Need Help with a Revised Vampire Template

[Revan Ordo]

Okay,

I've been working on this one a while, ultimately the purpose is to create a vampire template that is fun to play, has some of the traditional vampire flavor, and doesn't have a high LA. Trying to shoot for a LA +2 or +3 here.
Please feel free to critique and provide suggestions to improve it. Also I need some ideas as to what its current LA is and what needs to be altered/cut to bring it into the 2-3 range. Thanks.

*Note: This template is not meant to represent Dracula or any other vampire that has completely "over-the-top" abilities. It is meant to be a very basic "bare-bones" vampire template.


Vampire
Vampires are undead humanoid creatures that feed on the blood of the living. They look much as they did in life, often becoming more attractive, though some have a hardened, feral look instead.

Creating a Vampire“Vampire” is an acquired template that can be added to any living sentient creature. Most vampires were once humanoids, fey, or monstrous humanoids. A vampire uses the base creature’s stats and abilities except as noted here.

AL: Usually evil
Type: The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented). Do not recalculate class Hit Dice, BAB, or saves.
Senses: Darkvision 60’ and Scent
Armor Class: Natural armor improves by +2.
HD: Change all racial HD to d8s. Class HD are unaffected. As undead, vampires use their Charisma modifier to determine bonus hit points (instead of Constitution).

Defensive Abilities: Channel Resistance: 2 + 1 / 5 HD the vampire possesses; DR: 5 / magic or silver; Energy Resistance: 5 (cold and electricity); Fast Healing 2

Weaknesses: Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from mirrors or strongly presented holy symbols. These things don't harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against that creature. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action. After 1 round, a vampire can overcome its revulsion of the object and functions normally each round it makes a DC 25 Will save.

Vampires are vulnerable to fire.

Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn't destroy it. However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight staggers it on the first round of exposure and destroys it utterly on the second consecutive round of exposure if it does not escape.
Driving a wooden stake through a helpless vampire's heart instantly slays it (this is a full-round action). However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the head is also severed and anointed with holy water.

Speed: +10’ to base speed.

Melee: A vampire gains a slam attack if the base creature didn't have one. Damage for the slam depends on the vampire's size. Its slam also causes energy drain (see below). Its natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Special Attack: A vampire gains the following special attack. The Save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 vampire's HD + vampire's Cha modifier unless otherwise noted.
Blood Drain (Su): A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round it drains blood.

Special Qualities: A vampire gains the following:
Blood Dependency: A vampire needs to feed on the blood of the living. Every day a vampire has to gain at least five temporary hit points due to his Blood Drain (Ex) in order to satisfy its “thirst”. Failure to do so forces the vampire to succeed on a fortitude save (DC 15 + number of days without feeding). If the vampire succeeds, he suffers no penalties for this day. If he fails his saving throw, he gains a cumulative -1 penalty on his strength, dexterity, and intelligence stats until he has gained via his Blood Drain ability 5temporary hit points per previous day without feeding. A vampire who has gone for more than his combined Wisdom and Charisma modifier number of days must roll a Will save (DC 15 + number of days without feeding) or enter a frenzy and attack the nearest living creature that has blood until the vampire gains a minimum of 5 temporary hit points from their blood drain ability. *Note: Special Thanks to Chrizzt who created the blood dependency ability. I just tweaked it a bit by adding the Frenzy mechanics.
Gliding (Su): A vampire may move forward 20’ for each 5’ he/she descends. The vampire’s gliding speed is 40’ with Average maneuverability. Also, falling damage is negated by gliding. However, the vampire may not be carrying more than a Medium load or wearing armor heavier than Medium when gliding.
Leap of the Clouds (Ex): Unlike most creatures a vampire’s ability to jump isn’t limited by its height.
Shadowless (Ex): A vampire casts no shadows and shows no reflection in a mirror.
Spider Climb (Ex): A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though under the effects of a spider climb spell. (This ability may not be necessary, could always be replaced by a +4 racial bonus to Climb if it would help offset the LA any.)

Ability Scores: +4 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Cha. As an undead creature a vampire has no Constitution score.
Skills: Vampires gain a +4 racial bonus to Acrobatics, Perception, Persuade, Sense Motive, Stealth, and Survival checks.
Feats: Vampires gain Alertness and Improved Initiative as a bonus feat.
CR: ?
Level Adjustment: ?

[Revan Ordo]

I've also thought about making the vampire partially susceptible to critical hits.

Maybe something like, a vampire is threatened by a critical hit only on a natural roll of 20. A vampire still has a 50% chance to negate the critical hit. Not sure if this will make any difference to the LA, but I'm considering it.

No thoughts yet from anyone?

[erikun]

Have you seen Oslecamo's homebrew thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724)? He has done an excellent job with turning existing creatures into "monster levels", doing away with HD and LA. You might ask him to give the Vampire a try.

Are you trying to make the vampire playable? Or just turn it into a template you can use on enemy creatures?

In any case, this is still quite strong. +4 to three stats, +4 to a bunch of skills and fast healing. I don't think we're down to the level of +2 LA yet.

[Revan Ordo]

erikun,

No I haven't seen that thread yet, though I will give it a look. Thanks for the reference.

What I'm trying to do is make a playable vampire template without 'breaking the bank' so to speak with LA. My players really want to play vampires.

I just recently playtested a series of battles between a 5th level Human Fighter with this vampire template and a level 6 Human Fighter, level 7 Human Fighter, and level 8 Human Fighter.

Results:
Vampire vs. Level 6 Fighter: Vampire won 4 out of 5 times. The only one the human won was due to him going first and rolling extremely well whereas the vampire did not.
Vampire vs. Level 7 Fighter: Vampire won 3 out of 5 times. The human having the extra attack made a difference. Usually the vampire had 10 or less hp at the end of the fights it won.
Vampire vs. Level 8 Fighter: Fighter won 3 out of 5 times. Last fight where the human won the human only had 5 hp left.

Just judging by the results I would say erikun, that you were right. It is still a bit high for a LA +2. It is more of a LA +3 right now.

I could really use some suggestions to tune it down to +2 though.

[erikun]

Well, let's see. Benefits are:

+4 Str
+4 Dex
+4 Cha
+2 AC
virtual turn immunity
Fast Healing 2
Darkvision
Scent
+10 speed
Con drain
always-on Spider Climb
free Alertness
free Improved Initiative

In exchange, you are repulsed by mundane objects, vulnerably to fire, and killed by sunlight/anyone familiar with vampires (who will stake you immediately). I'd have to wonder how many times the fighters in your example tried to delay a few turns by pulling out a clove of garlic.

Right off hand, the stat bonuses and defenses (natural armor, damage reduction, fast healing) are the biggest bonuses for the vampire. Dropping the stat bonuses down to +2 each would probably help. Beyond that, how much did the fighters take advantage of the vampire's vulnerabilities? Simply trying to hit one with a masterwork sword won't do much good, but using a +1 flaming sword while wielding a holy symbol would likely be far more effective.

[Revan Ordo]

erikun,

The Human Fighters didn't really take any advantage of the vampire's vulnerabilities except for using silver weapons to bypass the vampire's damage reduction. If the humans had been better prepared, the fights might have ended quite differently. I will have to playtest this later.

[Lysander]

How about giving them more weaknesses to balance out their power? Here are a few you can add:

Invitation Requirement - A vampire cannot enter a building unless invited inside by its owner, or someone inside with the permission of its owner. Vampires have an implicit invitation to enter buildings open to the public.

Running Water Paralysis - Vampires are paralyzed when crossing a natural river or stream. To cross a river a vampire must either travel around the river or be carried across.

Daytime Torpor - During the day vampires take a -2 penalty to strength and dexterity and gain no benefit from their Alertness and Improved Initiative feats.

Coffin Dependency - Vampires must sleep in a coffin, crypt, or other locale appropriate for a corpse. Failing to sleep in a coffin for at least eight continuous hours a day gives them the penalties of their daytime torpor until they rest.

Vulnerability to wood - Vampires can be affected by critical hits from a wooden piercing weapon, or from a spear or arrow with a wooden shaft. Critical hits from these weapons bypass a vampire's damage reduction but normal hits do not unless the weapon bypasses them some other way.

Spook Animals - Vampires have a -10 penalty to all handle animal checks with non-nocturnal creatures. Dogs and cats react with anger and fear to their mere presence, and herbivores feel an instinctive urge to shy away and move to the farthest part of their pen from a vampire. Horses will refuse to bear a vampire rider until trained to tolerate their presence with a DC15 Handle Animal check that requires a week. For this reason vampires usually travel by carriage instead of riding a horse themselves.

[Revan Ordo]

Lysander,

Thanks for the ideas on other weaknesses. These look good so far. I'll definitely add some of them to the vampire's weaknesses in the next version I draft.

[Revan Ordo]

Alright here is my v2 Vampire Template. Give it a look over and let me know what you think. Remember I'm shooting for a LA +2 to LA +3 with this.

Vampire
Vampires are undead humanoid creatures that feed on the blood of the living. They look much as they did in life, often becoming more attractive, though some have a hardened, feral look instead.

Creating a Vampire“Vampire” is an acquired template that can be added to any living sentient creature. Most vampires were once humanoids, fey, or monstrous humanoids. A vampire uses the base creature’s stats and abilities except as noted here.

AL: Usually evil
Type: The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented). Do not recalculate class Hit Dice, BAB, or saves.
Senses: Darkvision 60’ and Scent
Armor Class: Natural armor improves by +2.
HD: Change all racial HD to d8s. Class HD are unaffected. As undead, vampires use their Charisma modifier to determine bonus hit points (instead of Constitution).
Speed: +10’ to base speed.
Melee: A vampire gains a slam attack if the base creature didn't have one. Damage for the slam depends on the vampire's size. Its natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Defensive Abilities:
Channel Resistance: Vampires receive a resistance bonus vs. channeling equal to 2 + 1 / 5 HD the vampire possesses.
Damage Reduction: Vampires have damage reduction of 5 / magic or silver.
Energy Resistance: Vampires ignore the first 5 points of damage dealt by cold or electricity damage.
Fast Healing: A vampire's body heals at a rate of 2 hp each round.

Weaknesses:
Anathema: Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Likewise, vampires recoil from mirrors or strongly presented holy symbols. These things don't harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against that creature. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action. After 1 round, a vampire can overcome its revulsion of the object and functions normally each round it makes a DC 25 Will save.
Daytime Torpor: During the day vampires take a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity (These penalties are doubled if the vampire is in direct sunlight). In addition, the vampire gains no benefit from their Alertness or Improved Initiative feats and has its base speed reduced by 10’.
Fire Vulnerability: Vampires are vulnerable to fire.
Inviolate Sanctuary: A vampire cannot enter a privately owned residence unless invited in by the rightful owner or someone inside with the permission of its owner. Vampires have an implicit invitation to enter buildings open to the public.
Killing a Vampire: Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn't destroy it. However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight staggers it on the first round of exposure and each consecutive round it takes 50 points of sun damage that bypasses any damage reduction the vampire may possess, it only takes half this damage each round in cloudy conditions or at twilight. It continues to take sun damage each round until it is utterly destroyed if it does not escape. A vampire destroyed by sunlight leaves behind only a pile of fiery ash.
Driving a wooden stake through a helpless vampire's heart instantly slays it (this is a full-round action). However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the head is also severed and anointed with holy water.

Special Attacks: A vampire gains the following special attack. The Save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 vampire's HD + vampire's Cha modifier unless otherwise noted.
Blood Drain (Su): A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round it drains blood.
Porphyric Hemophilia (Su): A creature that has had its blood drained by a vampire may contract this deadly disease that has a chance of turning it into a vampire. The disease has an incubation period of 1d3 days. After it has incubated the subject must roll a Fortitude save or take 1d6+1 Constitution damage. When a subject’s Constitution reaches 0, they die. There is a 10% chance that the subject will rise 1 day later as a new vampire. This new vampire is not under the control of the vampire who ‘created’ it. Porphyric Hemophilia is a supernatural disease for which there is no known mundane cure, its effects can only be staved off by one who has a strong immune system or by divine magic such as that of a remove disease or heal spell.

Special Qualities: A vampire gains the following:
Gliding (Su): A vampire may move forward 20’ for each 5’ he/she descends. The vampire’s gliding speed is 40’ with Average maneuverability. Also, falling damage is negated by gliding. However, the vampire may not be carrying more than a Medium load or wearing armor heavier than Medium when gliding.
Leap of the Clouds (Ex): Unlike most creatures a vampire’s ability to jump isn’t limited by its height.
Shadowless (Ex): A vampire casts no shadows and shows no reflection in a mirror.
Spider Climb (Ex): A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though under the effects of a spider climb spell. (This ability may not be necessary, could always be replaced by a +4 racial bonus to Climb if it would help offset the LA any.)
Blood Thirst: A vampire needs to feed on the blood of the living. Every day a vampire has to gain at least five temporary hit points due to its Blood Drain (Ex) in order to satisfy its ‘thirst’ for blood. Failure to do so forces the vampire to succeed on a fortitude save (DC 15 + number of days without feeding). If the vampire succeeds, he suffers no penalties for this day. If he fails his saving throw, he gains a cumulative negative level until he has gained via his Blood Drain ability 5 temporary hit points per previous day without feeding. Every 3 days it goes without feeding, the vampire must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of days without feeding) or take 2d4 Intelligence damage. If reduced to 0 Intelligence, the vampire enters a frenzy and will mindlessly attack anything to sate its thirst for blood. Gaining 5 temporary hit points via Blood Drain will immediately restore all Intelligence lost this way.

Ability Scores: +4 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Cha. As an undead creature a vampire has no Constitution score.
Skills: Vampires gain a +4 racial bonus to Acrobatics, Perception, Persuade, Sense Motive, Stealth, and Survival checks.
Feats: Vampires gain Alertness and Improved Initiative as a bonus feat.
CR: ?
Level Adjustment: ?

[Lysander]

Your second vampire is actually stronger because sunlight no longer destroys them. Maybe, if you don't want them to be outright destroyed by sunlight in two rounds just impose a certain amount of fire damage each round? How about something like this:

Banished from the Light: Vampires catch flames and take 1d6 damage each round they remain in direct sunlight. No type of magical protection can save them from this harm. Even after returning to shade a vampire may still be on fire (use normal rules for characters on fire). Thick clothing can potentially protect them from harm, but even a sliver of exposed flesh leaves them vulnerable. Clothing thick enough to protect them usually imposes a -1 dexterity penalty and -2 to spot checks, in addition to looking out of place.

or alternatively if you just want to leave them weak and not injure them:

Curse of Daylight: A vampire's strength and dexterity are reduced to 2 in direct sunlight. Thick clothing cannot protect them from this weakness.

Of course there's nothing wrong if you want to have vampires that aren't hampered too much by the sun. But the current penalty just reduces their strength/dex to that of a human.

[Revan Ordo]

Lysander,

Actually if you look more closely at the Killing a Vampire section, you will see that each round after the first, the vampire actually takes 50 points of damage from the sun that cannot be prevented. At low levels, this will kill most vampires in the second turn. At higher levels, as a vampire gets stronger, it will take a few more turns to kill them.

The daytime torpor weakness merely adds to the fact that vampires are typically nocturnal creatures and thus are not as strong during the day.

[Lysander]

Damn, 50hp a round. That's better than what I had. Good stuff Revan.

[Lysander]

On another topic. Your vampires are missing some traditional powers, like mental domination, shapeshifting, wolf/bat servants, and a few others. Vampires don't necessarily have to have those powers in every canon, and giving them to your players would probably overpower the template. But maybe you could develop a series of vampire feats they can choose to take? It would also be interesting if different players took different vampire powers.

[Revan Ordo]

Lysander,

I agree about the vampire's lacking some of the traditional powers, and yes I was considering some vampire specific feats to grant some of the more traditional powers plus some that resemble the different disciplines from V:tM. These powers would of course have a certain HD requirement plus others (i.e. ability scores, class levels, other feats, skill ranks, etc.) However, these feats/powers will come later. My big concern right now is with getting this template down to a LA +2 to LA +3.

In that regard what would you rate it as?

[Geiger Counter]

Running Water Paralysis - Vampires are paralyzed when crossing a natural river or stream. To cross a river a vampire must either travel around the river or be carried across.

so a vampire can swim across a channel?


Coffin Dependency - Vampires must sleep in a coffin, crypt, or other locale appropriate for a corpse. Failing to sleep in a coffin for at least eight continuous hours a day gives them the penalties of their daytime torpor until they rest.

I'd say burying him self in dirt would do in a pinch, like D.


Vulnerability to wood - Vampires can be affected by critical hits from a wooden piercing weapon, or from a spear or arrow with a wooden shaft. Critical hits from these weapons bypass a vampire's damage reduction but normal hits do not unless the weapon bypasses them some other way.

But arrows and spears are tipped with metal. Anything approaching a wooden weapon would count as improvised and take a -4 to hit.


Spook Animals - Vampires have a -10 penalty to all handle animal checks with non-nocturnal creatures. Dogs and cats react with anger and fear to their mere presence, and herbivores feel an instinctive urge to shy away and move to the farthest part of their pen from a vampire. Horses will refuse to bear a vampire rider until trained to tolerate their presence with a DC15 Handle Animal check that requires a week. For this reason vampires usually travel by carriage instead of riding a horse themselves.

Aren't cats nocturnal? Aren't wolves diurnal?

[Revan Ordo]

Geiger,

Note, that none of the weaknesses that you quoted from Lysander have been added to my revised vampire template. I like these weaknesses, they are good ideas, but they don't fit the feel that I'm going for with "my vampire template".

[Lysander]

so a vampire can swim across a channel?



I'd say burying him self in dirt would do in a pinch, like D.



But arrows and spears are tipped with metal. Anything approaching a wooden weapon would count as improvised and take a -4 to hit.



Aren't cats nocturnal? Aren't wolves diurnal?

As Revan said, he's not using these.

But I suppose a vampire could swim across a channel. If any running water stymied them then even underground pipes would block their path. They'd be unable to enter any modern city.

I suppose the dirt trick could work, although that would get them dirty. The "coffin dependency" only shows up in certain vampire stories, but it does explain why a vampire would sleep there instead of in a bed. I never understand vampire stories that don't require a coffin of them, but they sleep in one anyway.

I figure that getting stabbed with a wooden shaft is just as bad, whether or not the tip is metal.

You have a point about animals. Maybe a better approach would be to say that all animals other than wolves, bats, and rats start off with a hostile attitude towards them, instead of the normal indifferent for domesticated animals and unfriendly for wild ones.

[Oslecamo]

Just to say that finished my vampire template for my improved monsters thread.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8056982&postcount=173

Granted, I may have gone a little too exotic with this one. Basicaly an undead who can fuel several special abilities by drinking blood. The more blood you drink, the stronger you can be.

Because I never got the whole "vampires only need a small bite now and then to trive". Vampires are suposed to be hungry for blood all the time.

[Revan Ordo]

Oslecamo,

I like your Vampire as a Prestige Class idea. It is very original and it has nice flavor. The idea of spending blood charges to fuel powers is very similar to the mechanic in Vampire: the Masquerade where the vampire has a blood pool and always subtracts 1 blood point from their blood pool each night. The vampire's have special powers that usually require the expenditure of blood points to activate. I had thought of introducing a similar mechanic in my vampire template, but decided against it for now.

Keep up with the Monsters as Prestige Classes, they are very nicely done.

[Eleven]

You might like to check out this (http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13) vampire template as well, both as a viable option for your players or simply for inspiration.

[Revan Ordo]

Eleven,

Thanks for the tip about Dicefreaks, but I had already looked there. I like their template it is very well thought out and enables for the creation of a variety of vampires based on age and salient abilities. However, for my players I need something that is more simpler and has a lower LA.

As it stands right now I think my current version of the template is a very high LA +2 to LA +3, but I'm not entirely sure. I still need to do some more testing and I need more input from others on this forum as to what LA they think it is, and any suggestions to improve it.

[Lysander]

Maybe you should change the way vampires are made. If it's a disease you might have vampires spawning up left and right as your players hunt, and the ones they create hunt, and the ones created by the ones they created hunt, etc... Not necessarily a bad thing, but you might not want your game turning into the apocalypse. What if instead you use the approach where to become a vampire a vampire must first drink your blood, and then you must drink the blood of the vampire that bit you?

I noticed that the description says their slam attack causes energy drain, but it isn't mentioned anywhere else. Do you mean that to be there?

[Revan Ordo]

Lysander,

You may be right about the vampirism as a disease. I had thought that with only a 25% chance of turning into a vampire that it wouldn't be a huge problem. However, I think the chance should be reduced further, therefore I have changed it so that now there is only a 10% chance that those who die from Porphyric Hemophilia will become a vampire, that should reduce it by enough that it won't always be a problem, but still leaves it so that the players may have to deal with the consequences of their feeding.

As far as it turning into the apocalypse, that shouldn't happen, vampires and their weaknesses are widely known of in my campaign world and their are several individuals, agencies, etc. that specialize in vampire "population control" when they get too numerous.

Also, thanks for catching that bit about energy drain in the slam attack description. This vampire template doesn't deal energy drain with its slam attack so it has now been removed.