PDA

View Full Version : Spell storing nets



jpreem
2010-03-11, 04:56 AM
I have seen them mentioned several times in this forums, but i have a question.
Do they realy work by RAW i mean aren't you supposed to do some damage with your spell storing weapon before you can trigger the spell. You can do damage with a razor net but an ordinary net is just 0 damage.

Yora
2010-03-11, 05:25 AM
Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires.
RAW says no.

And as it's a lot easier to make a touch attack than a regular attack, I'm pretty sure RAI is also no.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-11, 05:28 AM
Seems to be a definite no, unless you can get your net to deal damage.

Soonerdj
2010-03-11, 05:29 AM
Perhaps a Fiery Enchantment to have it do damage? I'm assuming it follows normal weapon rules for enhancing it though.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-11, 05:39 AM
I'd go with the shocking, electricity resistance is less common than fire or cold resistance. Screaming is even better if you have MiC since sonic resistance is pretty rare.

Eloel
2010-03-11, 05:57 AM
Can you store Dimensional Anchor in a Spell Storing weapon? The potential is obvious.

Asheram
2010-03-11, 06:02 AM
Can you store Dimensional Anchor in a Spell Storing weapon? The potential is obvious.

An anchoring net? I'm surprised there aren't any around already.

Fishy
2010-03-11, 06:19 AM
Hunh. Does a +1 Shocking net do any damage? Shock weapons deal 'an additional' amount of damage, which is always weird verbage.

And by that logic, doesn't a +1 net deal 1 damage all by itself?

Volkov
2010-03-11, 06:44 AM
I'd go with the shocking, electricity resistance is less common than fire or cold resistance. Screaming is even better if you have MiC since sonic resistance is pretty rare.

Or you could go with, I don't know...Thundering? It's core.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-11, 06:49 AM
I'd say that since the energy damage is different from the weapon damage it works. The +1 from a weapons enhancement bonus is slashing/bludgeoning/piercing damage from the weapon itself, gets multiplied on crits and in pretty much every way is considered to be just part of the damage the weapon does. The energy damage from a shock weapon is separate from the weapon's normal damage, and doesn't get multiplied on a crit. Same goes for Screaming, and screaming doesn't even have the word extra in its description. It just says on a successful hit the weapon does 1d4 sonic damage. There's also no clause in either property's description that says that they don't take place if DR would reduce the normal weapon damage to zero.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-11, 06:51 AM
Or you could go with, I don't know...Thundering? It's core.

Thundering only works on a crit. I made the same mistake though :smalltongue:

Volkov
2010-03-11, 06:53 AM
Thundering only works on a crit. I made the same mistake though :smalltongue:

I think that's thundering burst. And even so, it would work like flaming burst, which does fiery enchantment damage on a normal hit, and Xd10 damage on a critical. Any way I'm off to play rise of legends for an hour.

PhoenixRivers
2010-03-11, 06:59 AM
I think that's thundering burst. And even so, it would work like flaming burst, which does fiery enchantment damage on a normal hit, and Xd10 damage on a critical. Any way I'm off to play rise of legends for an hour.


Thundering

A thundering weapon creates a cacophonous roar like thunder upon striking a successful critical hit. The sonic energy does not harm the wielder. A thundering weapon deals an extra 1d8 points of sonic damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon’s critical multiplier is ×3, add an extra 2d8 points of sonic damage instead, and if the multiplier is ×4, add an extra 3d8 points of sonic damage. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the sonic energy upon their ammunition. Subjects dealt a critical hit by a thundering weapon must make a DC 14 Fortitude save or be deafened permanently.

Nope. Thundering only functions on crits.

jpreem
2010-03-11, 07:07 AM
Hunh. Does a +1 Shocking net do any damage? Shock weapons deal 'an additional' amount of damage, which is always weird verbage.

And by that logic, doesn't a +1 net deal 1 damage all by itself?

yeah this Additional damage wording allows to go both ways. Like i didn't to ANY damage so I cant add additional damage or I did 0 damage :) and now i add my additional damage. As a DM i wouldnt probably allow it for nets ( dont deal any damage according to tables, but definetluy everyone would allow it for stuff that should have done damage but was overcome by DR or something else like this (one of the points of having an elemental enchanced weapon is even when your 1d4 flaming dagger wont overcome DR 5(physical) and so you deal 0 damage it will do its flaming damage as normal)

jpreem
2010-03-11, 07:08 AM
Rules can be muddy but one of the reasons i posted this thread was that the talk about spell storing nets seemed a rather blatant abuse to me:smallbiggrin:

jpreem
2010-03-11, 07:09 AM
RAW says no.

And as it's a lot easier to make a touch attack than a regular attack, I'm pretty sure RAI is also no.

Well the touch AC thingy is somewhat lessened by net being an exotic weapon.

Fishy
2010-03-11, 11:00 AM
Conventional wisdom says: How many times do you go up against something that has less than +4 between its armor or natural armor?

ericgrau
2010-03-11, 11:06 AM
Rules can be muddy but one of the reasons i posted this thread was that the talk about spell storing nets seemed a rather blatant abuse to me:smallbiggrin:

True, but this gives me an idea. Spell storing merciful whips. I heal you at a 15 foot range and still have a couple attacks leftover. Healing cures an equal amount of non-lethal damage, so they don't even take the 1d6.

Radiun
2010-03-11, 11:12 AM
Why not make a thorny net?
Deals 1 damage like a shuriken.
Requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Net) first?

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-11, 11:41 AM
wouldnt a +1 spell storing net do 1 damage any way from the +1.

jiriku
2010-03-11, 12:10 PM
Make your net an animated object. It can grapple the victim to deal damage.

arguskos
2010-03-11, 12:11 PM
True, but this gives me an idea. Spell storing merciful whips. I heal you at a 15 foot range and still have a couple attacks leftover. Healing cures an equal amount of non-lethal damage, so they don't even take the 1d6.
Don't need the merciful, whips only deal nonlethal.

Kyeudo
2010-03-11, 12:19 PM
A +1 Net wouldn't deal any damage ever, as the +1 is an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. Since a net never lets you roll damage, it only benefits on attack rolls.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-03-11, 12:20 PM
A +1 Net wouldn't deal any damage ever, as the +1 is an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. Since a net never lets you roll damage, it only benefits on attack rolls.

I always thought it just did 0 damage thats why

Benejeseret
2010-03-11, 12:39 PM
I have always wondered what DM's would do about a net with the Returning enchantment?

By RAW I suppose it simply returns and no longer entangles the prey, however, judgment calls may allow it to drag the opponent back to you. Not RAW and no clear mechanisms to stat that effect though

SSGoW
2010-03-11, 12:50 PM
omg i now want to make a barbarian that has a returning net (and convince the DM to let it drag the enemy back with it)

Sinfire Titan
2010-03-11, 12:53 PM
Razor Nets (A&EG) deal some damage whenever the creature tries to escape, so that should trigger Spell Storing.


Barring that, Duskblade and multiple +1 Spellstoring Nets. Arcane Channeling!

ericgrau
2010-03-11, 01:56 PM
Don't need the merciful, whips only deal nonlethal.

The purpose is to deal damage to trigger the spell storing. Any ruling on whether or not the +1 would deal damage? Or does that become part of the whip damage and thus ineffective against almost every creature?

Admiral Squish
2010-03-11, 02:33 PM
on the note of razor nets, how would someone stat out the razor-net the predators use? The one that tightens itself until you get cubed?

Benejeseret
2010-03-11, 03:39 PM
Shrink Item?

On that note, since throwing a shrunken item reverts its size could you shrink a colossal net (4 categories down) to throw it as a medium net which enlarges enough to entangle a dragon?

Or, could you simply take the cumulative -2 to hit and use large/huge nets?

Net has a weird wording about target/prey size which by RAW seems to base target limit at one bigger then YOU, rather then one bigger then NET SIZE. Is this presuming you are using an appropriately sized net? I suppose....but by RAW even with a colossal net a medium creature can only entangle a large one.

Optimystik
2010-03-11, 03:57 PM
Screaming is even better if you have MiC since sonic resistance is pretty rare.

I just had a hilarious mental image of a net shrieking "MAGIC MISSILE!" at ear-splitting volume after being tossed at a fleeing kobold :smallbiggrin:

Benejeseret
2010-03-11, 04:04 PM
Returning continued.

If the DM goes for a returning net the munchkin thing to do is to throw it from the air (flying) and then not be there to catch it so that it then instantly falls back down.

Others:
Burrowing - if allowed on nets specifies that an a hit (not damage) it burrowing in and causes damage if removed = predator effect?


Psionic Enchants

Dislocating (greater dislocating) net that teleports the entangled creature up to a hundred miles in a random direction.
** Depending on how you interpret RANDOM that leaves nearly 358/360 (99.4)% chance that the target is not landing in a level surface from where they start. Even a mile into sky or underground is pretty lethal.

Knockback
Free +8 bullrush as well as the entangling

Clouting (superior to knockback)
10' knockback plus a stunning effect

Paralyzing
Obvious, you are trying to basically do a weaker version of this anyway with a net, right?

Admiral Squish
2010-03-11, 04:14 PM
Hmm... Perhaps a razor net with grinding?

Ravens_cry
2010-03-11, 04:22 PM
Hmm... Perhaps a razor net with grinding?
Where's grinding, and what does it do? I can't find it.

Admiral Squish
2010-03-11, 04:24 PM
Where's grinding, and what does it do? I can't find it.

BoVD. It basically makes your weapon cling to the target and deal it's damage every turn unless the target pulls it out/off.

Volkov
2010-03-11, 04:28 PM
Nope. Thundering only functions on crits.

That's odd, isn't there a sonic version of the X burst and X energy weapons?

Ravens_cry
2010-03-11, 04:29 PM
BoVD. It basically makes your weapon cling to the target and deal it's damage every turn unless the target pulls it out/off.
Hmm, continuous damage is good. Messing with the action economy is also good.
I like.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-03-11, 06:49 PM
That's odd, isn't there a sonic version of the X burst and X energy weapons?

yeah, Screaming and screaming burst, in MiC. That's kinda why I suggested it.

Boci
2010-03-11, 07:06 PM
Can you store Dimensional Anchor in a Spell Storing weapon? The potential is obvious.

Requires cheese to meet the 3rd level limit on spells, unless there is a greater spell storing somewhere.

Darrin
2010-03-12, 12:27 AM
Hmm... if you could make the nets out of Rimefire Ice or Stygian Ice (Frostburn), then they would do cold damage on contact. That might trigger the spell-storing effect.

Both materials have issues, though... Rimefire Ice is only supposed to work with weapons that are made primarily out of wood. The description of Stygian Ice isn't clear about how tough it is... on one hand it says it's not much harder than normal ice, and then it says it has hardness 3, which puts it somewhere between leather and wood. It sounds brittle like other types of ice, though, so something flexible/fibrous like a net sounds like a bit of a stretch.

Both Rimefire and Stygian Ice melt in warmer climates, so you'd have to address the storage/temperature issue, and Stygian Ice does damage to itself... but cold damage done to objects is reduced to 1/4th, and Stygian Ice has a hardness of 3... so by RAW the 1d6 cold damage that Stygian Ice does to itself can't actually hurt it.

Dlarun, Fever Iron, and Hizagkuur (Magic of Faerun) all do +1 energy damage when they hit, but I'm not quite sure how you parse that for non-damaging weapons like nets/lassos. You could say zero + 1 = 1 damage, or you could say no damage + 1 = still no damage.

Hmm. Phoenix Ash Threat crystal might work, but you'd have to wait a round for the spell to go off.

ericgrau
2010-03-12, 01:46 AM
Can you store Dimensional Anchor in a Spell Storing weapon? The potential is obvious.
Besides the level being too high it doesn't have a "Target" line so it can't be stored even with level reducing cheese.