Battle Sorcerer vs. Duskblade

[mummy162]

I'm playing a Duskblade right now, and I'm much enjoying their mix of melee prowess and spellcasting (shocking touch is infinitely fun to channel through a +2 Greataxe of Shock. But then I saw the Battle Sorcerer Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer). At first glance they seem worse; they have lower base attack bonuses and poor fort saves, they don't get as many proficiencies, and they don't have as many class features that help them in close range, like arcane channeling. But they have access to powerful spells levels higher than the duskblade. And since the battle sorcerer can do some damage without spells, she can last longer in combat and can afford to learn a utility spell or two, like Bull's Strength or Mage Armor. So which plays better for you?

[AmberVael]

Duskblade. Battle Sorcerer is just a sorcerer with nerfs- it's not really worth it at all. If you want decent BAB with a sorcerer, you're better off going for prestige and multi-classing to make a gish.

[mikethepoor]

I've seen both played, and it depends on whether you like mostly melee with a little arcane support or a moderate amount of melee with substantial arcane support. Personally I'd prefer a duskblade, but I can't deny the sheer power of a battle sorcerer.

[mummy162]

Playing a Duskblade, I find that melee makes up most of your character, supplemented effectively by spontaneous casting. Battle sorcerers are just the flip, I guess. While they may not be as popular, you have to admit Dragonshape is pretty fun.

[Crow]

From my experience, Battle Sorcerers start out with more of a focus on their melee abilities, but as you get into higher levels focus more on their magic.

As others have said, Duskblade is melee with a splash of magic, while Battle Sorcerer is magic with a splash of melee.

Even with reduced spells, The Battle Sorcerer is going to be more versatile and useful to the party at high levels, and that's just with SRD spells. Once you start adding splatbooks it gets even worse.

[Pluto]

I like Battle Sorcerer quite a bit. Mostly because it's an OGL fighter-wizard that isn't a cleric.

Also, despite its bum rap for "cripplingly limited spells known," it knows more spells of higher levels than the standard Sorcadin builds. (Around level 14, the number of low levels spells that the Sorcadin can toss around might outweigh the Battle Sorc's one level 7, but even then I don't think it's as clear-cut as often suggested.) And it doesn't need to use Retraining rules to swap out spells as they become obselete - not a big bonus, but a plus IMO.

Battle Sorcerer has more room for custimization than the Duskblade. You can essentially make a superhero who does anything you want, picking and choosing from the thousands of options available to Wizards.

In terms of raw power, the Duskblade trumps the BS until around level 10. Then the BS can start pulling zany hijinx like Draconic Polymorph and semi-regular Wraithstrikes and things just get silly.

As far as the classes themselves, Duskblade is much more elegant. I'll definitely give it that. And it's more interesting, in terms of having distinct mechanics and actual class abilities rather than just repackaging the Bard/Sorcerer mechanic on a dry 3/4 BA/d8 HD template.

[Geiger Counter]

A battle sorcerer with arcane channeling would be awesome. I allow arcane channeling as a feat with the prereqs of combat casting and Somatic Weaponry.

[Raiki]

There's also the Stalwart Sorcerer substitution. I think it's out of CMage, but I could be wrong. I saw someone play a combination Battle/Stalwart sorc once, and while his spells known were very limited, he could actually hold his own in melee almost as well as the party swashbuckler. And the spells he *could* cast, he could still cast quite a bit.

~R~

[Hallavast]

From my experience, Battle Sorcerers start out with more of a focus on their melee abilities, but as you get into higher levels focus more on their magic.

As others have said, Duskblade is melee with a splash of magic, while Battle Sorcerer is magic with a splash of melee.

Even with reduced spells, The Battle Sorcerer is going to be more versatile and useful to the party at high levels, and that's just with SRD spells. Once you start adding splatbooks it gets even worse.

+1

My experience with them has been the same.

As far as splats go, my group tries to impliment the duskblade into splats by assigning the class additional sorcerer/wizard spells as they come up. We usually conference about this so that we don't overdo it or miss out on obvious opportunities (this works well, because we have some players who like the class and want to see it greatly expanded, while we have some players who are skeptical about giving classes new spells in general).

[arguskos]

+1

My experience with them has been the same.

As far as splats go, my group tries to impliment the duskblade into splats by assigning the class additional sorcerer/wizard spells as they come up. We usually conference about this so that we don't overdo it or miss out on obvious opportunities (this works well, because we have some players who like the class and want to see it greatly expanded, while we have some players who are skeptical about giving classes new spells in general).
Speaking of... Roland put together this list, which I stole and saved.

Duskblade spell list Expansion:
L0
Caltrops
Electric Jolt
Know Greatest Enemy
Launch Item
Stick

L1
Corrosive Grasp
Critical Strike
Deafening Clang
Fist of Stone
Ice Dagger
Lightfoot
Nerveskitter
Nightshield
Persistent Blade
Phantom Threat
Rhino's Rush
Snowshoes

L2
Battering Ram
Bladeweave
Body of the Sun
Bristle
Combust
Daggerspell Stance
Delusions of Grandeur
Fireburst
Flame Dagger
Infernal Wound
Ironthunder Horn
Mountain Stance
Rainbow Beam
Scorch
Shadow Spray
Weapon Shift
Wracking Touch

L3
Belker Claws
Body Blades
Clarity of Mind
Diamondsteel
Find the Gap
Knight's Move
Know Opponent
Moon Blade
Ring of Blades
Spectral Weapon
Spider Poison
Steeldance
Sppress Breath Weapon
Unluck
Whirling Blade

L4
Bands of Steel
Blindsight
Displacer Form
Flame Whips
Forcewave
Frost Breath
Lion's Charge
Mind Poison
Vulnerability

L5
Acid Sheath
Aura of Evasion
Charge of the Triceratops
Emerald Flame Fist
Fireburst, Greater
Girallon's Blessing
Ray Deflection
Translocation Trick

Complete Mage

Assassin Spells

Bloodletting (1)

Catsfeet (1)

Summon Weapon (2)

Rusted Blade (3) (or (4) as per Wiz/Sorc list)

Unseen Strike (4)



Wiz/Sorc Spells

Steam Jet (1)

Escalating Enfeeblement (2)

Heart of Air (2)

Tenacious Dispelling (3)

Heart of Water (3)

Prickling Torment (3)

Heart of Earth (4)

Crypt Warden's Grasp (5)

Touch of Vecna (5)

Heart of Fire (5)

Tactical Teleportation (6) as (5)