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unre9istered
2010-03-08, 02:26 PM
I was thinking about the Practiced Spellcaster feat and got to wondering, "Why shouldn't their be a Practiced Martialist feat?" It would raise your BAB by 4 upto upto the number of levels of Full BAB classes you possess with a max BAB of your HD.

So to get full use of it you'd need at least 4 levels in a martial class and 9 levels in a 1/2 BAB class or 13 in an 3/4 BAB class. Any reasons why this would be unbalanced?

Mongoose87
2010-03-08, 02:28 PM
I can see it being taken possibly by a ray specialist, just to b more certain he hits, but really, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-08, 02:31 PM
Because if your not a fighter type its basically a super weapon focus
A higher BA gives more attacks per round.
A pure martial character can not ever benefit from practiced spellcaster, he needs a magic mix.
Now a pure wizard gains great benefit from adding +4 to his base attack. They have plenty of deadly ranged touch spells.
If your a TWF rogue it works wonders, it be an essential feat for every monk character in existence.

Saph
2010-03-08, 02:36 PM
Practiced Spellcaster is used in gish builds and pretty much nothing else. Your feat would be used by very nearly every build. Every divine caster would take it to supercharge their CoDZillaness, every wizard/sorc who used touch or ranged touch spells would take it to guarantee hits, every skillmonkey class would take it, etc.

Basically the only classes that wouldn't benefit from this would be the full-BAB types, effectively nerfing them (since now everyone can get almost full BAB with one feat's investment).

unre9istered
2010-03-08, 02:40 PM
I'd give it a requirement similar to Practiced Spellcaster. Specifically at least 1 level of a Full BAB class.
Better idea: make the limit of the bonus +4 upto the number of levels of Full BAB classes you posess with a max BAB of your HD. So to get full use of it you'd need at least 4 levels in a martial class and 9 levels in a 1/2 BAB class or 13 in an 3/4 BAB class.

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-03-08, 02:40 PM
I like it, I'd take that feat rather than finding ways for gishes to get divine power which is probably adding other things worth more than the feat your spending.

On a related note I've considered making a practiced initiator feat which adds to your initiator levels. I wonder if it would break ToB dippers since they already have their half of other leels to IL rule so you could get 9th level manuevers at level 18 with an investment of just 8 levels in initiator advancing classes and 5 of those levels could be dual progression caster/initiator.

I've already made fighter advance initiator fully in my games though nobody has taken advantage of it yet.

unre9istered
2010-03-08, 02:45 PM
I've already made fighter advance initiator fully in my games though nobody has taken advantage of it yet.

I like this, one of the DM's I play with agreed that Warblade is what a Fighter should be just this week. The option to give up a few maneuvers for feats makes sense.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:47 PM
come up with it for the Homebrew, and I'll GLADLY add it to any gish build I ever run ;3

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-08, 02:56 PM
come up with it for the Homebrew, and I'll GLADLY add it to any gish build I ever run ;3

Especially with Abjurant Champion who gets to use their base attack for their caster level.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-08, 02:58 PM
Especially with Abjurant Champion who gets to use their base attack for their caster level.

lol indeed. Heck, this'd be great for a Wizard 4/Fighter 4/abjurant champion 5/Eldritch Knight 7

Full BAB and Full Casting ;3

TaintedLight
2010-03-08, 03:02 PM
I like it, I'd take that feat rather than finding ways for gishes to get divine power which is probably adding other things worth more than the feat your spending.

On a related note I've considered making a practiced initiator feat which adds to your initiator levels. I wonder if it would break ToB dippers since they already have their half of other leels to IL rule so you could get 9th level manuevers at level 18 with an investment of just 8 levels in initiator advancing classes and 5 of those levels could be dual progression caster/initiator.

I've already made fighter advance initiator fully in my games though nobody has taken advantage of it yet.

Finally, someone else who agrees with the fix I've been using! Just make fighter advance IL one-for-one and take the limit on martial study away for them. Bam, they can now choose any manuever combo they like with all those bonus feats.

sofawall
2010-03-08, 03:59 PM
lol indeed. Heck, this'd be great for a Wizard 4/Fighter 4/abjurant champion 5/Eldritch Knight 7

Full BAB and Full Casting ;3

:smallconfused:

Tinydwarfman
2010-03-08, 04:05 PM
:smallconfused:

I think he means full caster level :smallwink:

Person_Man
2010-03-08, 04:15 PM
Skillful weapon enhancement gives you 3/4 BAB and auto proficiency with the weapon. Has many different applications. +3 enhancement. Complete Arcane.

sofawall
2010-03-08, 04:16 PM
I think he means full caster level :smallwink:

And despite that, he loses 5 caster levels... Looks like he uses up 3 feats to get full CL and BAB.

Riffington
2010-03-08, 04:27 PM
Gishes obviously get insane benefit from this.
But let's just look at fighter-types for now. Suppose you are a barbarian (with a couple levels fighter/ranger/whatever). Now you can freely add in:
*rogue 3 for the sneak attack/skills. Or featrogue if preferred.
*also spellthief or swordsage for additional sneak attack/etc.
*cleric 1 for the domains (probably luck and either destruction or travel, though I suppose war is ok)
*a level monk or two for the grappling/saves

Seems like even if you were straight melee this is well worth the feat and a few hp.

AstralFire
2010-03-08, 06:26 PM
No; BAB is already a relatively low value statistic for everyone except for martials. This further devalues it.

Pluto
2010-03-08, 06:49 PM
:smallconfused: Isn't this what prestige classes are for?

It's not really a broken feat, but I'm not really sure what it accomplshes.

(BA is cheap and not particularly meaningful... see Divine Power, Skillful weapons and all the gish and skillful fighter classes floating around.)

What this does do is invalidate full BA base classes even further.
(Why would I ever use fighter levels if Eldritch Knight + 1 feat brings my gish up to 19/20 BA? Or if Nightsong Enforcer + this feat brings my rogue to full BA? Etc.)

Sophismata
2010-03-08, 11:04 PM
On a related note I've considered making a practiced initiator feat which adds to your initiator levels.
Practiced Adept

Your devotion to the Sublime Way knows no obstacle.

Prerequisite: Martial Lore 4 ranks.

Benefit: Your initiator level increases by two. This benefit cannot increase your initiator level higher than your Hit Dice. Even if you cannot benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain levels of non-adept classes, you might be able to apply the rest of the bonus.

This benefit applies to all adept classes you posses.

You do not gain new maneuvers known, maneuvers granted, readied maneuvers or stances unless you take a level in a class that grants these features.

Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Its effects stack. Your initiator level may never be higher than your Hit Dice as a result of this feat.

A fighter can select Practiced Adept as a bonus feat.



Practiced Warrior

The way of the warrior is in your blood.

Prerequisite: BAB +4.

Benefit: Your BAB increases by 2. This bonus cannot increase your BAB by more half of what your BAB was before applying Practiced Warrior. This benefit cannot increase your BAB higher than your Hit Dice. Even if you cannot benefit from the full bonus immediately, it will still apply should you later satisfy the conditions needed to benefit from it.

Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Its effects stack. Practiced Warrior can never increase your BAB by more than half of what your BAB was before applying Practiced Warrior feats. Your BAB may never exceed your Hit Dice as a result of this feat.

A fighter can select Practiced Adept as a bonus feat.

Pluto
2010-03-08, 11:12 PM
On a related note I've considered making a practiced initiator feat which adds to your initiator levels.

Practiced Adept
You know ToB already has a built-in and much more elegant way of doing this, right?

And that such a feat would give ToB the Ardent's quirk/problem, which it frankly doesn't need (it's already trivial to give a martial adept 9th level spells and some of the most powerful maneuvers in the book).

Eldariel
2010-03-08, 11:21 PM
These two things aren't comparable. BAB is to warriors what spellcasting levels are to casters. In effect, improving BAB with a feat would be the same as giving access to higher level spells and learning new spells and so on with Practiced Spellcaster.

You could give e.g. bonus to attacks equivalent to the difference between character's BAB and full BAB (up to 4), but don't touch the actual BAB. Divine Power and Skillful weapon show perfectly what happens if you do; you end up obsoleting a class feature.

Sophismata
2010-03-08, 11:35 PM
You know ToB already has a built-in and much more elegant way of doing this, right?

Actually, ToB's method is functionally equivalent to BAB. Even a level in wizard still adds to your BAB at the same rate that that level in wizard adds to your initiator level.

I also think a +2IL to all classes is nifty, especially if you went Mo9 or something similar.