The Mimic [3.5 Base Class] (PEACH)

[Forever Curious]

The Mimic

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/024/9/1/Kabuto__Mirror_Mirror_by_Yakushi__Kabuto.jpg

"I'm a better you than you are." Rix, a mimic

Inspiration: The Mime class from Final Fantasy. I always wanted to see a D&D version, so I made one.

Game Rule Information

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6.
Starting Gold: As Rogue

Class Skills:
The Mimic has all skills as class skills (as a Factotum)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+Int Mod) x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: (4+Int Mod)

The Mimic
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Mimic Appearance, Mirror Combat

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0|Mimic Aptitude

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|Mimic Defense

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+1|Mimic Spell

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+1|Mimic Enhancement

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+2|Extend Mimicry

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+2| Improved Mimic Aptitude

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+2|Improved Mimic Defense

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+3| Improved Mimic Spell

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|Mimic Feat

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+3|
+3|Mimic Learning

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+4|Greater Mimic Aptitude

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+4|Greater Mimic Defense

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+4|
+4| Greater Mimic Spell

15th|
+11/+6|
+5|
+5|
+5|Improved Mimic Feat

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5| Mimic Innate Ability

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5| Sudden Mimic

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+5| Mimic Action

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+6| Greater Mimic Feat

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+6|Perfect Mimic[/table]

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Mimics are proficient with simple weapons and light armor.

Mimic Appearance (Ex) A mimic can perfectly replicate the appearance of a creature around him. As a standard action, a mimic can attempt a Spot Check with a DC of 10, targeting a creature within his line of sight. If he succeeds, he can replicate the creatures appearance. This functions as the Disguise Self spell with a caster level equal to his mimic level, with a duration equal to 1 hour per 2 points the DC was passed or until the mimic uses this ability on another creature.

Mirror Combat (Ex) Starting at 1st level, you are adept at picking up a target's defensive and offensive patterns in the midst of combat and using them yourself. Whenever you make an attack roll against a target, you may make a Spot check against the target's AC as an immediate action. If you succeed, you gain that creature's AC for 1 round. You may increase your AC by up to +1 per mimic level in this way. Whenever an attack is made against you, you may make an opposed spot check against the target's attack roll as an immediate action. If you succeed, you use that creature's melee and ranged attack bonuses for 1 round. You may increase your attack bonuses by up to +1 per mimic level in this way.

Mimic Aptitude (Ex) A mimic can copy a person's skill to the letter. If a creature makes a skill check, a mimic can attempt a Spot check as a standard action with a DC of 15. If he succeeds, he gains a Mimicry bonus to the mimicked skill equal to 1/2 the creature's HD. This bonus lasts for one round per mimic level. A mimic can only mimic one skill this way.

Mimic Defense(Ex) A mimic can duplicate other's actions to protect himself. When a creature in the mimic's line of sight succeeds on a save, the mimic can attempt a DC 15 Spot check. If he succeeds, the mimic gains a Mimicry bonus on the mimicked save equal to the target's base save. This bonus lasts for 1 round per level. A mimic can only only copy one save at a time this way.

Mimic Spell (Ex) A mimic can draw upon residual magical energy to replicate spells he sees. When a creature casts a spell of 3rd of lower, a mimic can attempt a SpellCraft check with a DC of 15 + spell level as an immediate action. If he succeeds, he can cast the spell using his Intelligence for the DC and mimic level as caster level. He must cast the spell before the end of his next turn or the spell is wasted.

Mimic Enhancement (Ex) A mimic further perfects the art of copying, learning how to replicate spell effects. If a mimic knows a creature is under the effect of a spell (such as Bull's Strength), he can attempt a Spellcraft check with a DC of 20 + spell level. If he succeeds, he gains the benefit of the spell for a number of rounds equal to his mimic level. A mimic may only benefit from one spell at a time with this ability.

Extended Mimicry (Ex) A mimic learns to have better control over his replication. The duration of the Mimic Aptitude, Mimic Defense, and Mimic Enchantment abilities improve to 1 min per mimic level.

Improved Mimic Aptitude (Ex) When a mimic uses his Mimic Aptitude class feature, he gains a Mimicry bonus equal to 1/2 the creature's ranks in the skill. This overrides the bonus gained from Mimic Aptitude. Further, a mimic may gain the benefit from mimicking two skills simultaneously.

Improved Mimic Defense (Ex) When using his Mimic Defense ability, the mimic can add 1/2 his class level to the bonus gained. Further, he can now have up to two saves mimicked at the same time.

Improved Mimic Spell (Ex) A mimic can harness magical energy more effectively. Whenever he uses his Mimic Spell ability, he can apply up to one level of metamagic to the spell. A mimic need not have the corresponding metamagic feat to use this ability. Further, he can mimic spells of 6th level or lower.

Mimic Feat (Ex) By observing a creature, a mimic can copy it's nuances. When a creature uses an ability granted by a feat (such as Power Attack) in the mimic's line of sight, the mimic can attempt a Spot check with the DC of 15 + the creature's HD. If the check succeeds, the mimic gains the benefit of the feat for 1 minute per level, even if he does not meet the requirements. Further, the mimic can apply weapon specific feats to any weapon he is proficient with. A mimic can only replicate feats that require an action or are used during an attack. For example, a mimic can replicate Power Attack, but not Iron Will.

Mimic Learning (Ex) The mimic has honed his abilities to replicate a creature's specific training. When a creature uses an extraordinary class ability (excluding spellcasting) within the mimic's line of sight, the mimic can attempt a Spot check with a DC of 25. If he succeeds, he can gain the use of the class ability, using his mimic level as the appropriate class level for 1 minute per mimic level. A mimic may only gain the use of one class ability at a time using this ability.

Greater Mimic Aptitude (Ex) When a mimic uses his Mimic Aptitude class ability, he gains a bonus equal to the creature's max ranks in the mimicked skill, which overrides any other Mimicry bonuses. Further, he may have up to three skills mimicked using this ability.

Greater Mimic Defense (Ex) When using his Mimic Defense ability, the mimic can add his class level to the bonus gained. Further, he can now have up to three saves mimicked at the same time.

Greater Mimic Spell (Ex) Whenever a mimic uses his Mimic Spell class feature, he may apply up to three levels of metamagic to the spell. He need not know the metamagic feats he wishes to imitate. Further, he can mimic spells of 8th level or lower.

Improved Mimic Feat (Ex) A mimic's copying grows even more versatile. The mimic can use his Mimic Feat class feature to mimic up to two feats simultaneously.

Mimic Innate Ability (Ex) A mimic's copy abilities border on the supernatural. Whenever a creature uses a supernatural or spell-like ability in the mimic's line of sight, the mimic can attempt a spot check with the DC equal to 30 + the creature's HD. If he succeeds, he can use the ability using his stats (HD, ability scores, etc). He can use this ability for 1 minute per level, and can only have one ability mimicked at a time.

Sudden Mimic (Ex) Whenever a mimic successfully saves against a spell or ability, he may attempt a Spellcraft check with a DC of 30. If he succeeds, he may cast the spell or use the ability as an immediate action, using his Intelligence for the DC, mimic level as caster level, and his own HD. Further, whenever a melee attack against the mimic misses, he can attempt a Spot check with a DC of 30. If he succeeds, the mimic gains an attack of opporitunity, using the target's base attack bonus.

Mimic Action (Ex) As a standard action, a mimic can make a Spot check with a DC of 35 against a creature with which the mimic possesses a line of sight. Until the start of the mimic's next round, whenever the selected creature takes a swift action, immediate action, move action, standard action, or full-round action, you are entitled to an action of the same type immediately afterwards.

Greater Mimic Feat A mimic can have up to three feats mimicked when using Mimic Feat.

Perfect Mimic The mimic has unlocked the pinnacle of copying, gaining the ability to perfectly copy an individual. The mimic can attempt a Spot check with a DC 40 as a full-round action, targeting any creature within his line of sight. If he succeeds, the mimic instantly becomes a perfect (and improved) replica of the creature. He gains the use of any and all class features, racial, supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities the target possesses. He gains a Mimicry bonus on his stats equal to the target's ability modifiers. He gains the use of all feats the target has. Finally, he gains proficiency with all armor and weapons the target is proficient in. A mimic may only have one Perfect Mimic ability active at a time. This ability last for 1 round/Intelligence modifier.


Please evaluate! I want your feedback!

[Zexion]

All good saves and plenty of good abilities makes this class a bit powerful...
I really like how you have no empty levels, however. Very impressive. I always have trouble with that with my own classes.

[Apropos]

I think the check for Mimic Appearance should be a disguise check, you're disguising yourself, right? Also, why doesn't Disguise as a class skill?

Also, with all of these nice abilities, you should probably change the BAB to bad (1/2 per level progression) and pick one save to be good. Especially leery of the capstone ability.

Also, Evasion and Mettle are sorely out of place in this class, you should find something else to put there.

EDIT: Also, good job so far, especially for the lack of dead levels.

[Zexion]

For the capstone ability, you might want to make the Spot check be 10+ HD, + 1/2 total level of Spell-Like Abilities.
I love mechanics that require three degrees in algebra to get through, so that's just my opinion.

[Forever Curious]

I think the check for Mimic Appearance should be a disguise check, you're disguising yourself, right? Also, why doesn't Disguise as a class skill?

Also, with all of these nice abilities, you should probably change the BAB to bad (1/2 per level progression) and pick one save to be good. Especially leery of the capstone ability.

Also, Evasion and Mettle are sorely out of place in this class, you should find something else to put there.

EDIT: Also, good job so far, especially for the lack of dead levels.

1) I wanted to keep consistency with the mimic abilities (Spot of physical, Spellcraft for magic). As to why is isn't a class skill...I don't know. Will change!

2) I actually was thinking to keep it 3/4 BAB but give the class all poor saves. I can then make an ability that allows mimicking saves, which will give me something to replace Mettle and Evasion.

Thoughts?

[Obrysii]

Sorry that I do not have more to add, but I am amused by the use of that picture - of Kabuto and "Kabumaru" as some call him (Kabuto with Orochimaru's cells within him).

But it is fitting for this class, it seems.

[mummy162]

1) The level 20 ability has an insanely high DC; maybe 30, but as it is right now it's a bit unreliable.

2) There should be some bonus that increases as they level, such as the rogue's sneak attack, or some ability they can use additional times per day as they level, like the rage ability.

3) This class is too good for 1 level dips. Mimic appearance is too good an ability for first level, even though it is integral for the class. Imagine a mimic 1/rogue 19 or mimic 1/beguiler 19.

[Forever Curious]

1) The level 20 ability has an insanely high DC; maybe 30, but as it is right now it's a bit unreliable.

2) There should be some bonus that increases as they level, such as the rogue's sneak attack, or some ability they can use additional times per day as they level, like the rage ability.

3) This class is too good for 1 level dips. Mimic appearance is too good an ability for first level, even though it is integral for the class. Imagine a mimic 1/rogue 19 or mimic 1/beguiler 19.

1) Eh, with 23 skill ranks, a minumum +2 Wis mod, and any wonderous item that boosts Spot by at leat +5 (there are many), you only need to roll a 10 or higher.

2) I don't particularly see why.

3) Keep in mind that the Changeling race (Eberron Campaign setting) gives you the same ability without wasting a level.

I do appreciate your feedback, don't get me wrong.

[Realms of Chaos]

Okay, let's take a look at this bad boy. Just as a warning, take whatever I write now with a grain of salt as I'm pretty sleepy right now.


This is my first homebrew class ever! Forgive my ignorance...

You are preemptively forgiven. :smallsmile:



The Mimic

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/300W/i/2010/024/9/1/Kabuto__Mirror_Mirror_by_Yakushi__Kabuto.jpg

"I'm a better you than you are." Rix, a mimic

(Fluff coming later...maybe. Too lazy at the moment)

Inspiration: The Mime class from Final Fantasy. I always wanted to see a D&D version, so I made one.

Game Rule Information

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6.
Starting Gold: As Rouge

Class Skills:
The class skills for a Mimic (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Listen (Wis) Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+Int Mod) x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: (4+Int Mod)

Starting gold as the rogue (unless you want the character to start with make-up, I suppose :smalltongue:).
Also, the skill list seems surprisingly empty. Having more than 14 Int (12 if human) means that you have nothign to spend skill points on. As this class is about mimicking others, skills such as bluff, disguise, forgery, or perform (I'm pretty sure that perform [acting] is a skill) might help. There are probably more skills than that but the point is that you may want to flesh out the list a bit.
In fact, you could probably give this guy all skills as class skills (like the factotum) and get away with it easily.


The Mimic
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|Mimic Appearance

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3|Mimic Aptitude

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|Evasion

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|Mettle

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+4|Mimic Spell

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+5|Mimic Enchantment

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+5| Improved Mimic Aptitude

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6|Extended Mimicry

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+6| Mimic Feat

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+7|
+7|Improved Mimic Spell

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+7|
+7|Mimic Learning

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+8|Greater Mimic Aptitude

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+8|Sudden Mimic

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+9| Improved Mimic Feat

15th|
+11/+6|
+9|
+9|
+9|Greater Mimic Spell

16th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10| Mimic Innate Ability

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10| Improved Evasion

18th|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+11| Improved Mettle

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+11| Greater Mimic Feat

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+12|Perfect Mimic[/table]

Mid BAB, All good saves, and no dead levels. All good things.


Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Mimics are proficient with simple weapons and light armor.

Mimic Appearance (Ex) A mimic can perfectly replicate the appearance of a creature around him. As a standard action, a mimic can attempt a Spot Check with a DC of 10, targeting a creature within his line of sight. If he succeeds, he can replicate the creatures appearance. This functions as the Disguise Self spell with a caster level equal to his mimic level, but with a permanent duration until the mimic chooses to end the ability or use it on another creature.

This seems to be the first real problem. At 1st level, you get disguise self at will and nothing else. The thing is, every single (non-npc) base class in existance has the ability to participate meaningfully in battle (or to affect the outcome of battle) at 1st level. This guy just... doesn't. Light armor, no martial weapons, no BAB, and no offensive/buffing capabilities.
I know that this is a class that thinks outside of the box and I really appreciate seeing classes like this. In certain campaigns, this guy might be relatively useful for certain tasks at 1st level. Furthermore, combat isn't strictly necessary for getting XP. You can get it from simply overcoming the challenge that a trap or creature represents.
The question is... can the ability to disguise yourself and sneak past creatures get you 1000 XP? In most campaigns, the answer is sadly no. Even though a good DM will throw you a bone and let you avoid a combat to get XP once in awhile, you would need to be in a very highly specialized campaign for such disguises to get you a full level in XP.
Even in such a campaign, your other team mates would eventually need combat to earn their precious XP and you'd be stuck wading around with your simple weapon and poor attack bonus. The good saving throws help but you still fail to contribute whenever battle comes up.
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that your class lacks class skills that could help it avoid combat more effectively (such as bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, hide, move silently, and disguise).
Consider putting in another (perhaps scaling) ability to give this guy some form of combat presence at 1st level.

Lastly, I must ask if the flat DC 10 spot check is really necessary. Although it is plenty flavorful, it is something that you can guarantee at first level (+2 Wis bonus, +4 ranks, +3 skill focus, natural 1) whenever you want it. Perhaps have it last for up to 1 hour + 1 hour/5 points by which you pass the DC or something (ruining the unlimited duration but making your skill check relevant in some fashion).


Mimic Aptitude (Ex) A mimic can copy a person's skill to the letter. If a creature makes a skill check, a mimic can attempt a Spot check as a standard action with a DC of 15. If he succeeds, he gains a Mimicry bonus to the mimicked skill equal to 1/2 the creature's skill ranks + his mimic level. This bonus lasts for one round per mimic level. A mimic can only mimic one skill this way.

Okay, still no combat presence but that has been adressed above. talking about this ability, the first thing that I'd suggest is changing the spot DC to be more dynamic (unless you want this guy copying the skill checks of titans and pit fiends at level 2). I'd recommend 10 (or 15) + 1/2 skill bonus.
The next thing that looks wierd is that you add your mimic level to the skill. It seems to me that if you are truly mimicking a creature's skill that you should be limited by the skill of the creature you mimic (if that makes any sense). Perhaps change the bonus to 1/2 the target's skill bonus. Also, considering the mimic's poor skill list, I'd add that you can make skill checks with the mimicked skill untrained.
Lastly...perhaps increase the duration of the mimic. As you can only have one at a time, making it 1 hour/level wouldn't hurt.


Evasion As the rogue class feature.

Mettle As the Hexblade class feature.

Wow. Still no offense. Very good defense, though. One thing that you may have to explain to me is how these defenses (or the 3 good saves) relate to being able to copy people. Unless your going with a "I can read their attack and roll with the blows" approach (which doesn't seem to mesh with the rest of the class), I'm at a loss.


Mimic Spell (Ex) A mimic can draw upon residual magical energy to replicate spells he sees. When a creature casts a spell, a mimic can attempt a SpellCraft check with a DC of 15 + spell level as an immediate action. If he succeeds, he can cast the spell using his Intelligence for the DC and mimic level as caster level. He must cast the spell before the end of his next turn or the spell is wasted.

At last. Four levels with no combat ability and now we get something big. Something huge, actually. This ability is a bigger deal than you seem to think. Much as Concentration checks can be easily maximized for automatic defensive casting, so too could a mimic maximize spellcraft for an automatic spell copying.
One thing to note is that this ability can potentially copy any spell at any level. If you for some reason witness a meteor swarm at 5th level, you could copy it and you wouldn't even need 19 Int like other casters would. Even if you fix that, however, you are still left with a character who doubles any spells he sees (which is a monumentally powerful ability right there, if one that needs a bit of support).
I'd put a maximum cap on the spell level of spells you could copy and put a limit on the number of spells you could copy each day (perhaps a total number of spell levels equal to your mimic level x your Int modifier [minimum 1]).


Mimic Enchantment (Ex) A mimic further perfects the art of copying, learning how to replicate spell effects. If a mimic knows a creature is under the effect of a spell (such as Bull's Strength), he can attempt a Spellcraft check with a DC of 20 + spell level. If he succeeds, he gains the benefit of the spell for a number of rounds equal to his mimic level. A mimic may only benefit from one spell at a time with this ability.

Once again, spellcraft is easy to maximize so getting the benefits isn't that hard. Here are some things to consider in regards to this ability.
1. What if the mimic is not a suitable target for a spell effect (such as animal growth)?
2. If a spell includes choices that must be made upon casting (like ruin delver's fortune), are you restricted to the same choice as the creature you mimic?
3. What happens if the effect's duration (either on the mimicked creature or in general) elapses before 1 round/mimic level passes.
4. What happens if you try to steal a spell effect that simply isn't there and how would a mimic know what spells are active on a creature's person.


Improved Mimic Aptitude (Ex) When a mimic uses his Mimic Aptitude class feature, he gains a Mimicry bonus equal to 1/2 the creature's ranks in the skill + mimic level. This overrides the bonus gained from Mimic Aptitude. Further, a mimic may gain the benefit from mimicking two skills simultaneously.

Okay. The skill bonus didn't actually increase at all, just so you know.

Oh, and here's another question about mimic aptitude and its advancements. When you have your maximum number of mimicked skills, can you mimic an additional skill by giving up an old one or do you need to wait for an aptitude to end before you even try?


Extended Mimicry (Ex) A mimic learns to have better control over his replication. The duration of the Mimic Aptitude, Mimic Spell, and Mimic Enchantment abilities improve to 1 min per mimic level.

The mimic spell ability has no duration, unless you are referring to being forced to cast the spell next round. If that is the case, than increasing it from 1 round to 10 rounds/level is quite a leap. Not necessarily bad but a bit odd.


Mimic Feat (Ex) By observing a creature, a mimic can copy it's nuances. When a creature uses an ability granted by a feat (such as Power Attack) in the mimic's line of sight, the mimic can attempt a Spot check with the DC of 15 + the creature's HD. If the check succeeds, the mimic gains the benefit of the feat for 1 minute per level, even if he does not meet the requirements. Further, the mimic can apply weapon specific feats to any weapon he is proficient with. A mimic can only

I just realized that this guy will suffer some pretty bad MAD as he needs both Int and Wis to make his abilities work. What happens if a copied feat improved the functioning of a previous feat (such as great cleave)?

Also, this ability wasn't quite finished. :smalltongue:


Improved Mimic Spell (Ex) A mimic can harness magical energy more effectively. Whenever he uses his Mimic Spell ability, he can apply up to one level of metamagic to the spell. A mimic need not have the corresponding metamagic feat to use this ability. Further, a mimic may have two spells mimicked simultaneously.

Do you need to possess the metamagic feat or can you just pick and choose anything (which may be a bit powerful).

As an extra note, the mimic spell ability didn't have a limit of simultaneously mimicked spells. Does this ability impose a limit or was it intended to make a smaller limit larger.


Mimic Learning (Ex) The mimic has honed his abilities to replicate a creature's specific training. When a creature uses a class ability (excluding spellcasting) within the mimic's line of sight, the mimic can attempt a Spot check with a DC of 25. If he succeeds, he can gain the use of the class ability, using his mimic level as the appropriate class level for 1 minute per mimic level. A mimic may only gain the use of one class ability at a time using this ability.

Probably a bad move giving this ability a flat DC. Perhaps try something like 25 or 15+target's HD, whichever is higher.
Also, does this ability copy a warlock's invocations (spell-like abilities)? How about a truenamer's utterance (supernatural ability, though why you'd want to copy it is beyond me)?


Greater Mimic Aptitude (Ex) When a mimic uses his Mimic Aptitude class ability, he gains a bonus equal to the creature's max ranks in the mimicked skill, which overrides any other Mimicry bonuses. Further, he may have up to three skills mimicked using this ability.

So... you stop adding your class level into the mix and instead gain a bonus equal to to the target's HD + 3 (half that number if a cross-class skill), regardless of how much talent the target actually has?
This ability doesn't seem to make much sense to me unless there is something that I'm missing.


Sudden Mimic (Ex) Whenever a mimic successfully saves against a spell, he may attempt a Spellcraft check with a DC of 30. If he succeeds, he may cast the spell as an immediate action, using his Intelligence for the DC and mimic level as caster level.

Once again, this ability is insanely powerful. It stops you from using your mimic spell ability but it lets you respond to a serious threat without spending your action.
In DnD, action economy is key. For that reason, this ability may be a bit overpowered.


Improved Mimic Feat (Ex) A mimic's copying grows even more versatile. The mimic can use his Mimic Feat class feature to mimic up to two feats simultaneously.

No probelm with this that I didn't have with the original mimic feat.


Greater Mimic Spell (Ex) Whenever a mimic uses his Mimic Spell class feature, he may apply up to three levels of metamagic to the spell. He need not know the metamagic feats he wishes to imitate. Further, the mimic can have up to three spells mimicked at a time.

Okay, so to answer my question from earlier, you did need to possess metamagic feats you wanted to apply (you may want to write that out in improved mimic spell).
This ability is pretty darn powerful, likely a bit unbalanced.


Mimic Innate Ability (Ex) A mimic's copy abilities border on the supernatural. Whenever a creature uses a supernatural or spell-like ability in the mimic's line of sight, the mimic can attempt a spot check with the DC equal to 30 + the creature's HD. If he succeeds, he can use the ability using his stats (HD, ability scores, etc). He can use this ability for 1 minute per level, and can only have one ability mimicked at a time.

Ok. Nothing wrong here.


Improved Evasion As the rogue's special ability.

Improved Mettle As Improved Evasion, except for Will and Fortitude saves.

Still don't know why they belong here but hooray for special defenses.

One thing that you should know is that some people are rather abhorrent to the idea of Improved Mettle. Have you ever noticed that there is no class or PrC anywhere that gets improved mettle? There may be a reason for that. As you level up, area effects dealing massive damage become insignificant next to death effects and domination effects that deliver smaller effects with a successful save (such as finger of death or phantasmal killer or, I suppose, disintegrate). The ability to never be killed by such abilities is far more useful than never taking full damage from a dragon's breath (what improved evasion does).
Then again, this thing is at level 18 so it's probably fine.


Greater Mimic Feat A mimic can have up to three feats mimicked when using Mimic Feat.

Hmm... Moving on.


Perfect Mimic The mimic has unlocked the pinnacle of copying, gaining the ability to perfectly copy an individual. The mimic can attempt a Spot check with a DC 40, targeting any creature within his line of sight. If he succeeds, the mimic instantly becomes a perfect (and improved) replica of the creature. He gains the use of any and all class features, racial, supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities the target possesses. He gains a Mimicry bonus on his stats equal to the target's ability modifiers. He gains the use of all feats the target has. Finally, he gains proficiency with all armor and weapons the target is proficient in. This ability last for 1 hour/mimic level, and can only be used once per day.

Even as a capstone ability, I'm inclined to think that this ability is far overpowered. Even usable once per day, it will last for 20 hours so using it on your party Wizard makes you a better version of that wizard. That is not good as this ability makes you strictly superior in all ways to someone else.

Perhaps consider changing the DC to 25+HD or 40, whichever is more.
What action does it take to activate this ability?
Is the daily use wasted if you fail your spot check? Might want to specify that if it is the case.


Please evaluate! I want your feedback!

Okay, time for final feedback.

As a first homebrewed class, this was a very ambitious project and one that tried thinking outside of the box. I have been in love with the concept of a mimic class for a long time but even I can't seem to get it down in writing in a way that looks good to me.
To make myself clear, this was one of the beter mimic classes that I've seen (and I've seen somewhere between 3 and 5 others). Even so, the mechanics based on skill checks seemed a bit clunky, the power curve as you level up is weird, you seem to have underestimated the power of magic a bit, and you are working with an extremely difficult class concept.
Very good work for a first homebrewed class and I look forward to seeing more of your work in the future.

And now, SLEEEP!

[Forever Curious]

-snip-

I made a few modifications to the class before I saw this post. I'll take them into consideration (i.e. change them immediately), then you can take another look. Thanks man.

[DragoonWraith]

This is probably too good for all good saves, but no class should have all bad saves (like, ever). Reflex is an obvious choice for a mimic, I'd think.

Personally, I kind of like the idea of using Disguise rather than Spot. That would make a certain degree of sense.

I agree that some kind of offensive ability would be nice for the class. Maybe a way to mimic his teammate's last action? That's a pretty common ability for Mimics in various games...

Evasion and Mettle are a little surprising - how does that fit in?

Enchantment is a school of magic relating to mind control. Enhancements are the buffs you're referring to there.

Other than that, I can't really think of anything that wouldn't... groan... be mimicking Realms.

[Realms of Chaos]

... I can't really think of anything that wouldn't... groan... be mimicking Realms.

I like what you did there. :smalltongue:

Anyhow, the class has been fixed in several ways, some of them good and some of them so-so.

3rd level is a bit late to get a good saving throw and although you can mimic spells earlier, you are still pretty defenseless until then.

One concept to consider would be making yourself into an accurate copy of a creature rather than a frankenstein-esque combination of one creature's feats, another creature's skills, a third creatures supernatural powers, etc.

Here's an example ability:

Aspect of Mimic (Su): Starting at 1st level, you can immitate another creature simply by observing thier nature. As a standard action, make a DC 30 spot check against a target within your line of sight. For each previous consecutive round in which you undertook no action other than observing the intended target, the DC is reduced by -5 (minimum DC 0).
If you succeed, you gain a +1 Insight bonus to whatever saving throw the target has the highest modifier in (if two or more saves are tied, you choose which). Furthermore, you gain a +1 Insight bonus to whatever skill check the target has the highest modifier in (if two or more skills are tied, you choose which). These bonuses increase by +1 at 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards.
Lastly, you are disguised as the creature, as if through a Disguise Self spell. This change is no mere illusion, however, and does not permit a saving throw to disbelieve.
You may only maintain one aspect of mimic at a given time, plus one additional aspect per 4 mimic levels. Insight bonuses gained from multiple aspects don't stack and you may only display one disguise granted by an aspect at a given time. Switching between disguises is a full-round action. An aspect of disguise lasts for 10 minutes, plus 10 minutes per 2 points by which your check exceeded the DC.
You may use this ability twice per day per mimic level.

This version puts limits on times per day, makes the ability take longer to pull off at lower levels, and shortens the duration.
On the other hand, it grants you competence with skills and saving throws (enough to effectively have good saves by level 20) and gives you a bit more power and flexibility with your disguises.
Future abilities could simply let you copy more aspects of creatures when you use an aspect of mimic (such as active spells, feats, supernatural abilities, etc.) rather than requiring you to see them in action.
It still doesn't grant you any special ability to affect combat but you can always do what the rogue class did and grant both a combat and a noncombat ability. A sample combat ability below.

Mirror Combat (Su): Starting at 1st level, you are adept at picking up a target's defensive and offensive patterns in the midst of combat and using them yourself.
Whenever you make an attack roll against a target, you may make a Spot check against the target's AC as an immediate action. If you succeed, you gain that creature's AC for 1 round. You may increase your AC by up to +1 per mimic level in this way.
Whenever an attack is made against you, you may make an opposed spot check against the target's attack roll as an immediate action. If you succeed, you use that creature's melee and ranged attack bonuses for 1 round. You may increase your attack bonuses by up to +1 per mimic level in this way.

this combat ability has both offensive and defensive purposes and it let's the mimic shine when he has no remaining aspects of mimic (don't know where I got that name, by the way...) for the day.

Just a couple of ideas that I float. They may not be the best in the world but there you go.

[Forever Curious]

@DragoonWraith: I chose Spot and Spellcraft as opposed to Disguise mainly because there are a lot of Charisma-based classes. In retrospect, some of the more broken classes (See also: Druid) are Wisdom-based...so yeah :smallfrown: I still like the idea of Spot fluff-wise over Disguise, so I'll keep that as is.

@Realms: Mirror Combat is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was trying to puzzle out myself. I'm assuming it's fair game to use, but it never hurts to ask. I also like Aspect of the Mimic...but would refrain from adding it mainly because I'm stubborn and like the abilities I came up with. :smalltongue: But Mirror Combat is amazing and will be added with your permission.

Did you have any thoughts concerning the abilities I added since your last review (Mimic Action, etc.)?

[Zexion]

This is my first homebrew class ever! Forgive my ignorance...

Hardly. This is actually a rather well-made class. Some of the mechanics need to be touched up, but that's normal.

[Forever Curious]

Hardly. This is actually a rather well-made class. Some of the mechanics need to be touched up, but that's normal.

Why thank you, my good man.

[Zexion]

I mean, my first class needed (and still needs) some touching up, to clean up the ability mechanics, iron out the Save distributions, and decide on HD. I had all of the complex ability formulas down pat, but I forgot to start with the basics. Here, you have very complex abilities, plus a well-thought out class design.

[Forever Curious]

I mean, my first class needed (and still needs) some touching up, to clean up the ability mechanics, iron out the Save distributions, and decide on HD.

Link me to it and I'll toss in my thoughts, if you're interested. Also, any thoughts concerning the recent update to the class?

[Zexion]

I believe that it balances it a lot more. Mimic Aptitude shouldn't be able to be used to mimic a Knowledge skill.
My class is right here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144942).
It's a demigod Percy Jackson-style thing.

[Forever Curious]

I believe that it balances it a lot more. Mimic Aptitude shouldn't be able to be used to mimic a Knowledge skill.
My class is right here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144942).
It's a demigod Percy Jackson-style thing.

Oh yes, I believe I gave this a quick glance a while back. Time for a proper read through.

[Realms of Chaos]

Of course you can use mirror combat and I understand not using aspect of mimic. This is your brainchild. Don't let me or anybody else take that away from you. :smallwink:

Let's look through this one more time...

It seems odd that aptitude focus is actually better than improved aptitude focus in some cases (such as when a creature has no ranks in a skill).

I still don't understand why some abilities that supposedly let you imitate the capabilities of others factor your mimic level into the bonus? What is your rationale behind this?

Mimic action seems a bit odd and unrelated with the rest of this class. All that I can think of in this vein is the idea of perfectly mirroring your opponent's action. If that is the case, were you by chance going for something like this?

Mimic Action (Ex) As a standard action, a mimic can make a Spot check with a DC of 35 against a creature with which the mimic possesses a line of sight. Until the start of the mimic's next round, whenever the selected creature takes a swift action, immediate action, move action, standard action, or full-round action, you are entitled to an action of the same type immediately afterwards.

I still think that Perfect Mimic is a bit dangerous. It isn't worth much but here is what I would suggest.
1. You can use it at will instead of 1/day.
2. It takes a full-round action to activate.
3. It only lasts 1d4+1 rounds
4. You can only have one active at a time.
In this way, the ability becomes more versatile but forces you to spend your actions once in awhile and may need renewal in the middle of combat.

[Forever Curious]

1)Of course you can use mirror combat and I understand not using aspect of mimic. This is your brainchild. Don't let me or anybody else take that away from you. :smallwink:

Let's look through this one more time...

2) It seems odd that aptitude focus is actually better than improved aptitude focus in some cases (such as when a creature has no ranks in a skill).

3) I still don't understand why some abilities that supposedly let you imitate the capabilities of others factor your mimic level into the bonus? What is your rationale behind this?

4) Mimic action seems a bit odd and unrelated with the rest of this class. All that I can think of in this vein is the idea of perfectly mirroring your opponent's action. If that is the case, were you by chance going for something like this?

Mimic Action (Ex) As a standard action, a mimic can make a Spot check with a DC of 35 against a creature with which the mimic possesses a line of sight. Until the start of the mimic's next round, whenever the selected creature takes a swift action, immediate action, move action, standard action, or full-round action, you are entitled to an action of the same type immediately afterwards.

5) I still think that Perfect Mimic is a bit dangerous. It isn't worth much but here is what I would suggest.
1. You can use it at will instead of 1/day.
2. It takes a full-round action to activate.
3. It only lasts 1d4+1 rounds
4. You can only have one active at a time.
In this way, the ability becomes more versatile but forces you to spend your actions once in awhile and may need renewal in the middle of combat.

*Numbered or organization

1) Thank you sir. Added to class.

2) I would assume that, in general, you would want to replicate an opponent with more skill ranks over hit die in certain instances. Of course, now that I think about it, there's no way for a mimic to deduce this...

3) Just an easy way I can add power to an ability. Also, it helps hint at the "a better you than you are" subtheme of the class...but that's a stretch :smallfrown:

4) I originally had something like this, but could easily see this becoming Celerity-level broken, so I scaled back. If this is in fact a balanced approach, I would be more than happy implementing it.

5) At will works. Full round activation makes sense. How about number of rounds equal to Int modifier (at the time of activation)? And I had this in mind when i wrote the ability. Forgot to type it...:smallredface:

[Realms of Chaos]

3) Seeing as you're adding your target's ability on top of your own modifiers and ranks, the "better than you" vibe is performed rather well without any needed effort. When you get greater mimic aptitude, it is likely that you'll be doing better than most creatures either way. :smalltongue:

4) It's not quite broken but it is powerful... like many 18th level abilities. :smallwink:
It lets you...
1. move and then (possibly) get a full round of actions before your next turn.
2. Get an extra swift/immediate action (useful for gestalt spellcasters but not for much else).
3. make a move action ant then get a full-round action before your next round (possibly).
As the actions come after the target takes its actions, it never gets to the level of celerity (which can let you cast teleport as an immediate action in respond to an enemy drawing a weapon or moving towards you).

5) Yep. Int modifier rounds works. This is why I'm here, to remind you to type out that stuff that you were planning to but forgot about. :smallcool:

[Forever Curious]

Bumping for relevancy.