(3.5) The Famous Noh as a 7th Level PC

[balistafreak]

So I was asked to come up with a character for a friend of mine, and I suddenly was (for no particular reason) reminded of Noh (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Noh). (Warning, some of the pics at bottom of page are decidedly NSFW.)

As unoriginal as always, I decided that THIS would be the basis for the character. Fast forward some years, Noh has "grown" into an adventurer, and is (per the campaign) going to be entering at 7th level.

Problem is, I can't think of a particularly good way to get some very important points across.

Race: While aesthetically human, is there any flavorful reason to reflect Noh's "minor construct" like background?

Class/Abilities: Just what sort of adventurer would a girl with a chain-shirt and rapier be? It is adamant that these two things are kept constant in the character. I've had all sorts of thoughts from a Warblade to Bard.

In the process of developing this character, it is adamant that there is a class-related way to keep the same rapier and chainshirt relevant. What systems exist for upgrading existing weapons, or is there a class that lets one do so?

(Anyone suggesting Soulblade is going to be shot, gutted, hung from a tree, and run over by a Buick. The DM is NOT a merciful one, and the mediocrity of a Soulblade, even alongside other Tier 3-4s, will simply be laughable.)

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Glimbur]

Factotum makes some fluff sense, as she was raised by adventurers and they probably all showed her what they do. As a bonus, they can use chain shirts and rapiers. The minor construct tendencies are harder... mechanically a warforged but appears human? Might be too extreme.

[Greenish]

+1 Factotum or warblade.

Warblade probably works, rapier is one of Diamond Mind weapons. Diamond Mind, White Raven and sprinkles of Stone Dragon might work. Alternatively, Swordsage, Diamond Mind again and maybe Setting Sun so that you can toss your foes around.

Psychic Warrior has an AFC that gives a scaling, bound weapon, and can cover poor AC with their powers. Not that awesome for rapier & light armor though.

[Eldariel]

For upgrading existing weapons, they could be Ancestral Relic [BoED] and Item Familiar [UA]. Both enable self-enhancement of these items for a cost. And a Finesse Warrior, perhaps a Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven (Iono why, but Bard just feels right for her) could work out. Factotum wouldn't be bad either, but I think Warblade for some skill with her Rapier would function better.

[balistafreak]

Factotum seems cool, but it's a little too mish-mash to be truly viable.

I'm not able to check out the Ancestral Relic thing yet, and Item Familiar sounds like... well, a familiar. Which would have a mind of its own, which wasn't quite what I was going for.

The idea is that Noh is the rapier and chain shirt... if that makes any sense at all. Does Ancestral Relic portray that?

It's kind of funny - the flavor of the Soulblade is almost exactly what I want to capture. Unfortunately, the mechanics of the Soulblade make me run in the opposite direction screaming "WHY DO YOU FAIL SO HARD?!?!"

... have I mentioned I hate Soulblades?

And Eldariel, I know what you mean. I was like:

"Sooo, what class would Noh be if she -"

"Bard."

"Eh? Why?"

"She is a bard."

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that she's a hopelessly cute little girl, and therefore we expect her to grow up into something similiar. And our first reaction to "cute girl" is bard, because obviously she has to have 18 Charisma.

... I considered making an extremely risque Charisma joke there, but decided against it.

Diamond Mind Warblade seems really cool, though. I'll keep looking.

[Kylarra]

Why not the infamous Soulknife fix? Soulbound weaponry PsyWar (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).


Soulbound Weapon

You can summon a specific weapon to your hand that is bound to your very soul.
Level: 1st and 2nd.
Replaces: You lose your 2nd-level bonus feat.
Benefit: You must choose a soulbound weapon at 1st level and you gain the Weapon Focus feat with this weapon. Also, the first power you learn must be call weaponry. You can summon your chosen soulbound weapon to your hand using call weaponry.

At 2nd level, you gain the soulbound weaponclass ability, and the weapon you summon using call weaponry is of the same type as you chose at 1st level. Its physical appearance slowly changes, growing in power as you do. You must manifest the power call weaponry to obtain your soulbound weapon; you retain the weapon for the duration of the power. You may still use the call weaponry power as normal if you wish. This is a specific weapon every time you summon it, and it automatically gains a weapon enhancement at the following levels:
4th +1 weapon
8th +2 weapon
12th +3 weapon
16th +4 weapon
20th +5 weapon

Also, add the following augmentation to your call weaponry power:

Augmentation: When you manifest your soulbound weapon, for each additional 5 power points you spend, you may add a weapon enhancement of +1 value to the weapon. For example, if you spend an additional 10 power points, you could add two +1 weapon enhancements or a single +2 weapon enhancement.

[Eldariel]

I'm not able to check out the Ancestral Relic thing yet, and Item Familiar sounds like... well, a familiar. Which would have a mind of its own, which wasn't quite what I was going for.

Familiars are basically shards of your essence given form of their own. You can read more about Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) in particular in here. But yeah, maybe my idea of "familiar" is different from yours, but in my mind it certainly fits.


The idea is that Noh is the rapier and chain shirt... if that makes any sense at all. Does Ancestral Relic portray that?

Well, it depends. The basic functioning of especially Item Familiar does feel pretty appropriate; you can invest all kinds of stuff to the Item Familiar and gain returns for them, there's a huge penalty for it ever being destroyed, you can burn your own experience to enhance it without any sorts of feats, etc.

The "sapience" it gains seems just like the thing that would be right; as it can only communicate with Noh, the Rapier is alive but Noh is its vessel or method through which it can communicate to Noh. And it gains various abilities as you level. I strongly urge you to read the whole part on Item Familiar as I feel you can make it fit really well for the fluff you want.


Ancestral Relic is slightly worse. All you gain is the ability to magically enhance the item by burning your life energy. Oh, and one class you should look at: Kensai from Complete Warrior. It's basically made to bind to a weapon and empower it at leveling.

[balistafreak]

Gained access to everything now.

Ancestral Relic is stupidly underpowered. I burn a feat for the ability to upgrade a single item again and again... and there's even a pretty restrictive limit to how much I can do so. No.

Item Familiar is pretty cool. XP gain? Additional skill bonuses? Super cool. Even better, at exactly level 7, it also gains sapience, alertness, and communication. It can be improved (basically obsoleting Ancestral Relic :/) by expending money and XP.

But then I can only do so with one item. Can't have two item familiars....

... except I basically can, by taking levels of Kensai. Hooooo boy.

Item Familiar a Chain Shirt, then Kensai a Rapier. Sounds good.

... great, now I need to shoehorn Kensai into a Bard/Warblade build. This is not going to be pretty.

[Thurbane]

Awakened Effigy Creature (Human) (CArc)...

[Proven_Paradox]

At the risk of a shameless plug, I am going to shamelessly plug my own Soulknife fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137216), as yes, her -being- the rapier itself lends itself to the Soulknife's flavor well.

Bard makes a lot of sense for her too. A being that was a construct but is suddenly given a mind, a life, a soul, it makes sense that she would go on to investigate this thing called emotion. Having her go on to discover music through this investigation would make a good explanation for her becoming a bard.

If you want to make her more martial, but keep her limited to wearing a chain shirt and wielding a rapier, Swordsage is your best bet. Focus on Diamond Mind certainly. Perhaps some Shadow Hand to reflect something of a dark side? Maybe Desert Wind, reflecting unique powers she gains from being infused with a spirit?

For improving a weapon, the Magic Item Compendium gives rules for improving existing items. It comes down to paying the difference between the weapon's existing enhancement and what it would cost to get the new one. So going from a +1 rapier to a +2 rapier costs 6,000 gp.

Alternatively, if you want the weapon's growth to be more organic than that, you could make it a Weapon of Legacy. The rules for that are given in the Weapons of Legacy book, along with a list of terrible examples. However, if you use the rules given for founding your own legacy, you can conceivably make a pretty powerful weapon out of them. Or, you could just hand-wave either the gold cost or the penalties using a legacy weapon accrues and just use WoL as a guide. Hell, I've got nothing to do tonight, I might write up Noh's Rapier as a legacy weapon if you like.

For race, I don't see anything wrong with just making her human (or insert standard race of your preference). The spiritual investment described there could come with a physical transformation from minor automaton to full-blown person.

[Eldariel]

You could, of course, Weapon of Legacy the Rapier if you don't want to spend class levels on this. Those are connected if kinda meh (they come with severe penalties and binding costs), but they have tons of actual powers so they kinda make sense if that weapon is actually Noh.

And Ancestral Relic isn't so...underpowered; enhancing that item is much cheaper than purchasing it as enhanced and since magic items are just about the strongest thing in D&D, getting effective extra WBL is incredible (same reason crafting is so good). But yeah, it's not the most interesting thing ever.


EDIT: Ninja'd on WoL? What has this world come to.

[Volkov]

Nobz ain't sevenf level ya' grot! Wait, I misread that didn't i?

[Kylarra]

Couldn't you item familiar the chain shirt and just use the soulbound weaponry PsyWar? PsyWar is pretty solidly tier 3 and giving up 2 feats for your own bonded sword isn't going to affect that much.

[balistafreak]

At the risk of a shameless plug, I am going to shamelessly plug my own Soulknife fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137216), as yes, her -being- the rapier itself lends itself to the Soulknife's flavor well.


Couldn't you item familiar the chain shirt and just use the soulbound weaponry PsyWar? PsyWar is pretty solidly tier 3 and giving up 2 feats for your own bonded sword isn't going to affect that much.

As awesome as that Soulknife fix is, I'm afraid it won't meet the DM's adamant rule of "zero homebrew". He is (rightly so) afraid of a homebrew pandemic - let one exception through, and soon NO ONE wants to do anything in the books. And then his brain explodes, because he's not quite good enough to hold that much in his head and run a game at the same time.

As for the Soulbound weaponry Psionic Warrior, I thought about him. It seems cool until you realize that quite frankly you won't have the weapon physically at hand at all times. Okay, well, neither does the Soulknife, but the Soulknife has no opportunity cost for doing so (power points). The Psionic Warrior does, and that feels... bad.

And it looks like Bard levels are not going to fit into the idea. :/ It looks like I'll have to drop that idea. 5 levels of Warblade then 2 of Kensai fills up fast, and walking into the campaign with only 1 level of Kensai (through Bard2/Warblade4, which) is going to feel superbad. She'll be wielding a +1 weapon, which for a 7th level character we all know is terribly, terribly behind. I still feel bad with only a +2 weapon.

However, Kensai might not be necessary if Weapons of Legacy works out. I'm making arrangements to get an eye on the material now, so sit tight. :)


If you want to make her more martial, but keep her limited to wearing a chain shirt and wielding a rapier, Swordsage is your best bet. Focus on Diamond Mind certainly.

Swordsages need Wisdom. Noh's wisdom should be low, to represent her naiveity to the "real world". Okay, that might be me being overtly conformist to the idea I have in my head, but truthfully, with a 32 PB (should have stated this earlier, heh) and MAD it'll be a tight squeeze as it is. I'm going to have to put a 10, or maybe even an 8, somewhere. :/


For improving a weapon, the Magic Item Compendium gives rules for improving existing items. It comes down to paying the difference between the weapon's existing enhancement and what it would cost to get the new one. So going from a +1 rapier to a +2 rapier costs 6,000 gp.

... what. It's that simple?

This is an "optional" rule, right? Because otherwise... all that wasted gold...


Hell, I've got nothing to do tonight, I might write up Noh's Rapier as a legacy weapon if you like.

Want to see. Now. :D


For race, I don't see anything wrong with just making her human (or insert standard race of your preference). The spiritual investment described there could come with a physical transformation from minor automaton to full-blown person.

Yeah, that seems to be the case. "Construct" in that case seemed to be spiritually based anyhow, not as in warforged-construct, so making it a plain ol' human simplifies matters. That, and an extra feat. Oh humans, is there nothing you can't do? I can't remember the last time I made a non-human character. Feats are just too damn good. :p

[tyckspoon]

... what. It's that simple?

This is an "optional" rule, right? Because otherwise... all that wasted gold...


'fraid not. It's kinda tucked away, but the MIC was only making a standard rule more prominent- here's the entirety of the relevant rule in the DMG:


A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword. (emphasis added) (Adding New Abilities, section header Creating Magic Items)

[Proven_Paradox]

As awesome as that Soulknife fix is, I'm afraid it won't meet the DM's adamant rule of "zero homebrew". He is (rightly so) afraid of a homebrew pandemic - let one exception through, and soon NO ONE wants to do anything in the books. And then his brain explodes, because he's not quite good enough to hold that much in his head and run a game at the same time.I've allowed considerable amounts of homebrew into my own games without having that problem for pretty much all of the games I've run. That said, I understand your DM's concern. If no homebrew is the rule, then that's that.


As for the Soulbound weaponry Psionic Warrior, I thought about him. It seems cool until you realize that quite frankly you won't have the weapon physically at hand at all times. Okay, well, neither does the Soulknife, but the Soulknife has no opportunity cost for doing so (power points). The Psionic Warrior does, and that feels... bad.Yeah, that's the primary reason I don't advocate Soulbound Weapon for people who want a Soulknife type of character. Psychic Warriors have very limited power points. Running out of power points for a primary manifester is pretty uncommon, but Psychic Warrior's reserves are small enough that it would be a concern. It wouldn't fit this character that well at all.


Swordsages need Wisdom. Noh's wisdom should be low, to represent her naiveity to the "real world". Okay, that might be me being overtly conformist to the idea I have in my head, but truthfully, with a 32 PB (should have stated this earlier, heh) and MAD it'll be a tight squeeze as it is. I'm going to have to put a 10, or maybe even an 8, somewhere. :/Well, with Swordsage, it's really easy to reduce your MADness to well within tolerance for a 32 point buy. Take the Shadow Blade feat and you can completely dump strength. Being not-quite a person could result in an alien outlook that makes her unsettling to others, meaning a low charisma.


Plus, this is taking place several years after Noh's 'birth' right? She has time to grow wise to the world during that time. Perhaps the spiritual infusion gives her a sense of natural perception, a kind of otherworldly understanding of the way things work. Naiveity doesn't necessarily imply a low wisdom.

So you can focus on dexterity, wisdom, and constitution, and have a perfectly playable Noh Swordsage.



... what. It's that simple?

This is an "optional" rule, right? Because otherwise... all that wasted gold...I'm not sure what you mean by "optional." I'd describe it as "supplemental." And it's not quite that simple. You have to invest time on it too, and given the character's strong bond to the sword that may reasonably make you uncomfortable.


Want to see. Now. :DI'll get to work on it. Might do a WoL chainmail too. I'll let you know what I come up with. Any particular properties you want to see?

[balistafreak]

Take the Shadow Blade feat and you can completely dump strength.

Sorry. I just looked into the Tome of Battle, wondering why I'd missed this... and:

"While you are in a Shadow Blade stance and attack with one of the discipline's preferred weapons - "

"This discipline's preferred weapons are the dagger, sai, short sword, spiked chain, siangham, and unarmed strike."

No rapier. So... Shadow Blade is a complete wiff. :(


Plus, this is taking place several years after Noh's 'birth' right? She has time to grow wise to the world during that time. Perhaps the spiritual infusion gives her a sense of natural perception, a kind of otherworldly understanding of the way things work. Naiveity doesn't necessarily imply a low wisdom.

I suppose. There's always Lawful Stupid... until character development occurs, of course. :)


I'm not sure what you mean by "optional." I'd describe it as "supplemental." And it's not quite that simple. You have to invest time on it too, and given the character's strong bond to the sword that may reasonably make you uncomfortable.

I did the reading now. That's apparently for crafting an item. You can upgrade an item with crafting, but you can't just hand 6000gp to a shopkeeper and be like, "Hey, sir, I heard that mobs like +2's, so I want you to put a +1 in my +1, so I can +2 while I +2." Okay, bad meme reference, sorry.


I'll get to work on it. Might do a WoL chainmail too. I'll let you know what I come up with. Any particular properties you want to see?

Err...

Hmmm. The story of Noh doesn't lend itself to any combat feats in particular, other than the basics. The one thing that I want to stress is friendship/the power of love/teamwork/etc. Noh was brought into the world through compassion and camraderie, it would only make sense for her arms and armor to reflect that.

Bonuses to teammates, buffs to teammates, bonuses while working with teammates - not only are these bonuses most likely going to be more powerful/cheaper (which is basically the same thing :p), but it'll bind the players together more. No one cares about Mr. Mailman who can deliver 150 force damage guaranteed every turn by himself, while everyone cares about their buddy giving them all sorts of bonuses, and wants to help said buddy in reaping the rewards of said bonuses too.

... the group is apparently heavily melee oriented. No hordes of Tier 1 Batmen here. :)

Incidentally, why yes, her main source of Manuevers and Stances is from White Raven.

[Eldariel]

Bard/Warblade. That can use Inspire Courage to be extremely efficient damage-wise, and maneuvers to deal damage without any special stat-based bonuses. Hell, you could add Snowflake Wardance to derive her attacks off Charisma.

Heck, you could use Dragonfire Inspiration with Silverbrow Human; while the fluff is off, given what she is, some kind of...well, unhuman-like abilities seem to be just right. And as a bonus, she buffs her whole team.

[Proven_Paradox]

Hm. The default abilities given in WoL aren't really about being a team player. That said, the Tome of Battle expands on legacy weapons a bit and offers a few really potent new abilities. (See Umbral Awn--I'm going to aim for the same general power level as that beast.)

However, I fear this is going to violate your DM's 'no homebrew' law pretty hard, and none of the already written legacy weapons fit with the theme you're going for here. I'll write something up, but I wouldn't suggest getting your hopes up on it actually being allowed.

[ForzaFiori]

I did the reading now. That's apparently for crafting an item. You can upgrade an item with crafting, but you can't just hand 6000gp to a shopkeeper and be like, "Hey, sir, I heard that mobs like +2's, so I want you to put a +1 in my +1, so I can +2 while I +2." Okay, bad meme reference, sorry.


All that means is you have to find Mr. McWizard and pay him 6000 to cast a spell on your sword. Anyone can enchant a sword. It makes sense that you couldn't do it with a shopkeeper, cause he can't enchant items, he just sells them. But stop by the local Wizard's guild and probably anyone could add an enchantment. Eitherway, It works insanely simple. buy a +1 weapon for 2000. Want a +2? find a wizard and pay 6000. want +3? pay +3 price -8000.

[Eldariel]

Hm. The default abilities given in WoL aren't really about being a team player. That said, the Tome of Battle expands on legacy weapons a bit and offers a few really potent new abilities. (See Umbral Awn--I'm going to aim for the same general power level as that beast.)

However, I fear this is going to violate your DM's 'no homebrew' law pretty hard, and none of the already written legacy weapons fit with the theme you're going for here. I'll write something up, but I wouldn't suggest getting your hopes up on it actually being allowed.

The menus in WoL fuel this just fine; just pick out solid, interesting spell-likes and it'll be perfect.

[Proven_Paradox]

The menus in WoL fuel this just fine; just pick out solid, interesting spell-likes and it'll be perfect.The menu spell choices are mostly blast spells or such. There are good spell-likes for this, yes, but they're not in the default menus, which is going to tip the DM's homebrew senses even more than the weapon itself.

The problem isn't making the weapon. It's making the weapon such that this DM will allow it.

[balistafreak]

Aha! Got my hands on Weapons of Legacy, looked up the process of making a Legacy weapon...

... those are some extremely uninspiring menus of abilities, there. :/

Seriously? I mean, that's really all there is to say. I mean, there are a whole bunch of abilities that just scream to be picked for being good but the abilities mainly seem to lack inspiration. Nothing with the epic feel I'd like to achieve, just "Oh hey, now my sword shoots shurikens and lightning".

Admittedly, that's pretty cool... but not epic. And due to the Weapon of Legacy's apparent singular focus (on the wielder), makes it feel like you're struggling to be better than the rest of the party. Which is not a good thing to do in a friendly group. :/

To clarify, by "homebrew ban" he means anything that you couldn't make by following books or book-like progressions. You can build something from scratch using the boundaries allowed from a book. You can't just forge an entire new system.

Which, given the unimpressive spread I'm seeing, seems to be what one would need. :/

As for the whole "stop by the Wizard's guild" thing, well, that was never an option, given our mostly low-spell settings. As in, we might be armed with magic weapons and items up the yin-yang and taking spell-like abilities whereever we can scrape them, we sidestep the off-the-rails-esque magic such as scrying or divination. There's never a wizard with Craft Wondrous Item in our party... ever. I should fill that gap sometime - I'd become everyone's best friend. :D

EDIT: Just looked up the Snowflake Wardance. While cool, it has the slight problem of requiring a slashing weapon. A rapier is decidedly a piercing one. Waaa!

As for Silverbrow humans... well, you get the Dragonblood subtype, which opens yet another can of worms that I'd rather sidestep, and the ability to... feather fall and disguise yourself. At the cost of skill points.

MY PRECIOUS SKILLPOINTS GET AWAY FROM THEM

Okay, I'm not stingy, but the race seems decidedly underwhelming.

[Proven_Paradox]

Well, given the nature of the DM's ban, I can probably work something out then. Yes, the menus are pretty weaksauce for what you're trying to do, but there are plenty of spells that are not. For example, enabling you to cast Inspirational Boost (SpC 124) as a spell-like was the first thing I had in mind for this. I'm still throwing things together, but if I can use existing rules to create something new but equivalent, I can manage something here.

[Eldariel]

@Silverbrow Human: Dragonblood subtype gives you access to Dragonfire Inspiration [DM]. Which, in turn, combined with Song of the White Raven solves all the damage problems you could ever have. Of course you have to pay something for it, but it's one of the easiest ways I could think of to avoid the need for Dex-to-damage, high Str, Power Attack or similars while still being strong with the Rapier. Basically, it's a trade-off of Dragonfire Inspiration for skill points; since you want to be good in combat, DF Insp is just the thing.

@Weapons of Legacy: Blasty spells? Whuh? Why'd you take those? Uninspired, that's true. Most of the good ones are merely Personal spells. That said, there's a number of good ones. Things like:
Mirror Image
False Life
Feather Fall
Invisibility
See Invisibility
Fly
Knock
Darkvision
Contingency
True Seeing
etc. are all handy and hard to access as non-casters without custom items. Not the most creative stack of options ever, but an eminently usable one. Then there is an absolute gem in Cunning. And then, there are awesome toys like Personal Mind Blank, Moment of Prescience, Mass Heal, etc. on the highest tier. They can be good, just not different.

Hm, I guess it's not a perfect fit. Still, another alternative. I mean, if her class features and abilities buff the whole team that kinda should help with that quo.

[balistafreak]

Hmmm. Looking at Dragonfire Inspiration, you're trading each +1 to hit and to damage, as well as one feat overall, for 1d6 damage.

I'd trade +1 to hit and damage for 1d6 damage any day, but I'm not sure I'd do so at the cost of another "tagged" skill (I try not to bother with partial classes unless absolutely necessary) and a (always needed) feat.

And see, that's the problem with most of the abilities on the Legacy weapons. They don't inspire teamwork, they inspire "I now have the most guns in my holsters to pull out whenever I want to use them." It makes the rare mage in the group feel put out and completely unneeded.

And believe me, a blaster evocation wizard (which is what a spurned buffer/healer/support mage will turn to) has nothing on an entire party of melee-monsters, and will subsequentally let their wizard die and roll another warrior.

And then we're completely out of a mage and die. So yeah.

... of course, that is at odds with our attitude of "our party lacks large amounts of magic, so we make do where we can". But see, now I'm taking additional steps (we haven't yet used Weapons of Legacy) to get even MORE abilities than everyone else, and that's the feelbad.

[Proven_Paradox]

Don't worry about the lack of teamwork abilities on the standard menu. I'm doing my best to bend the rules a bit to make this a more team oriented weapon. What you're describing won't be a problem.

[Eldariel]

Hmmm. Looking at Dragonfire Inspiration, you're trading each +1 to hit and to damage, as well as one feat overall, for 1d6 damage.

I'd trade +1 to hit and damage for 1d6 damage any day, but I'm not sure I'd do so at the cost of another "tagged" skill (I try not to bother with partial classes unless absolutely necessary) and a (always needed) feat.

You can actually use both simultaneously. It just gives you the option of buffing team damage. Note that with Inspirational Boost, Song of the Heart, Vest of Legend (eventually) and maybe Mw. Instrument, you're already looking at base+4 Inspire Courage. +5d6 to damage for whole team, especially if your party is melee heavy, is a lot.

It's a lot more than +5/+5 too (though when you're facing hard-to-hit enemies, feel free to switch to standard Inspire). Most importantly, this means that you'll have a very reliable damage source of your own, rather than having to make do with just your Str-modifier to damage.


And see, that's the problem with most of the abilities on the Legacy weapons. They don't inspire teamwork, they inspire "I now have the most guns in my holsters to pull out whenever I want to use them." It makes the rare mage in the group feel put out and completely unneeded.

And believe me, a blaster evocation wizard (which is what a spurned buffer/healer/support mage will turn to) has nothing on an entire party of melee-monsters, and will subsequentally let their wizard die and roll another warrior.

And then we're completely out of a mage and die. So yeah.

... of course, that is at odds with our attitude of "our party lacks large amounts of magic, so we make do where we can". But see, now I'm taking additional steps (we haven't yet used Weapons of Legacy) to get even MORE abilities than everyone else, and that's the feelbad.

Of course not. But...you don't need to pick team buffs if you have a Wizard dealing with those. Rather pick up buffs and tools you cannot normally acquire. What you can't normally do or gain from your party Wizard is make mirror copies of yourself/gain temporary HP/heal/etc.

The trick is also picking a bunch of abilities the Wizard can't toss on you. Pick normally Personal spells, and non-spell abilities. Suddenly you aren't stepping on your mage's toes at all, just mimicking some of his defensive tricks and being happy-go-lucky.

Of course, the principal problem is that I'm not coming up with much else in terms of options that don't eat class levels. Soulbound Weaponry is good...but requires class levels. Soulknife is...bad and requires class levels. Kensai is...decent, but requires class levels. Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) is...fair, but requires class levels. And so on.


So if you wanna stick to forming her classes as you desire to best reflect her, your options are down to:
- Ancestral Relic
- Weapon of Legacy

I frankly cannot think of anything else at this juncture. Other than homebrew. Bleh. Though if this doesn't work, making a Psychic Warrior, a Kensai or a Psychic Weapon Master would be quite alright too. Just...they all throw away the martial progression and the Inspire Courage and Bard-abilities.

[Haven]

From a roleplay perspective, I'm wondering: are you going to expand her vocabulary a bit?

As for the weapon: would it set off your DM's radar if you asked for it to be the ToB's "Blade of the Last Citadel" but as a rapier instead of a longsword? And perhaps to be able to cast the healing spells it offers on others instead of yourself? (Though the fact that it apparently gives you attack and saving throw penalties, as well as hit point loss, seem unappealing...not to mention that you only get those abilities at really high levels...I think I get why I hear Legacy Weapons get bashed so much.)

[Proven_Paradox]

The Blade of the Last Citadel is a piece of crap. The worst weapon of legacy in the Tome of Battle. Don't settle for that.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about damage if you're going for a Bardblade build. You can use strikes to carry you through on damage, therefore contributing meaningfully to combat without power attack or sneak attack.

Anyway. Frantically typing stuff up and cross-referencing the ToB and WoL, I have a first draft of Noh's Rapier ready. I haven't done much fluff: since this is your character, you should be the one to write up its lore and legacy rituals. But the crunch? She is here. Let me know what you think.

Note: I'm still editing this post to get it table-fied. I'm just putting this here now so you can go ahead and read the abilities. [edit]Tablefication is done.
Noh's Rapier

Nonlegacy game statistics: +1 rapier, cost 2,320 gp. Weight 2 lb.
Omen: When the wielder first draws this rapier from its sheath, they mentally hear a message in a little girl's voice: “Please don't take these items.” Every time they draw the rapier after the first, they hear the same little girl say, “No.”

Wielder Requirements:
Gender: Female
Weapon Proficiency (rapier)
Must be able to use Bardic Music.

NOH'S RAPIER
{table=head]Wielder Level|Attack Penalty|Ref Save Penalty|Hit Point Loss|Legacy Abilities

5th|
-|
-|
-|Camaraderie, Inspirational Boost 3/day

6th|
-1|
-|
-|-

7th|
-|
-1|
2|+1 White Raven rapier

8th|
-|
-|
2|Bond of Camaraderie 3/day

9th|
-|
-2|
-|-

10th|
-|
-|
2|Unbreakable Bond 3/day

11th|
-|
-|
-|Team Spirit

12th|
-|
-|
-|+1 Keen White Raven rapier

13th|
-2|
-|
-|-

14th|
-|
-|
2|-

15th|
-|
-3|
-|+1 Keen Disarming White Raven rapier

16th|
-|
-|
2|Order Forged From Chaos 3/day

17th|
-|
-|
-|Perfect Unity

18th|
-|
-|
-|+3 Keen Disarming White Raven rapier

19th|
-|
-|
-|Never Alone

20th|
-|
-4|
2|Heal Comrade 3/day[/table]

Legacy Weapon Abilities
All the following are legacy abilities of Noh's Rapier.

Camaraderie: Most abilities of Noh's Rapier are focused around a group of people henceforth referred to as the wielder's “comrades.” This is a group of no more than six other people that the wielder has a particularly strong bond with. They can be family members, lovers, or just very close friends.

When the wielder first unlock the legacy power of Noh's Rapier, she may designate the group that she considers to be her comrades, and these are the characters affected by Noh's Rapier's abilities. Should one of these people betray the wielder or her comrades, she may immediately choose to expel them from her comrade group. If a new person enters the wielder's group, the wielder must spend at least a week getting to know the newcomer before she can consider him a comrade.

Inspirational Boost (Sp): At 5th level, the wielder can cast Inspirational Boost spell (SpC 124) three times per day as a swift action, enabling the wielder to better inspire her comrades in battle. Caster level 5th.

Bond of Camaraderie (Sp): At 8th level, the wielder can form a bond between herself and her comrades so strong that it surpasses the limitations of distance. Three times per day, the wielder may invoke the Bond of Camaraderie, allowing her and her comrades to communicate with each other telepathically over any distance for an hour. ((This is essentially a Mindlink PLA.))

Unbreakable Bond (Sp): At 10th level, the wielder may focus on the power of her bond with her comrades, using the link to shield each others' minds from meddling by those who would see them fight amongst one another. Three times per day, she may use Battle Hymn (SpC 25) as a spell-like ability, caster level 5th.

Team Spirit (Ex): Noh's Rapier enhances the wielders ability to work with her comrades, and when they team up against foe, they enable each other far more than other groups would. If the wielder is maintaining a White Raven stance and flanking a target with one of her comrades, she and the comrade with which she flanks gain a +4 bonus to their attack rolls against that target, instead of the usual +2.

Order Forge From Chaos (Ex): Noh's Rapier allows the wielder and her allies to work flawlessly with one another. Three times per day, the wielder may initiate the Order Forge From Chaos maneuver (White Raven 6, ToB p92). If the wielder can already initiate this maneuver, while whielding Noh's Rapier, she may do so as a swift action.

Perfect Unity (Ex): The wielder of Noh's Rapier and her comrades are so in synch with one another that they can work in perfect harmony with one another, each attack opening opportunities for the other to make their own strike. When she attains 17th level, the wielder may assume the Swarm Tactics stance (White Raven 8, ToB p 93). If she already possesses this class feature, in addition to its normal benefits, the Swarm Tactics stance increases the damage of the wielder and her comrade's attacks by 2d6 when they receive the stance's attack bonus. This is a special version of the Swarm Tactics stance that is only effective if the ally in the stance's description is among the wielder's comrades.

Never Alone (Su): The bond between the wielder and her comrades becomes so strong that not even great distances can truly separate them. Beginning at 19th level, the wielder and her comrades may communicate with each other over any distance, even over planar boundaries, at all times. In addition, they are allways aware of each other's condition, as the Status spell.

Heal Comrades (Ex): The ultimate ability of Noh's Rapier is that of of empowering the wielder to save her comrades' life. Three times per day, she may use a special version of the Heal spell. This Heal can only affect the wielder's comrades, but it may do so at any distance. The wielder can also use this ability on herself. Caster level 15th.

This is of course a first draft, so there are prolly spelling and grammatical errors here and there, and the abilities may need tweaking as you go, but I think this captures what you're looking for.

[balistafreak]

That is... genuninely cool. I question the need for the weapon to be keen... but then again, it's a frickin' rapier. That basically means at some point in time it must be keen. :p

What exactly does the "White Raven" descriptor of the weapon mean? That it counts as a White Raven weapon?

Might I ask how you decided the "prices" for each ability? Referencing other abilities on weapons and throwing them together here?

[Greenish]

The name of the weapon should be "Please don't take this Rapier".

[Proven_Paradox]

That is... genuninely cool. I question the need for the weapon to be keen... but then again, it's a frickin' rapier. That basically means at some point in time it must be keen. :pThat was basically my thinking as well. I was trying to avoid just piling +1s on it, but since there's no obvious energy type to slap on it, adding Keen seemed like the thing to do. It's certainly not going to hurt, no?


What exactly does the "White Raven" descriptor of the weapon mean? That it counts as a White Raven weapon?Actually no. That's a Martial Discipline Weapon (ToB 148). Basically, it provides a flat +1 to attack rolls if you know at least one maneuver from the associated school. When you use a maneuver from that school, this bonus increases to +3. So you use a White Raven strike, boost, stance, anything, and you get a boost in attack rolls. That's primarily there to allow you to compensate for the attack penalty using the weapon imposes.


Might I ask how you decided the "prices" for each ability? Referencing other abilities on weapons and throwing them together here?Certainly. I'll spoiler it for the benefit of those who're not interested in this part.
First off, all this jazz about Camaraderie is entirely out of nowhere I'm afraid to say. It made sense for the weapon. It didn't change much about most of the powers though, and I'll provide instructions for how to untangle the few abilities I actually modified with Camaraderie here.

Now, on to building the weapon. The basic structure is that at level 5-10 it grants a type A ability every level, and you can buy a type B for two type As and a type C for three type As. At level 11-15, you get type D, E, and F, and at level 16-20 you get type G, H, and I.

Extrapolating a bit from the types of type A abilities listed, one common theme is casting a first level spell-like three times per day. So, Inspirational Boost being a first level Bard spell, the ability to cast it three times a day is a type A.

The next thing makes it a +1 White Raven rapier, equivalent to a +2 weapon. That's straight from WoL: taking a weapon from +1 to +2 is a type B, so you don't get anything from level 6.

Bond of Camaraderie is the first spot I'm flubbing a bit. Mindlink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindlink.htm) is a first level power, and there's no real reason not to allow powers if you're allowing spells as I see things. Limiting it to only being able to affect your comrades is a pretty big restriction, so I felt that adequate justification for increasing the ML by 1, allowing you to link all of your comrades at once and boosting the duration to a nice, even hour. If your DM doesn't like the Camaraderie angle, you can fix this by just making it a ML 5 Mindlink PLA--that reduces the maximum number of people included in the link to 5 and the duration to 50 minutes per use. That makes it a textbook type A choice.

Unbreakable Bond extrapolates a bit from the type B choices presented in WoL: a common theme among those is casting a second level SLA three times per day. Battle Hymn is a second level Bard spell. Bam, type B option.

Now we're in Type D, E, F territory. Here's where I remembered that the ToB has better legacy weapons with unique abilities and opened it up. I draw heavily from my two favorite legacy weapons from here on out: Umbrawl Awn (ToB 141) and Faithful Avenger (ToB 134).

For Team Spirit, I basically ripped off Umbral Awn's Shadowstrike ability completely, adding in the specification that it only applies to comrades. Judging from the way it's listed in the ToB, it's a type D option. If your DM doesn't like the comrade angle, just remove it and it is still completely within the legacy weapon specifications.

Adding Keen on is completely by the book. Going from +2 to +3 is a explicitly listed type D option.

I wanted to add some specification that made it so that you can't be disarmed of this weapon, and Disarming is a +2 enhancement from the MIC that does that and a little bit more. Increasing the enhancement from +3 to +5 is a textbook type F option.

And here we get into the big stuff. Type G, F, and I. I ended up just using type G options here, so no need to worry about what F and I allow.

Getting Order Forged From Chaos in there comes from an ability on Desert Wind. I don't particularly like Desert Wind, but it does offer a really cool Type G option: one of its abilities allows you to use an 8th level maneuver (Wyrm's Flame specifically) three times per day if you don't know it, and gives the maneuver a slight boost if you do. Order Forged From Chaos is a sixth level maneuver, so it easily fits in here. Instead of making it five times per day (as being lower level than Wyrm's Flame justifies) I decided to make the boost for already knowing the maneuver considerably more potent: action economy is key, and anything reducing a move action to a swift action is a big deal. So, there's your type G maneuver enabling ability.

Perfect Unity is based on my favorite ability from Faithful Avenger: Boundless Determination is a type G that allows the wielder to assume an 8th level stance, and if you already can it gives a serious boost when you're in it. So, there you go. I figured since Swarm Tactics provides an attack bonus, making it also provide a damage bonus was the way to go.

Never Alone is a bit more flubbed. Umbral Awn allows you to cast Invisibility at will as a type H ability. A constant Status is easily in line with that, since Status and Invisibility are both second level spells. However, Invisibility is an short duration spell that gets dispelled every time one attacks, so that merits adding a bit more. A continuous first level power isn't much at this point, so constant Status and Mindlink are easy enough.

Heal Comrade is the other big flub thing. First off, I put 5/day on the table, but it should have been 3/day. Since it can only affect comrades, I felt it was within reason to ignore range limitations. If the DM doesn't like that idea, just make it so that it's a normal Heal spell that can work on anyone, usable 3/day.So there's your breakdown. Work for you?

[balistafreak]

Hmmm. That's a pretty good explanation.

I'll try pushing that on the DM. Thanks!

As for a writeup of the character... it's coming. Heroforge is a b---- to get to work.