(3.5) Are there any spontaneous Int-based arcane Casters?

[balistafreak]

My question is exactly what the title is.

There are Charisma based spontaneous casters, Wisdom based spontaneous casters, Wisdom based prepared casters...

But I haven't yet seen an Intelligence based spontaneous caster.

For reference, the reason I am looking for an Intelligence-based arcane spontaneous caster is to judiciously use a few feats out of Races of the Dragon to qualify for Mystic Theurge.

My DM is already fine with me "cheating" my way into it with Precocious Apprentice, but if done this way, I can get in at level 4, not 5.

[tyckspoon]

There's the Beguiler from PHB2 if you don't mind working with a limited spell list. In addition to being a pretty good class on its own it's often used for Int-SADness with Wizard in Ultimate Magus builds.

[Pluto]

If you can use Unearthed Arcana's Generic Spellcaster, it can be a fit.

[Optimystik]

They aren't strictly arcane, but Psions and Erudites are int-based and fairly spontaneous as well.

[Draz74]

Also, look at the Assassin Prestige Class. :smallwink:

[hamishspence]

They aren't strictly arcane, but Psions and Erudites are int-based and fairly spontaneous as well.

Hmm- has anyone ever Vance-ified the Psion, and played it as a substitute wizard or sorcerer?

[Greenish]

Hmm- has anyone ever Vance-ified the Psion, and played it as a substitute wizard or sorcerer?Why would anyone want to replace psionics with bullet magic? :smallyuk:

[Pluto]

Do Spell Point Wizard, Spontaneous Divination Wizard or Hathran count?

[Sinfire Titan]

Hmm- has anyone ever Vance-ified the Psion, and played it as a substitute wizard or sorcerer?

No need. Just use Spell to Power Erudite, and you're both the Arcane caster and the party's Psion.

[Vizzerdrix]

I second the UA generic spellcaster.

[Optimystik]

Hmm- has anyone ever Vance-ified the Psion, and played it as a substitute wizard or sorcerer?

Wasn't Pathfinder trying to Vancify them? Did they stick with that?

The powers would require heavy modification to make that work - removing augmentation, making them auto-scale etc.


Why would anyone want to replace psionics with bullet magic? :smallyuk:

Agreed :smallsigh:


No need. Just use Spell to Power Erudite, and you're both the Arcane caster and the party's Psion.

And a magnet for your DM's books :smalltongue:

[Zeta Kai]

No need. Just use Spell to Power Erudite, and you're both the Arcane caster and the party's Psion.

Not to mention a Tier 1 broken-arrow nuke. :smalleek:

[hamishspence]

Why would anyone want to replace psionics with bullet magic? :smallyuk:

Mainly if the core spells seem overpowered, but the players don't like the power point mechanic.

So- by combination- you have spells of the same level of power as Psion powers (because they are converted Psion powers), played like a sorcerer.

[Sinfire Titan]

And a magnet for your DM's books :smalltongue:


Not to mention a Tier 1 broken-arrow nuke. :smalleek:

Right. I really should have included the following Disclaimer:

"Do not play unless you can cast Repel Wood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/repelWood.htm) IRL."

[Vizzerdrix]

Right. I really should have included the following Disclaimer:

"Do not play unless you can cast Repel Wood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/repelWood.htm) IRL."

Or unless you get one of these (http://www.morane-tactical.eu/New%20Folder/round%20shield.jpg)first.


(it's a small riot shield. I want one :smallsmile:)

[Draz74]

Or unless you get one of these (http://www.morane-tactical.eu/New%20Folder/round%20shield.jpg)first.


(it's a small riot shield. I want one :smallsmile:)

Meh, would only increase your AC by 1. :smalltongue:

[Gametime]

It isn't strictly spontaneous, but an Illusionist/Shadowcraft Mage using the Illusion Mastery variant from Unearthed Arcana and the Uncanny Forethought feat from Exemplars of Evil can reserve Int-modified spell slots to spontaneously cast any mastered spells, which includes all Illusion spells, which can in turn be used to mimic any evocation spell and a huge number of Conjuration spells. You can also take a full-round action to cast any spell from these slots, albeit at -2 caster level.

You've got less spontaneity than a strict spontaneous caster, but the sheer variety of spells you can cast (by virtue of having a much larger spells known list) should make you easily more versatile.

[Pechvarry]

Duskblade is also int-based spontaneous casting.

The opposite equation is much harder to fill: I've yet to find a cha-based prepared caster.

[Optimystik]

Duskblade is also int-based spontaneous casting.

The opposite equation is much harder to fill: I've yet to find a cha-based prepared caster.

They all are: use Arcane Preparation :smalltongue:

[Greenish]

Duskblade is also int-based spontaneous casting.

The opposite equation is much harder to fill: I've yet to find a cha-based prepared caster.Core paladin is Cha-partial (and caster-partial).

[Thurbane]

Personally, I have a problem with Beguiler being an INT based caster. It just makes the class ridiculously good compared to its contemporaries - the Warmage and Dread Necromancer. Not only that, they gave it a skill-list any Rogue would be proud of, and 6 skill points per level.

Also, the whole idea of a trickster-type caster who doesn't cast off CHA seems screwy to me, totally counterintuitive.

...as you can probably tell, Beguilers have been a bit problematic in our games. In fact, my group has a blanket ban on anyone taking one for the foreseeable future.

The main issue (for my group) is that most of the group aren't particularly good optimizers, and the Beguiler is just that good out-of-the-box that it doesn't really require much optimization. Sure, the DM can be subtle as a sledgehammer and throw wave after wave of undead on constructs at the Beguiler, but even then he's still got his Solid Fog, Glitterdust, Legion of Sentinels etc.

...yes, I know that my group horrible, horrible people. :smallbiggrin:

[Gametime]

Personally, I have a problem with Beguiler being an INT based caster. It just makes the class ridiculously good compared to its contemporaries - the Warmage and Dread Necromancer. Not only that, they gave it a skill-list any Rogue would be proud of, and 6 skill points per level.

Also, the whole idea of a trickster-type caster who doesn't cast off CHA seems screwy to me, totally counterintuitive.

...as you can probably tell, Beguilers have been a bit problematic in our games. In fact, my group has a blanket ban on anyone taking one for the foreseeable future.

The main issue (for my group) is that most of the group aren't particularly good optimizers, and the Beguiler is just that good out-of-the-box that it doesn't really require much optimization. Sure, the DM can be subtle as a sledgehammer and throw wave after wave of undead on constructs at the Beguiler, but even then he's still got his Solid Fog, Glitterdust, Legion of Sentinels etc.

...yes, I know that my group horrible, horrible people. :smallbiggrin:

Beguilers fall into the ToB range of Tier 3 classes: easy to use well, simple to optimize, and thus a bit overwhelming for low-powered groups. (Compared to, say, the Binder, which can do a truly staggering number of things but is not immediately obvious in its power or role.)

I think giving Beguilers cha-based spellcasting would take them down about a tier, maybe half a tier if your Beguilers already like cha-based stats. They'd lose skills points, but retain synergy with some of their useful skills, and it would certainly fit flavorfully.