I can really dig the concept of a martial class that dedicates him/herself to a single discipline of maneuvers. That is original and I like it.

Tengoku No Kobushi (Su): Dawntreaders learn an art known as Tengoku No Kobushi, or "Fists of Heaven", in which the Dawntreader focuses celestial energy through her hands, granting improved martial prowess. A Dawntreader adds additional damage to her unarmed attacks. A Setting Sun Dawntreader may choose from fire, holy, or positive damage on successful unarmed attacks. A Rising Moon Dawntreader may choose from cold, unholy, or negative damage on successful unarmed attacks. A Shooting Star Dawntreader may choose from force, fire, or cold.

This is a very intriguing ability. Instead of unarmed strikes becoming more powerful, they start carrying an elemental power with them. I must say that I like what I see here.

Even so, a couple questions for you...
1. Does positive energy heal the living?
2. Does negative energy heal the undead?
3. Does force damage let you attack incorporeal/ethereal creatures?
4. Why would anybody choose fire or cold when resistance and immunity is so common?


Treading Through Dawn (Su): A Dawntreader searches through night and day for greater knowledge. Starting at second level, a Dawntreader may Tread Dawn, moving at an increased rate, adding 10 feet for every four class levels.

This ability improves at level 13, granting the Dawntreader the ability to become ethereal while moving 50 feet or more in one turn.

Okay, we get a renamed speed bonus that becomes totally awesome at level 13. I don't quite understand if you become ethereal for the entire movement or just for all movement after the first 50 feet.


Evasion (Ex): The Dawntreader moves quickly and seamlessly, making dodging magic easy. At 2nd level or higher if a Dawntreader makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Dawntreader is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Dawntreader does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Again, pretty standard ability. Moving right along.


Edge of Twilight (Su): A Dawntreader's connection with the heavenly bodies allows them to bend light around them, blurring their appearance, giving them the effects of the Blur spell. This only works when outdoors.

At level 15, the Dawntreader's skill at bending light increases, giving them the effects of Displacement when outdoors.

I think that I could count the number of abilities that require you to be outside on a single hand so good work and nice originality.
I guess that this helps make up for how your AC bonus never increases. Good idea with great execution.


Heavenly Training (Su): A Dawntreader's training in his chosen discipline give him additional abilities.
{table=head]Discipline | Level 6 | Level 12 | Level 18
Rising Moon | +3 Martial Lore | Sudden Recovery | Adaptive Style
Shooting Star | +3 Jump | Improved Trip | Curling Wave Strike
Setting Sun | +3 Sense Motives | Stunning Fist* | Falling Sun Strike [/table]
*Treat the Dawntreader as a monk of equal level with the Kung Fu Genius Feat.

And you make the Dawntreader feel like s/he has a fighting style. Not too powerful but I still love this ability.


Guiding Light (Su): The Dawntreader shares a great link with the celestial bodies, and they are very wise. Once per day, a Dawntreader may meditate for 10 minutes. If she isn't interrupted, the Dawntreader may then ask the heavens for direction. If the quest being undertaken is acceptable to his principles, the master will point in the right direction. If not, the master will point towards a worthy cause.

Again, we have an ability that is nothing but solidified flavor. Sweet, sweet flavor. Even so, this ability is a very good one and it lets you know, for example, if fetching that "worthless trinket" from the ruins for that mysterious stranger would be going against your values.
Even though it may derail some traditional quests and plot twists, I still like what you've done here.


Meteorite Rush (Ex): A Dawntreader eventually can start emulating the heavens themselves, mimicking their force of movement. A Dawntreader of level 9 may make a Meteorite Rush once per encounter, in which he makes a charge and ends with a flurry of blows with each hit at -5.

At level 19, the Dawntreader has perfected this technique, removing the penalty to hit.

You may want to replace "with each hit at -5" with the more proper "with a -5 penalty to all attack rolls"
Also, thank you for finally making an ability that let's a "monk's" speed and flurry synergize with each other.


Heavenly Affinity (Sp): A Dawntreader has gained great abilities from his celestial connection, granting him the an at will spell-like ability. A Rising Sun Dawntreader gains the ability to use Daylight at will, while a Rising Moon Dawntreader gains the ability to use Deeper Darkness at will. A Shooting Star Dawntreader gains the ability to use Jump at will.

A bit more flavor, now coming in the form of an SLA at will. Again, I appreciate the time that you put in to making the dawntreader a very flavorful class in addition to a playable one.


Heavenly Illumination (Su): A Dawntreader is smiled upon by the heavens themselves, granting them the ability to produce and quell illumination around them.

Even though we have a basic summary of what this ability does, we don't have any hard rules for it. How much light can you make and how bright? How much darkness can you make and can you opt to create shadowy illumination? At what range do these abilities function and do they suppress abilities of the [light] and [darkness] descriptor automatically?

Just some questions to ask yourself.



Embodiment of the Heavens (Ex): The pinnacle of Dawntreader power, the Dawntreader becomes one with the heavens. A level 20 Dawntreader gains his Intelligence modifier to attack and damage rolls while wielding Shurikens, Quarterstaves, or no weapon, and can make an additional attack at his highest bonus while flurrying. Also, the Dawntreader becomes an outsider native to the Astral Plane.

I did not see this ability coming. You finally put a lid on some of this guy's MAD and you now get 7 attacks while flurrying.
Also, thank you for finally making a class that turns into a genuine outsider, not just a native outsider. For some reason, there are plenty of ways to become undead or a construct or whatnot in DnD but no ways to become a genuine outsider (other than this, polymorphing, or intense LA).



Alternate Class Features

Alternate Class Ability: Tengoku No Tatchi
Level: Dawntreader 2nd
Replaces: If you select this alternative class feature, you do not gain the Tengoku No Kobushi class feature, the Shooting Star Rush class ability, or any later improvements to either of these.
Benefit: The Dawntreader who follows the path of Tengoku No Tatchi forgoes the ability to focus celestial energy into her hands, and instead learns the art of Tengoku No Tatchi, or the "Heavenly Touch". A Tengoku No Tatchi Dawntreader may, in place of a melee attack, make a ranged touch attack that deals damage equal to, and of the same type choice, as the Tengoku No Kobushi class ability.

At level 9, a Tengoku No Tatchi Dawntreader may use flurry of blows in conjunction with Tengoku No Tatchi at an additional -5 penalty.

At level 19, a Tengoku No Tatchi Dawntreader may use flurry of blows in conjunction with Tengoku No Tatchi with no penalty.

Wow, you really went a step beyond when making this class. Alternate class features and feats and everything. This ability seems pretty good and finally gives this guy some ranged options other than shuriken. Unfortunately, it's just a matter of time before someone uses this ability and screams "kamehameha". :smallfrown:



Dawntreader Feats

Movements of the Wise Heavens[Dawntreader]
Though most Dawntreaders are driven by a hunger for knowledge of the celestial nature, some are driven for celestial enlightenment.
Prerequisites: Dawntreader 1
Benefits: Dawntreader abilities you posses based on intelligence are now based on wisdom.
Normal: These abilities are normally based on intelligence.

Starlit Avenger
Some Dawntreaders find that behind the sun is the god Pelor. They devote themselves to following him and his tenets.
Prerequisites: Tengoku No Kobushi class ability; Smite Evil class ability
Benefits: Your levels in Paladin and Dawntreader stack for determining the damage of your Tengoku No Kobushi ability and your Smite Evil ability. You deal an additional +2 damage when smiting evil unarmed.

Starlit Sneak
Some Dawntreaders find that combat in the Moon's domain of night is easier when you know where to hit.
Prerequisites: Tengoku No Kobushi class ability; Sneak Attack class ability or Sudden Strike class ability
Benefits: Your levels in Rogue (or Ninja) and Dawntreader stack for determining the damage of your Tengoku No Kobushi ability and your Sneak Attack (or Sudden Strike) ability's dice. You deal an additional +2 damage when sneak attacking unarmed.

Starlit Soldier [Fighter]
Some Dawntreaders find that the arms of the mundane may be extraordinary in the hands of the celestial.
Prerequisites: Tengoku No Kobushi class ability; Proficiency with all Martial Weapons
Benefits: Your levels in Fighter and Dawntreader stack for determining the damage of your Tengoku No Kobushi ability and your qualification for Fighter feats. Weapons you have Weapon Specialization with may be used in conjunction with flurry of blows. Weapons you have Greater Weapon Specialization with may be used with your Tengoku No Kobushi ability. This feat may be taken as a fighter bonus feat.


Starlit Invoker
Some Dawntreaders find that their Tengoku No Tatchi technique meshes well with the powers of the Warlock school of magic.
Prerequisites: Tengoku No Tatchi class ability; Eldritch Blast class ability
Benefits: Your levels in Warlock and Dawntreader stack for determining the damage of your Tengoku No Tatchi ability and your Invocation list. You may use Invocations that alter your Eldritch blast in conjunction with Tengoku No Tatchi and may flurry Eldritch Blasts as though they were Tengoku No Tatchi blasts.

Starlit Ascendent [Monk]
Some Dawntreaders find that the combat style of the Monk is very complimentary for them.
Prerequisites: Tengoku No Kobushi class ability; Monk 1
Benefits: Your levels in Monk and Dawntreader stack for determining the damage of your Tengoku No Kobushi ability and your unarmed strike damage. In addition, you may make an additional attack at your highest bonus while using flurry of blows. This feat may be taken as a monk bonus feat.

Consider putting in a line of text in both starlit avenger and starlit ascendent that let's you multiclass out of paladin/monk into dawntreader and gain levels (and not lose your paladin abilities) in that class later on.



Disciplines of the Dawntreader


Shooting Star
The Shooting Star discipline was created by Aerdrith, one of the original Dawntreaders, whose brother was a much darker individual. They warred on over whose celestial body, the sun, Aedrith's celestial patron, or the moon, Drimith's favored heavenly body, was more powerful. The Shooting Star style is based heavily on the Setting Sun discipline, but instead of using your opponent's own power, you supply your own while bringing retribution from above. Sadly, the story has been handed down through generations, and the ending claimed by antiquity.


Key Skill: Balance
Weapons: Unarmed Strike; Quarterstaff
Level 1:
Blazing Soul: Stance (+2 Strength; Tripping provokes no attacks of opportunity)
Fading Star Reversal: Counter (Respond to a missed attack with a trip)
Sweep of the Shrouded Skies: Boost (Improved Trip DC)
Meteor Heel: Strike (Additional damage to prone opponents)
Level 2:
Blazing Sweep: Strike (Attacks up to three targets in front of the user)
Meteor Elbow: Strike ( Strength or Dexterity damage to prone target)
Walk of the Stars: Boost (+2 Morale bonus to attack and armor after knocking a target prone)
Crashing Elbow Blow: Strike (Wisdom, Charisma, or Intelligence damage to prone target)
Level 3:
Falling Spider: Strike (Constitution damage to a prone target)
Meteorite Heel: Strike (Additional damage to prone opponents)
Soul of the Stars: Stance (You may replace any number of attacks in a full round attack or flurry with trips)
Level 4:
Crashing Sweep: Strike (Trip against up to 3 targets in front of you at a penalty)
Falling Meteor Strike: Counter (Against a target recovering from being prone; Make a trip attempt at a minor bonus)
Orien's Roar: Strike (Make a melee attack; if it hits, target must make a will save vs. fear)
Level 5:
Clear Sun Reversal: Counter (Respond to a missed attack with a trip)
Jumping Meteorite Heel: Strike (Additional damage to prone opponents)
Golden Blaze Drive: Stance ( Add Intelligence to trip attempts; May follow trips with manuevers instead of an extra attack)
Level 6:
Dance of the Stars: Boost (+4 Morale bonus to attack and armor after knocking a target prone)
Swift Star Sweep: Strike (Trip that takes a Full Round Action to stand up)
Level 7:
Blazing Star Reversal: Counter (Respond to a missed attack with a two trips at a penalty)
Blazing Meteorite Heel: Strike ( Additional damage to prone opponents)
Level 8:
Neutron Implosion: Strike (Make a trip attack against all adjecent targets)
Mastery of the Shooting Star: Stance (You may add you Intelligence modifier to trip attemps, and follow your successful trips with 3 attacks at highest bonus)
Level 9:
Shūtingu Sutā No Hakai Ashi : Strike (Kills prone target on failed Reflex save; deals 10d6 force on succeeded save)



Rising Moon
The Rising Moon discipline was created by Drimith, the brother of Aerdrith. Although he was of less then savory character, he was a master of martial arts, and specifically favored highly complicated maneuvers over simple attacks. This makes the attacks and defences harder to deal with without a decent knowledge of the maneuvers themselves or a keen ability to spot the incoming onslaught.


Key Skill: Martial Lore
Weapons: Unarmed Strike; Quarterstaff
(Special: The attack rolls I reference mean that they make a roll of a normal attack at highest bonus, but don't deal actual damage, just Tengoku No Kobushi damage.)
Level 1:
Shrouded Movements: Stance (Add your 1/4 of your Martial Lore to the attack rolls of your maneuvers)
Crescent Wrath: Strike (Additional to hit and damage)
Edge of Twilight: Counter (Used against target who uses a spell or maneuver; Make 2 attack rolls. If they connect, they are blinded or silenced)
Lunar Spike: Counter (Used against target moving away from you; Make 2 attack rolls, if they connect the target stops their movement)
Level 2:
Shroud of Nightfall: Strike (Make 2 attacks that deal additional damage to flat-footed targets)
Consuming Shadow: Strike (Make 2 attack rolls. If they connect, the target's speed is reduced to zero temporarily)
New Moon: Counter (Used against a target regaining maneuvers. Make 2 attack rolls. If they all connect, the target loses of all maneuvers and temporary has an inability to recover them)
Intellectual Combatant: Boost (You add 1/2 of your ranks in Martial Lore to your attack rolls.)
Level 3:
Intellectual Tactician: Stance (You gain an additional bonus to hit while flanking equal to your Intelligence modifier)
Blade of the Evening Sky: Strike (Make 2 attack rolls. If they both connect, the target is flat footed.)
Lunar Speed: Boost (You may make an additional swift action or 5 foot step once a round)
Level 4:
Lunar Flash: Counter (Used against a target avoiding your attack; Target takes a -5 circumstance penalty to Spot and armor class against your attacks)
Crescent Point Barrage: Strike (Make 3 attack rolls. If all of them connect, your target becomes helpless for a number of rounds equal to your intelligence modifier minus their constitution modifier (Minimum: one round)
Utter Darkness: Strike (Make 3 attack rolls. If they both connect, the target is shaken)
Level 5:
Lunar Nova: Strike (Make 3 attack rolls, if they all connect, you deal an additional 5d6 negative damage.)
Midnight Hour: Counter (Used when target moves without any allies adjacent; Target must end the movement in a square of the Dawntreader's choice)
Dance of the Night Sky: Stance (You may add your Dexterity as an insight bonus to armor class)
Level 6:
Poisonous Crescent: Strike (Make 3 attack rolls. If they all connect, the target suffers the effects of Arsenic)
Full Moon: Strike (Make 3 attack rolls. If they connect, you may make a full round attack on them.
Winter Solstice: Boost (You deal additional damage while dealing cold damage with Tengoku No Kobushi)
Level 7:
Shadow of Doubt: Counter (Used against a target making a will save. Make 4 attack rolls. If they all connect, the target fails the save.
Evening Blight Barrage: Strike (Make 4 attack rolls. If they all connect, the target is effected by Medium Spider poison)
Level 8:
Lunar Eclipse: Strike (Make 4 attack rolls. If they all connect, you deal double the Tengoku No Kobushi damage per attempt.)
Mastery of the Rising Moon: Stance (You may add 1/4 of the difference between your ranks in Martial Lore and your target's Spot or Martial Lore ranks to your attack roll or armor class)
Level 9:
Akire Ta Fōsuno Mūnraijingu: Strike (Make 5 attack rolls. If they all connect, you outright kill the target or deal 10d6 of force damage)


I can't really comment on these until they are fully written up, unfortunately.

*pant* *pant* *pant* Phew.

Was that a bit too in-depth for a proper PEACH or should I continue looking at other classes like this?

[Owrtho]

I'd say the more in depth the better, but don't overwork yourself.

Owrtho

[Sereg]

I'd say the more in depth the better, but don't overwork yourself.

Owrtho

Agreed. This happens to be the most in-depth PEACHing I've ever done, but I decided that it was fair and I'm glad that it's apparently been found useful so far. Of course, we've got 14 entries. That's a lot. Still, time to do some more:

Harshlight Warrior: Definately a nice concept. Going with the whole "Light is not Good" schtick. Harshlight Aura is thematic, but will result in a lot of dierolling and backlash which may put people off. The other abilities are also appropriate for the theme, but I worry that s/he's as much a danger to him/herself as to his/her enemies. Still, nice concept as I said.

Edgewalker: Using the plane of mirrors as a power source? I like that idea. A new interesting mechanic is something I enjoy as you should know by now. "Blinding Beam uses three light points, and returns one darkness point." I believe you mean shadow point. Master of Day and Night is a nice flavourful ability. Immaculate Reflection, while thematic, worries me a lot. Even if the reflection is not under your control, you can easily weaken or even kill people far more powerful than you this way. Maddening Truth is another thing that makes me want to go "yikes". Of course it does allow a save so that should be ok, I guess. I do like how you've keot the theme of balance with gaining one type of "energy" while losing another.

Got to get to work. Will do more PEACHing later.

[Cogwheel]

Thank you. While I can definitely see why those abilities worry you, I put a few failsafes in, so to speak. First off, Immaculate Reflection only lasts for a little while. And, of course, dies to an Antimagic Field, or rather, is suppressed.

If that's not enough, I could add that it copies the target's base stats, but also retains its current HP. In other words, it keeps damage, but not buffs. That could weaken it a fair bit, though I believe it already keeps damage. If it needs a further nerf, it can take some damage whenever the original does (the fluff being that it hates the original enough that it won't care about dying trying to kill it). The whole thing was mirror-of-opposition inspired, so it could use some reworking. Maybe.

Maddening Truth... well, it'll cost a lot. If you do use it, you're going to spend a while recharging with less effective moves. And when all's said and done, it's a save-or-die (something which level 9 clerics can get) with ways to prevent it after you fail the save. For instance, an ally could restrain them with Hold Person/Monster until the craziness wears off.

Again, I'm just defending the abilities here so you see where I'm coming from. If you still think it needs fixing (which I find rather more likely for IR than Maddening Truth), than I'll do so. Thanks, anyway. Always nice to have some feedback :smallbiggrin:


Edit: It's less that they draw on the plane for power, and more that they gain part of the plane's power. To use a rather exaggerated example, it's the difference between a fire elemental (assuming the plane turns you into an elemental) and a fire-based wizard. Whether you see being touched by the plane in this way as a blessing or corruption, of course, depends on the character.

[Sereg]

@Cogwheel: It's cool. I'm just giving my impresions. As I said, I don't trust my ability to judge balance anyway. We'll see what other people say.

Torchbearer: Ok, a very paladinish class. Fluff is still interesting but mandatory membership in an organization is usually associated with prestige classes. For base classes I'd like to see more leeway. (Of course I'm being a bit hypocritical as several base classes have mandatory guild membership in my setting, but that's due to the nature of it's history). Hmmm...9th level spontaneous divine spells like a favoured soul, but knows the whole spell list like a cleric or druid. Oh well, the spell list isn't very long, but I do see miracle there, I guess I'll leave this up to others as to whether the result is balanced. The features are interesting and the archon companion is a nice touch, but what if you're chaotic good? There'd be some conflicts. Maybe an alternate companion possibiliy is in order. As they need to be good, you should have rules for ex-torchbearers.

The Illuminator: As expected from you, very nice fluff. Again, I prefer it when base classes are not tied to a specific organization though. Still, they are free to leave after training which is nice. As I said earlier, I can't believe that I forgot to mention illumians in my entry. In fact, while I was designing the class, I even considered giving them racial substitution levels, despite me having never made those before. Anyway, I approve. As a support class, d6 hit dice and 6 skill points makes sense. As for the class features, they are interesting.

Finally, the Sklor: Your background makes it difficult justify multiclassing as a sklor from another class, which is something I prefer avoiding, also, what happens if the individual gained darkvision from a source other than race? D12 hit dice, full BAB, all good saves, 6 hit points and you get to choose all but one of your class skills :smalleek:. That's...a lot. D12 is maximum hit dice. Remember that most front liners only get d10, still you can justify it. All good saves is also very uncommon. Of course, these last two issues may be made up by not being profficient with armour. 6 skill points is associated with skillmonkeys, which this does not seem to be, the choice of class skills provides a similar issue. As written, sun blessed works in darkness, yet I doubt that you intended that. Also, you probably want rules for ex-sklors.

[Zom B]

Torchbearer: Ok, a very paladinish class. Fluff is still interesting but mandatory membership in an organization is usually associated with prestige classes.

The organization counts all torchbearers in its number, whether the individual wants to be or not. Most of the time, they do want to be a part of the organization for the prestige of it. However, this membership isn't exactly enforced. As you notice, torchbearers can let the order know that they are "going solo" or going to be travelling with a party, and they won't be picked for tasks. The order keeps them on the role, though.


Hmmm...9th level spontaneous divine spells like a favoured soul, but knows the whole spell list like a cleric or druid. Oh well, the spell list isn't very long, but I do see miracle there, I guess I'll leave this up to others as to whether the result is balanced.

They have the same number of spells that the Beguiler gets and the same casting method and same spells per day. It's just a different spell list. The beguiler likewise knows all of the spells on his list as soon as he can cast them.


The features are interesting and the archon companion is a nice touch, but what if you're chaotic good? There'd be some conflicts.

I don't think there has to be, any more than between the LG party member and the CG party member in a normal party. The archon has a higher intelligence than an animal, so it's not as "orderable" as an animal companion anyway.


As they need to be good, you should have rules for ex-torchbearers.

That's next up on the docket. Right now I'm bugged because there's no capstone.

[Sereg]

@Zom B: Ah yes, beguillers. Forgot about them. As for the companion, I was just thinking that companions usually have personalities more similar to there master than two party members, but it's your call.

Ok, we've got a fifteenth entry. So here we go:

The Weight Warrior: As you said, you went in a different direction, but that's good for originallity. The fluff is interesting. The saves and BAB make sense. The class features are interesting and make sense. One thing I considered while reading is that you might lhave an ability to cause weapons to deal damage as if they were a size category larger. If you make any changes, you may want to consider that as a possibility.

[Fortuna]

I've made a few changes to the Harshlight Warrior, which may well completely alter the feel and play of it. I'll update the relevant bits of the post later, but the mechanics are all up. Importantly, it's now an initiator class.

[IcarusWings]

The Synergist: First off...love the fluff.

Thanks, it was originally based on the zodiac, but I changed it to stars for this competition and actually prefer it now.


Um...why are halfling synergists more common? Is it because they travel a lot?

Yes and no. I was going off the whole pollution doesn't let you see the stars as well schtick. Thus, being nomadic, halflings would see them better.


6 skillpoints seems like a lot. I don't get a skillmonkey vibe from this class.

Oh, is 4 acceptable?


I like that you've used MoI. It does need more support, but I'd prefer it if they got a soulmeld a little earlier, after all, look at the poor soulborn.

I actually based their meldshaping on the Soulborn but delayed it a level backwards. I've never used Incarnum but thought it was a neat mechanic, so I never realized that they were considered underpowered.
Should I move it to a Soulborn's normal rate, due to this not being the focus of the class, or would you prefer it if I move them earlier?


You've also got some interesting new mechanics, which as I mentioned earlier, always earns points from me. However, I'm still uncertain as to how katas work. That may be fixed though once I can read everything in a more in-depth level.

I never was very good at explaining things. The mechanic is designed to encourage you, although being a flexible class, to focus on one thing in that encounter, you can change based on the situation but you lose all the momentum you built up.

Basically, whenever you use a form from a kata you gain one synergy point, which lets you use another, more powerful, form, but you only gain a synergy point if the form you just used is from the same kata as the last one you used. To use a form from a different kata, it's synergy rating must be lower than your synergy pool by 3, and you lose synergy points equal to the synergy rating of that form.

For example if you had a synergy pool of 11, and the last form you executed was from the dragon kata, and you wanted to use a form from the toad kata, the highest level one you can use is 8 (11-3), leaving you with a synergy pool of 3. But if you chose to use a level 5 one from the toad kata then you would have 6 remaining (11-6).

Hope that answers your question and doesn't just confuse you more :P

Merlin

[Fortuna]

I've given the harshlight warrior another overhaul, but I'm worried that it invalidates his higher level abilities. A twentieth level harshlight warrior starts with ten fury points and can gain an additional 4 every round without a problem, although that requires that he not use martial maneuvers or stances, which is kinda crippling. Using those would leave 4 rounds before he ever gets to his level 18 ability, apart from damage of course. Thoughts?

EDIT: Awesome. I just realized that, under one interpretation, he gets at-will laser beams at second level. Cool.

[Rauthiss]

Is PEACHing required? This is my first challenge, and I still don't consider myself qualified to PEACH.

Also, for Owrtho - what actions are needed to leak mist and then use the corresponding mist forms? I couldn't find it anywhere in the descriptions of the abilities.

[Owrtho]

Dang, I'm surprised I forgot that. Mist leaking is a move action and mist forms are standard actions. I've modified the abilities to note this.

Owrtho

[Sereg]

Is PEACHing required? This is my first challenge, and I still don't consider myself qualified to PEACH.

I didn't notice anything in the rules saying so. I just considered it polite and would like it if as many of these as possible ended up playable. I do understand your reservation though, so I, at least, will understand if you don't.

[The Duke]

Hmm, my idea is decidedly harder to design then anticipated.

I have ended up with a smattering of abilities that are in a rag tag order and need to be shuffled about for fairness, and I still need to decide how the abilities are activated and uses per day..

But for those of you who are interested in the concept the idea is a prism singer, an individual who bend, distorts and fractures light using his or her voice....

[Temotei]

However, perhaps a team challenge would be fun.

Agreed. That should come up eventually. :smallamused:

Imagine: Fax Celestis, Djinn_in_Tonic, The Demented One, and Realms of Chaos all working on one class.
:eek:

Note that those aren't all of the really good homebrewers out there. Just...naming some of the "bigs." :smallcool:

[Sereg]

Imagine: Fax Celestis, Djinn_in_Tonic, The Demented One, and Realms of Chaos all working on one class.
:eek:

Before they would have finished, their heads would have exploded from witnessing more awsome than any human is allowed to.

[Owrtho]

Well, I added another mist form. Also got around to adding a quote at the start. Advice and suggestions are welcome as always.

Owrtho

[Sereg]

This is both a bump and a couple of comments.


I've given the harshlight warrior another overhaul, but I'm worried that it invalidates his higher level abilities. A twentieth level harshlight warrior starts with ten fury points and can gain an additional 4 every round without a problem, although that requires that he not use martial maneuvers or stances, which is kinda crippling. Using those would leave 4 rounds before he ever gets to his level 18 ability, apart from damage of course. Thoughts?

EDIT: Awesome. I just realized that, under one interpretation, he gets at-will laser beams at second level. Cool.

Having rechecked your class, I like the changes. They do make it more powerful of course though, but at least manuevers that don't hurt it's allies.

The other small changes that have been made seem good to me, though I would think that an alignment change would also cause a sklor to fall.

I'll leave other comments to other people for now.

[Creed]

Isn't the contest over now???

[IcarusWings]

Isn't the contest over now???

I believe the deadline was extended to the 30th of April, but if I'm wrong then my entry is screwed.

[Owrtho]

That's what was said (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8043503&postcount=59).
Still I could really use some feedback and suggestions on mist forms through. At least I have 14 though, meaning someone with primary ethercasting would be able to go to level 20 (mind they would end up rather weak more than likely as they lack higher level mist forms).

Owrtho

[Creed]

Dang it! I thought it was the 2nd! I was done halfway through march, but mine sucks majorly.

[IcarusWings]

Tiger Kata is up :D Still very very very unfinished. Have basic plans for about 10 more katas.

Merlin

[Sereg]

Dang it! I thought it was the 2nd! I was done halfway through march, but mine sucks majorly.

That just means that you have time to fix things. Also, I don't think that it sucks, just that the fluff is extremely niche. Of course, we'll have to see what other people say as as I've indicated before, i don't trust my ability to judge balance.

Also, merlin, I'm glad that you're expanding the katas.

[IcarusWings]

Added the Eel Kata. Wow, two katas done today, I'm on a roll

Also added very bare descriptions of the constellations

P.S. a cookie for anyone who finds the hidden Kung Fu film reference

Merlin

[Sereg]

Ok, I've finished all the beams and radiances that I currently have planned, though suggestions for more are welcome. As I said earlier, I may limit some to higher level glowherds depending on what other people say. Note: This is also a hint saying that I would like to be PEACHed.

[Lord_Gareth]

Bump, ya'll. Bump for great justice.

[Zom B]

I think most people have wrapped up their entries thinking the deadline was 9 or so days ago. I might go back in and do some tinkering, but for now I'm fine.

[Owrtho]

Huh, I need to try getting some more mist forms done...
It's been difficult to come up with any new ones recently...

Owrtho

[Sereg]

Well, I could certainly do with some PEACHing. For all I know I could have several major problems with my class.

Also, I've been wondering if we shouldn't add starting age as well.

Finally, Lord Gareth, perhaps you should edit the OP of the submission thread to reflect the new deadline.

[Lord_Gareth]

It has been done. Add starting age if you feel like it, but keep in mind that precisely zero players are going to actually give a damn about it.

[IcarusWings]

I'm still no where near done(and probably still won't be until about 4 days before the deadline:smallbiggrin:)

merlin

[IcarusWings]

I've Kinda' started grinding to a halt with katas and any help would be appreciated.
The ones ones I've currently got planned are...

Paragon Kata
The tank-y and knight-y one. This one is about half done.

Serpent Kata
Focuses on using flexibility but poison and other snake-like traits will be used.

Stag Kata
Focuses on grappling.

Phoenix Kata
Fire-based magic-esque. Not copies of spells but new ones.

Star Kata
Miscellaneous magic, this constellation is pretty much all other stars that don't form true constellations.

Wolf Kata
Stealth-based, expect a pseudo-sneak attack

Huntsman Kata
Archery-based.

Great Void Kata
the darkness between the stars, shadow-based magic-esque.

Hawk Kata
Jumping and Aerial fighting

Choose any of them to contribute, it would be good if you could suggest a synergy-rating based on power-level too, as I am horrible at judging these things.

Any help is duly appreciated in advance.

Merlin

[IcarusWings]

Paragon and Wolf Kata's are up and I added a clause to stop you spamming the ultimate forms every round once your synergy pool reaches 12.

I highly doubt I will finish all the Katas, but I will try to finish as many as possible and then submit that as the finished one.

Merlin

P.S. there are now probably enough Katas for PEACHing (though I doubt there'll be time).

EDIT: finally added a capstone!

[Sereg]

Well I've added a quote and a capstone. I was really hoping for someone to PEACH, but maybe I can try in a different thread once the competitions finished and add feats etc.

[IcarusWings]

The Synergist is now officially finished. I would rather of added a few more katas and filled in those dead levels but that's what I get for not getting a move on until 10 days before the deadline.

Merlin

[Lord_Gareth]

CLOSED.

Results pending.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alright folks, I'm rather embarassed to admit this, but my 'net time has been slashed in half, and I will not have time to judge the many fine entries here. As such, I would like to ask your opinions - would you rather take this to vote or have the community elect a judge who would pull his/her own entry out and judge the rest?

[ErrantX]

Votes have always done well in my contest.

-X

[Rauthiss]

I'd actually prefer a Judge. The small number of participants lends itself to a small number of votes, resulting in either something with 2 votes winning or 2-3 classes gaining all the votes. If voting was public, however, I think that might be able to work, but tabulating the votes could be difficult. As such, I believe appointing a judge or judges might be a better route. Alas, these are only my own personal thoughts on the matter.

[arguskos]

I would prefer a vote. I do not feel a single judge would be honestly impartial enough.

As for the voting, probably opening it to the public community (ala VT's contests) and barring the contestants from voting would be best.

[Cogwheel]

I would prefer a vote. I do not feel a single judge would be honestly impartial enough.

As for the voting, probably opening it to the public community (ala VT's contests) and barring the contestants from voting would be best.

Personally, I think this would work best. Public vote it is.

[Zom B]

Personally, I think this would work best. Public vote it is.

What he said.

[IcarusWings]

A method which I always preferred is for it to be a public vote where you vote who should be first, second and third. A vote for third gives you 1 point, second gives you 2 points and first gives you 3, and the pople with the highest points win/come 2nd and 3rd.
This is a little more complex but means you don't have everybody voting for the same one and then you have no idea who came 2nd or 3rd.

Merlin

[Sereg]

A method which I always preferred is for it to be a public vote where you vote who should be first, second and third. A vote for third gives you 1 point, second gives you 2 points and first gives you 3, and the pople with the highest points win/come 2nd and 3rd.
This is a little more complex but means you don't have everybody voting for the same one and then you have no idea who came 2nd or 3rd.

Merlin

This, while slightly more complicated, could be nice. Anyway, I agree that voting is better. Not only is it less subject to bias, it may attract more participants and it would really suck if someone had to pull out in order to judge fairly.

[FlamingKobold]

So... let's get a voting thread started. I'd be fine with making one, unless someone else wants to.

[Owrtho]

Feel free to do so.

Owrtho

[FlamingKobold]

Voting thread is up (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8513894#post8513894)

[Cogwheel]

I was kinda waiting for Gareth to start one. Not sure if we're supposed to do so ourselves. Ah well. Go ahead, I guess? I don't know.

I'll be over here, preparing to get trampled under the masses of superior classes :smalltongue:

[FlamingKobold]

He said he didn't have time and that he didn't want to run a voting thread, so why not just start one?

[Lord_Gareth]

Thank'ee, Kobold, for taking the initiative. You will be a worthy sacrif - I mean, assistant >.>

[Forever Curious]

Hmm...interesting new concept. I shall begin homebrewing immediately!

...oh wait, I have 3 months...

I shall begin eventually!

[IcarusWings]

Hmmm...

I'll have to think hard about this one!

How about a character class that uses writer's block! (could be considered some kind of void).

[arguskos]

We have three months?! :smalleek: Holy freaking hell.

Also way to go Gareth. I give you the Extinguisher, you give me The Void theme. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

Ok, now to get to brewing. Thinkin' something involving shadowcasting, because shadowcasting RAWKS! /metal

Or... maybe a new mechanic... hmm... thoughts, thoughts indeed. :smallamused:

[Hyooz]

I think I'll throw my hat into this one. Probably an entropomancer-esque quasi-caster.

[Vaynor]

Three months does seem a tad excessive. Also, this contest seems very thematically similar to the last contest. However, I shall definitely be participating this time. Now, for an idea!

[Temotei]

Three months does seem a tad excessive. Also, this contest seems very thematically similar to the last contest. However, I shall definitely be participating this time. Now, for an idea!

Agreed on both points.

I'll most likely participate, as three months is enough for me to make three or four base classes, at least.

[arguskos]

Temotei, you need to back up those big words. Produce me three base classes. Gogogo.

Also, I think I've got a half-formed idea. That's enough to start work on. :smallamused:

Alsoalso, a throwaway gut comment provoked a "URDOINITWRONG" reaction enmasse from the Roleplaying area. :smallsigh: This is why I hate weighing in anymore.

[Hyooz]

If it's the topic I think it is, I think you're really just being too sensitive about a throwaway gut comment.

[arguskos]

If it's the topic I think it is, I think you're really just being too sensitive about a throwaway gut comment.
It's annoying is all. *shrugs* Not really hurt over it, but, it's mildly annoying that folk seem to always go "hey, someone's not in agreement, let's nitpick them yay". It's practically an epidemic on this forum for some reason, and happens a lot in a large number of threads. No idea why. :smallconfused:

[Temotei]

It's annoying is all. *shrugs* Not really hurt over it, but, it's mildly annoying that folk seem to always go "hey, someone's not in agreement, let's nitpick them yay". It's practically an epidemic on this forum for some reason, and happens a lot in a large number of threads. No idea why. :smallconfused:

Is that the "Is This Bad?" thread?

I, along with a few others, expressed curiosity more than anything. But yeah, I see what you mean.

Psh. It'll be summer in like...six days. I'll have a ton of free time. Then again, I'm usually not motivated enough. :smallamused:

[arguskos]

Is that the "Is This Bad?" thread?

I, along with a few others, expressed curiosity more than anything. But yeah, I see what you mean.
One poster specifically trigger my response. Honestly, it's been coming for awhile, so I'm just fed up with the concept of "if someone presents an idea/concept/opinion that is not commonly held, let's nitpick and poke and prod them until they change their minds" (see: monk threads, ToB threads, Edition wars, etc). A few specific comments in that thread were in the same vein, and I am having a crappy day. It didn't mix well. :smalltongue:

tl;dr: I'm stupid, ignore me. :smalltongue:


Psh. It'll be summer in like...six days. I'll have a ton of free time.
Haha, that's true. Interestingly enough, I'll be back in classes in about a month, so, go me. :smalltongue:

[Temotei]

Sweet. Zom B has already started.

[arguskos]

Sweet. Zom B has already started.
So I see. :smalleek: Dude's on top of it. Woah.

[Vaynor]

Maybe the August deadline isn't such a bad thing. I have a concept I really like, but it requires me to create an entirely new system of magic. Hmm.

[Forever Curious]

So...I only have one semi-decent idea, but it may not be in accordance to the rules...

The Nobody from Kingdom Hearts. Can I do this? Yes, I noticed the challenge title is a reference to KH as well.

[Zom B]

So I see. :smalleek: Dude's on top of it. Woah.

I've got a big idea and need the time for fruition!

Basically, I'm thinking they get vitae equal to the creature's HD and their powers cost some of it to start and cost it to keep up. Also, I'm thinking of how to do a mechanic where the demon advances in power, too. Eventually, at level 20, you'll be able to pick between Heartless and Embrace. The first is something like a phylactery and something like that Heart of Stone spell where you remove your heart and the demon can no longer affect you. The other, you embrace the demon's influence instead and gain some other stuff from that. It's all kind of hazy right now but it will take shape.

The real challenge will be giving them powers and not making it like a warlock. I'm thinking something between a warlock and a psionicist (with the whole power point system and all).

[IcarusWings]

Do vestiges count as to do with the void? If so then I'll probably end up doing something Binder-esque.

[arguskos]

Do vestiges count as to do with the void? If so then I'll probably end up doing something Binder-esque.
I bet you could spin 'em that way if you tried. Just get some creative fluff rolling and you're golden.

[Sereg]

Well. I didn't do to badly in the last round and with the extra time, maybe I'll do well this time as well. I have an idea. I'll have to play with it a bit before deciding whether or not it's viable though.

[Zom B]

Hmm, maybe I didn't read well enough. My idea for a void was a supernatural and unending hunger. Will that work?

[lesser_minion]

My understanding is that you're allowed a fairly tenuous connection to the theme - last time, as long as there was some connection, it was OK. Unless it was a retarded connection like "light = good".

This time, I suppose "void = evil" isn't going to be received favourably.

[Zom B]

All right, I'm going with it anyway. The only reason the source of power is evil is because it doesn't seem the M.O. of supernatural good creatures to eat away at their host if they are not fed life essence. So the void representation here is the neverending need to fill the self with something or else the demon will eat at them.

[lesser_minion]

All right, I'm going with it anyway. The only reason the source of power is evil is because it doesn't seem the M.O. of supernatural good creatures to eat away at their host if they are not fed life essence. So the void representation here is the neverending need to fill the self with something or else the demon will eat at them.

Well, I was referring more to the possibility of a contestant making a class that's entire schtick is being evil, and then justifying it with the argument that void = evil.

In your case, you should be fine, I think.

As far as voting is concerned, try approval or IRV - both of those at least have a fair shot at allowing people to vote for what they want, as opposed to whatever they think will win.

[Zom B]

All right, I have some preliminary numbers up but they will most likely be adjusted so that they don't cast significantly more or less than a wizard. With the rechargeable spellcasting, I'm a bit worried about that but I like the idea. Then again, the warlock doesn't have to recharge at all.

Does any other "spellcasting" class call their spells incantations? Wasn't sure if that was taken or not.

[lesser_minion]

All right, I have some preliminary numbers up but they will most likely be adjusted so that they don't cast significantly more or less than a wizard. With the rechargeable spellcasting, I'm a bit worried about that but I like the idea. Then again, the warlock doesn't have to recharge at all.

Does any other "spellcasting" class call their spells incantations? Wasn't sure if that was taken or not.

'Incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm)' are a special type of spell that anyone can cast - however, they have various restrictions along the lines of "requires eye of newt" or "caster must dance naked for four hours under the full moon during the winter solstice".

So strictly speaking, the term is taken, although nobody ever uses SRD incantations as far as I'm aware.

[Rauthiss]

Question: Are we allowed to use other homebrew material in our submission? I'm considering something that uses a truenaming fix. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90961&highlight=TrueNaming) Would I need to contact Kellus?

[Vaynor]

Hmm, what does everyone think of relying on multiple casting stats? I have an idea that makes sense for them to use Intelligence to gain "spells," and Charisma to use them. Will this be a big deal or should I just simplify it to Charisma for everything to make it easier on them?

For reference, the class gains "spells" at a slower rate than most casters (30 max) but can cast them indefinitely (they gain spell-slot like things that they can use to cast spells spontaneously, the more powerful the spell the more slots it takes up, and these slots regenerate at a fixed rate per round).

[Temotei]

Hmm, what does everyone think of relying on multiple casting stats? I have an idea that makes sense for them to use Intelligence to gain "spells," and Charisma to use them. Will this be a big deal or should I just simplify it to Charisma for everything to make it easier on them?

For reference, the class gains "spells" at a slower rate than most casters (30 max) but can cast them indefinitely (they gain spell-slot like things that they can use to cast spells spontaneously, the more powerful the spell the more slots it takes up, and these slots regenerate at a fixed rate per round).

A small bit of MAD shouldn't hurt too badly.

[Rauthiss]

Hmm, what does everyone think of relying on multiple casting stats? I have an idea that makes sense for them to use Intelligence to gain "spells," and Charisma to use them. Will this be a big deal or should I just simplify it to Charisma for everything to make it easier on them?

For reference, the class gains "spells" at a slower rate than most casters (30 max) but can cast them indefinitely (they gain spell-slot like things that they can use to cast spells spontaneously, the more powerful the spell the more slots it takes up, and these slots regenerate at a fixed rate per round).

I would say that when looking at classes like the Favored Soul or Spirit Shaman, The choice of having dual casting stats can weaken a class considerably, but still provide for a full caster that is not overpowered.

[Vaynor]

A small bit of MAD shouldn't hurt too badly.

Ok, that's what I figured. They have better HD than wizards/sorcerers, and do get infinite spells anyways (albeit less powerful and you can't cast a bunch of high level spells in a row). Thanks.


I would say that when looking at classes like the Favored Soul or Spirit Shaman, The choice of having dual casting stats can weaken a class considerably, but still provide for a full caster that is not overpowered.

I think I might just wait until I finish the class to decide this. We'll see.


My entry has been posted, not nearly done but there's the basic framework. I still need to finish all of the secrets, the feats, and do a bit more fluff on the Void. Any comments on what I have so far?

[Rauthiss]

My entry has been posted, not nearly done but there's the basic framework. I still need to finish all of the secrets, the feats, and do a bit more fluff on the Void. Any comments on what I have so far?

I'll have to see the secrets to be able to totally judge, but I would like to say that chakras are used radically differently than what you already have in Incarnum. As such, I would suggest you find another term to use.

[arguskos]

Yeah, was going to mention that. Chakra is an already used D&D term, and caused me no end of confusion.

[Vaynor]

I'm aware, but the word was in existence well before MoI, and the word describes exactly what they have. I tried to think of a better word for it, but to no avail.

I haven't been able to start the secrets yet, but I figure I can go ahead and post what I have from an hour or so of brainstorming. These are the kind of things they'll be able to do with secrets (warning, quite a long list, and very much a rough draft):

void plane walking (ethereal)
antimatter
void manipulation
void between minds
void between planes
plane shift
antimagic
new plane: the void
send things/magic to the void
alter reality by sending/calling things from the void
channel void energy
void blast
suck magical energy (remove prepared spells)
create void objects
matter deteriorates in the void, summoned things are wispy and translucent
send memories to the void
send “senses” to the void, temporarily imperceivable
send light to the void (invisibility)
draw costs of magic from the void
send magic from magic items to the void
teleport through the void
air --> void
partially send to void, decay living matter
summon void natural attack
summon void wings
summon void monsters
warp life to create void creatures
time in the void is alterable
-send people to void, curse with age
-age objects
summon void weapons
send aspects of a person to the void (sanity, intelligence, speaking, soul)
send mind to the void (create voidmind creature, complete dominance)
create creatures composed of voidmatter
tentacles from the void
remove own mind from body (mindblank)
remove soul from body (penalties, resurrection upon death after x days/weeks)
summon voidself
create void rift (suck enemies in)
create gravity rift (alter gravity)
summon dead from the void (appearing in reality infuses them with life for a short time)
combine/summon banished elementals from the void (earth + fire = lava, etc)
disentigrate
summon elements from the void (fire earth air water)
walk the void (walk on objects in the void, not reality; lets you walk on air, water, etc but --limited movement speed)
malignant transposition (two targets sent to the void, returned in opposite spots,
--damage)
plant voidseed (opens a portal to the void inside creature after x rounds, damage/death)
send rationality to the void (sends subject into murderous rage)
walk the void (dimension door by walking through the void)
reverse aging (walk backwards through the void, lost penalties keep benefits, lose a
--chakra)
send fear to the void (subject immune to fear)
send calm to the void (subject is afraid)
send strength (fatigued/exhausted)
send specific element to the void
send power to the void (neg levels)
summon void weapons
the ability to create temporary Portable Holes
the ability to acquire the 'voidtouched' template at some point
half-void step (go partially into the void as if ethereal)

[Rauthiss]

Well, I'm ready to be be critiqued, if anybody finds it within themselves to do so. Of course, I'd appreciate it, and would be happy to critique yours in exchange. However, I am NOT especially experienced in D&D Balance, so take any critiques of mine with a grain of salt. (PM or here, your call. :D)

Otherwise, time to kill time for 3 months. Yay~
By which I mean work on my Atheist class for either another submission, an alternate submission, or just to put up after being inspired by this.
Given that I have the time to kill*, I'd like to revisit/mention Temotei's comment on having enough time to put together 3-4 base classes. Are we allowed more than one submission, if we choose to put in the time and effort?

And in a totally unrelated joke (That I almost submitted),

The Void

"Why the hell did I take this class?" -Jack, a void

Want to increase your ECL without the bother of increasing hit points or anything else? The void is for you!

Abilities: The void is devoid of any abilities, so any set of ability scores is equally useful to them.

Role: The void does absolutely nothing but sit there and suck at everything.

Background: Becoming a void is difficult for many, simply because to be a void, one must do nothing.

Organization: No organizations actively employ voids, although some would say that the beaureaucrats of the guild are voids.

Alignment: Voids are not of any specific alignment - anybody can do nothing.

Races: See above

Religion: Atheism. It takes work to worship!

Other Classes: Voids just take up valuable space... Nobody likes them, except fighters, who can use them as practice dummies, and monks, because they know what it's like to be useless.

Adaptation: The void is universal.

Hit Die: d0

Starting Gold: 0


Class Features

Class Skills: The void has no class skills.

Skill Points at First Level: 0
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 0

{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

2nd|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

3rd|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

4th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

5th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

6th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

7th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

8th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

9th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

10th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

11th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

12th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

13th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

14th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

15th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

16th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

17th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

18th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

19th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing

20th|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Nothing[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: None

Remaining class features go here, but the void doesn't have any!

*For now. x_x

[Zom B]

All right, I've done some large amount of work on the Fellheart Disciple, at least enough to where people can see where I'm going with this thing. The big challenge will be to create incantations that touch on existing spells as little as possible.

I have to say that I'm proud of the new mechanic I have in there. Go ahead and learn and cast 9th level "spells" at 3rd level, and see how long you can hold out on will saves before you go killing your friends.