the strongest kung fu.

[taltamir]

I am trying to design the best kung fu type fighter that does not produce magical effects or psudeomagic (aka, no unarmed swordsage). He can wear and use magical items that someone else made.

My current plan is straight through barbarian, or maybe monk1/barb19
later on use gauntlets/spiked guantlets and enchant them.

what do you think? is fighter a better choice then barbarian? should I skip the monk1 level and just wear armor (And enjoy the extra bab and HP)?

Is it better to use a spiked gauntlet or non spiked variety?
and should I bother taking improved unarmed strike?

[Ryumaru]

As far as I know, gauntlets don't count for anything like that. They're their own weapon aside from unarmed strike.

As for the ToB, I find that a bit weird; some of them are distinctly not supernatural (extreme concentration, or simply being Damn Strong) to improve their strikes. Stone Dragon I see being -the- Conan/Barbarian style of punching.

Mechanically, I'd probably say Barbarian > Fighter, as there's not really much you can get (if you want, ignore Monk; ToB has the general Superior Unarmed Strike, which will improve your ability to fight unarmed.)

Theme-wise, I imagine Barbarians going through the cliche Hell-regime of training, like heading through forests for their hermit master carrying huge loads. Fighter I imagine to me more the karateka formation training style in large groups, or under a more atypical master.

Even then, remember, a lot of kung fu does involve weaponry...

[Faleldir]

Swordsage has one non-Ex ability, and it can't be used in combat.

[PinkysBrain]

The best barbarian (regardless of how he fights) is a Frenzied Berserker ... so how about :
Human Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Warblade 3/Frenzied Berserker 5/Warblade X

The warblade line doesn't really have magical effects, it's mostly there for Iron Heart Surge so you can get out of frenzy without problems ... just don't pick any manoeuvres you find too weeaboo.

[Eldariel]

I'd say Warblade 20 with Improved + Superior Unarmed Strike; alternatively, start off Monk 2/Barbarian 2/Warblade 16. That's still quite competent, and has Flurry + "Whirling Frenzy" (easily fluffed as "combat focus" or something of the sort). Alternatively, as "I am not left-handed".

Alternatively, Unarmed Swordsage just neglecting the schools with Su abilities (you're left with Setting Sun, Tiger Claw, Diamond Mind, majority of Stone Dragon and few useful Desert Wind and Shadow Hand maneuvers).


If interested, I made a Fighter 20 "Monk" here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=163711). He turned out quite well. But yeah, Monk 2/Barbarian 2 (alignment shift, etc.)/Warblade 16 is prolly your best plan. You get a total of 4 bonus feats over the first levels.

You could also go Warblade 12/Master of the Nine 4 or with Fractional BAB, Warblade 11/Master of the Nine 5. Master of the Nine would give you access to Setting Sun, Zephyr Dance and such. You cover most prerequisites by just taking your natural feats making it a decent option. It ups your versatility tenfold. And goes nice with the plan of being a "Master".

You'll probably want to go for Improved Natural Attack and Empty Hand Mastery for a couple of size increases. You may also want to consider fitting Fist of the Forests in there for some Unarmed Die Increases. For the record, 2d6 becomes 2d10 with two increases. Just saying.

[taltamir]

just don't pick any manoeuvres you find too weeaboo.

that is a really good idea. I can just avoid things like "i punch you with fire".


If interested, I made a Fighter 20 "Monk" here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=163711). He turned out quite well. But yeah, Monk 2/Barbarian 2 (alignment shift, etc.)/Warblade 16 is prolly your best plan. You get a total of 4 bonus feats over the first levels.

thanks, thats pretty cool... I didn't even think about the alignment change. wouldn't that be a problem for monk abilities?

[Eldariel]

thanks, thats pretty cool... I didn't even think about the alignment change. wouldn't that be a problem for monk abilities?

Hardly.

Ex-Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#exMonks):
"A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities."

[Draz74]

You could also go Warblade 12/Master of the Nine 4 or with Fractional BAB, Warblade 11/Master of the Nine 5. Master of the Nine would give you access to Setting Sun, Zephyr Dance and such. You cover most prerequisites by just taking your natural feats making it a decent option. It ups your versatility tenfold. And goes nice with the plan of being a "Master".

As a slight variation on this, I like:

Swordsage 1 / Fighter 1 / Warblade 13 / Master of Nine 5

using Master of Nine bonus Readied Maneuvers all for your Warblade progression. Between your level of Swordsage, Master of Nine, and possibly one Martial Study feat (to add Baffling Defense to your Warblade selection early), you can have a fair amount of Setting Sun selection.

[HunterOfJello]

I'd try to make some sort of unarmed Warblade. The warblade's maneuvers don't use any special mystical powers and are purely based on the character's mastery of his own body and mind.

[AbyssKnight]

I thought an interesting idea would be a Monk 4/ Swashbuckler 3/ Duelist 10/ XXX 3 with Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB 2) so his unarmed strikes can be Piercing weapons.

Depending on how you finish it off, you only lose 1 BAB, add Dex Wis and Int to AC, add Str Int and Precise Strike to damage. You can get magic/special material siangham's to deal with DR and keep all class features.

Not very strong considering the use of Duelist, but its interesting anyway.

[Flickerdart]

Invisible Blade also does the INT to AC trick, so if you can cram Rogue in there to qualify and then take a few levels of that, you get more AC.

[sonofzeal]

+1 for "Unarmed Swordsage with appropriate manuever choices". The only schools that are reliably supernatural are Shadow Hand and Desert Wind, and you have plenty of options out of Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw.

Tashalatora PsiWar can pretend he's non-magical pretty well, though an AMF will seriously mess him up. Inertial Armor and Psionic Lion's Charge make Monks far better, and if you suppress the display then you're alright.

[Pluto]

I played a Drunken Master Warblade that worked out all right.

But Unarmed Swordsage is pretty clearly the cleanest and easiest way to go.

[Human Paragon 3]

If you're interested in getting the best kung fu, you might be interested in my better monk fighting styles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143252). The design goals of the new fighting styles were to give monk a purpose in combat, bring them up to the power of the other core melee classes and make them fun to play (while simulating real world kung fu styles). You can take them up to 6 for the great abilities then switch to barbarian (preferably with the ferocity variant from cityscape)

Note that six levels of monk only lose 1 point of BAB.

[magic9mushroom]

+1 for "Unarmed Swordsage with appropriate manuever choices". The only schools that are reliably supernatural are Shadow Hand and Desert Wind, and you have plenty of options out of Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw.

Tashalatora PsiWar can pretend he's non-magical pretty well, though an AMF will seriously mess him up. Inertial Armor and Psionic Lion's Charge make Monks far better, and if you suppress the display then you're alright.

I endorse this post.