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AtwasAwamps
2010-03-10, 12:33 PM
So, combining two threads that have popped up gave me a horrible horrible idea that I should never do, but amuses me incredibly.

Take a Dragonborn. Choose the option to grant him his racial breath weapon (d8, advances with hit dice, 1d4 recharge, line OR cone (I believe), choose acid/fire/cold/lightning).

Take all your levels in Dragonfire Adept.

Make a majority of your feats powerful metabreath feats.

Now, most of us know that errata has rendered Dragonborn Breath + Dragon Shaman Breath kind of useless as they are on the same 'recharge' timer. BUT! The DFA's breath is not...it's not a REAL breath weapon, it's a magical mimicking of a dragon's breath. Hence, it does not qualify for a metabreath. The dragonborn breath weapon, on the other hand, does.

This character could spend a number of feats on metabreath feats, which, by RAW (pointed out by...Sinfire Titan? Phoenix Rivers? in an argument I think a week ago...maybe more) can be stacked on top of one another.

Hoooo boy...

Built this way, a character could open up every fight by blasting the entire field with his enormously extended maximized empowered breath weapon, perhaps with things like clinging and other riders settling in nicely on top of it. And instead of being without a breath weapon to reuse, the character would still have access to a breath weapon that can be used every turn without ever needing a recharge with plenty of riders on it that can be utilized.

It's not an ubercharger or a batman or anything like that, but it does create an amusing image of a dragonborn walking up to an encampment of enemies and going FOOOOOOOM! I can picture the DM twitching horribly as a result of this terrible terrible act.

It's worse if your DM rules that Endure Exposure affects your dragonborn breath weapon as well.

What am I missing in this? It's purely a "for fun" concept. Besides things like extend, what would be the ideal metabreaths to combine this with? Are there any other interesting feats that would make this a bit more silly (besides entangling exhalation, of course!)

zagan
2010-03-10, 12:44 PM
Now, most of us know that errata has rendered Dragonborn Breath + Dragon Shaman Breath kind of useless as they are on the same 'recharge' timer. BUT! The DFA's breath is not...it's not a REAL breath weapon, it's a magical mimicking of a dragon's breath. Hence, it does not qualify for a metabreath. The dragonborn breath weapon, on the other hand, does.


What's the source of that Errata ? I have a character concept depending on them being on two separate recharge time, so I like to know ? Please.

As for your concept yes it's a nice idea and I'm not sure it would be overpowered at all unless against lot of mook.

Volthawk
2010-03-10, 12:45 PM
How about some Sorcerer? Dragon Breath means spell slots=breath weapons.

AtwasAwamps
2010-03-10, 12:45 PM
What's the source of that Errata ? I have a character concept depending on them being on two separate recharge time, so I like to know ? Please.

As for your concept yes it's a nice idea and I'm not sure it would be overpowered at all unless against lot of mook.

I'll try and dig it up for you. I might be wrong! You never know.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-10, 12:56 PM
I'll try and dig it up for you. I might be wrong! You never know.

Good news: I have my copy of the Rules Compendium on me today!


Even if a creature has more than one type of breath weapon,
the time between uses is a time during which it can’t use any
of its breath weapons.

The DFA's Breath Weapon counts towards this, so it can't be used if the Dragonborn one is used.


As for Metabreath feats, hold on.

Here:


Multiple Metabreath Feats on a Breath Weapon: A
dragon can use multiple metabreath feats on a single breath.
All increases to the time the dragon must wait before
breathing again are cumulative. For example, if a dragon
uses an enlarged and maximized breath weapon, it must
wait 1d4+4 rounds before breathing again.
A dragon can use the same metabreath feat multiple times
on the same breath. In some cases, this has no additional
effects. In other cases, the feat’s effects are stackable. Apply
the feat’s effect to the base values for the breath weapon
once for each time the feat is applied and add up the extra
time the dragon must wait before breathing again. For
example, a Small dragon with a line-shaped breath weapon
could use Enlarge Breath twice on the same breath. Since
the base length of the line is 40 feet, the doubly enlarged
line would become 80 feet long (20 extra feet per application
of the feat), and the dragon would have to wait 1d4+2
rounds before breathing again.
If a metabreath feat stacks with itself, this fact will be
noted in the Special section of the feat description.

So you apply Enlarge Breath multiple times to the same breath weapon and cover the world in Acid.

zagan
2010-03-10, 01:12 PM
Good news: I have my copy of the Rules Compendium on me today!

Damn it ! One of the few book I don't have.

Well that's one character I need to rethink about.
(Hum, keeping dragonborn for the breath weapon and choosing a class that can work with nearly no feat so I can use those for metabreath.)

AtwasAwamps
2010-03-10, 01:16 PM
The DFA's Breath Weapon counts towards this, so it can't be used if the Dragonborn one is used.


Ah, does it? I had thought that since its not a "true" breath weapon, it didn't. Hrmm...fair enough.

Goodbye, awesomely fun idea.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-10, 01:18 PM
Damn it ! One of the few book I don't have.

Well that's one character I need to rethink about.
(Hum, keeping dragonborn for the breath weapon and choosing a class that can work with nearly no feat so I can use those for metabreath.)

Here's a feat to look into: Breath of Siberys, from Dragonmarked. 1d6 extra damage every time you use your Breath Weapon, or 2d6 if you have a Siberys Dragonmark.

zagan
2010-03-10, 01:55 PM
Here's a feat to look into: Breath of Siberys, from Dragonmarked. 1d6 extra damage every time you use your Breath Weapon, or 2d6 if you have a Siberys Dragonmark.

I look into it thanks.

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-10, 02:00 PM
Note: YMMV with enlarge breath. As the feat doesn't have a listed stackability in the feat itself (in the special section), there is a bit of contention as to whether the enlarge breath feat is stackable. Best advice is to check with your DM on that one.

Draz74
2010-03-10, 02:06 PM
I don't recall the DFA description ever saying its breath weapon isn't "real" ...

(Oh, and you probably already know this, zagan, but you definitely need a Dragon Spirit Cincture, from Magic Item Compendium.)

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-10, 02:08 PM
Note: YMMV with enlarge breath. As the feat doesn't have a listed stackability in the feat itself (in the special section), there is a bit of contention as to whether the enlarge breath feat is stackable. Best advice is to check with your DM on that one.

The very stacking section calls out Enlarge Breath as one of the possible feats that stack with itself. The feat was never errata'ed, but there's clear evidence that the feat was meant to stack with itself.

zagan
2010-03-10, 02:12 PM
I don't recall the DFA description ever saying its breath weapon isn't "real" ...

(Oh, and you probably already know this, zagan, but you definitely need a Dragon Spirit Cincture, from Magic Item Compendium.)

Yeah, I know about it but thanks.

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-10, 02:14 PM
The very stacking section calls out Enlarge Breath as one of the possible feats that stack with itself. The feat was never errata'ed, but there's clear evidence that the feat was meant to stack with itself.

It also states that metabreath feats that self-stack will list it in their entry, under the "special" section. So there's evidence both ways.

Personally, I believe it more balanced if Enlarge doesn't stack.

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-10, 02:19 PM
It also states that metabreath feats that self-stack will list it in their entry, under the "special" section. So there's evidence both ways.

Personally, I believe it more balanced if Enlarge doesn't stack.

You do realize that, even if allowed to stack, the effect isn't that powerful if you don't give XP for the massive numbers of kills the player gets for using this tactic (considering engulfing a planet the size of Earth alone takes up his breath weapons for the next year to do Xd6, where X is anywhere as low as 1)?

At worst, it will get Atropus' attention. At best, its Omnicide and the Celestials decide to take action.