PDA

View Full Version : Dragonborn with breath weapon character



Soranar
2010-03-08, 09:55 PM
I've just realized that a dragonborn of Bahamut qualifies for metabreath feats. Considering that you can add the template (and the feats) to any good-aligned class , which do you think would get the most out of it?

I doubt a spellcaster or any tier 1-2 class would get much out of it, since you'd be wasting feats. Logically feat starved builds would have a problem with it. A fighter (or generic warrior) could easily afford the feat cost though.

Any build (except undead) requires Con but some make more use out of it than most. (Fist of the forest/deepwardens for example)

I'm also debating which metabreath feats to use. Entangling breath is a no brainer as it doesn't even make your recovery longer.

My biggest debate concerning the feats is between quicken breath (+3 recovery time but breath becomes a free action) or maximize breath (maximum damage , full round action +4 recovery time).

The way I see it quicken sounds better, since you get your normal damage on top of your breath and the recovery might be short enough to do it multiple times per encounter.

thoughts, builds?

Runestar
2010-03-09, 04:49 AM
One problem I see is that the breath weapon doesn't really scale well (+1d6 every 3 lvs), and there might be some problems qualifying for the tougher ones like quicken breath, which requires 19con.

At lv18, you do a paltry 7d6 (average 25 damage). Between reflex saves and elemental resistance, you aren't really doing much damage, if at all.

It would be extremely useful at lower lvs (1-6?, for instance, a dragonborn warforged with starting con of 15 can nab quicken breath at 1st lv, but rapidly peters off after that).

Your numbers also seem a tad off. Quicken is +4round to recharge time, maximize is +3, and entangling is +1.

I wouldn't go with maximize breath (because I waste a full round), quicken makes it effectively action-cost free but the payoff isn't really that significant, while entangling breath is too vulnerable to resistances.

For me, I would look to trying to tack status effects onto my breath weapon, like those spells from draconomicon. For example, blinding breath permanently blinds targets who fail their save against my breath weapon, dispelling breath acts as a dispel magic, enervating breath is like an AoE energy drain (but with a save), or even stunning breath (but requires a fort save).

For the benefit, those spells certainly aren't any less effective than those of equivalent lv, though they may be less reliable since saves are typically involved.:smallsmile:

And once again, casters get all the nice stuff.

JeminiZero
2010-03-09, 05:00 AM
I've just realized that a dragonborn of Bahamut qualifies for metabreath feats. Considering that you can add the template (and the feats) to any good-aligned class , which do you think would get the most out of it?

I would think that classes that have breath weapons would get the most out of it. Take the Dragon Shaman which gets a Breath Weapon at level 4 onwards. You can apply metabreath feats to both your dragonborn and Dragon Shaman breath weapons. You can alternate between the two, so that while one is recharging, you can use the other, making increased cooldown from metabreath feats less onerous.

Take the alternate class feature which grants you 1 Dragonfire adept invocations at the cost of 1 less Aura known. Pick up the Endure Exposure invocation (endure elements and party members are immune to your breath weapon) and blanket the battlefield!

Soranar
2010-03-09, 07:34 AM
One problem I see is that the breath weapon doesn't really scale well (+1d6 every 3 lvs), and there might be some problems qualifying for the tougher ones like quicken breath, which requires 19con.

At lv18, you do a paltry 7d6 (average 25 damage). Between reflex saves and elemental resistance, you aren't really doing much damage, if at all.

It would be extremely useful at lower lvs (1-6?, for instance, a dragonborn warforged with starting con of 15 can nab quicken breath at 1st lv, but rapidly peters off after that).

Your numbers also seem a tad off. Quicken is +4round to recharge time, maximize is +3, and entangling is +1.

I wouldn't go with maximize breath (because I waste a full round), quicken makes it effectively action-cost free but the payoff isn't really that significant, while entangling breath is too vulnerable to resistances.

For me, I would look to trying to tack status effects onto my breath weapon, like those spells from draconomicon. For example, blinding breath permanently blinds targets who fail their save against my breath weapon, dispelling breath acts as a dispel magic, enervating breath is like an AoE energy drain (but with a save), or even stunning breath (but requires a fort save).

For the benefit, those spells certainly aren't any less effective than those of equivalent lv, though they may be less reliable since saves are typically involved.:smallsmile:

And once again, casters get all the nice stuff.

oops, you're right I confused maximize (+3 ) and quicken (+4)

2 things you seemed to have forgotten

the breaths are d8, and I can pick any of the 5 elements every time I breathe (lighting, fire, acid, sonic or frost) so slightly better as I can always use something they're not immune to or (as it often happens) something they're weak against

freedom of movement might well make entangling useless, except at lower levels (below 12 I'd say)

taking the wizard spells seems pointless as a straight spell would always do better IMO , the idea was to add some damage/battlefield control to a normal fighter build

I was considering mongrelfolk or dwarf , with the original bonus thats at least +4 (dwarf) or +6 (mongrelfolk) to Con (dragonborn) so qualifying shouldn't be a problem. So far I prefer mongrelfolk as all the good stuff (+4 Con) isn't eliminated by dragonborn (dwarf just gets good classes) and makes the breath's DC pretty high. The stats penalties are steep though.

N.B. : I've just checked entangling breath again (Races of the Dragon) and it's only cost is the feat (no +1)

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-09, 12:35 PM
One problem I see is that the breath weapon doesn't really scale well (+1d6 every 3 lvs), and there might be some problems qualifying for the tougher ones like quicken breath, which requires 19con.

At lv18, you do a paltry 7d6 (average 25 damage). Between reflex saves and elemental resistance, you aren't really doing much damage, if at all.

Nitpick: Dragonborn BW is 1d8/3 levels. So it's equal to the Half-Dragon template at 20th level (except more uses).


A few feats and items will help out nicely. The DFA handbook mentions a feat in a Dragon Magazine that adds 2 to the DC. The Dragon Spirit Cincture (MiC) improves all of the damage dice by one step. Finally, there's a Dragonmark feat in the titular book that adds damage based on your Dragonmark's grade. Dwarf Dragonborns still qualify for their Dragonmark feats.

LichPrinceAlim
2010-03-09, 12:39 PM
I like the concept, with one add on:

Race: Mongrelfolk Dragonborn (Heart)
Class: Dragon Shaman 4/Dragonfire Adept 10/Swordsage 6 (focused on Desert Wind)

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-09, 12:55 PM
I like the concept, with one add on:

Race: Mongrelfolk Dragonborn (Heart)
Class: Dragon Shaman 4/Dragonfire Adept 10/Swordsage 6 (focused on Desert Wind)

...+1 to Head Desk count.


You don't need that many Breath Weapons pal. The Rules Compendium (and MM) says they all use the same Recharge time. The DFA's BW is far superior to both the Swordsage's Desert Wind maneuvers (by nature of being able to change energy type) and the Dragon Shaman (by scaling faster).

TaintedLight
2010-03-09, 12:57 PM
Why not be a dragonborn for the breath weapon, then take Quicken Breath? Breathing is now a free action. Not swift, FREE. How much huffin' and puffin' can you do in 6 seconds?

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to say this part. Take Dragonfire Adept for a breath weapon you can use with no round-delay restrictions.

Volthawk
2010-03-09, 02:52 PM
And be a Sorcerer and take Draconic Breath. I have no idea about how it interacts with Metabreath, but it's an independent source of breath weapons. Pick a non-elemental dragon, and it can be any element, too.

AtwasAwamps
2010-03-09, 03:13 PM
...I seem to recall a thread that involved the concept of metabreath feats stacking with themselves.

If you're a dragonborn dragonfire adept...you have one breath weapon that qualifies for metabreath feats, one you can use as an everyday weapon, and a party immune to both of them.

Start off a battle by slamming enough metabreath onto your dragonborn breath to scourge the entire battlefield with it + its negative effects, and then keep everything continuously screwed up with entangling exhalation and your slightly less breath attack.

The result?

The DM beats you with Dragon Magic and Draconomicon because you're a d-bag.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-09, 05:06 PM
...I seem to recall a thread that involved the concept of metabreath feats stacking with themselves.

If you're a dragonborn dragonfire adept...you have one breath weapon that qualifies for metabreath feats, one you can use as an everyday weapon, and a party immune to both of them.

Start off a battle by slamming enough metabreath onto your dragonborn breath to scourge the entire battlefield with it + its negative effects, and then keep everything continuously screwed up with entangling exhalation and your slightly less breath attack.

The result?

The DM beats you with Dragon Magic and Draconomicon because you're a d-bag.

Rules Compendium: If you have more than one Breath Weapon, and any of them have a recharge time, the recharge time applies to all Breath Weapons you have. Paraphrased, but that's the rule.

The trick with Metabreath feats is you can use Widen Breath to engulf the multiverse in Acid.