Idea-mining in FFVII

[Another_Poet]

Hi everyone. I am working on the broad outlines of a campaign setting partly inspired by FFVII. A couple of things to clarify first:


I am not actually trying to make Final Fantasy VII D&D. The setting is inspired by the game, not a clone of the game.
I'm familiar with FFX D20, as well as the 100-page all-FF pdf done by fellow playgrounders. I've also seen the ZODIAC system. These are all cool systems, but none are FFVII specific and I don't think they cover what I want.
I believe that many elements of RPG video games do not translate well to tabletop, so I understand that a lot will be different. Again, not trying to clone FFVII on tabletop.


So on to my questions. First of all, about two years ago there was a lengthy thread on these forums talking about how to best use a FFVII "materia slot" system for spell casting. Many people were of the opinion that it simply doesn't translate to D&D well, but there were a variety of interesting attempts at mechanics for it. I've done multiple forum searches & google searches and can't find that thread (I fear it has been archived or deleted) - but any chance that someone here has a link? Or saved it?

Note: I'm not talking about this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142907&highlight=materia), which has a cool idea but really doesn't fit FFVII very well. (It's more about making augment crystals for standard D&D spells & weapons).

Secondly, in case the thread cannot be found/no longer exists - how would you write a mechanic for a "materia stone/weapon slot" system of casting? Assume this is the only method of casting available in the setting.

[Nero24200]

I don't have a link but here's how I'd probably approach it.

I would use a spell point (or power point system ala Psionics) and simply make it that you have no spells known. Power points would be gained like hit points I.E each class would grant a set amount per level (though I'd probably make it an unrandom number, as opposed to hit dice which is determiend by dice roll).

"Slots" would be determined in a few ways. It could be that you, as the character, have slots, and the number increases with level. Or that magic-casting classes are the only classes to grant slots or some such. Personlly, I might say that characters automatically have slots.

And lastly I'd have that you automatically "know" a spell if you have a slot filled up with materia. To compenstate for likely few slots I'd have materia grant a line of spells (for instance, Fire materia might grant 9 fire spells in total, one for each level of magic).

Incidently, being able to use the higher level spells would be class granted as well.

[erikun]

Well, my first thought for Materia Stones is to set them up similar to Cleric Domains. That is to say, each Materia Stone has 9 related spells, one for each spell level. Equipping the stone gives you access to those spells.

Secondly, I would remove level caps and make all spell DCs equal to 10 + 1/2 caster level + ability modifier. It would help by making lower-level spells more useful for characters that either don't have many Materia Stones or don't have high enough ability scores to cast the higher spells. Although that's just me.

The big question is how to deal with spellcasting. Casting directly from the stone - that is, allowing a character to cast each spell in a stone once per day - would just encourage PCs to carry around cartloads of Materia for extra spells. That seems to go against the point. Giving players spell slots based on class, with the Materia Stones providing the spell lists, could work. Wizards are still extremely powerful if they can get their hands on the right stones, Bards can be amazingly versatile, but Fighters still don't have any toys to play with.

Another option is to give everyone spell slots. Treat all classes as a Divine Generic Spellcaster, who gets spells/day based on level and always ignores spell failure in armor. Obvious, this obsoletes the Wizard/Cleric/Sorcerer, unless they get additional spell slots this way.

For spellcasting stats? My first thought is "INT for the number of stones you can use, WIS for your max spell level, CHA for your DC modifier." It will be somewhat difficult to keep all three stats relevant when you only have one spellcasting method, and while I don't want to encourage further MAD in classes, I don't want all spellcasters to be gorgeous diplomats or genius bookworms.

[DracoDei]

Are you just doing the materia system, or are you interested in using other aspects? Someone did all the Limit-breaks/Over-drives/etc in every Final Fantasy game ever made in one thread I think, and there are multiple base and prestige classes based around the "Jump" technique.


My first thought is "INT for the number of stones you can use, WIS for your max spell level, CHA for your DC modifier." It will be somewhat difficult to keep all three stats relevant when you only have one spellcasting method, and while I don't want to encourage further MAD in classes, I don't want all spellcasters to be gorgeous diplomats or genius bookworms.

If you don't like MAD, then just say they get to pick any mental ability score at 1st character level to be their casting stat. If that is too SAD, maybe say that they pick the associated mental ability score for each of the three factors above, but must use at least two separate ability scores.

[Xallace]

Well, why not base the abilities of the materia off of the materia and the character, rather than just the character? Materia in FF7 grows as you use it, so I'd think you could do something similar.

As you use it, the Materia gains a form of experience - X points per cast, kinda like job abilities in Final Fantasy Tactics - and once you reach enough Materia XP, the materia gains a level. Let's say the materia can't be of a higher level than you, too, so that you don't just cast it all willy-nilly and end up with a level 1 fighter with Level 9 materia after a week.

As you level the materia, it gains new spells, and an increase in DC. We could say that the DC is 10 + something similar to the cleric's BAB progression, so it doesn't matter if you have Int 2 or 20- because you've spent so much time practicing with that little rock, it's got a decent save DC.

Edit: As for the slots, FFVII had them based on the weapons and armor you wielded... I've never been a fan of "equipment intensive" systems, and having to lug around a bunch of rocks to cast spells is "equipment intensive" enough for me, thank you. So, we'll take a bit of the Final Fantasy: Advent Children approach and absorb the suckers into your body.

So, why not make it Con-based, if that's the case? We'll say you can have a number of materia stored in your system equal to your Con modifier (minimum 1).

I'd make the materia spells into tiers, ala Warlock invocations, as well. FFVII had them come in levels, I figure it's close enough. While we're thinking about warlocks, however, I'd also like to say that perhaps you can gain "Materia Shapes and Essences" as you level up...

OK, take for instance, a Fire materia. At 1st level (least) we can deal 2d6 points of fire damage as a ranged touch attack, with a Reflex Save or catch on fire.

Let's say that at 6th level, we get Fire 2 (lesser), which is the same except for 4d6 points of damage. At 12th, we could say Fire 3 (Greater), for 6d6 poins of damage, and and at 18th we get Fire 4 (Legendary), for 8d6 points of damage.

Better idea than I had, and it fits the original system more: The blue materia - support, if I recall, can be used to modify your green (magic) materia. Blue materia counts against your limit, but you can do things with it like change the shape of your spells (so from ranged touch to 60-foot cone, or add the effect to a weapon attack). You have to link a blue materia to a single other materia for it to work.

And, I guess we'll say a spell-point system of sorts, just because it's traditional FF.

[Eldonauran]

1) Create a 'class' for the Materia (generally 10 levels. The tenth level spawning a new level 1 materia) I like the idea of 'domain-like' spells but this can range from supernatural abilities that need to be actived, spell-like abilities, extraordinary abilities, etc, etc. The more powerful materia gain abilities every few levels rather than every level.

2) Create a feat that grants you the ability to use materia and adds a new skill to your class list that you must place ranks in to use higher level materia powers.

3) Allow the materia to gain experience at a rate similar to a cohort or as low as 1/2 the character's rank. Or, allow the character to infuse some of his experience into the materia instead but put a limit on it so it can't be exploited.

4) Make the powers (if spell-like) usuable a limited number of times. This can be increased by leveling the materia up though I recommend no more than once per encounter at level 10 (mastered). Continuous effects or supernatural abilities should provide little to no effect until a few levels are gained or the price of the materia should be higher than normal.

5) Most importantly of all, LIMIT THE NUMBER OF MATERIA THAT CAN BE USED AT ONCE!!! Either determine a max number that can be used at any given level or better yet, require materia to take up an item slot for each equipped. I think Blue (support) materia should not take up an item slot but should definately count against your total.

6) We already have augment crystals. Limit materia that can be attached to armor or weapons to ONE and these should only be materia that directly affect the armor (for defense, resistances, etc) or the weapon (attack bonus, damage, etc)


I think that is all I have at the moment. I'll add more if I get any more ideas.

[Another_Poet]

Great ideas guys. I think that having a L. 1-9 chain of spells in each materia, unlocked by leveling the materia, is a great idea.

This will be the only method of casting magic in this game so no worries about conflict with existing spellcasting classes. Materia will be limited by the number of slots on your weapon or armour. No more slots, no more materia.

I do intend to use some other aspects of the world too. Certainly a magitech world with a wide disparity between the have's and have-not's.

I have to say I am starting to ponder materia granting 4e style powers. That could either be instead of spells or just have it be a different type of materia, skill materia essentially.

I am open to more ideas & suggestions if you've got them.