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View Full Version : reading a captured spellbook in AMF to detect traps



taltamir
2010-03-09, 07:48 PM
Can you detect magical traps like explosive runes and sepia snake sigil if you have AMF while reading through a book? can you destroy them physically without an erase spell? would the AMF suppression result in them just not "existing" for the duration of the AMF making them undetectable?

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-09, 07:55 PM
Can you detect magical traps like explosive runes and sepia snake sigil if you have AMF while reading through a book? can you destroy them physically without an erase spell? would the AMF suppression result in them just not "existing" for the duration of the AMF making them undetectable?

There is a much easier way, a spell book is not magical by its self so you can use detect magic to look for traps, you could also simply cast dispel magic on it to get rid of traps like symbols or sigils.

taltamir
2010-03-09, 07:57 PM
There is a much easier way, a spell book is not magical by its self so you can use detect magic to look for traps, you could also simply cast dispel magic on it to get rid of traps like symbols or sigils.

although, if it has explosive runes that will cause it to explode. destroying the valuable spells inside. also, you might fail to dispell some of them...

Of course one of the easiest ways is to use summon monster and have it read the book.

but even if there are easier ways to do it, am curious as to what will happen if you do it using AMF.

sofawall
2010-03-09, 08:05 PM
if it has explosive runes that will cause it to explode. also, you might fail to dispell some of them...


Also? :smallconfused:

taltamir
2010-03-09, 08:16 PM
Also? :smallconfused:

i mean fail to dispel sepia snake sigils and other traps that DON'T explode when you fail to dispel them..

Lord Vukodlak
2010-03-09, 08:17 PM
Also? :smallconfused:

He means you might fail to dispel other traps.

But really what idiot is going to put Explosive Runes on his spell book. ALRIGHT that thief who stole my book blew it up now he can't use it.... and neither can I. I'd rather my book be stolen then blown up, a stolen book can be gotten back, but not if I trapped it to self destruct.

And AMF would suppress most magical traps making them invisible.

If your going to study from a book that is magically trapped your going to have to dispel magic on the book. AMF field doesn't last long enough to study from the book.

Curmudgeon
2010-03-09, 08:20 PM
Can you detect magical traps like explosive runes and sepia snake sigil if you have AMF while reading through a book?
Yes, but it still requires a Rogue, Scout, or similar character with the ability to use Search to detect a trap with a DC above 20, even if that trap is inactive.

can you destroy them physically without an erase spell? Yes, with a Disable Device check; again, this requires a Rogue, Scout, or similar class ability to handle magical traps.

would the AMF suppression result in them just not "existing" for the duration of the AMF making them undetectable? No, there's nothing in the descriptions of Symbol, Glyph of Warding, Sepia Snake Sigil, or similar spells that indicates their writing disappears when the magic is suppressed, so it's still there (though it may be concealed inside other text); it just isn't active.

While an Antimagic Field suppresses ongoing magical effects, it doesn't change the spell level used in the trap's creation, which is all the Search and Disable Device skills care about.

tyckspoon
2010-03-09, 08:28 PM
And AMF would suppress most magical traps making them invisible.

If your going to study from a book that is magically trapped your going to have to dispel magic on the book. AMF field doesn't last long enough to study from the book.

I have to agree with Curmudgeon- the physical representation of the traps would still be there (at least, for the ones where you actually do have to write something into the book to anchor the spell, which covers Sepia Snakes and Explosive Runes). So you could Spellcraft them safely while in an AMF and figure out what you'll need to do to safely disarm the book.

'course, you could have the Paranoid Wizard's book, which has all its useful spells written in Secret Pages. Secret Pages that cover Symbols/Sepia/Explosive Runes traps.. which you will discover while inside the AMF, take outside the AMF, attempt to Dispel, and promptly wipe out the entire book of Secret Pages, leaving you with the Big Book of Level 1 Evocations. Or maybe just outright gibberish, but you probably would have noticed that while carefully IDing all the magic traps.

Sir_Elderberry
2010-03-09, 08:29 PM
But really what idiot is going to put Explosive Runes on his spell book. ALRIGHT that thief who stole my book blew it up now he can't use it.... and neither can I. I'd rather my book be stolen then blown up, a stolen book can be gotten back, but not if I trapped it to self destruct.
I could see it, maybe, as a very powerful, Good-aligned wizard. His magical secrets, the spells he's created/discovered, could be incredibly, incredibly harmful in the wrong hands. So if he loses it, that's ok (he can always make copies of the less common ones), but if someone else uses it, that's not. Which sounds like a cool metaphor for nuclear proliferation.

Jack_Simth
2010-03-09, 08:47 PM
Can you detect magical traps like explosive runes and sepia snake sigil if you have AMF while reading through a book? can you destroy them physically without an erase spell? would the AMF suppression result in them just not "existing" for the duration of the AMF making them undetectable?
Simple workaround: Baccob's Blessed Book. It's a magic item. You CAN'T read it in an AMF, as the ability for it to have that many pages is suppressed.

graeylin
2010-03-09, 08:52 PM
Am i missing something, or wouldn't it be hard to read magic in an AMF? Or would that not affect your spell?

Jack_Simth
2010-03-09, 08:56 PM
Am i missing something, or wouldn't it be hard to read magic in an AMF? Or would that not affect your spell?Potentially. Depends on the DM's take on "magical writing" as listed in the magic overview. The arcane formula might vanish off the page, they might not.

taltamir
2010-03-09, 09:50 PM
Am i missing something, or wouldn't it be hard to read magic in an AMF? Or would that not affect your spell?

maybe, maybe not.
AMF does not affect your vision, and it is still magical WRITING. the question is what is exactly magical about it, we know it requires magic ink to write or it doesn't work, but we know little else.

Lysander
2010-03-09, 10:47 PM
The AMF would also suppress Read Magic, requiring you to make spellcraft checks to understand what you see. Even if you succeed that would only tell you what spells and symbols are in the book. You need 24 hours to actually copy each spell, so you'd need to dispel the curses first. That said, an AMF is a pretty smart precaution in order to learn what's in the book, good and bad.

graeylin
2010-03-10, 12:16 AM
Thanks Lysander... that's what i meant, the spell Read Magic... would the AMF disrupt that, making it impossible to read the spells?

Curmudgeon
2010-03-10, 06:00 AM
the spell Read Magic... would the AMF disrupt that, making it impossible to read the spells?
Yes, Antimagic Field would suppress all spells. But 8 hours of study and a successful Spellcraft check will allow you to learn a spell without Read Magic.

lesser_minion
2010-03-10, 10:19 AM
The problem is that everyone would likely be using either a dodgy reading of Secret Page or Boccob's Blessed Book, neither of which would yield its secrets in a dead magic area.

JoshuaZ
2010-03-10, 11:47 AM
Minor note: It is actually possible to cast read magic in an AMF. There's a 9th level spell in Lords of Madness which can be cast in an AMF and does nothing but allowing you to then cast a single low-level spell that takes effect normally in the AMF.

Tyndmyr
2010-03-10, 11:56 AM
There is also Initiate of Mystra, which will allow you to dispel all those nasty traps in an AMF, where they wont destroy the book.

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-10, 12:59 PM
Once you discover the traps, there's nothing to prevent you from gluing another sheet of paper atop them, to prevent you from reading them. Yay mundane solutions.

magic9mushroom
2010-03-10, 05:02 PM
There is also Initiate of Mystra, which will allow you to dispel all those nasty traps in an AMF, where they wont destroy the book.

No. It allows you to cast dispel magic OUT of an AMF. It's still suppressed if you try to use it on something else IN the AMF.

IoM's crazy, though.

taltamir
2010-03-10, 07:13 PM
The AMF would also suppress Read Magic, requiring you to make spellcraft checks to understand what you see. Even if you succeed that would only tell you what spells and symbols are in the book. You need 24 hours to actually copy each spell, so you'd need to dispel the curses first. That said, an AMF is a pretty smart precaution in order to learn what's in the book, good and bad.

can you make a permanent AMF in an area? you can have it as the "copy stolen/captured spellbooks room"


Yes, Antimagic Field would suppress all spells. But 8 hours of study and a successful Spellcraft check will allow you to learn a spell without Read Magic.

you need 8 hours of study anyways...

Comprehend a spell:
1. study it with read magic
2. study it with the person who wrote it
3. study it and make a successful spellcraft check.

scribe a spell:
1. make a spellcraft check (seperate from the one to comprehend it).


There is also Initiate of Mystra, which will allow you to dispel all those nasty traps in an AMF, where they wont destroy the book.

where is this from? and how does it work?


Once you discover the traps, there's nothing to prevent you from gluing another sheet of paper atop them, to prevent you from reading them. Yay mundane solutions.

which raises the question, are they discoverable in the AMF... are explosive runes just not there in an AMF, or are they there, but just not "explosive"