View Full Version : [3.5] Build advice Spellthief//Warlock

2010-03-05, 08:54 PM
So I'm going to be joining a gestalt game soon at lvl 5 which will take place in a city and i thought this build would be fun and work well there.

The plan is to go Spellthief 5 // Warlock 5 and then advance eventually to Spellthief 20 // Warlock 5/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer 10/? 4 and be a very sneaky character (Dark Whisper Gnome already approved by DM) using eldritch blast sneak attack to both deal damage and steal spells.

I would get divination spells from the Spellthief (instead of wasting invocations) and take Master Spellthief, Mindsight, and feats that improve my ranged attacks.

Does this seem like a useful build? Is there a better way to go (without being cheesy, I really want to take spellthief to 20, or at the very least 13)?

2010-03-05, 10:08 PM
The main question with Spellthief is always, "Will we be facing spellcasting opponents?" If you won't, then this character will largely suck.

Beyond that, another key question is "How well do the classes cover each others' weaknesses?" And the answer here is "not very well." Spellthief gets a lot of skill points, at least, which covers for the Warlock's crappy skill points (which are always annoying since his class list is pretty decent). But beyond that ... you'll still have d6 Hit Dice (owch), overlapping good Will save, poor Fort save, and Medium BAB.

That said, at least you do have an arrangement where you can spend your actions on one class's features (Warlock), while your other class (Spellthief) adds passive enhancements in. That might be good enough action synergy to make up for the weaknesses elsewhere.

The main thing to make this build stronger is to optimize Warlock in all the usual ways. Eldritch Glaive, possibly even the whole Binder dip/Hellfire Warlock combo.

2010-03-05, 10:14 PM
doesn't Spelltheif 1/warlock 19 with master spelltheif work?

2010-03-05, 10:16 PM
doesn't Spelltheif 1/warlock 19 with master spelltheif work?

It doesn't get to cast any level 2+ spells that it steals, which is kind of a drag.

2010-03-05, 10:35 PM
Ok then, Binder 1/warlock ?/ur priest 2/hellfirewarlock 3/the warlock/divine+warlock dual progression class I forget the name of//spelltheif 20?

2010-03-05, 10:45 PM
Eldritch Disciple is the class you're thinking of, and it may not be allowed in Gestalt.

2010-03-06, 02:57 AM
Ok then, Binder 1/warlock ?/ur priest 2/hellfirewarlock 3/the warlock/divine+warlock dual progression class I forget the name of//spelltheif 20?
Something like:
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3 // Spellthief 20
Stealing spells from everyone including the gods...might be a fun build if allowed.

2010-03-06, 11:23 AM
Hmm, I don't think Eldritch Disciple is allowed in gestalt with its dual progression and I don't really like the flavor of Ur-Priest (I am going for Chaotic Neutral with no tendency for evil or good, more than anything he wants to make a name for himself through power, wealth, notoriety, and fear) for this character (though I may be able to work it in).
Also, what is the point in this build of waiting so long to grab the Hellfire Warlock levels, shouldn't i take them as soon as possible (11th-13th levels)?

Maybe I could go Warlock 4/Binder 1/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer 4/Hellfire Warlock 3/Unseen Seer 6/X 1//Spellthief 20
[Edit: I just read the description for the Naberius vestige and it goes perfectly with this character so I think this build would be really great]

(i'm not 100% set on the unssen seer, it just seems like it will have a lot of synergy adding sneak attack and progressing eldritch blast at the same time)

and thank you all for your advice

2010-03-06, 12:55 PM
Why are you killing your warlock progression? If your already taking master spell thief why not dip into a full casting class?

Warlock 20//Spell thief 2/Sorcerer 4/Mindbender 1/Unseen Seer10/+?3
Where ? can be either more sorcerer for the spells or more spell thief (personally I wouldn't stay in spell thief beyond 2 or 6... 6 is very tempting though).

Wizard vs sorcerer:For me, I would go wizard focused specialist conjurer, there isn't much your charisma is good for with warlock and spellthief (I realize dc, bonus spells, but you can cherry pick around those). Focusing on int grants you more skills, and better spells faster. For simplicity I used sorcerer in my above recommendation for cha synergy.

Warlock20 VS Hellfire3/Binder1: This is personal preference both have there advantages (and with the gap on the other side you could easily qualify for hellfire). Binder + Hellfire gives you considerably better blasting + an interesting roleplaying quark. Straight warlock gives you energy resistance and dr and limited fast healing earlier without worrying about (fractional) BAB progression Invocation progression (1 level, I know, not much) and so on.

2010-03-06, 01:53 PM
I am not killing my warlock progression, I still get invocation and eldritch blast as a 19 level warlock. I am taking 20 in spellthief so I can actually use the spells I steal which master spellthief does not let you do without spellthief levels. I am set on spellthief at least until 13 but preferably 20 (if the campaign makes it that far). I am only really wanting to optimize the warlock side and only so far as it fits the flavor which so far this does.