Wizard survival horror (3.5)

[Adamaro]

Somewhere in the future I am considering a lvl 20 (wizards only)campaign involving temporary absence of gods. The effect being, that most entombed and barred creatures begin to enter my equivalent of Middle Earth. (all horrendously powerfull/numerous of course). Now, I do intend to rule-0 certain things, like slow, yet permanent decay of barrier between Genesis-made demiplanes and others and thus make slow, scary and unexpected reduction of maneuvre for players. Failing spells, Rope tricks, which vomit lockusts instead of being a safe harbour for casters, greater teleports which end up in snowy mountains instead of temple of Pelor, etc. But what I would really like is some hints on is how to make this as grim and as dark for players (as powerfull as wizards) as possible. I am talking The Road-like grim and dark and soulcrushing.

So, to summarize: What makes a lvl 20 wiz feel helpless, barring the fiated theft of his spelbook?

[Wings of Peace]

Somewhere in the future I am considering a lvl 20 (wizards only)campaign involving temporary absence of gods. The effect being, that most entombed and barred creatures begin to enter my equivalent of Middle Earth. (all horrendously powerfull/numerous of course). Now, I do intend to rule-0 certain things, like slow, yet permanent decay of barrier between Genesis-made demiplanes and others and thus make slow, scary and unexpected reduction of maneuvre for players. Failing spells, Rope tricks, which vomit lockusts instead of being a safe harbour for casters, greater teleports which end up in snowy mountains instead of temple of Pelor, etc. But what I would really like is some hints on is how to make this as grim and as dark for players (as powerfull as wizards) as possible. I am talking The Road-like grim and dark and soulcrushing.

So, to summarize: What makes a lvl 20 wiz feel helpless, barring the fiated theft of his spelbook?

A level 10 Wizard level 10 Tainted Scholar

On a side note, how skilled are the players we're attempting to make helpless?

[JoshuaZ]

The truth is that pretty much anything to make wiz 20 feel that way has to border on DM fiat. That said, here are a few options:

Random zones where magic is unpredictable or doesn't work at all, or only allows low level spells. Attacks by that nasty ooze that absorbs spells (anyone remember the name and where it is from?). Demonic or Far Realm entities that are searching out for people to possess and you become vulnerable to their possession when you prepare spells. The more spells you prepare the more vulnerable you become. Maybe also use the UA sanity loss mechanic for spellcasting?

[AslanCross]

Well, you've already made his magic unreliable. With Rope Trick not a safe option, eventually you're going to tire out the PCs.

However, I think you're going to need some very mature players here--they have to understand exactly what you have planned for them, else they might just feel hopeless and give up.

The biggest problem is that it's a Lv 20 campaign. There's a lot of inherent brokenness there.

[Volkov]

Constantly interrupt their rest. That should do it.

[Otodetu]

To create a fun game, don't rule 0 at all, but make it so that magic is slowly disappearing all over the place in patches, make system on how it works and how fast magic is decaying.

The players will use super magic to get to the source of the contagion, but the closer they go the less magic becomes available, spell level by spell level.

At the end the glorified commoners will have to wrestle unnamed horrors in hand to hand combat to break\undo the source of the contagion.

If they fail the champaign is doomed to lose all magic, and it ends.

[Ducklord]

Why have them be all wizards btw? A lvl 20 party relies on their spellcasters enough as it is, so if they only have one and you make his powers start acting weird, that should be enough to scare the whole party ****less. And you can also make encounters more difficult and have their spells not work at all without making them completely useless at everything.

[Adamaro]

The truth is that pretty much anything to make wiz 20 feel that way has to border on DM fiat.

Yeah, this has me a bit worried, that's also the reason I'm discussing this here.

I was thinking of wizards only, because mages' guild is by far the strongest entity in the land. So it's logicall for the wizards to be best protectors of the land/last to fall.

I'm now actually thinking that slow, permanent decay of magic may be a very interesting plot. First time they meet CR 15 creature its timestop-stompstompstomp, but a few sesssions later it hide and seek game.

I was also thinking wild magic spells might replace more and more spell slots. As in chaos slowly penetrating the order of reality.

[hewhosaysfish]

To create a fun game, don't rule 0 at all, but make it so that magic is slowly disappearing all over the place in patches, make system on how it works and how fast magic is decaying.

The players will use super magic to get to the source of the contagion, but the closer they go the less magic becomes available, spell level by spell level.

At the end the glorified commoners will have to wrestle unnamed horrors in hand to hand combathit unnamed horrors with a sock full of sand to break\undo the source of the contagion.

If they fail the champaign is doomed to lose all magic, and it ends.

Much better :smallbiggrin:

[Amiel]

Possibly max-HD adamantine horrors?

[Harperfan7]

Crystals! Crystals everywhere!

[subject42]

If you have access to it, take a look at Elder Evils. The elder evils themselves all have effects wrapped around them that are pretty much designed to make arcane and divine casters have a hard time.

[Captain Six]

I don't see what's so wrong about targeting the spellbooks. Wizards are accepted as one of the most powerful classes but they have such a massive weakness you should feel no mercy attacking it. It's kind of like ignoring the glowing point on a boss because attacking it makes the fight to easy.

It might be fun to end up with high level wizards who don't have high level spellbooks. Maybe even start the game with no spellbooks at all. They have limitless potential but they have to scrounge for every spell scroll the can get. They must utilize the tools they find rather than come into the game with powerful combos. Then, like I said above, let them know that even what they find isn't safe. Their jury rigged spellbooks occasionally stolen or destroyed if they grow careless. A big part of the game will be protecting their personal source of power, that would make for some unnerving horror.

[Melamoto]

I would, flavour wise, have certain schools effected on different levels. My personal preference would be to have it (Not based on crunch, but fluff):

Slightly effected: Abjuration, Evocation, because they are pretty direct acting.
Mildly effected: Enchantment, Illusion, because perceptions and minds twist slightly.
Quite effected: Divination because it could get some feedback, Transmutation because it involves a lot of alteration that could get messed up badly by any active forces.
Incredibly effected: Conjuration because you are calling upon something else that could be strongly altered by greater forces, Necromancy because it's necromancy.

[AslanCross]

Possibly max-HD adamantine horrors?

Mordenkainen's Disjunction = foul, horror game notwithstanding. :smalleek: