PDA

View Full Version : political situations [v:TM]



Froogleyboy
2010-03-10, 06:41 PM
Okay, I'm intending to run a Vampire: The Masquerade at school and it is going to start off political (I understand the fluff but the crunch is iffy so there will be more talking then rolling in a political game) and I was wondering what you guys think would make some interesting stuff for a politcal game.
It's New Orleans

Geiger Counter
2010-03-10, 06:49 PM
There is an interesting series on youtube called "psychohistory" which tries to connect politics, with child rearing with psychology. Basically as cultures progress they become more sane and less statist. This would be really interesting by mixing this with vampires as they would likely be examples of certain stages frozen in time.

Froogleyboy
2010-03-12, 07:48 PM
hmm, that is a pretty cool idea

Demons_eye
2010-03-12, 07:55 PM
Not familiar with v:TM but you could do the old body snatcher thing. Some one is not who the say they are and the PC's have to find out!

comicshorse
2010-03-12, 09:38 PM
I seem to remember reading the Setite clan had a fairly strong presence in New Orleans. So you could have the age old Camarilla v Sabbat struggle but with the Setite dodging around, selling their sewrvices to both sides and persuing their own goals. Plenty of intrigue, betrayal and shady dealings.

Froogleyboy
2010-03-13, 11:09 AM
I like what I'm seeing

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-13, 12:40 PM
The interesting thing about the Setites is that basically everybody hates them. They're not on anybody's side but their own. Thus, they can end up being the neutral party in certain situations, but you can never be sure if you can trust them and you never know whether or not they're also dealing with the other side. Plus, there's always the tension involved in interacting with someone whose heart you'd rather be driving a wooden stake through.

Semidi
2010-03-13, 02:46 PM
An idea I've always kind of wanted to do is play a Primogen style game where everyone plays older than dirt elders who play the "elder game" which means moving around pieces on a chess board to screw each other over but hardly ever taking overt action. This would require extremely responsible players because someone with elder dementation *shudder*.

So your players could do the political game while rarely, if ever, lifting a finger. They would have to deal with the city problems via proxy (upstart anarchs, setites, making deals with the Giovanni, using and defending against Assamite assassins, crushing Sabbat Presence, and so on).

'jus and idea. Alternatively, if you want a more pve game, ancilla characters would work, expecially if they want to usurp the power from a bunch of older than dirt primogen. God knows you don't want to actually fight an elder, but it is possible to weaken their powerbase before going in for the kill. It would also work if your players are a coterie with like minded goals.

Narazil
2010-03-13, 02:54 PM
If you have decent players, you could have them run fresh characters - they might have been vampires for a few months, or so.
Have them encounter the other sides of the conflict - talk politics with a member of the Sabbat, of the Anarchs, some of the Independents (assuming they have been Embraced into the Camarilla, of course). Have them question the core of their beliefs.
I've had players discuss whether to side with clan Assamite or not for 3-4 hours.

Another good if seldom used point is mortality contra immortality. Through an insane series of events their characters receive the choice between staying Vampires or reverting back to being mortals.

Jerthanis
2010-03-13, 02:58 PM
Listen to NPR and the BBC for one afternoon. Take notes on everything you hear that is even a little bit interesting. What you hear will be reports of various political factions domestic and abroad which are dealing with each other in terms of several factors: Territory, rights, money, past grievances, and so on. With only minor tweaking to the content and setting, you can transpose those political situations onto vampires in the big easy.

Also, think about the members of congress, their duties, and how junior members are supposed to behave, and how the story changes when they don't. Mr. Smith goes to Washington would make a great story of a newly embraced whip going against his sire for the good of the City.

Also, if you have action, take your ques from the Godfather more than the Matrix. (If you want a classic V:tM feel, I've seen bullet-time, trenchcoats and fine red mist vampire games be awesome too)

Geiger Counter
2010-03-14, 02:27 AM
hmm, that is a pretty cool idea

The only part of that series I have a contention with is saying the helping mode=Anarchy. Anarchy seems equivalent to having no parents at all except maybe a stranger that thinks you're useful.

Also though alignment is related to politics, the two aren't the same thing.

For example; Communism. A good person might support this if they believed that this sort of society would maximize happiness. A lawful person might support it because they believe in the capabilities of authorities. A chaotic person might the taking away of power from those on top. An evil person might like the new system because it harms his enemies.

Also something interesting to implement in a D&D world is the two most extreme political positions, anarchy and totalitarianism. If there was a being with a huge intelligence and wisdom bonus plus a capable method of intelligence gathering (possibly strong powers of divination) it might be possible to produce a controlled system which can rival a real market's ability to allocate resources to maximize efficiency.

With the existence of magic and creatures of great capability anarchy (as opposed to anomy which is often confused with anarchy) is also a more achievable goal than in IRL. I can imagine all the convinces of a modern home replicated with magic, leading to a decentralized system. Also outsiders don't need to eat or sleep and they can endure elements quite well so they don't really "need" to work, possibly leading to a completely voluntaristic society.

comicshorse
2010-03-14, 09:23 AM
An idea I've always kind of wanted to do is play a Primogen style game where everyone plays older than dirt elders who play the "elder game" which means moving around pieces on a chess board to screw each other over but hardly ever taking overt action. This would require extremely responsible players because someone with elder dementation *shudder*.


Weird coincedence as friend of mine is running this type of game, although our players would regard Primogen as being a bit below our notice. My 5th Gen Nosferatu has just (1785 game time ) set himself up as Seneschal of New Orleans

Politicswise, New Orleans is an old city and so the most likely to harbour old high gen. Kindred. Setting up a few old powerful kindred vs the many, young, low Gen. Kindred. Particularly nasty if feeding grounds are in short supply, then the politics is driven by the desperate need for blood. Conflict is always nasty when it is driven by survival rather than just greed for power.
( And of course the vital decsion do you stay with your younger comrades or betray them to the Elders for their favour:smallsmile:)

Froogleyboy
2010-03-15, 09:18 PM
I like em alll so far, any other ideas

Froogleyboy
2010-03-16, 04:29 PM
anyone? Anyone at all?

comicshorse
2010-03-16, 08:37 PM
Sadly it seems the Forum is running low on Vampire players

Dust
2010-03-16, 08:53 PM
The city of New Orleans has become disrupted by several packs of Garou - werewolves. They hunt out vampires and rip them to shreds, oftentimes right in front of humankind. Any mortals who witness the events are also killed.

Not only are the garou relentless in their hunting, but the police involvement into the strings of brutal, public murderings is beginning to get dangerous as well.

Kindred society is in an uproar, depanding the Prince do something, and fast. In response, the Prince declared that a tenuous alliance must be forged, or the garou turned toward another enemy until the vampires have obtain enough time and reinforcements to fight fire with fire.

Understandably, this announcement went over rather poorly. The New Orleans Brujah are plotting to overthrow the Prince and place one of their own in charge.
Neither the Prince and his supporters or the rebelling vampires have taken action yet, but something needs to be done soon. The nights are no longer safe, and howls echo throughout the city. And with Mardi Gras only a week away, the kindred have a feeling that the festivities will take place in blood-filled streets.

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-16, 08:56 PM
Any mortals who witness the events are also killed.

Not necessary. Garou Delirium will cause the humans to cower in fear and prevent them from having a clear memory of the events.

comicshorse
2010-03-16, 09:02 PM
Posted by Killian Hawkeye

Not necessary. Garou Delirium will cause the humans to cower in fear and prevent them from having a clear memory of the events.

True but some Tribes regard humans as almost a big a problem as vampires ( Red Talons, Get of Fenris) and wouldn't hesitate to slaughter them particularly if :
Posted by Dust

the police involvement into the strings of brutal, public murderings is beginning to get dangerous as well.

Posted by ME

Sadly it seems the Forum is running low on Vampire players

My timing really sucks

Dust
2010-03-16, 09:03 PM
While true, it worked better with the dangerous sort of vibe I was attempting to create, and there's possible explanations that will make players who HAVE used the W:tA system before wonder.
Perhaps one or more of their pack has the flaw that prevents delirium, or they'd have had bad experiences before and now simply want to be 'sure.' Running into blood-bonded humans before would surely make it a tough call. Perhaps they're Red Talons, who simply enjoy the excuse.

KillianHawkeye
2010-03-16, 09:51 PM
While true, it worked better with the dangerous sort of vibe I was attempting to create, and there's possible explanations that will make players who HAVE used the W:tA system before wonder.
Perhaps one or more of their pack has the flaw that prevents delirium, or they'd have had bad experiences before and now simply want to be 'sure.' Running into blood-bonded humans before would surely make it a tough call. Perhaps they're Red Talons, who simply enjoy the excuse.

Man, it's been too long since I cracked open my Werewolf books. Looks like I've forgotten a ton of the little details.

Quincunx
2010-03-17, 03:58 AM
The question that always comes up in political games is "How do you keep the players interested?" It's easy as the DM--you can see the wheels of plot spinning and there's lots of them. For the players who are supposed to be caught by surprise, the fun isn't as obvious. The solution is to ensure they have plots of their own to be passionate about. It's usually a good idea to inform every player of who they'll be working with and not let them in the game until they express a strong opinion about at least one of their comrades; it's better for the game for PCs to engage with other PCs and takes less of your valuable time. ("Yeah, sure, I get along with everyone" isn't strong. "I'd take a stake for him" is strong. "I will do everything possible to make those two others fight in Elysium" is strong.) For political games, this is even more important. Get opinions from everyone about everyone, take notes, and be ready to set up circumstances to fulfill those opinions. Award Willpower if the player follows through. Let them know you'll be awarding Willpower only if the other player is surprised by what that character did. (This is false, but you're going to be lying to your players in the guise of various NPCs, so better hone your skills now.)

Some people have a knack for messing with other people's plans. Some don't. Some have no knack for it but have an ability to mess with other people's plan just by being there. The first type can attend to their own plots and plans. The third type can be pointed in the direction of the first and further complicate matters. The second type needs hooks. Lying helps with this. ("I want to be different and honest with everyone" folk find something odd happens--everyone actively disbelieves what they say. Vampires aren't honest.) Again, reward the player if their lie convinces someone, even an NPC, of an untruth. Forcing an errand-boy plot hook down their throats helps with this, as they now must interact with the world. (She who has no interest in what other people are doing would make the perfect as-neutral-as-vampires-can-get messenger for messages which will interfere.) Award experience if the messenger avoids being blamed for the contents or results of said messages.

Last but not least, given that this is school and you already have one teacher in thrall, I'd forbid any blood-drinking or hunting scenes in-game in deeper detail than "I hunt until I'm full" or "Nobody's looking, I attack with intent to diablerize". If you set up a long-term goal for the game, make it a no-kill goal: steal the fang of the fifth-gen and return it after it's been enchanted or used in a ritual, convert the entire power base of Kindred X to Kindred Y without either one knowing (players convert, players barter with Z to provide secrecy), learn to break blood bonds and 'inoculate' some key parties (hint: Vaulderie--goal only suitable for Camarilla game), or such.

Recommended reading:

A Ventrue's Guide to Manipulating Nearly Everyone You Ever Will Meet (http://home.earthlink.net/~esasmor/blacklight/ventrue.htm): Recommended reading for players to whom being a manipulative jerk doesn't come naturally.
All Conspiracy Theories are True: Especially False Ones! (http://home.earthlink.net/~esasmor/blacklight/malk2.htm): This subsection of the Malkavians' guide deals with conspiracies and how to churn 'em out. Input those seeds which your players give you, output enough plot for ten wheels-within-wheels. (Sure, the players may only discover one out of those ten, but that doesn't mean the other nine aren't whirring away in the background, changing things. . .)

comicshorse
2010-03-17, 11:59 AM
Posted by Dust

The city of New Orleans has become disrupted by several packs of Garou - werewolves. They hunt out vampires and rip them to shreds, oftentimes right in front of humankind. Any mortals who witness the events are also killed.

Not only are the garou relentless in their hunting, but the police involvement into the strings of brutal, public murderings is beginning to get dangerous as well.


Another level to this could be that the werewolves doing the killing are Black Spiral Dancers. This would explain the slaughter of innocent witnesses and perhaps be a clue to the Kindred that something strange is going on.
Given the involvement of the loathed Dancers it might be possible for smart P.C.s to form a temporary alliance with the local werewolves to put down the mutual threat

Jerthanis
2010-03-17, 05:01 PM
Even though I gave my personal strategy for the generation of roughly infinity political plots, I'll come back and give some of my favorite Vampire plots I've seen or thought of.

A Primogen who lost out on a previous bid for Princehood is rumored to be considering defecting to the Anarchs. With the resources, allies, and secrets he commands, the Camarilla itself would be threatened. Fearing an encroaching civil war, the Prince chooses a group of young, relatively unconnected Vampires to gather information on whether it's true or not. The Primogen in question hadn't even considered until he heard the rumor, but wants to see how it plays out, see if he can force the Prince to embarrass himself, so orders his allies to clam up. The Anarchs themselves are more confused than anything, but they take it as encouragement. Clever players can find the source of the rumor, cleverer players can figure out why they'd do so, and ambitious ones can facilitate civil war to ingratiate themselves with whatever party they think will come out on top.

A particularly paranoid foreign Tremere was killed by Hunters centuries ago, but his sanctum was lost to the Vampire community due to the levels of secrecy surrounding its location. Now human archeologists have found the tomb and exhumed its contents. Fearing these artifacts will break the Masquerade when their supernatural properties are examined by scientists, the Camarilla demands they be secured when the ship carrying them comes into port. When the artifacts are fumbled into unknown hands after their theft, one of the players' sires or mentors is accused of the crime. The accused asks for sanctuary with the PCs and swears they are innocent. Players must choose between their loyalties and either turn in their mentor or work to clear his name. Having the PCs be responsible for the fumble is also a nice touch, though harder to pull off without being unfair.

The Prince has put an all-stop on the Embrace for the time being, but a group of Toreador desperately want to embrace their favorite author/painter/poet/whatever before he dies. The Toreador (and many others) have cajoled and pleaded for exceptions to his blanket ban, but he hasn't granted even one. The Toreador (or another faction) has enlisted the players to find some piece of blackmail or some favor they can exchange for repealing the blanket ban. No one wants to do so directly, for fear of reprisal. None of these factions have bothered trying to figure out why the Prince established the ban in the first place.