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View Full Version : Good/fun melee Prc-s



jpreem
2010-03-04, 02:04 PM
I have been playing in a rather core centered game. And i played Brb2/Fgtr8. Spiked chain tripper.Wanted to play as pure melee-r as possible ( probably because im a masochist). As it is not a optimized group i have had my shine. But now im faced with a conundrum - all melee classes in core seem not so appealing as for taking any more levels in them wont grant me much new abilities or options. And there seems to be a disturbing lack of pure melee PRcs - all of them are for casters ( Archmage), sneaky types - (assassin) or somekind of gish (eldritch knight etc). Only pure melee PRc in core seems to be Dwarven Defender and I am not a Dwarf :D.
What are the good melee classes and PRc-s out of core, that would not seem to frightening to my hmm rather conservative DM. I guess ToB would already be something scary to him :D
By good I do not definetly mean excellent combat performance but fun fluff, interesting combat tehniques etc.
( mainly plaing a meleer for fluff - just like to be the bashing, swingin, stabbing, tripping, kicking, jumping guy - not some robed hippy ( who ofcourse changes the world at his will but whatever :D)

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-04, 02:05 PM
if you want to be evil, Blackguard is a tank-o-matic

Glimbur
2010-03-04, 02:11 PM
Warblade! Or crusader or swordsage, but warblade from the tome of battle seems like it fits your character best.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-04, 02:13 PM
Warblade! Or crusader or swordsage, but warblade from the tome of battle seems like it fits your character best.

he said from core

Volthawk
2010-03-04, 02:16 PM
he said from core



What are the good melee classes and PRc-s out of core, that would not seem to frightening to my hmm rather conservative DM. I guess ToB would already be something scary to him :D

Oh really?:smallamused:

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-04, 02:16 PM
he said from core

Actually he said non-core but no ToB.

I recommend Champion of Gwynharyf(or however its spelled) and Runescarred Berserker as fun, flavorful, and powerful barbarian PrCs. The champion is an exalted pally/barb that gets limited wis casting, so you might want to negotiate with your DM if you dumped it. The berserker carves magic runes into its chest from a nice list, and is also based off wis. It also gives more and greater rage.

And if you think your allies can control you, everyone loves a little frenzy :smallwink:

Also: ninja'd

Sanguine
2010-03-04, 02:17 PM
he said from core

No he didn't



What are the good melee classes and PRc-s out of core, that would not seem to frightening to my hmm rather conservative DM.

Edit: Ninjas there everywhere.:smalleek:

Volthawk
2010-03-04, 02:22 PM
OK, now for actual contribution:smallbiggrin:

Kensai looks kinda cool

Greenish
2010-03-04, 02:23 PM
Actually he said non-core but no ToB.

I recommend Champion of Gwynharyf(or however its spelled) and Runescarred Berserker as fun, flavorful, and powerful barbarian PrCs. The champion is an exalted pally/barb that gets limited wis casting, so you might want to negotiate with your DM if you dumped it. The berserker carves magic runes into its chest from a nice list, and is also based off wis. It also give more and greater rage.

Also: ninja'dHe also mentioned wanting to be as pure melee as possible, which I took to mean "no magic".

Quirp
2010-03-04, 02:24 PM
The Kensai (Complete Warrior) and the Annointed Knight (BoED) are both PrCs that have the "being one with your weapon" fluff. They are not high powered and have relatively easy rules so your DM should allow them. And with AK there is nothing better than getting a talking weapon.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-04, 02:33 PM
He also mentioned wanting to be as pure melee as possible, which I took to mean "no magic".

Unfortunately I know of no PrC that will help with tripping. (apart from getting more STR via stuff like frenzy or Warhulk)

A Runescarred berserker is pretty badass though, and would still fit all the things that he said he wanted. It isn't at all focused on casting.

TheStillWind
2010-03-04, 02:41 PM
Exotic weapon master works with your chain. You can make a flurry with it, get bonuses to trip attacks, or intimidate with your BAB as a modifier and make an opponent shaken for 3 rounds. Combine that with never outnumbered skill trick and Imperious Command from drow of the underdark and you can make all enemies in a wide radius cower for 3 rounds and the check to resist will be huge.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-04, 02:43 PM
May i sugest kensi/ exotic weapon master as your next two.

Kensi adds awsomness two your spiked chain. actualy both play off it. which is nice.

They both add some to your character can do some fun little tricks with EWM.

Eldariel
2010-03-04, 04:22 PM
Horizon Walker is great for a warrior and Dragon Disciple can be decent (provided you have the mini-Sorc/Bard dip and don't take more than 4 levels of DD). In fact, one of my favorite core melee builds is Fighter 2 (or Ranger 1/Fighter 1 or even Ranger 2)/Barbarian 12/Sorcerer 2/Dragon Disciple 2.


Out-of-Core, things get...a bit better. While unfortunately all the best ones are ToB, CWar has few interesting ones. Bear Warrior and Frenzied Berserker are both solid, and Dervish isn't absolute garbage. Exotic Weapon Master has its uses but beyond that, things aren't very impressive.

3.0 has some more decent ones (although they tend to be riddled with sick prerequisites) like Weapon Master, Master of the Chain and so on. And yeah, Spiked Chain? Get at least one level of EWM for Flurry of Blows.

Thurbane
2010-03-04, 04:27 PM
I'm going to get howled down, but two I really like are the Tactical Soldier (MH) and Dragon Lord (DM). They're both pretty easy for any core melee type to get into. Tactical Soldier is about getting some new options in combat that aren't directly available through feats (though the relative worth of these abilities is hotly debated), while the Dragon Lord is about being a leader and giving buffs to your allies.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-04, 04:29 PM
I'm going to get howled down, but two I really like are the Tactical Soldier (MH) and Dragon Lord (DM). They're both pretty easy for any core melee type to get into. Tactical Soldier is about getting some new options in combat that aren't directly available through feats (though the relative worth of these abilities is hotly debated), while the Dragon Lord is about being a leader and giving buffs to your allies.


I <3 dragon lord...
even on my Dragon shaman builds

Greenish
2010-03-04, 04:37 PM
I'm going to get howled down, but two I really like are the Tactical Soldier (MH) and Dragon Lord (DM). They're both pretty easy for any core melee type to get into. Tactical Soldier is about getting some new options in combat that aren't directly available through feats (though the relative worth of these abilities is hotly debated), while the Dragon Lord is about being a leader and giving buffs to your allies.Tactical Soldier's seems to be pretty snug fit with OP's description of what he looked for (low optimization game, full martial guy, more combat options and so forth).

BUT IT'S LOW POWER AND DOESN'T GIVE CASTER LEVELS ARRRRGGGHHH!111!!!1!11!11

herrhauptmann
2010-03-04, 05:56 PM
Horizon walker, (6 levels can get you a dimension door)
Exotic Weapon master,
Devoted Defender from Sword and Fist. Never updated, so still valid.
Knight Protector of Ancient Kingdom (or whatever it's called), also in Sword and Fist, but has been updated somewhere.
Hellreaver has no casting, but does have some smiting and supernatural abilities.

CTLC
2010-03-04, 07:25 PM
take one level of vassal of bahamut, armor much?

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-04, 08:34 PM
Note: Kensai, while very interesting, requires a lawful alignment. You'd lose your ability to rage which is probably not a good thing. I'm going to make a weird suggestion now and say Beast Master from CAd. Very flavorful, full BAB and you get animal companions. Animal Lord, also CAd, could be fun too. Though with only 2 levels of barb you might not really be going in the direction these call for skill wise.

Karoht
2010-03-04, 08:36 PM
Monk + Vow of Poverty + Druid is pretty darned awesome. The question is more or less how much monk. 6 monk and X Druid is pretty cool if you want more melee focus. Get Wild spell, you can cast spells in shapeshift form. Kung Fu Panda (no really) for the win. I'm currently rocking out a 12 monk + 6 Druid with VoP who so far the DM has yet to be able to harm without resorting to spellcasting or severe amounts of DM cheese.
More fun, less game breaking. Scary high AC, Gobs of hit points, some great damage capacity if you know how to use what is available to you. And super awesome grappling abilities too.

In fact, having pounce from Druid and VoP really solves lots of Monk's problems.

Eldariel
2010-03-04, 08:38 PM
Monk + Vow of Poverty + Druid is pretty darned awesome. The question is more or less how much monk. 6 monk and X Druid is pretty cool if you want more melee focus. Get Wild spell, you can cast spells in shapeshift form. Kung Fu Panda (no really) for the win. I'm currently rocking out a 12 monk + 6 Druid with VoP who so far the DM has yet to be able to harm without resorting to spellcasting or severe amounts of DM cheese.
More fun, less game breaking. Scary high AC, Gobs of hit points, some great damage capacity if you know how to use what is available to you. And super awesome grappling abilities too.

In fact, having pounce from Druid and VoP really solves lots of Monk's problems.

Generally this is best as Monk 1/Druid 19. You get Wisdom to AC and all the good stuff. Of course, it still comes down to Druid making up for the deficiencies of VoP. But in games without access to magic items you want, VoP's value really skyrockets. Druid is one of the very few classes capable of utilizing it (though then they need the mentioned Monk-dip to pick up Wis to AC). But this is a tad off-topic.

herrhauptmann
2010-03-04, 08:45 PM
Monk + Vow of Poverty + Druid is pretty darned awesome. The question is more or less how much monk. 6 monk and X Druid is pretty cool if you want more melee focus. Get Wild spell, you can cast spells in shapeshift form. Kung Fu Panda (no really) for the win. I'm currently rocking out a 12 monk + 6 Druid with VoP who so far the DM has yet to be able to harm without resorting to spellcasting or severe amounts of DM cheese.
More fun, less game breaking. Scary high AC, Gobs of hit points, some great damage capacity if you know how to use what is available to you. And super awesome grappling abilities too.

In fact, having pounce from Druid and VoP really solves lots of Monk's problems.

The OP doesn't want to be a caster, or to make a new character. Is looking for PrC's

Scorpions__
2010-03-04, 08:52 PM
Have you looked into Magic of Incarnum?

Totemist and Incarnum Blade may be classes you'd be interested in. They're both classes that are meant to be played in the thick of melee.





DM[F]R

Iku Rex
2010-03-04, 08:56 PM
What are your feats?
Ability scores?
Race?

Books available?

Are you dead set on no casting whatsoever, no matter what?

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-04, 11:01 PM
Have you looked into Magic of Incarnum?

Totemist and Incarnum Blade may be classes you'd be interested in. They're both classes that are meant to be played in the thick of melee.





DM[F]R

+1 to incarnum blade. I can't believe I forgot that one :smalltongue:

Pluto
2010-03-04, 11:06 PM
If you have Charisma, I'd second Hellreaver (Fiendish Codex 2).

If not, Bear Warrior from Complete Warrior lets you get so angry you become a bear.
Yeah.

I'm also a fan of Races of Faerun's Warrior Skald.
It's setting-specific and 3.0, but it turns you into a pretty neat Warrior-bard, if that appeals to you.

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-04, 11:09 PM
If you have Charisma, I'd second Hellreaver (Fiendish Codex 2).

If not, Bear Warrior from Complete Warrior lets you get so angry you become a bear.
Yeah.

I'm also a fan of Races of Faerun's Warrior Skald.
It's setting-specific and 3.0, but it turns you into a pretty neat Warrior-bard, if that appeals to you.

+1 to hellreaver, it is yet another example of everything a paladin should have been, alongside the ordained champion.

herrhauptmann
2010-03-04, 11:30 PM
Only pure melee PRc in core seems to be Dwarven Defender and I am not a Dwarf :D.

You can get into dwarf, gnome, or goliath only prestige classes by taking 3 levels in Stoneblessed. So, a halfogre fighter, stoneblessed, dwarvendefender (who changes to chaotic after a few levels), warhulk is allowed.
There's also the Paragon Races from Unearthed Arcana. They don't mess with your ability to multiclass, and have decent effects (in my opinion).
Great Rift defender (unapproachable east) is better than dwarven defender, but more limited.
The general opinion here is that dwarven defender is weak and ineffective. Worse even than monk.
For that matter, have you considered monk, if only to boost your saves (base ref and will are probably terrible)

jpreem
2010-03-05, 05:28 AM
You can get into dwarf, gnome, or goliath only prestige classes by taking 3 levels in Stoneblessed. So, a halfogre fighter, stoneblessed, dwarvendefender (who changes to chaotic after a few levels), warhulk is allowed.
There's also the Paragon Races from Unearthed Arcana. They don't mess with your ability to multiclass, and have decent effects (in my opinion).
Great Rift defender (unapproachable east) is better than dwarven defender, but more limited.
The general opinion here is that dwarven defender is weak and ineffective. Worse even than monk.
For that matter, have you considered monk, if only to boost your saves (base ref and will are probably terrible)

I have considered monk (mainly to get a decent will save)but alas monk and barbarian dont mix that well - one kinda needs to be chaotic and other one lawful. ( Well maybe i can bug my DM to play a chaotic monk). Also except for will save and maybe some monk feats and unarmed strike I woulndt gain too much - already have improved trip. Flurry wouldnt work with my standard weapon of choiche, i would be using armor ( esp. because i have a wisdom of 10), stunning fist ( see previous). So probably monnk wouldnt be so good idea. Maybe if i have had started as a monk fgthr combo and adjusted my stats a bit differently - but what is done is done.
Exotic weapon master really sounds good. I havent ever heard about a class callded tactical soldier - sounds interesting though.

jpreem
2010-03-05, 05:34 AM
For that matter I give some additional information of build.'
Race
human
Classes brb2/fgthr 8
Stats.
str 20
dex 15
con 15
int 15 - needed to be to get Combat expertise/improved trip
wis 10
cha 8

Feats
ewp spiked chain
combat reflexes
combat expertise
improved trip ( well a tree to trip and trip again)
power attack
cleave
great cleave (might have chosen some other tree but if im already high str and swingin around a two handed reach weapon then what the heck)
improved initiative
iron will - (abysmal will save)
lightning reflexes (could have been something else aslo like blindfight, but ref save for a meleer is not so good either)

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-05, 08:41 AM
Ya i would go exotic weapon master i think all you need now is some skill ranks in craft weapon if i remember correctly.

Kilmrak
2010-03-05, 09:55 AM
sorry I know Im not contributing to the thread but I read in the earlier replies about a rune-scarred berserker and I was wondering from what book its in.

Person_Man
2010-03-05, 10:00 AM
For me, fun is about having options and doing cool things. So that means full casters, psionics, maneuvers, vestiges, or incarnum. There are a few odd ducks that are not in one of the big 5 categories but still have interesting things to do (Knight, Factotum). But for the most part, prestige classes that don't progress one of the big 5 are one trick ponies. And no matter how awesome that one trick is, it gets boring after your fifth or sixth battle doing the same thing (if not sooner). So my suggestion is that you pick one of the following: Cleric 20, Druid 20, Psychic Warrior 20, any Tome of Battle class 20, Binder 20, or Totemist 20. (There are many other good options as well - Incarnate, Wizard/Gish, etc. But they tend to be more complex). Don't bother trying to screw around with some combo, especially if your gaming group is mostly core-ish.

Eldariel
2010-03-05, 10:01 AM
sorry I know Im not contributing to the thread but I read in the earlier replies about a rune-scarred berserker and I was wondering from what book its in.

Unapproachable East.

Greenish
2010-03-05, 11:04 AM
The general opinion here is that dwarven defender is weak and ineffective. Worse even than monk.Dwarven Defender is good at what it does. What it does is to stand somewhere and not move. It's basically a Wall of Stone that only occupies 5x5 square and can be tumbled through or jumped over.

Also, three feats entrance fee.

The Glyphstone
2010-03-05, 11:17 AM
I vote for Bear Warrior. More Barbarian levels would help, but it's still a class that lets you get so angry you transform into a grizzly bear to eat people. Without magic.

herrhauptmann
2010-03-05, 11:48 AM
I'm wondering, have you actually gotten any use out of great cleave in your game?
Check out the feat Vae School in Drow of the Underdark. Needs the imp trip, and proficiency in chain or whip, and gets a free trip once per round when you make a sneak attack. So requires a level of rogue, ninja or scout.

Beyond that, standstill, knockdown, knockback. All useful for lockdown builds. And martial study, something of blades, will halt all enemy movement near you.

Greenish
2010-03-05, 12:19 PM
Beyond that, standstill, knockdown, knockback. All useful for lockdown builds. And martial study, something of blades, will halt all enemy movement near you.Thicket of Blades, requires two feats to pick up a maneuver first. He did specify against ToB, which is a shame.

jpreem
2010-03-05, 12:56 PM
Thicket of Blades, requires two feats to pick up a maneuver first. He did specify against ToB, which is a shame.

It really IS a shame :D its kinda The Book if you wanna be a melee dude and have some other options than just hit things with powerattack. Maybe I can persuade my DM for martial study feat, cause taking an adept class would probably be too much for him :D

Ormagoden
2010-03-05, 01:01 PM
If not, Bear Warrior from Complete Warrior lets you get so angry you become a bear.
Yeah.


Did somebody say bear warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140757)?

jpreem
2010-03-08, 01:24 PM
I'm wondering, have you actually gotten any use out of great cleave in your game?
Check out the feat Vae School in Drow of the Underdark. Needs the imp trip, and proficiency in chain or whip, and gets a free trip once per round when you make a sneak attack. So requires a level of rogue, ninja or scout.

Beyond that, standstill, knockdown, knockback. All useful for lockdown builds. And martial study, something of blades, will halt all enemy movement near you.

I actually have had use of great cleave in game. I was able to drop three mooks in a round because I had already weakened them with attacks of opportunity. Maybe I can use it also after some area of effect spell that has left a bunch of monsters weakened (hp wise)
Otherwise yes the cleave tree will probably work only on a bunch of really squishy enemies :D. In that case at least it might help to save the time and trouble (or even worse spell slots) for other players to deal with lots and lots of little buggers.

Thurbane
2010-03-08, 08:19 PM
My 2 coppers on Cleave/Great Cleave:

Cleave often gets questioned as a worthwhile feat on various forums - from my perspective, I have to say it gets a bucketload of use in all the games I have been involved in, from low levels right through to mid levels (to be fair, most of our games have capped off at around 13th level so far). A foe getting dropped in combat and another foe being within reach seems to be a constant in our games, especially with high Power Attack/high critical (x3 or x4) multipliers.

Great Cleave not so much, but it still has a place. A lot of people assume there will be limited mook fights at higher levels, or that mooks will be neatly cleaned up by area effects, but this depends heavily on play style and party composition. While I never seen it get anywhere near the use that plain Cleave gets, it is something that can be useful if A.) you still find yourself in mook fights at higher levels and B.) your area blasting resources are limited/nonexistant.

Amphetryon
2010-03-08, 08:34 PM
Just for a fun option not yet listed - unless there are ninjas currently at work -Consider Complete Adventurer's Streetfighter.

Wings of Peace
2010-03-08, 09:16 PM
BLACK BLOOD CULTIST :smallcool: