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Darwin
2010-03-04, 05:43 PM
As part of a gag in our playing group I'm desperately trying to stat out a deity for "those who really wish they were good at river dancing, but aren't". They deity is supposed to be an Orc in a never ending rage while river dancing like there was no tomorrow. Using Berserker Strength (PHB II) I figured I could make the everlasting rage work as long as I managed to get his max hp below 5 at level 1, problem is that I can't. So here's me hoping you guys can help me out :smallamused:

Current hit points modifiers:
Starting hp: 12
Con 1: -5 hp
Flaw (frail): -1 hp

Current hp: 6

I thought it might help to put the full version of him up:

Ib Steeltoe
Divine Rank: 0
Symbol: A pair of feet dancing in a puddle of water
Home Plane: Material Plane
Portfolio: The frustration of not being very talented at river dancing
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Worshippers: Aspiring river dancers
Cleric Alignments: N, CG, NG, NE, CE
Favored Weapon: Feet
Flufftext to come.

Ib Steeltoe
Barbarian 1
Medium-Size Outsider
Divine Rank: 0
Hit Dice: 1d12-6 (6 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft., Swim 50 ft.
AC: 12 (touch 12, flat-footed 12)
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Attacks: +1 Dancing Feet +8
Damage: 1d6+7
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: DR 10/epic, divine immunities, fire resistance 5, Outsider traits, SR 32, Water Races traits
Saves: Fort -3, Ref +2, Will -1
Abilities: Str 22, Dex, 14, Con 1, Int 6, Wis 9, Charisma 6
Skills: Perform (river dancing) +5
Flaws: Frail
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Skill Focus (perform (river dancing)

Divine Immunities: Acid, cold, electricity, transmutation, draining and ability damage, fatigue, exhaustion and mind effects.

Class and Outsider Abilities
Berserker Strength: Whenever Ibís current hit point total is below 5, his berserker strength automatically activates. He gain a +4 bonus to your Strength score, a +2 bonus on saves, damage reduction 2/ó, and a Ė2 penalty to Ibís AC. The damage reduction granted by berserker strength stacks with any similar kind of damage reduction. There is no limit to the number of times per day Ibís berserker strength can activate. While berserker strength is active, Ib have the same limitation on actions as a barbarian in rage (PH 25). Ib cannot voluntarily end his berserker strength, although he automatically drop out of it while unconscious, helpless, or (most likely) when he receives healing to bring his current hit points above the threshold.


Puh-lease help me make this work :smallbiggrin:

Thefurmonger
2010-03-04, 05:44 PM
Quick get you another -1 and +10 speed to boot.

Darwin
2010-03-04, 05:45 PM
Quick get you another -1 and +10 speed to boot.

Ah yes, but the Quick trait requires a Con score of 4+ :smallfrown:

Xzeno
2010-03-04, 05:46 PM
Getting hurt would be an obvious way to reduce your hit points.:smalltongue:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-03-04, 05:47 PM
Just toss him 1-2 levels of Fighter, or something with fewer hit-points per level than a Barbarian. As a deity, he always gets maximum hit points each level, but, if he's a Barbarian 1/Fighter 3, that's 12+10+10+10-24, or 18 hit points. Which is under 5x his level, meaning the power kicks in.

deuxhero
2010-03-04, 05:47 PM
Can you take flaws more than once?


Get con drained?

Ravens_cry
2010-03-04, 05:47 PM
Getting hurt would be an obvious way to reduce your hit points.:smalltongue:
Yes, but he wants his MAXIMUM hit points to be less.

Xzeno
2010-03-04, 05:50 PM
Yes, but he wants his MAXIMUM hit points to be fewer.

I know, I know. Still, it might be workable: Anyone know of any trick to make damage permanent?

Darwin
2010-03-04, 05:50 PM
The damage solution is my last way out since healing him would bring him out of his rage. I would prefer to have his maximum hit points reduced to 4.

Djinn_In_Tonic: That won't work, the treshold for Berserker Strength is 5 x Barbarian levels. :smallfrown:

With a Con score of 1 any kind of ability drain would outright kill him, that is however a moot point since all deities are immune to ability drain and damage.

herrhauptmann
2010-03-04, 05:52 PM
Make him a half dragon, then get punched by a mid level Vassal of Bahamat?
Dragon wrack is permanent hit point damage.

Jack_Simth
2010-03-04, 06:00 PM
I know, I know. Still, it might be workable: Anyone know of any trick to make damage permanent?

Yes. Book of Vile Darkness - Vile damage doesn't go away without special steps. There's a few spells and stuff in there that do Vile damage.

OldTrees
2010-03-04, 06:06 PM
Legacy Items could help. (I am away from my books)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050701a&page=3
At 7th level a total of -6 hp (just need a one time -1hp left)


The koldbold draconic rites require 1 level of sorceror (1d4-5-1=1hp) and cost 4 single cost hp

Kobold Barbarian 6 / Sorceror 1
6(d12-5-1)+(1d4-5-1=1)-(1+3)rites-(4+2) legacy
6(12-6)+(1)-4-6=27

Barbarian Level x 5 = 6x5 =30

21<25 check.

If the stats must remain an Orc then

Orc (con1) Barbarian 7
7(d12-6)-6= 36

Barbarian Level x 5 = 35

36>35 :smallfrown: almost

Darwin
2010-03-04, 06:15 PM
Legacy Items could help. (I am away from my books)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050701a&page=3
At 7th level a total of -6 hp (just need a one time -1hp left)


The koldbold draconic rites require 1 level of sorceror (1d4-5-1=1hp) and cost 4 single cost hp

Kobold Barbarian 5 / Sorceror 1
5(d12-5-1

It is absolutely essential that Ib remains an Orc. Anyway, as soon as we start giving him levels it will become harder and harder to get below the desired hit point treshold. Because even though he has a -6 penalty to hit points gained he is a deity, which means he will still get another 6 hp per level. The treshold however only goes up by 5 each level. That means that at level 7 he'll have 42 hp and a rage treshold of 35, even further away from what we need. :smalleek:

I guess it could work with the rites and the legacy item together. At level 6 we have -4 from the Bow, -3 from the Ritual, a total amount of hit points equal to 30-7=23, and the treshold for a Barbarian 5/Sorcerer 1 would be 5x5=25.

I would however like a more clean solution, preferably one that can be done at level 1 :smallwink:

EDIT: It cannot be done, the bow requires that you have at least a +2 favored enemy bonus against elves.

OldTrees
2010-03-04, 06:17 PM
Higher levels only work if a weapon of legacy is used.
Even then the ideal levels are 1,6 and 7

Repost
Orc (con1) Barbarian 7
7(d12-6)-6 (legacy item at 7th)= 36

Barbarian Level x 5 = 35

36>35 almost

Blue Paladin
2010-03-04, 06:43 PM
Ah yes, but the Quick trait requires a Con score of 4+ :smallfrown:Take the Quick trait first. Then bring the Con down to 1 (via damage or whatever). Is there a way to make that permanent? Poison or something.

...

Oh. Never mind. Just thought of the perfect solution: age penalties. There you go. Ib qualified for Quick in ye olde days, but nowadays is down to Con 1.

Combine with the Legacy Item thing and that should do it.

Eldonauran
2010-03-04, 06:44 PM
I'm not positive and can't look it up right now due to work restrictions on the web, BUT I seem to recall that the wizard/sorcerer spell Curse (or inflict curse) causes a few weird effects, one of which might be hit point loss.

If that doesn't work, try looking into the Gaes/Quest type of spells.

Who knows, cursed dancing shoes could explain the river dancing...

^_^

Darwin
2010-03-04, 06:45 PM
Take the Quick trait first. Then bring the Con down to 1 (via damage or whatever). Is there a way to make that permanent? Poison or something.

...

Oh. Never mind. Just thought of the perfect solution: age penalties. There you go. Ib qualified for Quick in ye olde days, but nowadays is down to Con 1.

Combine with the Legacy Item thing and that should do it.

I'd think that like feats, traits stop giving you their benefit as soon as you do not fulfill their requirements.



Who knows, cursed dancing shoes could explain the river dancing..

The dancing is all his own doing, it's an endless pursuit for mastery of the skill he desires so much, his frustration (rage) is what keeps him going. :smalltongue:

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-04, 07:13 PM
How many levels in commoner do you not have, again? (Also: Infest him With Chickens.)

Also, replace levels in barbarian with cursed armor slippers of rage dancing? Pink, preferably. Possibly a cursed graft?

Darwin
2010-03-04, 07:23 PM
How many levels in commoner do you not have, again? (Also: Infest him With Chickens.)

Also, replace levels in barbarian with cursed armor slippers of rage dancing? Pink, preferably. Possibly a cursed graft?

As I mentioned in the above post: It's all about the rage. The flavor is that he's angry because he isn't very talented at his art, and that anger is what keeps him going.

I just caught wind of Druidic Avenger (UA). Druidic Avenger has a d8 for hit points, and he gets rage as a barbarian. Question is wheter I can pick up a class features listed under the barbarian chapter for a druid. Can I get an opinion on this? I'm trying to stick to RAW as much as possible here, but it seems like I might be forced into handwaving a bit.

Nate the Snake
2010-03-04, 07:25 PM
Give him a graft. The ones from Magic of Eberron require permanently losing hit points, and some require losing so many that you don't have to dump Con as much. The Stony Plating elemental graft is the cheapest (2800 gp), but if money is no object then some of the others may be easier to justify and/or more appropriate.

Barbarian 1: +12
Con 4: -3
Quick trait: -1
Frail flaw: -1
Stony Plating graft: -4

Total: 3 HP

Fcannon
2010-03-04, 07:26 PM
Some grafts require you to sacrifice 2-4 of your max HP when you have them implanted.

EDIT:argh ninjas

Darwin
2010-03-04, 07:30 PM
@Grafts: YES! This is it, this is absolutely it. Ib has a Stony Plating Graft beneath his feet, to quell the pain of dancing 24 hours a day. Money isn't an issue, he IS a deity after all :smalltongue:

Thanks for that little gem, I've got exactly what I needed :smallbiggrin:

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-04, 07:31 PM
I meant to help here, but instead I have to poke a hole. To take frail you have to have a con score of 4 or higher. :smallfrown: Sorry.

Darwin
2010-03-04, 07:34 PM
I meant to help here, but instead I have to poke a hole. To take frail you have to have a con score of 4 or higher. :smallfrown: Sorry.

Right, can't believe I missed that one. Doesn't matter though, the Stony Plating graft solved all of my problems :smallbiggrin:

Ormur
2010-03-04, 07:40 PM
You loose 2 constitution points if you're resurrected on first level since you have no levels to loose.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-04, 07:42 PM
Use the Pun-Pun trick to relax the restrictions on the ability. :smallamused:

Reynard
2010-03-04, 07:43 PM
Right, can't believe I missed that one. Doesn't matter though, the Stony Plating graft solved all of my problems :smallbiggrin:

So you're not intending to have this guy fight, ever?

He could quite easily be taken out by a 1st level wizard stabbing him with a dagger.

Flickerdart
2010-03-04, 07:45 PM
So you're not intending to have this guy fight, ever?

He could quite easily be taken out by a 1st level wizard stabbing him with a dagger.
Then the Wizard gets his portfolio, which means eternal dancing. Nobody would want to kill him.

Edit: Also, the DR (which should be 10/epic, and fire resistance should be 5, as per 3.5 updates to Deities and Demigods) helps a bit.

taltamir
2010-03-04, 07:51 PM
Then the Wizard gets his portfolio, which means eternal dancing. Nobody would want to kill him.

Edit: Also, the DR (which should be 10/epic, and fire resistance should be 5, as per 3.5 updates to Deities and Demigods) helps a bit.

bun bun will disagree.
you simply need to make someone else (preferably someone you hate) kill him...
EX: dominate your enemy and make him kill this god.

instead of optimizing him to have the least max HP possible, can't you just have him cut himself to lose HP? Doesn't the ability trigger based on your current HP instead of max HP?

Demented
2010-03-04, 08:04 PM
Technically, his portfolio is "the frustration of not being very talented at river dancing". That's far more niche than even eternal dancing.


Getting hurt would be an obvious way to reduce your hit points.:smalltongue:

I see what you did there.
Re: Help me get FEWER hit points

Dr Bwaa
2010-03-04, 08:19 PM
You could take the flaw where natural healing doesn't apply to you and then have somebody beat you down to 0HP. YAY! :smallbiggrin:

taltamir
2010-03-04, 08:24 PM
he doesn't need someone else to beat him... cutting your palm does 1HP of damage automatically and requires no rolls or anything. (blood mage PrC; you don't need the PrC to cut yourself)

Lycanthromancer
2010-03-04, 08:30 PM
he doesn't need someone else to beat him... cutting your palm does 1HP of damage automatically and requires no rolls or anything. (blood mage PrC; you don't need the PrC to cut yourself)Emo, god-of-the-dance?

Zaq
2010-03-04, 09:12 PM
@Grafts: YES! This is it, this is absolutely it. Ib has a Stony Plating Graft beneath his feet, to quell the pain of dancing 24 hours a day. Money isn't an issue, he IS a deity after all :smalltongue:

Thanks for that little gem, I've got exactly what I needed :smallbiggrin:

Also, if you can use UPD to emulate a Kalashtar, you can implant Quori Embedded Shards at a cost of I believe 1 HP apiece. There's no hard limit on how many you can implant, other than your HP and wallet.
Also, it's FEWER HP, not LESS. </wordrage>

Darwin
2010-03-05, 02:19 AM
This guy can't fight: No, he's absolutely terrible, he was never intended to hold his own in a fair fight. He's a dancer, not a warrior

As for the self-mutilation. I don't know... It just feels more right to have a max hp lower than his rage treshold.

Thanks for all the help you guys, I would have been reading books for weeks to find all these solutions on my own. :smallsmile:

2xMachina
2010-03-05, 05:45 AM
Stop him by giving him temp hitpoints :)

taltamir
2010-03-05, 06:17 AM
does he have to be a barbarian? aren't there other classes that get rage with lower HD?

SexyPlantLover
2010-03-05, 10:07 PM
a great set of items for this are in the MIC p202. instruments of the blood gift: when you don any one of the three, it deals one point of damage that cannot be healed in anyway.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-03-05, 10:34 PM
Legacy Items could helpDoes the -hp go away after you lose/destroy the legacy item?


Give him a graftSame question as above but if the graft is removed.

Jack_Simth
2010-03-05, 10:43 PM
Does the -hp go away after you lose/destroy the legacy item?

Same question as above but if the graft is removed.

Err... in order to remove a graft, you have to:

1) Make the person who has it helpless (unless they're willing)
2) Have someone with the appropriate Craft Graft feat remove it.

But if you're killed with the graft, it comes right back as soon as you're raised. But yes, if you successfully remove the graft, the lost HP goes away. They're not magical, though, and will continue to function just fine in an AMF.