Requesting help with a Swordsage/Shugenja Build [D&D v3.5]

[vampire2948]

Hey all,

I'm playing in a campaign in the near future with the following party:

Elf Ranger (Going for the longbow massed arrow route)
Elf Rogue (Dual-weilding, poisons, high damage and such)
Dwarf Fighter (He's going to try to play it as a high-damage character, not sure how he's planning on that, or anything about the character.)
[Unknown Race, probably Maenad] Psion (Going for Telepath discipline, planning to take a healthy scoop of damage spells along with his telepathy tricks)
Dwarf Cleric (DMPC'd character. Has the Fire and Sun domains, I think the DM wants to use this character to go all 'pewpew' on his other NPC's. So he asked if i'd mind playing the healer.)

Me: Unknown at present.

And that's the reason i've come to the Playground to seek your advice.
I'm currently planning to play a Swordsage/Shugenja/Ebon Phoenix Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99636&highlight=Ebon+Phoenix+Mage), with a few backstory elements to tone down my power. e.g. I never draw my sword unless I absolutely have to. Going for LE alignment, will be something to do with the honor of my house and such.

I need advice / answers to the following:

What race should I play? I've currently penciled myself in as Changeling, since I also appear to be the party face, looking at my skill set. I don't need a race that buffs my combat or casting ability.

This campaign is planned to exceed the build i've got laid out for it. Which is : Swordsage 3 / Shugenja 3 / Ebon Phoenix Mage 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99636&highlight=Ebon+Phoenix+Mage)

What do I fill up the final 4 levels to level 20 with?

Current Considered Possibilities:
Shugenja [Would give me casting equal to that of a 15th level Shugenja]
Swordsage [More maneuvers never hurt anyone?]
Ur-Priest [Gives me buffed healing ability, and other options. More spells are always good. Ur-Priest is quite a possible turn to take for my Character from it's backstory.]

[I]Or

Should I just scrap the Ebon Phoenix Mage idea, and go for full Shugenja? Or another caster class?
We seem to have enough melee combatants, and damage-dealing classes.


All ideas are appreciated.
Thank you for your time, and any future time that posting a reply might take,

Vampire2948,

[Cogwheel]

I suggest Shugenja. EPM is entirely too much fun to drop. Since you're apparently meant to be the healer, more casting can't hurt. Take that with a grain of salt, though. I know quite literally nothing about Shugenja except that they're a vaguely Shinto-themed divine casting class. I think. A sort of divine Wu Jen?

[Amphetryon]

Shugenja specifies Divine casting; Ebon Phoenix Mage specifies Arcane casting. How are you fixing this?

[vampire2948]

Shugenja specifies Divine casting; Ebon Phoenix Mage specifies Arcane casting. How are you fixing this?

DM was ok with swapping the casting flavour of Ebon Phoenix Mage, seems to think that Fiends and such are closer to divine than to arcane.

[magic9mushroom]

DM was ok with swapping the casting flavour of Ebon Phoenix Mage, seems to think that Fiends and such are closer to divine than to arcane.

Weird. Any reason you don't want (possibly refluffed) RKV?

[Amphetryon]

In that case, may I suggest Sacred Exorcist 1 (DMM Persist cheese)/Contemplative 1 (pick the best offered by your faith)/Divine Oracle 2 (armored Evasion and Oracle Domain).

[vampire2948]

Weird. Any reason you don't want (possibly refluffed) RKV?

'cause Swordsages cannot learn things from the Devoted Spirit school, and I don't have Turn/Rebuke undead from Shugenja.
Oh, and I don't intend to worship Wee Jas, though that part is easily changed.


In that case, may I suggest Sacred Exorcist 1 (DMM Persist cheese)/Contemplative 1 (pick the best offered by your faith)/Divine Oracle 2 (armored Evasion and Oracle Domain).

That's interesting. I'll look into those classes.

Thanks for the help.

[Amphetryon]

It's entirely likely that fitting all 3 in is nigh impossible, but they're among the best fits for Shugenja.

[Pluto]

You're not ever going to be able to access level 8 spells and the Shugenja's spell list is pretty weak. Their 7th level spells almost aren't worth having.

I think the best plan is to cut your losses and jump back into Swordsage or Master of the Nine for the last 3 levels. (I'd agree that a 1-level dip to Divine Oracle would be a good thing, if you can use CS's Frog God's Fane for entry: it gets you 6th level spells and bumps your IL just as far as a martial adept level would.) You can still get an 8th level stance and 2-3 9th level maneuvers pretty easily that way.

You could also use Masters of the Wild's Hexer. It matches fluff and is a really powerful class for divine casters who qualify. It's a 10/10 BA and 10/10 casting class that gives you some Wizard spells and Charisma-based debuffs. The Adept and Shugenja are the only classes that easily qualify, so you may as well milk that benefit of the class.

[vampire2948]

You're not ever going to be able to access level 8 spells and the Shugenja's spell list is pretty weak. Their 7th level spells almost aren't worth having.

I think the best plan is to cut your losses and jump back into Swordsage or Master of the Nine for the last 3 levels. (I'd agree that a 1-level dip to Divine Oracle would be a good thing, if you can use CS's Frog God's Fane for entry: it gets you 6th level spells and bumps your IL just as far as a martial adept level would.) You can still get an 8th level stance and 2-3 9th level maneuvers pretty easily that way.

You could also use Masters of the Wild's Hexer. It matches fluff and is a really powerful class for divine casters who qualify. It's a 10/10 BA and 10/10 casting class that gives you some Wizard spells and Charisma-based debuffs. The Adept and Shugenja are the only classes that easily qualify, so you may as well milk that benefit of the class.

I don't need to get 9th level spells, to be honest. The rest of the party likely won't be all that powerful by that level, with the potential exception of the Cleric and Psion. I think i'd be pretty strong relative to the rest of the group without such high level spell slots.

But thanks for your input, I'll take a look at the Master of Nine PRC.

[Yora]

In that case, may I suggest Sacred Exorcist 1 (DMM Persist cheese)/Contemplative 1 (pick the best offered by your faith)/Divine Oracle 2 (armored Evasion and Oracle Domain).
Looking at the planned build, I don't think the op is looking for a cheese plate. :smallwink: