Assassin's Creed 2: The Son of My Enemy is My Friend?

[ondonaflash]

This is something that bothers me about the game. Spoilers will follow, spoilered because they are spoilers.

In the game, Assassins Creed 2, your arch-nemesis is Rodrigo de Borgia, who became Pope Alexander IV. Rodrigo had many children, among them being one Cesare de Borgia. At his father's prompting, and with his father's political assistance, Cesare led an army throughout modern italy, conquering Naples, Forli (Capturing Catarina Sforza and placing her in the Vatican prison in the process), and being declared lord of Romagna and Marche. This is of course mentioned in the game's codex.

What isn't mentioned is the fact that he was best friends with Niccolo Machiavelli, the alleged leader of the Assassins. Furthermore, rumor states that Machiavelli's famous book, The Prince was written about Cesare de Borgia! So, I guess what I want to say is... What's up with that!?

[Brother Oni]

I was under the impression that Machiavelli was just an Assassin, rather than the leader. There's the probability that they didn't know the other was a Templar/Assassin - you don't see Ezio really communicating with the other Assassins in the game, save for his uncle.

There's also the possibility that they knew, but couldn't do anything about it as they were both too well connected (would have made court appearances interesting), or what's recorded in the historical record (and hence your codex) isn't actually what happened.

[Avilan the Grey]

So when is this forum going to expode with the Anti-DRM posts...?

...OOps did I post that? :smalltongue:

Seriously though is this game going to be more interesting than the first one? I tried AC and it just didn't deliver, really. Not enough.

[ondonaflash]

So when is this forum going to expode with the Anti-DRM posts...?

...OOps did I post that? :smalltongue:

Seriously though is this game going to be more interesting than the first one? I tried AC and it just didn't deliver, really. Not enough.

Oh my, it is significantly better than AC 1, there should be plenty to hold your interest, I find knocking bards off of bridges into rivers to be very amusing.

But... But Cesare? Actually, another really fascinating question, is how are the Assassins organized? In Renaissance and modern times? I got the impression that Machiavelli was running the show, but if he's just one of many, first among equals? Maybe he was trying to insinuate himself close to Cesare... That would be a fascinating line to explore.

[AgentPaper]

Ditto on it being much better than the first. It's very similar to the first in a lot of aspects, but they definitely learned what worked and what didn't, and the second is overall much more polished and fun. Whereas with the first I ended up not finishing the game because it was all such a grind, for the second I couldn't stop playing, and after it was over, I wished it wasn't over. I still plan to go back some day and get all the little secret things scattered about. I mean, I could probably just look it all up online, but where's the fun in that? :smalltongue:

[Avilan the Grey]

Ditto on it being much better than the first. It's very similar to the first in a lot of aspects, but they definitely learned what worked and what didn't, and the second is overall much more polished and fun. Whereas with the first I ended up not finishing the game because it was all such a grind, for the second I couldn't stop playing, and after it was over, I wished it wasn't over. I still plan to go back some day and get all the little secret things scattered about. I mean, I could probably just look it all up online, but where's the fun in that? :smalltongue:

Glad to hear it. I will probably play it at my friend's house though :smallbiggrin:

[Brother Oni]

But... But Cesare? Actually, another really fascinating question, is how are the Assassins organized? In Renaissance and modern times?

Modern times, the most obvious way is operating like contemporary terrorist cells, only one point of contact between the different cells so capturing one person wouldn't unravel the entire organisation, working autonomously with many operatives inserted in deep cover, etc.

This contrasts with what we know, as there's Lucy stressing over the loss of multiple teams and Shaun providing intelligence and support for other teams as well. Keeping the Animus up and running is also far beyond the means of a single 3/4 man cell, so there must be additional support and networking between the Assassin teams.

In Renaissance times, I don't really see it progressing much further from Altair's time, with one overall leader (although the Codexes do mention they dispersed from the Mountain). It does look like Giovanni kept his sons in the dark about the exact nature of the family secret though (and with the general life expectancy in Renaissance times, Ezio would be considered more than old enough to inherit the mantle), as while they probably knew or suspected their 'banker' father to be a killer, they probably didn't know he was an Assassin.

[ondonaflash]

Who in the renaissance would be in a strong enough position to organize and control the disparate Assassins? King Charles, or Louis XII... but the idea of someone at the top being the chief Assassin seems weird, I tend to visualize the best Assassins being the middle management, the ones with their fingers on the pulse and their mouths in the rulers' ears. That's why I assumed Machiavelli was the leader, he's in a good position for it.

[Brother Oni]

It's not really controlling the Assassins as more organisation. Bear in mind that all Assassins are united by their Creed - the Codexes mentioned (spoiler) that everybody that comes to them is shown the truth, which breaks many and only some afterwards decide to join the Assassins.


I think we need to distinguish between the different roles in the organisation - you have the management and logisitics role, where they setup safe houses and the like in various locations, providing support etc, for the field agents, the ones who actually go out and kill people, perform surveillance, etc.

Even the field agents can be broken down into active and passive roles, with people like Altair and Ezio doing all the killing and infiltration, while you have undercover operatives, which I assumed Machiavelli would be.

An undercover field agent in the public eye wouldn't be in the best position to co-ordinate day to day activities, but I concede that he might be able to provide the overall strategic view while management Assassins collate and filter reports to pass up to him while disseminating his orders down to the other operatives.

[Hann]

Leonardo da Vinci also traveled with Cesare Borgia in 1502 throughout Italy, acting as his architect and engineer.

[ondonaflash]

Aha! Its a plot! The Assassins are isolating and surrounding Cesare De Borgia! They probably orchestrated his overthrow...

[BRC]

Before Altair, the Assassins were based out of Masayf, and led by a single leader, Al Mualim, there was lots of ritual involved (For example, the removal of the ring finger). Altair eliminated alot of that, made the organization more streamlined and efficient.


I personally imagine that the Assassins are largely decentralized, in order to prevent the Templars from decapitating the entire organization by taking out the leader. There may be an unofficial chain of command in a region, but I don't think there is much in the way of people ordering other people around. It's just "These people are Assassins, they will aide you in whatever way they can", each Assassin pursues their own goals, but they also work together for a common cause. They never say "Ezio, you are a novice assassin" they simply say "Ezio, you are now an assassin, let's teach you some tricks". I get the impression that Assassins who go around and stab people are actually in the minority, most of them simply go for positions of power and influence, and then use that power and influence to aid their cause. I got the impression that Machiavelli was less an official leader as he was a respected member that others looked too for leadership. He could very easily have befriended Borgota in order to spy on and attempt to influence him.


Now, assassins may be part of other organizations that have chains of command. Mario Auditore may order one of his soldiers (Who may or may not knowingly be Assassins, I think they are) around, but it's because he's the commander of a band of mercenaries, not because he's higher ranked in the Assassins.

When Desmond shows up in the Safehouse, none of the three assassins there identify themselves as being the leader. British Guy seems like a coordinator type, but there is no talk of "Reporting this to the Higher Ups" or giving orders.

Considering the Assassins are fighting a conspiracy that has a habit of getting itself into powerful positions within government, this decentralized structure is a very good idea, as it makes them very difficult to eradicate. It also means that each individual assassin is motivated by their knowledge of the Truth. They won't stop fighting because nobody is paying them anymore, or because nobody is giving them orders. Now, breaking up the support network of Assassins does hinder their ability to act, but it won't actually stop them unless each individual assassin is taken down.

After Altair died, there was probably no one person that could be described as the Leader of the Assassins, just a loose network of people united by a common cause.