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Geiger Counter
2010-03-07, 06:41 PM
Title says it all.
Eberron deities and Fiendish royalty count too.

FoE
2010-03-07, 06:43 PM
A tie between the 4E versions of Asmodeus and Bane. I lean a bit to the latter.

Longcat
2010-03-07, 06:46 PM
Greyhawk: Asmodeus or Hextor
Forgotten Realms: Mask

Raiki
2010-03-07, 06:50 PM
Vecna. He is the embodiment of all evil deities.
Oh dark keeper, in your shadow we are sheltered. By your knowledge we are sustained. Through your power we are hidden. Mine eye, Mine hand, Mine soul belong to thee.
~R~

arguskos
2010-03-07, 06:52 PM
Loviatar, hands down.

Deastorm
2010-03-07, 06:59 PM
Partial to Graz'zt and Loki.

Starscream
2010-03-07, 07:21 PM
Vecna rules. So does Asmodeus.

Moose Fisher
2010-03-07, 07:24 PM
Vecna: So evil his dismembered body parts are evil artifacts.

Frozen_Feet
2010-03-07, 07:24 PM
Khorne and Morgoth make the top of the list for me.

Gnorman
2010-03-07, 07:32 PM
Fear the Black Hand of Bane!

Volkov
2010-03-07, 07:32 PM
Vecna, because of all the villains of D&D, he was the closest to absolute and total domination of his home universe.

GenPol
2010-03-07, 07:34 PM
Pelor.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor,_the_Burning_Hate


Bet you didn't expect that! :smalltongue:

Volkov
2010-03-07, 07:37 PM
Pelor.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558798/Pelor,_the_Burning_Hate


Bet you didn't expect that! :smalltongue:

Vecna would have destroyed Pelor, Nerul, Heironeous, Asmodeus, and every other major power in the universe if the heroes faltered in their task by even the slightest.

Beelzebub1111
2010-03-07, 07:45 PM
The Dark Six have the coolest name of any evil pantheon.

But I think my favorite Evil (adimtidly leaning) god is Ralishaz: The god of Bad Luck.

Yora
2010-03-07, 07:49 PM
Shar is way cool, but at the end of the day, I'd always chose Graz'zt. :smallbiggrin:

AbyssKnight
2010-03-07, 07:51 PM
Lolth, Spider Queen of the Drow.

Felyndiira
2010-03-07, 07:53 PM
Lolth. Not hard to guess at all.

If we're talking about the nine, abyss, etc., then probably Zariel; I quite like playing the fallen priestess bent on overthrowing Bel.

MlleRouge
2010-03-07, 07:55 PM
Hextor, with Vecna a respectable second. In FR, Loviatar (sp?) is pretty awesome too, though my knowledge of the Realms is a bit limited in comparison with Greyhawk.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-07, 07:58 PM
Seterous. Because he can so stomp any deity in his path.


And he grants every single domain in existence.

a_humble_lich
2010-03-07, 08:10 PM
"Ph-nhlui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"

JoshuaZ
2010-03-07, 08:14 PM
Banjulhu.

Although apparently the official church claims he is lawful evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32496) and I've always thought of him as a bit more neutral evil.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-07, 08:18 PM
Asmodeus. (A man of wealth and taste, after all).
As of 4th ed, I must say Generic-setting-Bane is actually pretty cool too, but he just doesn't compete.


I am partial to the Goddess of Adventurers (ie, greedy murdering hobos); Tiamat.

Thurbane
2010-03-07, 08:28 PM
Since Greyhawk is my preferred setting, I'd have to say Iuz. Maybe Vecna.

Scorpions__
2010-03-07, 08:31 PM
Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and Nerull all top my list, I think I might start a tally of all this... Indeed...

Current High-Rankers: Asmodeus = 10 Vecna = 10 Graz'zt = 5 Tharizdun = 4

Ares = 1
Asmodeus = 10
Bane = 2
Banjulhu = 1
Balinor = 1
Belsameth = 1
Chemosh = 1
Cthulhu = 1
Cyric = 2
The Dark Six = 1
Dagon = 1
Demogorgon = 2
Doresain = 1
Eberron's Inspired = 1
Gaarl Glittergold = 1
Graz'zt = 5
Gruumsh = 1
Hecate = 2
Hextor = 3
Iuz = 1
Khorne = 1
Kurtulmak = 1
Lady of Pain = 1
Loki = 2
Lolth = 2
Loviatar = 3
Malar = 1
Mask = 2
Mephistopheles = 2
Morgoth = 1
Mork & Gork = 1
Nerull = 2
Norgorber = 1
Nuitari = 1
Orcus = 2
Pazuzu = 3
Pelor = 3
Shar = 2
Slaanesh = 3
Ralishaz = 1
Talona = 1
Tharizdun = 4
Tiamat = 2
Torog = 1
The Traveler = 1
TROGDOOR! = 1
Tzeentch = 1
Umberlee = 1
Urgathoa = 1
Vecna = 10
Vhaeraun = 1
Wasrti = 1
Wee Jas = 2

Wo0t go Asmo! I mean, come on, he has his own song after all...

(To the tune of that 'Armadaus' song from the car commercial) "Asmodayus, asmodayus, asmodayus, asmodayus, asmodayus!..."

blueblade
2010-03-07, 08:31 PM
Cyric. One of the earliest DnD book series I read was the time of troubles, and it kind of stuck.

Scorpions__
2010-03-07, 08:34 PM
I can't believe no one's said Orcus...





DM[F]R

Riffington
2010-03-07, 08:41 PM
Loviatar, hands down.

Loviatar, hands bound.

Thurbane
2010-03-07, 08:43 PM
(To the tune of that 'Armadaus' song from the car commercial) "Asmodayus, asmodayus, asmodayus, asmodayus, asmodayus!..."
*cough splutter*

CAR COMMERCIAL!?!

Sir, have you never heard of Falco?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U990QFyvN3M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKGaYTx2jaM

Inhuman Bot
2010-03-07, 08:46 PM
Slaanesh, from the Warhammer RPGs.


:smallwink:

Masaioh
2010-03-07, 08:48 PM
Slaanesh, Graz'zt or Pazuzu.

arguskos
2010-03-07, 08:50 PM
Loviatar, hands bound.
Indeed, indeed. :smallwink: As is the point my friend.

Scorpions__
2010-03-07, 08:50 PM
*cough splutter*

CAR COMMERCIAL!?!

Sir, have you never heard of Falco?


Can't say I have, I do apologize, thanks for the video though, I am now aware.





DM[F]R

Akulatraxis
2010-03-07, 08:51 PM
Going to have to second Pelor. Recently ran a 4.0 campaign revolving around some of his priests who had recently embraced the burning hate idea. The PC’s spent most of the campaign assuming they were just impostors not faithful worshippers.

BenTheJester
2010-03-07, 08:52 PM
Vecna. He is the embodiment of all evil deities.


~R~

No he's not. He's evil and all, but he's absolutely not the embodiment of all evil deities. He's just one of the most powerful(and planning) being.



I like Asmodeus and how he lawyered all the good gods

I like The Lady of Pain(although she's not really evil) for her sheer power

I love Vecna, but I could never bring myself to play a Cleric of him. When I play clerics I want to be respected by my god, I don't want to be just a pawn.

Nerull is amongst my top as well, although he doesn't respect his clerics more than Vecna does, being an embodiment of Death itself is awesome.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-03-07, 08:54 PM
No items. Vecna only. Final Destination.

Set
2010-03-07, 08:57 PM
Greyhawk - Wee Jas
Realms - Loviatar or Talona
Scarred Lands - Belsameth
Golarion - Urgathoa

I seem to like the bad girls...

BenTheJester
2010-03-07, 08:58 PM
*cough splutter*

CAR COMMERCIAL!?!

Sir, have you never heard of Falco?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U990QFyvN3M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKGaYTx2jaM


And here I was thinking the Simpson's did it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BWSNt38dUc&feature=related) first


(Not really)

arguskos
2010-03-07, 09:03 PM
Greyhawk - Wee Jas
Realms - Loviatar or Talona
Scarred Lands - Belsameth
Golarion - Urgathoa

I seem to like the bad girls...
Nothing wrong with that. :smallamused:

Also, Talona? Really? Ugh, the whole "poison" thing really just puts me off. :smalltongue:

Akulatraxis
2010-03-07, 09:10 PM
Nothing necessarily wrong with poisons, as long as you choose them carefully…. Alcohol certainly has its up sides. :smallbiggrin:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-07, 09:11 PM
Greyhawk: Vecna (see sig), wee jas and Tiamat.
Forgotten Realms: Mask, because one of my favorite prg classes (Tellflamar Shadow Lord) is devoted to him
Eberron: Balinor and the Traveler.

Infernal Hierarchy
Devils: Mephistopheles and Asmodeous

Demons:Orcus

DragoonWraith
2010-03-07, 09:22 PM
Hmm... I think probably Asmodeus. There's something incredibly badass about what he's pulled off.

Optimystik
2010-03-07, 09:27 PM
Shar ftw.


Wee Jas


Wee Jas

Fail

deathpigeon
2010-03-07, 09:55 PM
FR: Shar
D&D 4e: Torog

Thurbane
2010-03-07, 10:54 PM
Can't say I have, I do apologize, thanks for the video though, I am now aware.





DM[F]R
No probs, I was just kidding around. It was a big hit when I was young. :smallbiggrin:

faceroll
2010-03-07, 10:57 PM
Mork & Gork.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-03-07, 10:58 PM
Shar ftw.

I must admit that my knowlege (forgotten realms) is pretty low, the only gods from that setting that I know are, The mask (Telflamar Shadow lord), mieleki (Drit'zz books), lolth and IIRC both bahamut and tiamat appear on the FR.

So I don't about Shar :smallredface:

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-07, 11:03 PM
I retract my previous vote.



The best evil deity is none other than TROGDOOOOOOOOOR!

Ashram
2010-03-08, 12:33 AM
Greyhawk: Nerull.
Golarion: Norgorber (Retarded name, but I love the idea of a quintessential evil rogue/assassin god. Plus, you can't argue with the one evil god that ascended from being a mortal.)

blueblade
2010-03-08, 12:56 AM
Mork & Gork.

Mork and Gork ain't evil, theyz just CUNNIN' and BRUTAL

arguskos
2010-03-08, 01:06 AM
Mork and Gork ain't evil, theyz just CUNNIN' and BRUTAL
Or wuz dat BRUTAL un CUNNIN'? I's neva remembas.

Nuke
2010-03-08, 03:20 AM
I'm actually kind of surprised nobody has said this yet, but Tharizdun is easily my favorite evil deity. I mean he's the god of entropy. ::biggrin:

Ogremindes
2010-03-08, 03:55 AM
Or wuz dat BRUTAL un CUNNIN'? I's neva remembas.


“Dere’s jus’ one difference
‘tween Gorkers an’ Morkers,
Gorkers is brutal but cunning
Morkers is cunning but brutal”

As for my favourite, probably Slaanesh.

Nai_Calus
2010-03-08, 05:36 AM
Vhaeraun. :smallcool:

Devils_Advocate
2010-03-08, 06:44 AM
Another vote for Vecna. As someone once put it, he essentially is the Batman Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002). He's canonically responsible for the differences between 2E and 3E D&D. Ascending to divinity and actually altering the laws of the multiverse to make them more favorable to spellcasters is some fairly impressive in-game optimization. Plus he grabbed pretty much the most ridiculously useful Portfolio Sense possible, becoming aware of basically every important secret. Vecna plots to destroy the other gods and bring the multiverse under his personal rule, and I wouldn't rule out his eventual success.

Grifthin
2010-03-08, 06:53 AM
If going purely by d&d - Loviatar, hands bound.

If all time favourites, from favourites down -

Tzeentch
Slaanesh
Khorne
Nurgle

Eldan
2010-03-08, 06:54 AM
The Big A (smodeus), followed closely by a tie between Vecna and Orcus, both for sheer overpoweredness and campaignchangingness (that's now a word.)

Optimystik
2010-03-08, 06:58 AM
Plus he grabbed pretty much the most ridiculously useful Portfolio Sense possible, becoming aware of basically every important secret. Vecna plots to destroy the other gods and bring the multiverse under his personal rule, and I wouldn't rule out his eventual success.

I would just like to note: Deities & Demigods states that his portfolio sense can only ping on secrets that affect 500 people or more. It's unclear if said secret has to affect that many people at the time it is spoken to qualify, or if he can even know secrets that just have the potential to affect that many people.

The most important secrets in the setting should still reach his ear sockets, but it doesn't mean they all will.

Amiel
2010-03-08, 07:04 AM
Another vote for Vecna. As someone once put it, he essentially is the Batman Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002). He's canonically responsible for the differences between 2E and 3E D&D. Ascending to divinity and actually altering the laws of the multiverse to make them more favorable to spellcasters is some fairly impressive in-game optimization. Plus he grabbed pretty much the most ridiculously useful Portfolio Sense possible, becoming aware of basically every important secret. Vecna plots to destroy the other gods and bring the multiverse under his personal rule, and I wouldn't rule out his eventual success.

Die Vecna Die never happened.


The Lady of Pain; but don't tell Her I said that, I'll get flayed!


No love for the underused and underrated deities?
Panzuriel
Faluzure
Chronepsis
Blibdoolpoolp
Garyx

onthetown
2010-03-08, 07:10 AM
Nuitari and Chemosh from Dragonlance. Just because.

Edit: Vhaeraun is a close third.

The_Snark
2010-03-08, 07:19 AM
I'm rather fond of Eberron's Inspired. Sure, they're a little unorthodox: they have good publicity, they don't preach evil for evil's sake, and of course, they're not actually deities at all... but I feel that evil religions should be rewarded for being utterly fraudulent, not punished.

Especially if the architects of the religion use it to set themselves up as gods and convert a continent full of people into happy, loyal worshippers...

... and doubly so when they use their good publicity to cover up the sometimes-open, sometimes-secret genocidal war they're waging against their ancestral foes. Extra credit for getting away with it—most evil religions have terrible publicity, and are foiled on a regular basis, but the only people who've caught on to the Inspired are the kalashtar and their close allies. More extra credit for not even caring about the worshippers they deceive, or the temporal power they hold; the whole millennium-long plan is a means to an end, an irritating but necessary diversion from what most of them would rather be doing.

And even when you know all of this... you can still come up with twisted justifications for it. Great for the kind of villain who likes playing for sympathy.

Volkov
2010-03-08, 07:47 AM
Die Vecna Die never happened.


The Lady of Pain; but don't tell Her I said that, I'll get flayed!


No love for the underused and underrated deities?
Panzuriel
Faluzure
Chronepsis
Blibdoolpoolp
Garyx

{scrubbed}

And yes it DID. Your just upset because your paladin was forced to fall aren't you?

Coplantor
2010-03-08, 07:52 AM
Vecna, by far the most cunning and evil deity, and he started from scratch.

Amiel
2010-03-08, 07:59 AM
{Scrubbed}

Your powers of observation truly astound me.
It was deadpan.


And yes it DID

Lies.
Who desires constant praise and affirmation of their glorified status within the multiverse? Vecna
Who threw a temper tantrum when things did not go according to his plan? Vecna
Who conveniently usurped the authorship of a tome of knowledge for the express purpose of galvanising their reputation? Vecna


Your just upset because your paladin was forced to fall aren't you?

:smallconfused: What?

Aik
2010-03-08, 08:03 AM
Hecate - sure, her D&D incarnation took out a lot of her portfolios, but they did quite a good job on making her evilness interesting, and her realm is snazzy.

And in my recent Planescaping, I've become interested in Kiaransalee. Well, mostly her realm, because it's snazzy, but there's quite a bit about the goddess herself to like.
'course, apparently they've killed her and pretty much the entire drow pantheon while I wasn't paying attention. ... I think I'll just continue not paying attention.

Myrkul was pretty cool too. Guess I have a thing for dead gods of the dead?

Closak
2010-03-08, 08:38 AM
Tiamat.

Simply put, she's a dragon, and she's sexy :smallbiggrin:

*Hides from angry mob*

Thane of Fife
2010-03-08, 09:19 AM
I'm not sure why, but I've always kind of liked Malar.

And while I can't say I like Liart, he certainly inspires a bit more emotion than most evil gods.

Clovis
2010-03-08, 09:29 AM
I'm surprised no-ones yet mentioned the most evil, the bloodthirstyest, the most vengeance-driven god of them all, the embodiment of lawful evil

the DM.

Followed closely the chaotic evil ones, who always let us down at the most inopportune moment

the demon dice.

Well, seriously, my vote goes for Big A, especially as portrayed in the Dicefreaks' The Gates of Hell'. And then Lolth.

THE_BIG_CHEESE
2010-03-08, 09:57 AM
Hmm...this is an extremely fun topic, I've always liked researching my D&D evil deities/close-to-deities. Let's see here...it's a toss up between four of them, but I'll attempt at a ranking. First is Vecna, there is no doubt about that. He did prove the old mantra of "Unbreakable rules of the universe were meant to be broken". Few others can claim as illustrious a resume as rerouting the flow of time while simultaneously cutting off all other (save one) gods from the material plane such that, in a few moments, you become the only greater deity in existence. As well, managing to fool the Dark Powers (who up until that point seemed effectively omnipotent and omniscient within the demiplane of dread) and completely ignoring the punishment meted out to him, which virtually everyone else sucumbs to. Then leaving the demiplane of dread of his own volition...easier said than done. Then, not to mention, he enters Sigil as a greater deity and effectively rewires the universe. Plus he's recorded as being the most powerful mortal mage in an entire campaign setting. Other beings may be "more evil", but many they just don't show it like Vecna does.

Next comes Bane. Ah, Bane. After he and Myrkul stole the tablets of fate, all of the gods in the Realms were called before Ao. At Ao's very presence, every single other god (yes all of them) were immediately on the ground bowing in his presence. Except Bane. Bane, respectul of Ao's power yet still BA enough (by the way BA are the first two letters of his name...just sayin) only goes down on one knee in front of Ao, a simple act that reveals his entire character. Bane for killing a large portion of the worshippers of Bhaal, a former ally, simply to make himself more awesome. Bane for having more class levels than I thought was possible (and just check out his second edition version...yeesh, he was like level 85). Bane for, despite his belief in oppressing the weak, taking up the lowly and underused gauntlet and showing people what it could really do when you made it unholy and cleaving. Bane because when he died, I think it was 30+ seperate nations declared that day a national holiday out of their joy that he was gone. And of course, last but not least, Bane for, after his supposed death, simply (and without much explanation) erupting later out of his son's body, lady-in-a-cake style.

The next two have less justification, but the next on the list is Tharizdun (Big T) (and the 2nd and 3rd edition Tharizdun, not the wimpy 4e Tharizdun). Tharizdun for being simple and straightforward in his goals: He wants to destroy everything. Tharizdun as well because when he first showed up, he was considered so evil, that even the other gods of evil said to the gods of good "sure we're nasty and such, but hey at least we're not that guy", which was followed by an alliance of all the good, evil, and neutral deities against him, and they STILL COULDN'T KILL HIM. Then when he was imprisoned, there were teeny tiny little leaks in the prison where a fraction of his power and influence could escape, and that little itty bit that can get out is the equivalent of an intermediate deity (the actual rank varies based on source). His name is tantamount to blasphemy in most churches, and the mention of his cult is enough to rouse a crusade of paladins.

Finally, Dagon. Dagon I like, at the least because he's an unabashed Lovecraft reference (and I do love my craft). Dagon too because...well because none of the other abyssal lords, despite all their nastiness, mess with him, out of fear it would seem. Dagon for making you afraid of water and yet luring you to it simultaneously (I imagine heads exploding). Dagon, finally, for when the Queen of Chaos was recruiting for her little war, she killed those who refused. Except Dagon. Dagon said no, and she didn't even mess with him, that's how awesome he is.

Apologies for the essay, but fictional villains are a subject I do my best to be well-versed in.

Scorpions__
2010-03-08, 10:23 AM
Seems to be a real toss-up between Asmodeus and Vecna around here.





DM[F]R

Critical
2010-03-08, 10:31 AM
Ares, if Olympic Pantheon is allowed. I mean, come on, look at his picture in Deities & Demigods. It's awesome.
Original D&D - Vecna.
FR - a tie between Lolth and Lorviatar.

deuxhero
2010-03-08, 10:32 AM
Umberlee, primarily because she has more to her domains than "evil torture murder lolz".

Coplantor
2010-03-08, 10:33 AM
Seems to be a real toss-up between Asmodeus and Vecna around here.





DM[F]R

And since Asmodeous has been god for only 1/4th of the game editions (yeah yeah, I know, I'm not counting OD&D, sue me), Vecna is clearly the winner.

Scorpions__
2010-03-08, 10:53 AM
Silence Coplanter! You know not of what you speak!

Besides, it says at the start of the forum that Infernal Royalty is allowed so, Asmodeus is valid. It also says in FCII that gods give him berth. That's how sick he is, gods fear the might of Asmo!





DM[F]R

Crafty Cultist
2010-03-08, 11:23 AM
I'm a fan of mephistophiles myself. He rules cania with style

Devils_Advocate
2010-03-08, 11:53 AM
Ares, if Olympic Pantheon is allowed. I mean, come on, look at his picture in Deities & Demigods. It's awesome.
Ooh. Ares, perhaps, deserves special mention.

Gods from real-world mythology tend to get... re-purposed into the game's standardized divine roles in D&D. Yet it's also kinda implied that the original stories about them still apply; heck, were this not the case, they'd just be new gods with borrowed names, amirite? But this doesn't really quite gel. In their original mythology, Zeus and Aphrodite weren't really "Chaotic Good" so much as "self-serving hedonists". Hades, on the other hand, wasn't really any more evil than a typical Greek god, despite abducting a goddess to imprison her in the Underworld forever and make her his queen.

And then there's Ares.

Ares pretty much was Chaotic Evil. Ares didn't promote war as an honorable means of conflict resolution or as a way for brave men to earn glory or even as a way of culling the weak and leaving the strong. Ares favored war as a means of killing loads of people. He'd temporarily support the losing side, not because he was sympathetic to the underdog, but purely to prolong the conflict. He didn't care who won, just so long as much blood was spilled on both sides. Athena was the goddess of strategic, purposeful warfare, possibly because Ares refused to have anything to do with that. Ares was the embodiment of bloodlust, and bloodshed. Next to him, Zeus seems downright nice. And that's saying something.

There's a sort of savage purity to that sort of unmitigated, unrestrained, absolute brutality. It's... really fairly impressive. At a certain point, I guess you sort of shoot past "villain" and move towards something more like "awe-inspiring force of nature". 'Cause man. It's kind of disturbing to say this, but I can sort of see how Aphrodite would find him sexy.


And since Asmodeous has been god for only 1/4th of the game editions (yeah yeah, I know, I'm not counting OD&D, sue me), Vecna is clearly the winner.
But the first post clearly says "Fiendish royalty count too", and I think that Asmodeus has been an archdevil for a lot longer than Vecna has been a god. Archfiends are practically demigods anyway. How many of your precious "deities" control an entire planar layer, huh? Yeah, that's what I thought. :smalltongue:

Man, can you imagine Asmodeus versus Vecna? That would be like Batman versus Doctor Doom, but moreso.

SoC175
2010-03-08, 12:44 PM
Forgotten Realms: Cyric
Greyhawk: Tharizdun

Volkov
2010-03-08, 12:51 PM
Ooh. Ares, perhaps, deserves special mention.

Gods from real-world mythology tend to get... re-purposed into the game's standardized divine roles in D&D. Yet it's also kinda implied that the original stories about them still apply; heck, were this not the case, they'd just be new gods with borrowed names, amirite? But this doesn't really quite gel. In their original mythology, Zeus and Aphrodite weren't really "Chaotic Good" so much as "self-serving hedonists". Hades, on the other hand, wasn't really any more evil than a typical Greek god, despite abducting a goddess to imprison her in the Underworld forever and make her his queen.

And then there's Ares.

Ares pretty much was Chaotic Evil. Ares didn't promote war as an honorable means of conflict resolution or as a way for brave men to earn glory or even as a way of culling the weak and leaving the strong. Ares favored war as a means of killing loads of people. He'd temporarily support the losing side, not because he was sympathetic to the underdog, but purely to prolong the conflict. He didn't care who won, just so long as much blood was spilled on both sides. Athena was the goddess of strategic, purposeful warfare, possibly because Ares refused to have anything to do with that. Ares was the embodiment of bloodlust, and bloodshed. Next to him, Zeus seems downright nice. And that's saying something.

There's a sort of savage purity to that sort of unmitigated, unrestrained, absolute brutality. It's... really fairly impressive. At a certain point, I guess you sort of shoot past "villain" and move towards something more like "awe-inspiring force of nature". 'Cause man. It's kind of disturbing to say this, but I can sort of see how Aphrodite would find him sexy.


But the first post clearly says "Fiendish royalty count too", and I think that Asmodeus has been an archdevil for a lot longer than Vecna has been a god. Archfiends are practically demigods anyway. How many of your precious "deities" control an entire planar layer, huh? Yeah, that's what I thought. :smalltongue:

Man, can you imagine Asmodeus versus Vecna? That would be like Batman versus Doctor Doom, but moreso.
Vecna can cast as an epic level wizard and as a high level cleric, asmodeus can only cast as a dinky level 20 cleric. Vecna crushes asmodeus in a fight.

d13
2010-03-08, 12:54 PM
The Dark Six, any day.-

Raiki
2010-03-08, 12:58 PM
Vecna can cast as an epic level wizar and as a high level cleric, asmodeus can only cast as a dinky level 20 cleric. Vecna crushes asmodeus in a fight.

This. And on top of all the "wait? wtf? why did the world just end?" that you can do with epic magic, Vecna actually has divine rank. Asmodeus, even if granted a courtesy divine rank of 0-2, just can't stand up to Vecna's rank of...what was it? I think around 8-10?

This being a post about Vecna, this text has been hidden for posterity.
~R~

Devils_Advocate
2010-03-08, 01:07 PM
I had sort of assumed that they would face off in an elaborate game of sinister machinations, incomprehensible to mortal minds, that spanned the planes. Not combat. Sheesh.

ghost_warlock
2010-03-08, 01:12 PM
Doresain and I will be feasting on the corpses of all of you, and your gods.

Optimystik
2010-03-08, 01:36 PM
I had sort of assumed that they would face off in an elaborate game of sinister machinations, incomprehensible to mortal minds, that spanned the planes. Not combat. Sheesh.

Such is the problem that arises when mortal minds attempt to quantify immortal ability :smalltongue:

Two gods clashing wouldn't do much, besides allow a third to come along and nab both of their portfolios. Such overt conflict just isn't smart.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 01:53 PM
I say Orcus, Vecna, and *gulp* Grummsh

*Hides with Closak*

chiasaur11
2010-03-08, 01:54 PM
No-one said Kurtulmak yet?

Shame on you all. Unless nobody mentioned him because the goal of killing Garl Glittergold is assumed to be an inherently heroic and noble one, making him a poor choice for an evil deity.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 01:58 PM
No-one said Kurtulmak yet?

Shame on you all. Unless nobody mentioned him because the goal of killing Garl Glittergold is assumed to be an inherently heroic and noble one, making him a poor choice for an evil deity.

I was gonna say Kurtulmak, but I didn't want to butcher his spelling (because then He would rise from my buddy's character sheet and blow me up)

The Glyphstone
2010-03-08, 01:58 PM
Tharizdun. No plotting, no plans, no complicated schemes, just 'kill it all', and so evil even the other evil gods won't hang out with him at parties. Doesn't get more evil than that.

Callos_DeTerran
2010-03-08, 02:22 PM
Top three? Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and Dagon. These are creatures of evil above all else to me if for not other reason then Vecna himself could very well be a pawn of Asmodeus, that Demogorgon's own worst enemy is himself and NOT the rest of the multiverse, and Dagon...Well...the Demonomicon entry for Dagon sealed it for me. Only in the cruelest of moods would I ever send my PCs to Shadowsea now.

Volkov
2010-03-08, 03:48 PM
I had sort of assumed that they would face off in an elaborate game of sinister machinations, incomprehensible to mortal minds, that spanned the planes. Not combat. Sheesh.

Vecna has higher mental stats than the BoVD's asmodeus. So he'd still win.

Tome
2010-03-08, 04:07 PM
Pelor the Burning Hate, because it fits with my desire to snuff out the sun and have it count as a good act. Undoubtedly my favourite evil deity.

Tharizdun gets points for being the embodiment of entropy.

In Eberron, I'm partial to the Shadow and the Traveller.

In Exalted, Adorjan is awesome.

Mandatory mention of Vecna and Asmodeus.

Octopus Jack
2010-03-08, 04:10 PM
It's got to be Pazuzu he is just pure awesome

BRC
2010-03-08, 04:12 PM
Pazuzu the burning Venca.

FoE
2010-03-08, 04:20 PM
I wasn't aware that Demon Princes counted as deities. I mean, I would have picked Graz'zt otherwise.

Shademan
2010-03-08, 04:38 PM
Hextor!
then Vecna.

AslanCross
2010-03-08, 05:16 PM
Bane. Now that's a magnificent bastard. He got killed in an epic duel with Torm, the LG god of duty, and was replaced by his son.

Then he announced his return to all his former clerics by showing them a dream of him erupting from the scorched corpse of his son.

As much as I like Eberron, the deities are just too distant to do anything like this.
I think the Mockery is pretty frightening, though. His holy symbol is a set of bloody scalpels put together in mockery of the Sovereign Host's symbol. He's a deity of unjust war, dishonor and vengeance. I think it's pretty cool that gods of trickery and dishonor aren't always rogue-types. His monks? Flayed. :smalleek:

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-08, 05:29 PM
Vecna has higher mental stats than the BoVD's asmodeus. So he'd still win.

Speaking from 4e's perspective (and bearing in mind that since the new edition, Asmodeus is now one of the more powerful gods. Looking at the poll in this thread, it's no suprise that both he and Vecna made it onto the new list, eh?) I'm not sure that Vecna is exactly the shoe in he may once have been, following the stats.

Let's put it this way, Vecna is a level 35 solo controller. He's pretty nasty, being as he is 5 levels higher than players can even reach, with plenty of tasty abilities and flavourful stuff. As a 4e god, any group of players hoping to face him have to go on some kind of Epic Quest just to be able to fight him to the finish (otherwise they get to discorporate at Bloodied).

But I'm pretty sure that if the same epic party had two doors, and behind one is Vecna on his own, and behind the other is Tiamat on her own...
Well, I'd vote for charging Vecna, myself. Tiamat is exponentially more brutal, really.

If they even Stat Asmodeus eventually, then things could get really interesting.

As for otherwise, I understand Vecna believes himself to be descended from a giant cosmic serpent? I'll point you to the relevant wiki bit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mok%27slyk#Mok.27slyk);

Particularly,

Other rumors include that the Serpent is a guise of Asmodeus, or that the Serpent doesn't exist at all.


Queue inevitable 'I am your Father' moment. Also;

http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/star-wars-male-bonding.jpg

No no, I know. Unlikely. The Serpent taught Vecna magic, and Asmodeus would never misleed someone for his own convaluted reasons!

Volkov
2010-03-08, 05:32 PM
Speaking from 4e's perspective (and bearing in mind that since the new edition, Asmodeus is now one of the more powerful gods. Looking at the poll in this thread, it's no suprise that both he and Vecna made it onto the new list, eh?) I'm not sure that Vecna is exactly the shoe in he may once have been, following the stats.

Let's put it this way, Vecna is a level 35 solo controller. He's pretty nasty, being as he is 5 levels higher than players can even reach, with plenty of tasty abilities and flavourful stuff. As a 4e god, any group of players hoping to face him have to go on some kind of Epic Quest just to be able to fight him to the finish (otherwise they get to discorporate at Bloodied).

But I'm pretty sure that if the same epic party had two doors, and behind one is Vecna on his own, and behind the other is Tiamat on her own...
Well, I'd vote for charging Vecna, myself. Tiamat is exponentially more brutal, really.

If they even Stat Asmodeus eventually, then things could get really interesting.

As for otherwise, I understand Vecna believes himself to be descended from a giant cosmic serpent? I'll point you to the relevant wiki bit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mok%27slyk#Mok.27slyk);

Particularly,



Queue inevitable 'I am your Father' moment. Also;

http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/star-wars-male-bonding.jpg

No no, I know. Unlikely. The Serpent taught Vecna magic, and Asmodeus would never misleed someone for his own convaluted reasons!
Asmodeus can only cast as a cleric, the serpent is arcane magic itself. No one with more than a few ranks in spellcraft will ever be fooled if asmodeus tried it.

JonestheSpy
2010-03-08, 05:40 PM
I'm quite fond of Wasrti the Hopping Prophet from Greyhawk, a demi-god who taught a doctrine of human superiority and hatred of all other races - orcs, goblins and the like being fit to be slaves and servants, but dwarves, elves and other good or neutral races deserving only of extinction. The fact that Wastri had apparently mutated into some amphibian/human creature didn't seem to get in the way of this doctrine, which nicely shows up the hypocricy that's so typical in real-life racists.

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/images/e/ea/Wastri.jpg

Funny how he looks like an amalgamation of every Fox News personality, isn't it?

I also like Wastri because he's actually a foe that a party could have a snowball's chance in the City of Brass of actually defeating for real in a campaign that's not about insane power levels.

Also some appreciation for Iuz, Greyhawks's answer to Sauron, and good old Demogogrgon.

BenTheJester
2010-03-08, 05:49 PM
I know the way to real power is to be secretive about your plans and all(cue Vecna), but I love how Meph is vocal about his plans. That's a real man. Not hiding behind petty schemes.


I'd like to nominate Garl Glittergold. Something just seem off about him. I don't trust this maniacal god of trickery one bit. If you ask me, the Burning Hate is nothing compared to what the God of Gnomes prepares.

Volkov
2010-03-08, 05:50 PM
I'm quite fond of Wasrti the Hopping Prophet from Greyhawk, a demi-god who taught a doctrine of human superiority and hatred of all other races - orcs, goblins and the like being fit to be slaves and servants, but dwarves, elves and other good or neutral races deserving only of extinction. The fact that Wastri had apparently mutated into some amphibian/human creature didn't seem to get in the way of this doctrine, which nicely shows up the hypocricy that's so typical in real-life racists.

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/images/e/ea/Wastri.jpg

Funny how he looks like an amalgamation of every Fox News personality, isn't it?

I also like Wastri because he's actually a foe that a party could have a snowball's chance in the City of Brass of actually defeating for real in a campaign that's not about insane power levels.

Also some appreciation for Iuz, Greyhawks's answer to Sauron, and good old Demogogrgon.

Iuz is Vecna's ***** in 2e, heck, everytime someone has some scheme, Iuz typically gets a portion of his power, or all of it stolen. He is truly the buttmonkey of the gods.

Volkov
2010-03-08, 05:51 PM
There aren't many people who can outfox Vecna, the man outfoxed the Dark powers themselves, in addition to every single freaking dark lord. It'd take Tzeentch or The Deceiver to one up him in the game of Xanatos roulette. And the Deceiver is a bit of an iffy proposition.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-08, 05:55 PM
Asmodeus can only cast as a cleric, the serpent is arcane magic itself. No one with more than a few ranks in spellcraft will ever be fooled if asmodeus tried it.

The line is, as I understand it, that the Serpent taught Vecna magic. Which is to say, Lil' Vecna, back when he had a pulse and so on.

And there are few definitive takes on Asmodeus's true nature, so getting too hung up on the 'casts as a cleric' thing is slightly misleading, I'd say.

So, here's a crazy scheme for you to contemplate; Asmodeus knocks up a suitable Cultist-chan, who teaches her kid about The Serpent (something that few other people, to this day, even believe exists), and generally sets him up for his role, which is to say is promptly butchered as a Witch. Little Vecna swears vengeance, as he has been carefully programmed to do via his mother's teachings and the infernal charms and rituals used on his mother during her convalescence. Vecna spirals off, 'communing with the serpent' which is to say receiving commands and teaching from Asmodeus himself, (Reading from the finest Arcane Textbook he can find if necessary!)

The mental channel remains subtely open throughout Vecna's life and unlife, subtley prompting Vecna's actions. Mysterious coincidences often help or hinder his plans at juuust the right time, but along the way he just so happens to acheive momentary almost-dominion-of-everything and makes changes.

The changes that he was designed to make, perhaps? He is of course nothing to do with Asmodeus, he's just a crazy lich who thinks he can talk to a magic snake. So, if whilst Vecna was keeping the Lady of Pain and who knows what else busy, Asmodeus quietly helped himself to a dozen or two little items or strategic thingies (Of no import really, you don't even need to worry about it probably) then it's really just coincidence.

And hey, it's not like Asmodeus acheived (on top of his existing status as a greater power not needing worship) Godhood a few short centuries later, well, that couldn't possibly be remotely related....

Volkov
2010-03-08, 05:56 PM
The line is, as I understand it, that the Serpent taught Vecna magic. Which is to say, Lil' Vecna, back when he had a pulse and so on.

And there are few definitive takes on Asmodeus's true nature, so getting too hung up on the 'casts as a cleric' thing is slightly misleading, I'd say.

So, here's a crazy scheme for you to contemplate; Asmodeus knocks up a suitable Cultist-chan, who teaches her kid about The Serpent (something that few other people, to this day, even believe exists), and generally sets him up for his role, which is to say is promptly butchered as a Witch. Little Vecna swears vengeance, as he has been carefully programmed to do via his mother's teachings and the infernal charms and rituals used on his mother during her convalescence. Vecna spirals off, 'communing with the serpent' which is to say receiving commands and teaching from Asmodeus himself, (Reading from the finest Arcane Textbook he can find if necessary!)

The mental channel remains subtely open throughout Vecna's life and unlife, subtley prompting Vecna's actions. Mysterious coincidences often help or hinder his plans at juuust the right time, but along the way he just so happens to acheive momentary almost-dominion-of-everything and makes changes.

The changes that he was designed to make, perhaps? He is of course nothing to do with Asmodeus, he's just a crazy lich who thinks he can talk to a magic snake. So, if whilst Vecna was keeping the Lady of Pain and who knows what else busy, Asmodeus quietly helped himself to a dozen or two little items or strategic thingies (Of no import really, you don't even need to worry about it probably) then it's really just coincidence.

And hey, it's not like Asmodeus acheived (on top of his existing status as a greater power not needing worship) Godhood a few short centuries later, well, that couldn't possibly be remotely related....
A cleric cannot teach a wizard to be wizardry. It'd be like a Biologist trying to teach an Astronomer to be Astronomy. It just doesn't work.

Not to mention, Vecna has proven himself to be wiser, more charismatic, and more intelligent than Asmodeus, Asmodeus would never want an apprentice who is his mental SUPERIOR, because that entails a massive risk of being overthrown.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-08, 05:58 PM
A cleric cannot teach a wizard. It'd be like a Geophysicist trying to teach an Astronomer. It just doesn't work.

If only Asmodeus somehow had access to a thousand years of the finest, most diabolically gifted Wizardly Minds and Teachings.

Or some kind of nation of underlings.

Nah, he definately couldn't find any-way at all to prod a human along the arcane path. It's just beyond his resources. Good Call.

:smallsmile:

Volkov
2010-03-08, 05:59 PM
If only Asmodeus somehow had access to a thousand years of the finest, most diabolically gifted Wizardly Minds and Teachings.

Or some kind of nation of underlings.

Nah, he definately couldn't find any-way at all to prod a human along the arcane path. It's just beyond his resources. Good Call.

:smallsmile:

As I said, Asmodeus would not want someone who is his mental superior under his wing. To have an apprentice who is your mental better and have both of you evil is begging to be killed and overthrown.

BenTheJester
2010-03-08, 06:08 PM
A cleric cannot teach a wizard to be wizardry. It'd be like a Biologist trying to teach an Astronomer to be Astronomy. It just doesn't work.

Not to mention, Vecna has proven himself to be wiser, more charismatic, and more intelligent than Asmodeus, Asmodeus would never want an apprentice who is his mental SUPERIOR, because that entails a massive risk of being overthrown.

Wiser/more intelligent, I can do

..but more charismatic than the friggin devil, I sincerely doubt it.

If so, the writers of Vecna's books probably just had a boner for Vecna and watched a lot DBZ right before writing them.

Volkov
2010-03-08, 06:09 PM
Wiser/more intelligent, I can do

..but more charismatic than the friggin devil, I sincerely doubt it.

If so, the writers of Vecna's books probably just had a boner for Vecna and watched a lot DBZ right before writing them.

Vecna has a higher Cha stat in the D&DG than Asmodeus has in the BoVD.

Occasional Sage
2010-03-08, 06:12 PM
My DM, hands down.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-08, 06:14 PM
As I said, Asmodeus would not want someone who is his mental superior under his wing. To have an apprentice who is your mental better and have both of you evil is begging to be killed and overthrown.

Well, given that Vecna barely survived betrayal at the hand of Kas (and his sword), and that Asmodeus has apparently not only survived ruling Baator since the Dawn War, but that he keeps several Archdevils around specifically because they can be counted on to try, and even instigated the entire reckoning of hell just so he could clear up a seat amongst the arch-devils...


I think that Big A has the form when it comes to managing and dealing with possible betrayals.

But yes, I agree. He wouldn't want his intallectual supirior under his command. :smallwink:

Volkov
2010-03-08, 06:16 PM
Well, given that Vecna barely survived betrayal at the hand of Kas (and his sword), and that Asmodeus has apparently not only survived ruling Baator since the Dawn War, but that he keeps several Archdevils around specifically because they can be counted on to try, and even instigated the entire reckoning of hell just so he could clear up a seat amongst the arch-devils...


I think that Big A has the form when it comes to managing and dealing with possible betrayals.

But yes, I agree. He wouldn't want his intallectual supirior under his command. :smallwink:

One who is your mental superior rarely stays under your command for long, quite soon, you will find him holding a position far more favorable for him than it is for you.

Thurbane
2010-03-08, 07:50 PM
Tharizdun. No plotting, no plans, no complicated schemes, just 'kill it all', and so evil even the other evil gods won't hang out with him at parties. Doesn't get more evil than that.
Actually, I can't believe I forgot him...I'll add him into my top two (three) with Iuz and Vecna.

JonestheSpy
2010-03-08, 07:59 PM
The thing about Vecna and Asmodeus is that they've just become bad guy Mary Sues, in my opinion. Reams of material by various writers and retconners upping the ante on how badass these two are. To me it's just hit the "Whatever, how about something interesting" stage.

And I gotta say, the idea of a story that "explains" the multiverse changing from 2E to 3e rules strikes me as utterly dumb.

Set
2010-03-08, 08:03 PM
Since gods of myth are getting mentioned; I like Hecate and Loki quite a bit as well (although my Loki-love has something to do with reading too many comic books, and cheering for him during the big throwdown with Surter in the Simonson run, so, yeah).

And, uh, some Egyptian god. I forget his name. :)

And for demon lords and archdevils with pretensions of godhood? Graz'zt, hands down.

Vecna's a big loser, a slave to some entity he doesn't even know. Iuz kicked his butt, for Pelor's sake, and Iuz is way cooler (and, oh look, one of Graz'zt's kids, making Vecna not just a pawn or a tool of the Serpent, but someone who got his butt handed to him by some demon lord's illegitimate spawn!).

deathpigeon
2010-03-08, 08:06 PM
Why am I the only one who thought of Torog?

Yora
2010-03-08, 08:07 PM
I don't see Mary Sue issues with the Demon Lords though. Demogorgon is just crazy and destroys everything without ever attempting do make any great plans.

Orcus could become Mary Sue, but he had suffers a lot of major setbacks. I don't see him getting overhyped any time soon.

And Graz'zt just doesn't care if his plots remain unsucessful. As long as he looks good doing it, and it involves lots of succubi and sexy sorcerers, everything is great in Azzagrat. :smallbiggrin:

chiasaur11
2010-03-08, 08:21 PM
Since gods of myth are getting mentioned; I like Hecate and Loki quite a bit as well (although my Loki-love has something to do with reading too many comic books, and cheering for him during the big throwdown with Surter in the Simonson run, so, yeah).


Off topic, but man. Simonson Thor is awesome.

Tiki Snakes
2010-03-08, 08:23 PM
Mary Sue?
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0912/that-word-inigo-montoya-word-think-means-princess-bride-mand-demotivational-poster-1260739585.jpg


I Kind of see what you mean, but it's not really the right term. Not unless Jack Vance is who writes the Vecna stuff, for example.

Never really saw anything much cool about Orcus, I must say. And yes, you are the only one who thought of Torog. :smallwink: (Nice as his fluff is).