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View Full Version : Creating a BBEG - Cleric of Syrul



Dyllan
2010-03-10, 02:01 PM
I'm working on a BBEG for my campaign. She's supposed to be a Cleric of Syrul, who will be masquerading as a cleric of a different god (some minor god, not sure who). She plans to hire the party to retrieve some artifacts for her, which she hopes to use to trap gods. What she plans to tell them, however, is that the artifacts will be used to strengthen the barrier between the party's world and other planes (a lot of portals have been opening up lately).

So, being a cleric of the god of deceit, I figured I'd make her a member of some monstrous or at least evil humanoid race. She'll be using magic to disguise herself (probably just a hat of disguise), so pretty much any race could work. I want her to have a high intelligence for skill selection, and a high charisma so she's a good liar. Of course, a high wisdom is important for casting. Physical stats are much less important. So, any suggestions of races?

Thanks,

JoshuaZ
2010-03-10, 04:40 PM
I'm inclined to make a rant about D&D racism at its finest. But instead I'll try to answer the question. Both Karsites (from ToM) and whatever the evil human variant from BoVD is might do what you want.

Dyllan
2010-03-10, 05:48 PM
I'm inclined to make a rant about D&D racism at its finest. But instead I'll try to answer the question. Both Karsites (from ToM) and whatever the evil human variant from BoVD is might do what you want.

Rant away. I'm curious now.

Icewraith
2010-03-10, 06:16 PM
Core races can worship evil deities too! In fact, they're rather better at is as they're not immediately found out if their transmutation magic isn't accidentally dispelled.

What you want is the cutest, most sweet-looking cleric of a major deity ever in a somewhat secluded location with no other major sources of that deity's power in the nearby vicinity. I recommend a halfling (awwwww), gnome (aww) or human (bonus feat, skill points). A more advanced cleric may have actually infiltrated or gained high rank in the temple of a major deity, who with all the prayers is much more likely to be duped than a god with fewer worshipers and fewer higher-level clerics. If you really want to pull the "oh goodness this NPC is actually a disfigured monster" go with outsider minions: succubi, erinyes and (at High Level) Mariliths!!!!! all make great replacements for the PC's girlfriend/grandmother/coffee shop barista.

playswithfire
2010-03-10, 06:19 PM
What about a changeling wearing a Vestment of Many Styles? Can look like anybody wearing anything at pretty much any time.

Looks sweet and charming or big and intimidating as your plot calls for.

JoshuaZ
2010-03-10, 06:52 PM
Rant away. I'm curious now.

In real life we don't have good and evil races or good and evil religions or good and evil political groups. When we do have such rare occasions where a large group is in some sense *evil* they believe they are doing good. (I'm not going to use specific examples because they aren't relevant and it would go against the board rules)

The fact that many D&D worlds treat entire species as either always evil or generally evil while others are always good are generally good is simply an excuse to have a simple universe where one can tell the scorecard at a glance. What is worse, the prettier a species the less likely it is to be evil. Elves? Oh, they're pretty, I guess they are good. Halfings? Well, they're cute so they're good. Orcs? Ugly so evil. Gnolls? They've got hyena heads so they are evil. Good and evil becomes some sort of scale based on where your species rates on hot-or-not by human standards.

Given how many D&D players come from unpopular or unliked groups (especially in highschools in the US. Let's be honest. This is a stereotype that has a fair bit of truth behind it) it is shocking that given the opportunity to construct an imaginary universe they construct a universe that is exactly the same, except that they get to be the queenbees. And when they do play a character that is from one of the "evil" species who is trying to be good they more often than take one of the handful of prety evil species and play as one of those. How common are Drizz't clones? A heck of a lot more common than players playing saying a gnoll or a goblin trying to be a good guy.

Good should not be a synonym for pretty. Ugly should not be a synonym for evil.

Dyllan
2010-03-11, 06:30 PM
In real life we don't have good and evil races or good and evil religions or good and evil political groups. When we do have such rare occasions where a large group is in some sense *evil* they believe they are doing good. (I'm not going to use specific examples because they aren't relevant and it would go against the board rules)


I'll give you that we don't have good or evil races in real life, but by the D&D definition of race (closer to species in the real world), we only have one race - humans. So I think that point is sort of moot.

We do, however, have evil religious and political groups. Without going into specifics, due to board rules, I'm sure everyone can think of political organizations dedicated to the destruction of a specific ethnic group, for example. And religious cults focusing on any number of evil acts. Yes, they probably don't see themselves as evil, but real world debates of moral relativism aside, in D&D Good and Evil are clearly defined. Spells and classes have the evil descriptor as part of the mechanics of the game. The character's justifications or beliefs don't change that.


The fact that many D&D worlds treat entire species as either always evil or generally evil while others are always good are generally good is simply an excuse to have a simple universe where one can tell the scorecard at a glance. What is worse, the prettier a species the less likely it is to be evil. Elves? Oh, they're pretty, I guess they are good. Halfings? Well, they're cute so they're good. Orcs? Ugly so evil. Gnolls? They've got hyena heads so they are evil. Good and evil becomes some sort of scale based on where your species rates on hot-or-not by human standards.

Well of course the goal is to have a simple world where one can tell the scorecard at a glance. This makes it possible to fight intelligent opponents in D&D without playing a murderer. Having enemies you know are evil makes the game work. And it gives the opportunity for interesting roleplay scenarios when individuals or societies break from the norm for their race.

As to evil being ugly - that's not universally true but is a definite trend. And an understandable one. It has always been easier to love something that is pleasant to look at and hate something that is unpleasant. That is human nature, and the game has just reflected that.


Given how many D&D players come from unpopular or unliked groups (especially in highschools in the US. Let's be honest. This is a stereotype that has a fair bit of truth behind it) it is shocking that given the opportunity to construct an imaginary universe they construct a universe that is exactly the same, except that they get to be the queenbees. And when they do play a character that is from one of the "evil" species who is trying to be good they more often than take one of the handful of prety evil species and play as one of those. How common are Drizz't clones? A heck of a lot more common than players playing saying a gnoll or a goblin trying to be a good guy.

The fact that so many players come from mistreated groups is exactly why they enjoy a universe where they can be the ones in the positions of power and popularity. They don't want to be in a world where those who mistreat them are their friends - they want power over those people. And they want to feel just in using that power - thus the need for evil to oppose.

However, I dismiss the Drizz't clone argument. I've seen more players wanting to play Kobolds, who are neither attractive or powerful, than any other evil race. The Drizz't clone is second place, but I'd say that is not because of the attractiveness of the race but rather because of the popularity of the fictional character of Drizz't.


Good should not be a synonym for pretty. Ugly should not be a synonym for evil.

And in the real world, it isn't. But in the fantasy worlds of D&D, it is easier to make the outside reflect the inside. That doesn't mean anyone thinks the reverse is true in the real world. It is fantasy, after all... and most of us understand the distinction.