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View Full Version : Stealth, charges and leopards.



Greenish
2010-03-04, 03:57 PM
I'm trying to make something like this:
Whisper Gnome riding a feline; seems pretty doable and actually surprisingly rational. Silent pounce, nobody knows what happened except someone vanished, rince and repeat.The system is 3.5. So far, I've thought of Rogue1/Barb1/Swordsage2/x1(-2)/AssassinX, or something similar. The point is to charge and get sneak attacks (while flanking with your mount via Island of Blades if necessary), then retreat (somehow). Mount comes fromWild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), which lets you pick a leopard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/leopard.htm) at 7th level.

Now, some questions:

Can I get Travel Devotion for my kitten? What feats can you give to animal companions and the like in general?

Can you Tumble while mounted?

Can you teach your mount to Tumble?

Do enemies get an AoO to both you and your mount each if you ride away from them (assuming they get more than one AoO)?


Any other comments on how to achieve sneaky mounted pounces this are welcome too. :smallcool:

Yora
2010-03-04, 04:02 PM
Animal companions can learn all feats for which they meet the requirements.

And I'm sure you can't tumble while mounted. But your mount could tumble, using it's own skill modifier.

Greenish
2010-03-04, 04:18 PM
Animal companions can learn all feats for which they meet the requirements.Sweet, though 1/day means I'll have to have other tricks too.

And I'm sure you can't tumble while mounted. But your mount could tumble, using it's own skill modifier.Hmm, so if the mount tumbles, do you still eat an AoO?

Soranar
2010-03-05, 09:59 PM
Why would you need travel devotion if your leopard has pounce naturally?

I would also recommend a paladin's mount or a familiar instead of wild cohort.

First they share spells (say invisibility, silence)
2nd they're much easier to handle (no need for handle animal) and have better saves

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-05, 10:07 PM
Why would you need travel devotion if your leopard has pounce naturally?



I suppose travel devotion is to make a pseudo-spring attack

Full round action Pounce
Swift action; retreat using travel devotion

faceroll
2010-03-05, 10:31 PM
how does an animal devote itself to travel?

Greenish
2010-03-06, 11:50 AM
Why would you need travel devotion if your leopard has pounce naturally?

I would also recommend a paladin's mount or a familiar instead of wild cohort.

First they share spells (say invisibility, silence)
2nd they're much easier to handle (no need for handle animal) and have better savesPaladin mount or familiar needs levels in classes I don't have and wasn't planning to take. If you have ideas on how to make a build that utilizes either with stealth, pouncing and so forth, I'd love to hear them.

: You don't need Handle Animal for riding it in combat, and for non-combat stuff you can take 20. In combat, you can ride a wartrained animal with free action ride check.

Travel Devotion, indeed, is there to get away once you've pounced.
how does an animal devote itself to travel?By taking the feat. :smallcool:

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-06, 11:54 AM
how does an animal devote itself to travel?

This particular Leopard comes from a subspecies that has largely abandoned the idea of holding specific territory and hoping prey stumbles by, and has instead taking to following the migratory paths of it's natural prey.

There you go.

In it's primative Kitty Brain, it is devoted to Travel because it is, and has always been the secret to keeping a full Kitty Belly, and is now seen as a good thing and an end, in and of itself.

Frosty
2010-03-06, 12:42 PM
I always thought that Wild Cohort requires a Move action to use Handle Animal on? This makes it impossible for you to do your own full-attacks?

NEO|Phyte
2010-03-06, 12:45 PM
I always thought that Wild Cohort requires a Move action to use Handle Animal on? This makes it impossible for you to do your own full-attacks?

Only for the first round, you don't HAVE to specify an enemy for the Attack command.

DragoonWraith
2010-03-06, 12:56 PM
Give the leopard Martial Study (Sudden Leap) so it can swift-action-jump away? Seems fitting and I imagine they have decent Jump modifiers.

Ugh, wait, Sudden Leap is one of those ridiculously stupid 1st level maneuvers with a pre-requisite. So dumb...

Soranar
2010-03-06, 01:25 PM
btw, I think you can only pounce when you're moving on foot, not riding an animal

my sneaky charger build uses craven + lance to avoid that problem

John Campbell
2010-03-06, 01:30 PM
Ride-By Attack seems like an obvious solution here.

Soranar
2010-03-06, 01:42 PM
Ride-By Attack seems like an obvious solution here.

still only allows 1 attack as far as I know

John Campbell
2010-03-06, 03:31 PM
still only allows 1 attack as far as I know

The feat description doesn't say that.


When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.
I see no reason to believe that if you get multiple attacks on a standard charge, you don't get them with Ride-By.

Of course, the feat is broken anyway ("doesn't work" broken, not "overpowered" broken), but that's about par for the course with mounted combat. WotC was unable to remember from one page to the next how mounted combat works, and doesn't appear to have ever even considered that you might be riding a mount that isn't a bog-standard warhorse. Even though there are non-horse mounts in the PHB equipment list, and there's a core class that gets an enhanced mount as a basic class feature.

(Specifically, the rider does not use the charge action in a mounted charge. The charge action is the mount's, and the rider is just... along for the ride. The rider can use his actions for other things, takes the penalties of a charge, and has the option of attacking at the end of the charge and gaining the benefits.)