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View Full Version : Converting a character from 3.5 to 4e.



Cartesian Demon
2010-03-06, 02:31 PM
My current character is a Lolth-touched Centaur Barbarian 1/War Hulk 4/Hulking Hurler 1, and we're switching systems now to 4e. How would I convert this character to 4e in the most optimal way? Thanks in advance.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-06, 02:38 PM
A...Lloth-Touched Centaur Barbarian?

:smalleek:

Um. With plenty of homebrew. I mean, it'd be simple to stat up as an NPC, but jeepers.

I'd say go for something like a home-brewed centaur race and then whack on a feat to represent Lloth-touched, along the lines of the Heritage feats. They often give a small (+2?) bonus to a limited bit of skillery, and an encounter power of some sort. Probably the Drow style Orb of Darkness and a +2 to stealth underground, or intimidate when used against males.

As for the centaur, well. This might help? (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Centaur_%284e_Race%29)
Seems reasonable balanced.

[edit] - Then just whatever barbarian stuff seems closest. Not very familiar with war-hulk, but hulking hurler is obvious enough. I'm told there are feats to buff up throwing random things, but I'm sure someone else can go into more detail re: class conversion.

Kylarra
2010-03-06, 02:42 PM
My current character is a Lolth-touched Centaur Barbarian 1/War Hulk 4/Hulking Hurler 1, and we're switching systems now to 4e. How would I convert this character to 4e in the most optimal way? Thanks in advance.You uh wouldn't. 4e doesn't have large player races or anything that can even approximate that kind of hulking hurler abuse.

But well...

Minotaur Barbarian with Improvised missile is probably your only option to replicate your ability to throw anything. I'd normally say bugbear, but 1D8->2D4 isn't much of a damage change, so you're better off with minotaur I think.

I guess maybe homebrew a heritage feat for lolth-touched, but it won't be anywhere near the same brokenness, bar DM fiat.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-06, 02:48 PM
Having had time to think it through, I feel that what I posted above should pretty much do it. The Homebrewed Centaur I linked gets bonus speed when charging, which matches pretty well with certain Barbarian builds.

Not sure how much use you'd get out of the iconic Orb of Darkness, but it could be amusing, tactically. Especially if, for example, you charge in from 10 squares away, pound him, then next round drop the orb and charge out. You've just smashed a guy up to 18 squares away in the teeth, but guy 1 doesn't even really know you've left.

If anyone tries to lock you down by flanking, you get your free racial at-will attack to kick him for his troubles. Take the right throwing-item-buff feats (Improvised missile?) and you've got a touch of the old hurler, too.

Kylarra
2010-03-06, 03:02 PM
Having had time to think it through, I feel that what I posted above should pretty much do it. The Homebrewed Centaur I linked gets bonus speed when charging, which matches pretty well with certain Barbarian builds.

Not sure how much use you'd get out of the iconic Orb of Darkness, but it could be amusing, tactically. Especially if, for example, you charge in from 10 squares away, pound him, then next round drop the orb and charge out. You've just smashed a guy up to 18 squares away in the teeth, but guy 1 doesn't even really know you've left.

If anyone tries to lock you down by flanking, you get your free racial at-will attack to kick him for his troubles. Take the right throwing-item-buff feats (Improvised missile?) and you've got a touch of the old hurler, too.
I don't really think there's any way to approximate hulking hurler in 4e personally. That centaur looks pretty good, but it'd be a pretty big paradigm shift from what an HH character would normally be capable of. Still, the homebrewed race is not as crazy as some of the other stuff on D&D wiki.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-06, 03:16 PM
Yeah, it's a pretty good find, really.

It's probably a warning sign though, classwise, that trying to read up on War-Hulk first brings me to a war-hulk-hurler-centaur build. :smallsmile:

Probably best if the OP posts what kind of things he'd like his horsedude to be able to do. If Hulking-Hurler cheese was the point of the character, then the conversion will be unlikely to be close. hehe

Serpentine
2010-03-06, 10:31 PM
4e doesn't have broken player templates (yet?) ... or hulking hurler abuse (eh probably unlikely to come ever)... but it won't be anywhere near the same brokenness, bar DM fiat.Projection, much? Unnecessary emotional judgements through loaded language? Because he wants this character, it must be the "brokenness" and "abuse" he wants? It may be that it's pure power he wants (and the "most optimal way" qualifier might support this idea) but it's unfair and unhelpful to incorporate judgement into your advice.

Kylarra
2010-03-06, 11:34 PM
Projection, much? Unnecessary emotional judgements through loaded language? Because he wants this character, it must be the "brokenness" and "abuse" he wants? It may be that it's pure power he wants (and the "most optimal way" qualifier might support this idea) but it's unfair and unhelpful to incorporate judgement into your advice.It's not projection. Lolth-touched is one of a select few templates fairly widely considered "broken" or at least "absurdly strong" for +1 LA. I recognize Hulking Hurler cheese for what it is. Heck, the first google result (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=hulking+hurler+build&aq=0&aqi=g3&aql=&oq=hulking+hurler+&fp=37cc007d907fcf6c) is a Lolth-Touched Centaur War Hulking hurler (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/War_Hulking_Hurler_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Bui ld%29).

It's certainly a powerful character, and knowing what it is capable of, I am simply pointing out that in 4e, there's nothing that can truly replicate that kind of destructive capability, but sure, I'll go ahead and edit it.

Blazen
2010-03-06, 11:54 PM
My god that Centaur race is just broken. The size, speed, floating stat, +2 speed on a charge, and an at-will power? Do people even bother trying to balance these things?

Mando Knight
2010-03-07, 12:35 AM
My god that Centaur race is just broken. The size, speed, floating stat, +2 speed on a charge, and an at-will power? Do people even bother trying to balance these things?

The access to oversized weapons might be broken, but the at-will isn't very good (locked at Str+2 against AC, weak 1d6 damage, immediate action, doesn't actually solve the problem it reacts to), and the floating stat bonus is in line with the PHB3 races.

Vitruviansquid
2010-03-07, 01:32 AM
The access to oversized weapons might be broken, but the at-will isn't very good (locked at Str+2 against AC, weak 1d6 damage, immediate action, doesn't actually solve the problem it reacts to), and the floating stat bonus is in line with the PHB3 races.

Consider this.

As a fighter with a relatively beefy weapon (say, a d10 Greatsword), I can use an at-will power that will give me Str + 2 vs. AC by trading in my strength boost to damage, doing only 5.5 average damage.

As a centaur with a +3 modifier to strength, which is actually downright bad considering I'm a race that gets the +2 strength bonus, I can kick at Str +2 vs. AC for 6.5 damage... and then attempt to hit a guy with a conventional attack on the same round because that was an immediate reaction. There are, furthermore, no rules limiting how many times I can kick or getting rid of my opportunity attacks if I should choose to kick.

Also remembers that minions go down in one hit regardless of how much damage the hit does. Having this kick means you will never be flanked by a minion ever.

Blazen
2010-03-07, 10:29 AM
Add to that Speed 8, Low-light vision (which is unneeded, but probably given because he is Fey), 2 more speed while charging, and an extra equipment slot. That is most assuredly broken.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-07, 11:53 AM
Possibly a little wonky. Given how it could have turned out, not terrible though. I didn't spot the large-weapon thing, though. Obvious really.

Personally, I'd probably allow it as long as the player wasn't known for munchkinery, but the Centaur would have to weild medium weapons like everyone else. (He has human sized hands, after all.)

Course, the first adventure would be through a Kobold Warren, with lots of tunnels the medium sized party members struggled with and one or two large-friendly kill zones perfectly normal corridors that the horsedude can fit in. :smallwink:

Sir Homeslice
2010-03-07, 12:02 PM
My god, you people don't know the meaning of broken. The only thing good about the Centaur is speed 8, and equine body. Quick Kick is worthless chaff the moment you're expected to have a +2 magic weapon.

Broken is used when something takes the game and beats it to death while singing songs of its people.

The Centaur is probably just hovering about overpowered, not broken.

Gralamin
2010-03-07, 12:38 PM
My god, you people don't know the meaning of broken. The only thing good about the Centaur is speed 8, and equine body. Quick Kick is worthless chaff the moment you're expected to have a +2 magic weapon.

Broken is used when something takes the game and beats it to death while singing songs of its people.

The Centaur is probably just hovering about overpowered, not broken.

I'd say its not even that. While at first glance it does look pretty powerful, The large essentially makes it just a bigger target. The speed 8 is very nice though, the quick is useless, charger is barely a bonus.

Equine Body, as currently listed is strong but not too strong. Notably it gets speed 9 very quickly, but it cannot get impenetrable Barding (Since it doesn't have a rider, it gets no resistance to damage - and thats the big one)

Yakk
2010-03-07, 01:06 PM
So, he's a level 13 character assuming this build:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/War_Hulking_Hurler_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Bui ld%29

He's... well, a centaur that throws things?

Let's homebrew a centaur.
+2 con +2 wis (centaurs have huge lower bodies, but their upper body is just human-sized -- str is mainly upper body strength)
Large size (2x2 space)
Relatively Small Arms (can only use medium-sized weapons, despite being large
+speed bonus
Minor other stuff.

For a class, let's go Ranger -- it has some great charge and throwing abilities, esp with martial power 2.

Lloth touched -- so you want some connection to the spider queen? The partculars of the stats are, I assume, not that important (it just looks like a bunch of "I am ridiculously strong for the cost of 1 character level" cheese).

A MC assassin could work well there, or a MC dark warlock -- both will give you access to shadow type powers. I like MC assassin -- being able to step into the shadows of creatures and out somewhere out is just cool. And Ki focus proficiency is well worth the feat cost.

I'll assume we are keeping your level constant -- level 13 -- instead of scaling it up with the edition change.

I'll use dwarf in the character builder, because that matches the stat ups I chose for my centaur.

There is a neat technique with hammers, so I'll use that route.


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Centaur Ranger, level 13
Dwarf, Ranger, Avalanche Hurler
Fighting Style: Marauder Fighting Style
Ranger: Running Attack

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 21, Dex 14, Int 9, Wis 14, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10.


AC: 25 Fort: 26 Reflex: 23 Will: 21
HP: 93 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +13, Perception +15, Heal +13, Athletics +14, Endurance +17, Stealth +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Arcana +5, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +10, History +5, Insight +8, Intimidate +6, Religion +5, Streetwise +6, Thievery +7

FEATS
Level 1: Elsir Hammer Student
Level 2: Elsir Hammer Stalker
Level 4: Acolyte of the Veil
Level 6: Focused Expertise (Ki Focus)
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Hammer)
Level 10: Manticore's Fury
Level 11: Weapon Proficiency (Craghammer)
Level 12: Hammer Rhythm

POWERS
Ranger at-will 1: Throw and Stab
Ranger at-will 1: Twin Strike
Ranger encounter 1: Dire Wolverine Strike
Ranger daily 1: Skirmishing Stance
Ranger utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Ranger encounter 3: Upending Throw
Ranger daily 5: Snarling Wolf Stance
Ranger utility 6: Weave Through the Fray
Ranger encounter 7: Toppling Rush
Ranger daily 9: Marked for Death
Ranger utility 10: Expeditious Stride
Ranger encounter 13: Quick Throw (replaces Dire Wolverine Strike)

ITEMS
Marauder's Earthhide Armor +3, Badge of the Berserker +3, Hawk's Talon Ki Focus +3, Craghammer, Throwing hammer, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Horned Helm (heroic tier), Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier), Dwarven Throwers (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

That is a first run at it.

He smashes things with hammers, he throws hammers, he charges things.

He has part of his soul replaced with shadowfel stuff, which lets him step into the shadows of creatures and out a different creature.

He's good at throwing hammers. He throws lots of hammers, very often.

When he charges, he doesn't provoke OAs. He does provoke when he doesn't charge.

When he misses with a melee attack, he does 5 auto damage.

Mando Knight
2010-03-07, 10:53 PM
Consider this.

As a fighter with a relatively beefy weapon (say, a d10 Greatsword), I can use an at-will power that will give me Str + 2 vs. AC by trading in my strength boost to damage, doing only 5.5 average damage.

As a centaur with a +3 modifier to strength, which is actually downright bad considering I'm a race that gets the +2 strength bonus, I can kick at Str +2 vs. AC for 6.5 damage... and then attempt to hit a guy with a conventional attack on the same round because that was an immediate reaction. There are, furthermore, no rules limiting how many times I can kick or getting rid of my opportunity attacks if I should choose to kick.

Also remembers that minions go down in one hit regardless of how much damage the hit does. Having this kick means you will never be flanked by a minion ever.
Immediate actions are 1/round total, meaning that it has to compete with the much more powerful class-granted immediate actions. Furthermore, it's got a pathetic hit rate, since it doesn't have the weapon keyword. Without the weapon or implement keywords, the power starts with low accuracy (only stat+2 against AC), and quickly ends up being useless since it can't get enhancement bonuses to attack or damage.