Pechvarry
2010-03-04, 06:08 PM
My search fu is weak and I can't get the forums to search for the word "outside" so sorry if this has been discussed to death before.
Wu Jen spell: Body outside body (Complete Arcane). Creates some clones of you for a while. Lots of questions about this spell, though. And thought I'd see how you guys would rule some of this. First, the pertinent part of the spell's wording:
Creates "duplicates of you, all of which share your ability scores, personality, class levels, skills, feats, and memories." They carry mundane versions of your gear and it specifically states "they cannot cast spells or use any spell completion or spell trigger items."
Given all that, 1st issue: they have my feats and class levels. This means they have all of my class features. This means they have spellcasting, they simply cannot cast spells. Right? Ergo, Reserve feats should still behave for my clones, as should Arcane Strike (CW) and so on. They have the spell energy, they just can't cast it.
Or is there something glaring that says otherwise?
2nd issue: those funny class features they get? What if they're martial maneuvers? Do the clones pop out with them fully readied? Or at least, presumably, in the state of your own maneuvers (if you had 2 expended and 2 readied, they'd have the same 2 expended and the same 2 ready to go)?
3rd issue: what about limited use abilities? Let's say I have a 1/day ability. My clones get to use that? Only if that of the original (me) is unused (this last seems very much like a reasonable DM-imposed rule, but I can't make sense of it RAW)?
4th issue: assuming I cast this spell in combat, what's their initiative? This spell doesn't have a 1 round casting time. Thus, assuming it works like a summon creature spell, they should all get actions immediately and act on my initiative. Should they be rolling their own initiative instead?
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To put this into focus: I've been working on a wu jen/warblade/jade phoenix mage build (mystical samurai, flavor-wise). It looks like I can pull off the following:
Start off a fight by creating a few clones. Have them all delay their actions to stagger their initiative (so if I have an initiative of 16, have one act at 15, one at 14, etc) and daisy chain White Raven Tactics (everyone's favorite cheese!) to get me additional actions. Additionally, they'll spend their standard actions using Trickery Devotion (CC). I don't have turn attempts, so only once/day. But that's once/day/clone, so each of my clones has their own mostly-real clone. On future turns, they can wade into the melee stacking Arcane Wrath (from JPM) and Arcane Strike because they have the spell slots to spare. Not to mention the JPM stances that both have the option of expending spell slots for additional benefits. If I can find a way to get Iaijutsu as a class skill, those trickery clones can help feint for additional damage, too. Oh, and I'd probably use Mirror Image occasionally just to keep things funny.
Sooo this is silly: Once per week, a JPM 10 can explode in a ball of fire and reform a few rounds later. Once per week.... per clone? At the end of Body Outside Body's duration, the clones all spend their final action detonating in brilliant balls of fire? Even better if I can get them to cluster up around the BBEG and all make ready actions to explode when the clone with the lowest initiative detonates.
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So I think all of this is fun but it's definitely wrangling the most out of RAW. Any input as to whether or not I should be ashamed of myself for thinking seriously about using this in a future campaign? How would you guys rule this?
Wu Jen spell: Body outside body (Complete Arcane). Creates some clones of you for a while. Lots of questions about this spell, though. And thought I'd see how you guys would rule some of this. First, the pertinent part of the spell's wording:
Creates "duplicates of you, all of which share your ability scores, personality, class levels, skills, feats, and memories." They carry mundane versions of your gear and it specifically states "they cannot cast spells or use any spell completion or spell trigger items."
Given all that, 1st issue: they have my feats and class levels. This means they have all of my class features. This means they have spellcasting, they simply cannot cast spells. Right? Ergo, Reserve feats should still behave for my clones, as should Arcane Strike (CW) and so on. They have the spell energy, they just can't cast it.
Or is there something glaring that says otherwise?
2nd issue: those funny class features they get? What if they're martial maneuvers? Do the clones pop out with them fully readied? Or at least, presumably, in the state of your own maneuvers (if you had 2 expended and 2 readied, they'd have the same 2 expended and the same 2 ready to go)?
3rd issue: what about limited use abilities? Let's say I have a 1/day ability. My clones get to use that? Only if that of the original (me) is unused (this last seems very much like a reasonable DM-imposed rule, but I can't make sense of it RAW)?
4th issue: assuming I cast this spell in combat, what's their initiative? This spell doesn't have a 1 round casting time. Thus, assuming it works like a summon creature spell, they should all get actions immediately and act on my initiative. Should they be rolling their own initiative instead?
---
To put this into focus: I've been working on a wu jen/warblade/jade phoenix mage build (mystical samurai, flavor-wise). It looks like I can pull off the following:
Start off a fight by creating a few clones. Have them all delay their actions to stagger their initiative (so if I have an initiative of 16, have one act at 15, one at 14, etc) and daisy chain White Raven Tactics (everyone's favorite cheese!) to get me additional actions. Additionally, they'll spend their standard actions using Trickery Devotion (CC). I don't have turn attempts, so only once/day. But that's once/day/clone, so each of my clones has their own mostly-real clone. On future turns, they can wade into the melee stacking Arcane Wrath (from JPM) and Arcane Strike because they have the spell slots to spare. Not to mention the JPM stances that both have the option of expending spell slots for additional benefits. If I can find a way to get Iaijutsu as a class skill, those trickery clones can help feint for additional damage, too. Oh, and I'd probably use Mirror Image occasionally just to keep things funny.
Sooo this is silly: Once per week, a JPM 10 can explode in a ball of fire and reform a few rounds later. Once per week.... per clone? At the end of Body Outside Body's duration, the clones all spend their final action detonating in brilliant balls of fire? Even better if I can get them to cluster up around the BBEG and all make ready actions to explode when the clone with the lowest initiative detonates.
----
So I think all of this is fun but it's definitely wrangling the most out of RAW. Any input as to whether or not I should be ashamed of myself for thinking seriously about using this in a future campaign? How would you guys rule this?