Should I learn 4th ed?

[Vulkan]

Alright my friend taught my friend and I 3.5 and it's been like 6 months at least since we have played last so we are rusty.. But comparing 3.5 to 4th which do YOU prefer?

Also I'm not aware of the player races in 4th if you could name them I will love you for ever.

[Blazen]

They are both very different systems, but 4 is much easier to learn. There are many topics on the subject already, just use some google-fu to find them.

[Geiger Counter]

I like the consolidated skills in 4th Ed, but hate everything else about it.
They tore out D&D's soul for the sake of equality in class choices.

[Volkov]

Alright my friend taught my friend and I 3.5 and it's been like 6 months at least since we have played last so we are rusty.. But comparing 3.5 to 4th which do YOU prefer?

Also I'm not aware of the player races in 4th if you could name them I will love you for ever.

Don't convert, our numbers are very hard to replace due to 3.5 being out of print.

[Vulkan]

Yeah but I wanted to know the preference of GITP members.. If I ask /tg/ I know what answer I`ll get... I also know that people from /tg/ will say some thing without even playing the game..


Don't convert, our numbers are very hard to replace due to 3.5 being out of print.

Yeah but the only D&D group that's near me is 4th ed.. In all reality there is no reason why I can't just brush up on my 3.5 knowledge and learn 4th

Except I didn't learn unearth arcana and every time I play online 3.5 it seems some one always brings skills from one of those kind of books.. I don't mind races but some traits...

[Aramir21]

Don't convert, our numbers are very hard to replace due to 3.5 being out of print.

I still play both 3rd and 4th editions. You play one without abandoning the other.

I'd say, if you feel like you want to, go ahead and learn 4e. Just my opinion, but I think it's pretty good. It helps if you approach it as a new game and not as D&D.

[Tiki Snakes]

If you have the 3.5 books already, there's no pressing need if you are happy with 3.5.

If you lack the 3.5 books, you'll have to look into either Pathfinder (3.5 + Paizo's houserules) or 4e, in which case I'd recommend giving the freely downloadable quick-start stuff a go for 4e. I'm sure there's something similar for Pathfinder, though failing that they have an SRD online (due to licensing reasons if nothing else.)

It basically boils down to what you want to get out of it all, though.

[edit]

If there's a 4th ed game near you, and it's all that's on offer, definately have a look at the quick-start downloadable rules, because having access to games is imo much more important than what system they are in. :smallsmile:

[Volkov]

I still play both 3rd and 4th editions. You play one without abandoning the other.

I'd say, if you feel like you want to, go ahead and learn 4e. Just my opinion, but I think it's pretty good. It helps if you approach it as a new game and not as D&D.

Don't make me bring Chitzkoi out.

[Thurbane]

I think the new races in 4E are the Booby Dragons and Emo Tiefs, or something like that...:smallbiggrin:

[Volkov]

If you have the 3.5 books already, there's no pressing need if you are happy with 3.5.

If you lack the 3.5 books, you'll have to look into either Pathfinder (3.5 + Paizo's houserules) or 4e, in which case I'd recommend giving the freely downloadable quick-start stuff a go for 4e. I'm sure there's something similar for Pathfinder, though failing that they have an SRD online (due to licensing reasons if nothing else.)

It basically boils down to what you want to get out of it all, though.

[edit]

If there's a 4th ed game near you, and it's all that's on offer, definately have a look at the quick-start downloadable rules, because having access to games is imo much more important than what system they are in. :smallsmile:
SIC EM BOY! Chitzkoi the Soviet, cybernetic superdog leaps on Tikisnake and rips out his throat.

[Tiki Snakes]

He does, does he? Should I be expecting him soon?
I guess he's walking all the way over here from russia, cause I haven't seen him yet.

I'll keep you posted, eh? :smallsmile:

NB;
DnD 4e Test Drive (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20090428)

[KillianHawkeye]

Everyone should endeavor to learn anything they can. The more knowledge, the better.

[Aerodynamik]

Well. They're different games, really. It's like how Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy XII are both Final Fantasy, even though they work in a very different way, mechanics wise. You still take turns and cast spells like 'Ice' and 'Fire'. The settings are similar. But they're really very different games.

Oh, BTW here is a list of Player Races (Because you asked):

Humans, Elves (Wood Elves), Eladrin (High Elves), Dwarves, Half Elves, Halflings, Dragonborn, Teifling, Deva (Kinda, but not really like Asimaar), Gnomes, Shifters (Werewolf-kin), Goliath, Half-Orc, Drow, Genasi, Changeling, Doppelganger, Warforged, Orc, Hobgoblin, Goblin, Bugbear, Minotaur, Githyanki, Githzerai, Shadarkai, Kenku (Bird-men), Bullywug (Frog-men) and many, many more.

But don't think too much about the astoundingly large number of races, because races work differently in this edition anyway. Because like I said, it's a different game.

[Volkov]

He does, does he? Should I be expecting him soon?
I guess he's walking all the way over here from russia, cause I haven't seen him yet.

I'll keep you posted, eh? :smallsmile:

NB;
DnD 4e Test Drive (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20090428)

He can leap across a mountain in a single bound, laughs at nukes, tears apart tanks, and can outrun a jet. He'll be there in thirty seconds.

[Tengu_temp]

I also know that people from /tg/ will say some thing without even playing the game...

It'd be a much better world if /tg/ was the only place like that...

[Volkov]

It'd be a much better world if /tg/ was the only place like that...

I happen to like /tg/ if only for the porn....

[skywalker]

If you lack the 3.5 books, you'll have to look into either Pathfinder (3.5 + Paizo's houserules) or 4e, in which case I'd recommend giving the freely downloadable quick-start stuff a go for 4e.

Or, you know, go to the used bookstore?

OP, it's important to note that these sorts of topics are frowned upon because while you didn't technically ask "which is better," it's very easy for people to take it that way, and we've been down that road enough times before.

Aside from that, there's no reason not to learn 4th ed, no rule that says you must play something once you learn it and you can never go back to an older edition.

I personally prefer both for different things. Different types of game, if you will.

EDIT:
It'd be a much better world if /tg/ was the only place like that...

Remember when "Tengu_temp" was just that, a "temporary account?" Now look at it...

[Vulkan]

I happen to like /tg/ if only for the porn....

I like /tg/ for the 40k memes and miniature discussion.. :smallredface:
Oh and the anonymous...ness You know for when I need to post some thing REALLY stupid

Macha <3

[Kaun]

this is a kind of silly question for this board because you won't get a definative answer one way or the other out of these forums.

Long story short, if you friends or people you know are playing 4e, give it a crack.

[Swordgleam]

Like a lot of people here, I like 3.5 and 4e for different reasons. My biggest advice is to not form any opinions until you've played 4e - I thought it was the stupidest thing ever when I first read through the rulebooks, then I read the rulebooks a second time, played a few sessions, and now I love it.

I'd also try to do something new and crazy in 4e. There's a lot more viable race/class combos now, and you have to actively try to build a useless character. Dwarf rogue? Totally works; there's even feats that let you sneak attack with axes. Goliath bard? A surprisingly good choice. Eladrin barbarian? Not the most obvious choice, but far from underpowered.

[oxybe]

personally? 3rd ed could go the way of the dodo & i wouldn't bat an eye. i'll play it (and still do. we're starting up a new campaign probably start of april) but my heart now belongs to 4th ed. thank god they finally put the soul back into the game instead of cluttering it with an unnecessarily heavy ruleset.

just my big IMO. then again, i have a preference for games that are more abstract.

i recommend giving the group a try. that way you can at least find out if the group or the game's for you. then again i'll play anything as long as the group is great.

[Oracle_Hunter]

NB;
DnD 4e Test Drive (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20090428)
Do this.

Try it out with your group and see how you like it. The system is easy enough to pick up (N.B. treat it as a new system rather than an update) and if you like it, shell out $10 (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Subscription.aspx) to get the full Character Builder and Adventure Tools permanently on your (and your friends') computer(s).

[OracleofWuffing]

He can leap across a mountain in a single bound, laughs at nukes, tears apart tanks, and can outrun a jet. He'll be there in thirty seconds.
Too bad he apparently can't stop on a dime...

Yeah, Vulkan, go ahead and learn 4th edition. That way you can see if you like it or not for yourself. It's a process I'm going through, too.

[Tengu_temp]

I happen to like /tg/ if only for the porn....

I prefer /m/ myself. Granted, I mostly use other people to fish out the fun parts for me.



Remember when "Tengu_temp" was just that, a "temporary account?" Now look at it...

Yeah. Blame the forum for eating my old password.

[Defiant]

Alright my friend taught my friend and I 3.5 and it's been like 6 months at least since we have played last so we are rusty.. But comparing 3.5 to 4th which do YOU prefer?

Also I'm not aware of the player races in 4th if you could name them I will love you for ever.


Should I learn 4th ed?

It depends on what games are offered in your roleplaying "community" (I put it in quotation marks since roleplayers are so scarce, it's hardly ever a "community"). If people are playing 4th ed (like you said), learn 4th ed.


Which do you prefer?

I have not played 4th ed, but I know the basic differences between it and 3.5. I prefer the sheer amount of customization possible in 3.5, which is why I go with that system. But each has their strength and weaknesses.

[AslanCross]

I think the learning curve is about even. I understood 4E easily mostly because I already had prior 3.5 experience.

Learning the system isn't a problem and is entirely up to you. Whether you actually want to spend money on a new system is the more pertinent question, IMO.

For the record, I prefer 3.5, but I'm avoiding listing the reasons here to prevent delay the inevitable flame war and locking of this thread.

[onthetown]

I've played 3.5 for years, tried 4 and didn't enjoy it... but from what I've heard it's easy to pick up and fun for parties.

[Shazbot79]

Alright my friend taught my friend and I 3.5 and it's been like 6 months at least since we have played last so we are rusty.. But comparing 3.5 to 4th which do YOU prefer?

Also I'm not aware of the player races in 4th if you could name them I will love you for ever.

Couldn't hurt to give it a shot. You can Download the test drive for free on D&D's website.

Player Races (all playable from 1st level):

Humans
Dwarves
Elves
Halflings
Half Elves
Eladrin
Tieflings
Dragonborn
Drow
Genasi
Devas
Gnomes
Goliaths
Shifters
Half-Orcs
Warforged
Kalashtar
Changelings
Minotaurs
Wilden
Shardmind
Githzerai
Githyanki
Shadar-Kai
Gnolls
Goblins
Hobgoblins
Orcs
Kobolds
Bugbears
Kenku
Bullywugs

And coming soon:
Mul
Thri-Kreen

[Dr.Epic]

Alright my friend taught my friend and I 3.5 and it's been like 6 months at least since we have played last so we are rusty.. But comparing 3.5 to 4th which do YOU prefer?

Also I'm not aware of the player races in 4th if you could name them I will love you for ever.

I know about 4th but find that 3.5 is still better, though that's just my opinion.

[Shazbot79]

He can leap across a mountain in a single bound, laughs at nukes, tears apart tanks, and can outrun a jet. He'll be there in thirty seconds.

So he's kind of like a 4E character then?

:smalltongue:

[Vitruviansquid]

Yeah but I wanted to know the preference of GITP members.. If I ask /tg/ I know what answer I`ll get... I also know that people from /tg/ will say some thing without even playing the game..



Yeah but the only D&D group that's near me is 4th ed.. In all reality there is no reason why I can't just brush up on my 3.5 knowledge and learn 4th

Except I didn't learn unearth arcana and every time I play online 3.5 it seems some one always brings skills from one of those kind of books.. I don't mind races but some traits...

Not sure I understand how this is even a question, at this point.

But in any case, 4e may or may not be mechanically superior to 3.5, but I have to say, it's rapidly gaining the upper hand logistically.

[Mystic Muse]

So he's kind of like a 3.5 character then?

:smalltongue:

fixed it for you.:smalltongue:

[FoE]

I prefer 4E, but why should you care about the opinion of a stranger whose likes and dislikes are totally unknown to you?

The only way to know if you like it is to try it. 4E is fairly novice-friendly, so you should be able to learn the rules quickly.

[Shazbot79]

fixed it for you.:smalltongue:

Samsonite! I was way off!

[Tequila Sunrise]

Alright my friend taught my friend and I 3.5 and it's been like 6 months at least since we have played last so we are rusty.. But comparing 3.5 to 4th which do YOU prefer?

Also I'm not aware of the player races in 4th if you could name them I will love you for ever.
My opinion? Go try that 4e game! Most importantly because you'll, ya know, get to play and also because 4e rocks the house:

1. It's simpler to play and to DM.
2. It's easier to play whatever character you want to play.
3. It's better balanced.

My only serious complaint about 4e is combat length: while 3e fights can boil down to five minutes and a single round, 4e fights can become multi-hour 10+ round monstrosities. 4e went too far the other way, IMO, which I fix by jacking monster damage and dropping monster hp.

[nightwyrm]

I prefer /m/ myself. Granted, I mostly use other people to fish out the fun parts for me.


I prefer /a/ for fulfilling my daily memetic needs. Also for my daily dose of 2-D T&A.

As for the OP, play both or whatever is available near you.

[Thajocoth]

Just try a game. This is like "Everyone, I've only ever had pasta with cheddar cheese and a little milk. Should I try pasta with tomato sauce and mozzarella?" We can't really know if you'll like it or not. Take a bite and find out for yourself.

It's super-easy too. Especially if you have access to the char builder. Playing's simple, especially if anyone else has any idea how to. You can easily show up knowing nothing and play.

The only issue might be assuming 3.5e things... A few converts from 3.5 I played a 4e game with had trouble adapting to these two things: Fort, Reflex & Will Defenses are as if you took 10 on your roll, so you don't roll (which is why they're no longer saves), and standing up from prone does not grant an Attack of Opportunity. (And to remember the saves thing, they called it their Fort AC, Reflex AC and Will AC. That was confusing to no end... Don't do that.)

Ultimately, I should hope that fun is system independent. Play what's available and try to have fun.

[Silly Wizard]

Definitely. It's good to learn new systems.

By the way, don't feel obligated to ignore 4e as some adamant 3.5 fans say. It isn't converting away, you can always play 3.5 anytime you want.

[Ashiel]

Agreed. I was DMing 4E games before the books were in stores (due to a leak of the pdf files from some source), and I purchased the core books when they came out. After somewhere between six to ten sessions into the game, my group and I dropped it like a hot potato. Now the core books are sitting on my shelf looking pretty; next to my collection of other non-D&D books like Deadlands, Toon, Shadowrun and Legend of the Five Rings. I've got them if I need to reference something for some reason, or for the odd chance that I find a 4E game that I wouldn't mind playing in (but as far as DMing goes, I don't really care to run it).

There's nothing to stop you from learning and playing with a new system. That doesn't mean you can't go back to something you like better at a later date. As others have pointed out, you can purchase a number of 3.5 books used or from various bookstores; or check out Pathfinder (www.paizo.com/pathfinder) and the Pathfinder SRD (www.d20pfsrd.com). :smallsmile:

[Ravens_cry]

Should you learn it? Sure, it's always fun to learn something new. But personally, the way I at least role play, it doesn't really work. It focuses much more on D&D, the game rather then D&D, the pen and paper universe. My verisimilitude, already strained by some of 3.5's quirks, is absolutely shattered by fourth edition. Why can a completely non-magical character only do some awesome move only once a day/between 'extended rest'? It just. . .bugs me.
I started on D&D 4E, that should tell you how long I have been role playing. But after a few months, I was finding it less then satisfying.
My group, some of whom have been playing longer then I have been out of the womb, were similarly dissatisfied. So we play 3.75, AKA Pathfinder.
It's not perfect, but it works far better then 4E did for me. But that's me. Depending on what you want from a game, it could be the exact opposite.

[BobVosh]

I recommend playing it a few times. The rules are simple, character creation is hard to screw up, and it is worth learning. That said I didn't like the system, even if I approved of several improvements.

If it came down to no RPG or 4ed, 4ed wins hands down.

[DabblerWizard]

In my own personal experience, 4e d&d is a fun system to play, a fun system to DM, and an easy system to learn.

Sure the mechanics are different from 3x. It's not the same system. As far as I've played it, it's worthwhile.

[Volkov]

So he's kind of like a 4E character then?

:smalltongue:

No, he's from Red alert 1, just like me. >.>

[hewhosaysfish]

I prefer 4E, but why should you care about the opinion of a stranger whose likes and dislikes are totally unknown to you?

This is a good point.

What would the OP do if, for example, a whole bunch of us all recommend he try FATAL?

[Mystic Muse]

This is a good point.

What would the OP do if, for example, a whole bunch of us all recommend he try FATAL?

Well, we wouldn't though.

FATAL is sick and wrong.

In fact. for some, FATAL may be fatal.:smalltongue:

[LibraryOgre]

Personally, I prefer Castles and Crusades, but of the two, I'd say go with 4th edition. It's harder to make characters that are incompetent (which is frighteningly easy in 3.x), and the game is generally more forgiving of silly character choices. In many ways, there is less choice available, but there are fewer bad choices, and I find the game to be a lot more fun... less a mechanistic exercise than 3.5.

[slyfox99]

this is a kind of silly question for this board because you won't get a definative answer one way or the other out of these forums.

Long story short, if you friends or people you know are playing 4e, give it a crack.

I agree with this, with the caveat that I strongly dislike 3.5 myself, for my own reasons. Not to slander anyone who likes 3.5, its just my taste.

[Fallbot]

Chiming in with much the same thing as everyone else. Although 4E feels much more 'gamey' and less...organic? than 3.5, I prefer 4E, simply because I'm terrible at optimization, and 4E makes it very hard for me to screw up character creation.

So anyway, the systems are different but if you go in with an open mind you're bound to have fun :smallsmile:

[Telok]

If your favourite anime is the kind where someone gets gutted by a spiked sword, yelled at to heal it by the guy who shoots lasers from his eyes, and then shouts the name of his attack before waving his sword around hitting the enemy with lightning. Then 4e is the perfect game for you.

[Tiki Snakes]

This is a good point.

What would the OP do if, for example, a whole bunch of us all recommend he try FATAL?

He'd collect his pay check at the end of the month, because he's clearly starring in a new episode of the Twilight Zone.

[note- Throat still in tact. Perhaps Robo-Hound got lost? How dissapointing.]

[Zaq]

I'm a 3.5 player at heart, but I've been also playing in a 4e campaign for the past month or so. It's easy to learn (the only difficult part is not making 3.5 assumptions) and a fun enough diversion, though I feel like there just isn't as much to it as 3.5. The character builder is definitely cute, though. I wish they'd done that for 3.5... though I'd miss the fun of digging through the piles and piles of books.

It's a fun game and you can have a good time with it, but it's no substitute for 3.5 overall. Doesn't make it a bad game, though, and if it's the only game in town, it can be worth your time. Just don't expect too much from it.

[Tinydwarfman]

So he's kind of like a wizard then?

Now it's perfect.

[Darklord Xavez]

Alright my friend taught my friend and I 3.5 and it's been like 6 months at least since we have played last so we are rusty.. But comparing 3.5 to 4th which do YOU prefer?

Also I'm not aware of the player races in 4th if you could name them I will love you for ever.

I am very into role-playing rather than roll-playing, so I prefer 3.5 to 4th ed. That is for several reasons:
1. In the 4e MM, it gives tactics for every monster, encounters for every monster, extremely detailed combat stats for every monster, but does not even mention anything about how any of the monsters are organized outside of the dungeon environment.
2. In 4e, the skills Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and the Leadership feat are barely mentioned (at least as far as I remember).
However, if you are into hack-and-slay, 4.0 is for you
-Xavez

[Oracle_Hunter]

2. In 4e, the skills Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and the Leadership feat are barely mentioned (at least as far as I remember)
Jeez, talk about Complaining About Games You Never Played (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlexxpmjrh25rbg?from=Main.ComplainingAboutShows YouDontWatch) :smallsigh:
Social Encounters are fully detailed in a game mechanic called Skill Challenges. There are surely some kinks left in the system (to put it mildly) but it is very much the opposite of Diplomacy/Bluff/Sense Motive not being mentioned

I will agree with you on one point: the 3.5 MM barely gives you any sense as to what monsters do outside of encounters. Why, one just has to look at the AD&D MM to see how far we've fallen since those lofty days of yore :smalltongue:

Re: OP - my first suggestion remains my true suggestion.

[Nero24200]

If your favourite anime is the kind where someone gets gutted by a spiked sword, yelled at to heal it by the guy who shoots lasers from his eyes, and then shouts the name of his attack before waving his sword around hitting the enemy with lightning. Then 4e is the perfect game for you.

How is this different from 3.5? Warrior's still get named attacks (Unless Power Attack, Smite Evil, Whirlwind Attack aren't actually names. If you include PF this also includes things like Vital Strike and Cleave), and I don't recall seeing any fighter abilities with elemental damage or descriptors in 4th Edition (granted I only have access to the PHB1). Which powers are you looking at?

@ OP. I would personally say 3.5 is better. Though I would say that even better than that is some of the D20 3rd party stuff, like Iron Heroes or some of the homebrew systems you find like E6. However, just on the off-chance that 4th Edition is your cup of tea, I'd have a look, especially considering that of all the RP games I've looked at, it's by far the easiest to pick up and learn.

[Swordgleam]

2. In 4e, the skills Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, and the Leadership feat are barely mentioned (at least as far as I remember).

In several sessions of my 4e game, there have been more Bluff and Insight checks rolled than attack rolls. (For some reason our party isn't big on Diplomacy or Intimidate.)

[BobVosh]

Well, we wouldn't though.

FATAL is sick and wrong.

In fact. for some, FATAL may be fatal.:smalltongue:

And those who survive may have it the worst of them all...

[Thurbane]

What the hell are /a/ /m/ and /tg/

...are they codewords for websites or what?

[Kylarra]

What the hell are /a/ /m/ and /tg/

...are they codewords for websites or what?4chan boards.

[FMArthur]

4e is very, very easy to learn if you already know how to play 3.5. Making a character has changed but there are easy-to-use tools available online to print out a character fairly quickly. You might need a little help when you make it, but not much. Little has changed about the way you actually play the game, except that saves are rolled on by the aggressor, so it's all like Armor Class in the way it functions. Anything else can be looked up during play (status conditions should be bookmarked in your PHB for convenience at first).